DUST Search - Why don't more players strive for PC?

Thor Odinson42 wrote:

Bradric Banewolf wrote:

Nice work Mr. Odinson42! I've probably liked every post on this thread. The testimonies of the community here are true. Lag is that bad. For some more than others. The point of PC escapes most, and for myself personally I see no real reward. Owning districts means nothing if they do nothing for the corp but draw unwanted attention.

There needs to be more incentive! Enough to make the whole community want to take a chance. The lag issue needs to be fixed! No one wants to spend that much isk only to be shot by someone they can't see?! I've played with frame rates so bad that we've left the match, mid fight, and returned to rid ourselves of lag. Fighting the enemy one minute, and fighting a wall the next is not peak performance.

The community as a whole isn't ready and willing to sign up for suicide missions. So many great ideas have flooded the forums with explosive ideas. I find it an absolute absurdity that none of this has been implemented... by now omg!

Kudos to you sir, and everyone who has put the effort forth to make the experience better for everyone. Not just themselves.

There is no reward right now because the mechanics enable small groups to dominate the landscape. Bring back the rewards and you ensure that a few dozen players are in every battle, every night.

It's funny how quickly people forget. This issue isn't being addressed in these upcoming changes.

1. Crappy pub payouts keeps the masses poor
2. Poor logistical support for team deploy forces one or two people to no life or an orgaization falls apart.
3. No low risk form of team deploy to lower the learning curve.
4. No ability to force corporations to reach for team C and D. It's the best 16 v the best 16 a vast majority of the time.

Without addressing those things you can add all the bells and whistles you want, but nothing will change.

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Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5125	Posted - 2014.12.24 21:52:00 - [61] - Quote MINA, that's how World of Warcraft does it. Guilds just spawn additional money based on player participation. I don't think that's a very New Eden design. Taxation is a long-held concept, and it does speak to corporation choice as well. Tax rate is a very visible aspect of a corp, and players can choose corps with lower tax rates. However, higher tax rates may mean better corp services and capabilities as well. In actuality, while noting ISK payout in general needs to be higher, to compensate, I think NPC corps should have a base tax (like they do in EVE). It would encourage people who are frugal to potentially join corps with a lower tax rate than the NPC corp tax. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1798	Posted - 2014.12.24 21:56:00 - [62] - Quote You may think its not very 'new eden' but in my opinion what works for a lot of 'new eden' in many ways completely failed in dust. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5125	Posted - 2014.12.24 21:58:00 - [63] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: You may think its not very 'new eden' but in my opinion what works for a lot of 'new eden' in many ways completely failed in dust. That is true in many cases, but I disagree that it holds true here. And while mechanics should be evaluated based on the game (EVE mechanics do not work in DUST by default), they should still be designed with a New Eden mentality. Spawning money from nowhere is specifically an idea that should almost never happen. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1799	Posted - 2014.12.24 22:12:00 - [64] - Quote ^so moon mining, incursions, pirate npc bounties, missions (eve & dust side) and the old pc isk fountains should never have happened? Because those are all activities that either generated isk for nothing or generated isk for simply playing the game. Positive game experiences tend to go 'you're winning, so as a reward for winning we're going to let you win harder!'. I'm just spitballing here, there should probably be a cap on the amount of isk that a corporation can generate off the missions it's players complete, tax would still play a role then but tax rates could functionally survive being much lower and players would still feel great as would corps for picking up active players. I see it as win win, with considerably less feelings of exploitation. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2614	Posted - 2014.12.24 22:13:00 - [65] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Aside from the generic BS, what are the real reasons some veteran players just act as though it isn't there as an option? Because they'd rather try hard in pubs against recent academy grads, and that's also where they legitimize whining about vehicles to get them nerfed. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 16262	Posted - 2014.12.24 22:25:00 - [66] - Quote Never truly been interested in it. I'd only mainly be able to play in the AU/NZ timezones and if I am not mistake there is not a huge community for players in those zones especially considering that most owned districts are in the US and EU time zones and **** that I'm not taking time off work for a game. Moreover as I see it the corps who own PC districts have nothing to offer me. They don't work for the Amarr, they don't care about lore or RP, and I hate their corp names...... *"He spoke, and we made it so all worlds were one, all peoples were one, all faiths, creeds, and nationalities were one.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1398	Posted - 2014.12.24 22:34:00 - [67] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Glitch116 wrote: Takes too much time and effort for little to no gain have to put up with people bs everyone plays by the meta instead playing for fun its cookie cutter fits everywhere LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG! and PC is really just too much pain in the ass This. PC just isn't fun. Yes, this. Why do it? So that later I can go with a squad and stomp the living **** out of people in pubs for fun? That is what I see happening and it makes it kind of hard to want to be a part of that. Because, that's why.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5127	Posted - 2014.12.24 22:48:00 - [68] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Moreover as I see it the corps who own PC districts have nothing to offer me. They don't work for the Amarr, they don't care about lore or RP, and I hate their corp names...... I think it's key that both FacWar and PC offer their own endgame level experiences, so that people who want to fight for their corporation can, and those who want to fight for their faction also can. :) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Jathniel G I A N T 1354	Posted - 2014.12.24 22:52:00 - [69] - Quote I just dont get invited anymore. :( I use to PC all the time with all the old EoN corps. We had a lot of fun. I would occasionally join some squads to be friendly with folks and all seems well, but no one wants me to play with them, I guess. I think I'm a half decent pubber, and I always did very well in PC. Consistently putting out 2.5 to 3.5 k/ds. I wouldn't compare myself to Michael Jordan, Lebron James, or Kobe Bryant; but I'd make a decent Rajon Rondo, Kevin Durant, or Tim Duncan. (Comparing PC to basketball) I'd say I'm a good player. I know the ins and outs. This old Giant would love to PC on the regular. But no one invites. I would assume it's like that for other old vets too. I see a lot of older guys just drifting around. They don't wan to leave corp, but wouldn't mind hopping inand ringing every now and then. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Kierkegaard Soren THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 605	Posted - 2014.12.24 22:52:00 - [70] - Quote I've tried it a few times and frankly I'm not competitive (read: good) enough. Simple at that I guess. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.

Lloyd Orfay Kinsho Swords Caldari State 301	Posted - 2014.12.25 00:25:00 - [71] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Aside from the generic BS, what are the real reasons some veteran players just act as though it isn't there as an option? >People aren't rewarded enough ISK for proto. >The shitload of issues in the game needing to be resolved is being entirely ignored, people won't want to play until it isn't. >Scout and heavy spam, super assault bricktanking.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 2179	Posted - 2014.12.25 00:28:00 - [72] - Quote I think what would make it more motivating would be be an automated payout system from the corp wallet, like a standing order, to merc's that played in a PC match. Individual payout to one merc at a time is a pita. We need to look again at the qol improvements that could be made to remove the stress of PC to those that organise it. CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
Michael Arck 6087	Posted - 2014.12.25 03:45:00 - [73] - Quote Some great responses in here and some good ideas coming forth. Keep it coming people. I would love to see PC become more attractive and not such a risky investment. Get some more pubbers involved instead of the same guys with different corp names or the same guy with the same corp names. It does need a shake up a bit. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5559	Posted - 2014.12.25 03:53:00 - [74] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Some great responses in here and some good ideas coming forth. Keep it coming people. I would love to see PC become more attractive and not such a risky investment. Get some more pubbers involved instead of the same guys with different corp names or the same guy with the same corp names. It does need a shake up a bit. There's a good thread going in the feedback section. Under 2015 roadmap. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 583	Posted - 2014.12.25 04:03:00 - [75] - Quote Moochie Cricket wrote: Lag/framerate issues. If PC ran as smooth as pubs it would be so much more enjoyable. Exactly! "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 583	Posted - 2014.12.25 04:26:00 - [76] - Quote Nice work Mr. Odinson42! I've probably liked every post on this thread. The testimonies of the community here are true. Lag is that bad. For some more than others. The point of PC escapes most, and for myself personally I see no real reward. Owning districts means nothing if they do nothing for the corp but draw unwanted attention. There needs to be more incentive! Enough to make the whole community want to take a chance. The lag issue needs to be fixed! No one wants to spend that much isk only to be shot by someone they can't see?! I've played with frame rates so bad that we've left the match, mid fight, and returned to rid ourselves of lag. Fighting the enemy one minute, and fighting a wall the next is not peak performance. The community as a whole isn't ready and willing to sign up for suicide missions. So many great ideas have flooded the forums with explosive ideas. I find it an absolute absurdity that none of this has been implemented... by now omg! Kudos to you sir, and everyone who has put the effort forth to make the experience better for everyone. Not just themselves. "Anybody order chaos?"
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5560	Posted - 2014.12.25 04:37:00 - [77] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Nice work Mr. Odinson42! I've probably liked every post on this thread. The testimonies of the community here are true. Lag is that bad. For some more than others. The point of PC escapes most, and for myself personally I see no real reward. Owning districts means nothing if they do nothing for the corp but draw unwanted attention. There needs to be more incentive! Enough to make the whole community want to take a chance. The lag issue needs to be fixed! No one wants to spend that much isk only to be shot by someone they can't see?! I've played with frame rates so bad that we've left the match, mid fight, and returned to rid ourselves of lag. Fighting the enemy one minute, and fighting a wall the next is not peak performance. The community as a whole isn't ready and willing to sign up for suicide missions. So many great ideas have flooded the forums with explosive ideas. I find it an absolute absurdity that none of this has been implemented... by now omg! Kudos to you sir, and everyone who has put the effort forth to make the experience better for everyone. Not just themselves. There is no reward right now because the mechanics enable small groups to dominate the landscape. Bring back the rewards and you ensure that a few dozen players are in every battle, every night. It's funny how quickly people forget. This issue isn't being addressed in these upcoming changes. 1. Crappy pub payouts keeps the masses poor 2. Poor logistical support for team deploy forces one or two people to no life or an orgaization falls apart. 3. No low risk form of team deploy to lower the learning curve. 4. No ability to force corporations to reach for team C and D. It's the best 16 v the best 16 a vast majority of the time. Without addressing those things you can add all the bells and whistles you want, but nothing will change. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
CUSE WarLord KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 295	Posted - 2014.12.25 04:41:00 - [78] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: With it not being very rewarding in its current state is why corporations can get in and try it out. If it was rewarding no one would let you in, and if by shear luck you got into pc if it was rewarding a bigger corp would knock you out. Right now all you need is isk for a clone back and a PC team and someone will give you a district for free. At the end of the day you are just investing monopoly money right now it fun and a different game mode. yeah i think a lot of these people are confused about how PC works right. their is no huge barrier with isk as we will give any corp who wants to play PC a free district. we even set up the last district policy where no one is allowed to take a small corps last district. isk does not hold anyone back from playing PC right now its only fear of the unknown. for me its the most rewarding playing with 16 people that will give it their all and help you push the letter for the win. pub match make me not want to play dust with 10 people off in the hills snipeing watching 6 people try to push the letters by themselves. there is a huge problem in dust pub match where there is no incentive for people to try to help the team win.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5560	Posted - 2014.12.25 04:41:00 - [79] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Moochie Cricket wrote: Lag/framerate issues. If PC ran as smooth as pubs it would be so much more enjoyable. Exactly! I haven't been in as many PCs as I used to be, but performance has been great. I don't think lag is an issue. Many claim it's better than pubs. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 670	Posted - 2014.12.25 04:47:00 - [80] - Quote Because PC is just an epeen competition for console kiddies. It is not a serious method of gaining meaningful property for EVE resources. It is not what was intended. It is now a leftover from an end of lined game. Boycott Black Thursday!

Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 858	Posted - 2014.12.25 05:09:00 - [81] - Quote i agreed with low frame rate and timers to be a problem. The rest are just a bunch of excuses lol. One guy said he could make the same amount of isk like in pc with just a few pub games. I beg to differ. Who doesnt wanna fight the best? it would be interesting to see a new slayer that drops 20 kills in pc. AE.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5561	Posted - 2014.12.25 05:37:00 - [82] - Quote Kalante Schiffer wrote: i agreed with low frame rate and timers to be a problem. The rest are just a bunch of excuses lol. One guy said he could make the same amount of isk like in pc with just a few pub games. I beg to differ. Who doesnt wanna fight the best? it would be interesting to see a new slayer that drops 20 kills in pc. I think there are plenty of people out there. But to be honest I think getting people to squad up is step 1. Low payouts ensure that only the best are running decent gear.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 584	Posted - 2014.12.25 05:47:00 - [83] - Quote For me, especially against south American players, the lag has gotten worse not better I'm afraid?! It's not an issue for some so they assume it's non existent, but it's actually the opposite. Enemy players damage registering twice the normal output turning heavies into scouts. Running toward an objective only to discover yourself facing a wall as your shot in the back by the enemy an is tan later. Choppy frame rates make it seem like you're blinking excessively while playing. Getting kills is more luck then skill when these things are going on. I didn't believe it until I saw it for myself. I don't often see this in the pubs. In fact it's extremely rare nowadays, but in PC it's almost expected now. If PC frame rate was like the pubs for me I would atleast be getting a fair shake. "Anybody order chaos?"
The Eristic Dust 90210 663	Posted - 2014.12.25 06:36:00 - [84] - Quote The last one I played was a slideshow vs NS on Gallente Lag Facility in which my team demanded that I run disgusting fotm fittings (complex plated Gal Scout, in particular) because "your other fittings (proto Amarr Assault + Viziams and dampened/KC'd scouts + proto SG/PlC) won't be competitive enough". No fun allowed. Didn't matter in the end, because nothing is competitive at .01 frames per second. Have had no further desire to participate until it becomes more playable. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 584	Posted - 2014.12.25 06:59:00 - [85] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: With it not being very rewarding in its current state is why corporations can get in and try it out. If it was rewarding no one would let you in, and if by shear luck you got into pc if it was rewarding a bigger corp would knock you out. Right now all you need is isk for a clone back and a PC team and someone will give you a district for free. At the end of the day you are just investing monopoly money right now it fun and a different game mode. You've actually stated another huge problem with PC. "Anybody order chaos?"
da GAND Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 1077	Posted - 2014.12.25 08:11:00 - [86] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Aside from the generic BS, what are the real reasons some veteran players just act as though it isn't there as an option? Cuz dealt with it enough from the beginning and my opinion has pretty much stayed the same since then which is that PC is just a laggy expensive version of pub skirmish. Basically it's no different from pubs except for the people you're facing on the other team. And Lag at least was the worst part of my experience with PC in the beginning and for quite awhile after that. There's basically no point to me for anyone to spend that much isk for a battle that was hardly any different from pubs. I suppose to be clear I ( cant speak for other vets ) have been through PC battles enough to not want to not give a damn about em anymore. Not like anyone would want me to be on their side unless they needed people that badly and didn't give a damn. Had plenty of fun even though I was probably one of the worst players in 187 and High Damage history Should Legion be on the ps4?
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1400	Posted - 2014.12.25 08:48:00 - [87] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Bradric Banewolf wrote: Nice work Mr. Odinson42! I've probably liked every post on this thread. The testimonies of the community here are true. Lag is that bad. For some more than others. The point of PC escapes most, and for myself personally I see no real reward. Owning districts means nothing if they do nothing for the corp but draw unwanted attention. There needs to be more incentive! Enough to make the whole community want to take a chance. The lag issue needs to be fixed! No one wants to spend that much isk only to be shot by someone they can't see?! I've played with frame rates so bad that we've left the match, mid fight, and returned to rid ourselves of lag. Fighting the enemy one minute, and fighting a wall the next is not peak performance. The community as a whole isn't ready and willing to sign up for suicide missions. So many great ideas have flooded the forums with explosive ideas. I find it an absolute absurdity that none of this has been implemented... by now omg! Kudos to you sir, and everyone who has put the effort forth to make the experience better for everyone. Not just themselves. There is no reward right now because the mechanics enable small groups to dominate the landscape. Bring back the rewards and you ensure that a few dozen players are in every battle, every night. It's funny how quickly people forget. This issue isn't being addressed in these upcoming changes. 1. Crappy pub payouts keeps the masses poor 2. Poor logistical support for team deploy forces one or two people to no life or an orgaization falls apart. 3. No low risk form of team deploy to lower the learning curve. 4. No ability to force corporations to reach for team C and D. It's the best 16 v the best 16 a vast majority of the time. Without addressing those things you can add all the bells and whistles you want, but nothing will change. First they should bring back corp. battles. We risk only as much ISK as we want and it is quicker and easier to do. Second, players should be tied to one district, possibly two or three, but they can't fight for any district, anywhere, anytime. If you defend a district you must be "stationed" there and on the roster for that district. Thus is to stop the same 16 guys from playing every match. A corp can hold many districts but they have to hold them with many players, not a few good ones. Third, there should be a simple ranking of districts, 1 to whatever, possibly, but not necessarily, with greater rewards. This means you know who is on the top and everyone will have incentive to fight each other, but it will also allow more competitive matches. Right now a top A team has as much incentive to attack number 68 as number 1. It would be better if everyone was gunning for the team right above them. 68 could shoot at a chance to be 67 and 2 for a chance to be 1. Because, that's why.
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1448	Posted - 2014.12.25 08:55:00 - [88] - Quote the last PC i rang they wouldn't make room my my gunner.. we were' stacking +100% ROF to particle cannon before they nerfed the ROF and splash.. it was basically a 20mm vulcan.. the adult men whining at each other post match was typical.. before leaving their finger pointing session, i pointed out that replacing my gunner with a random viper pilot was a huge mistake on their part.. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
shaman oga Dead Man's Game 3513	Posted - 2014.12.25 09:19:00 - [89] - Quote Kalante Schiffer wrote: i agreed with low frame rate and timers to be a problem. The rest are just a bunch of excuses lol. One guy said he could make the same amount of isk like in pc with just a few pub games. I beg to differ. Who doesnt wanna fight the best? it would be interesting to see a new slayer that drops 20 kills in pc. I don't get this PC elitism, i'm certainly not a slayer, but i find PC in certain sense easier than pubs. Let me explain: Pros: you already know the map, you start with a strategy (generally defend/attack a point or two), you know your team is there to win. Cons: generally the enemies are more aggressive and use strategies, payout or no payout. In pub: Pros: granted payout, win or lose is not a great problem (if you're not a stat padder). Cons: you don't know the map, you can come up with a strategy or not, you will never know what blueberries are going to do and you may not know what greenberries are going to do. I still see 6 man squads running full proto in pubs, i don't get how a 6 man squad in full proto against another similar squad is easier to go against in pub, but harder to go against in PC. The only role which is more difficult in PC is the squad commander, "you go there, you there, move from here to there" that stuff. Situational awareness also known as passive scan.
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Back and Forth 6657	Posted - 2014.12.25 09:24:00 - [90] - Quote Everyone is so concerned about ISK and payouts, it's just monopoly money. I don't play PC because i want payouts i really don't care. I play it because it's different and fun. CBM [Event]Dust Hunger Games PC, ISK,EVE, Corp Services



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