DUST Search - CCP Rattati, possible issue with triple stacking FW booster

Jadek Menaheim wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Jadek Menaheim wrote:

Update: Alright, we've established this isn't particularly pay to win, but increasing ISK returns through booster use should cause concern for teams that coordinate opposing FW deploys in order to boost ISK via ending matches fast with suicide cloning in starter suits. Unlike PC there is no initial price investment to start a match (i.e. clone packs). ISK boosting cannot currently be achieved due to LP items previously being unable to be sold. Now with NPC vendor and triple faction booster stacking abilities, players may be able to coordinate large farming efforts to generate large amounts of ISK with relative ease.

At the same time why would you farm LP with this method just to sell it to buy something with ISK? Granted the LP store has many holes in it in terms of what you can buy, but its also arguable that the Items you buy with LP are better than the items you buy with ISK. So...sure you can farm LP, then sell it for half its value to buy the ISK version of the thing you just sold? I think in this case the Vendor isn't the issue, but more so the concern about gaining large amounts of LP very quickly.

Going by the current math, players with high FW levels are going to earn a minimum 600k every match after they sell their goods--this applies to all players on both teams as LP payouts don't scale with player contribution. If a corp wanted to gain ISK for whatever purpose they could stick 32 players in a match and gain about 20 million ISK for the corp each match. This ability to create ISK out of thin air so quickly really devalues it and the impact of resource scarcity.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4363	Posted - 2014.11.03 12:43:00 - [31] - Quote Make a twam queue side by side with the regular one but with no overlap between the two. That way you can have team vs. Team without falling into team vs randoms. And I misread rattati's post. Derp. If you do that and put team rewards higher than solo pubstar rewards more people will team deploy. Making team rewards > solo rewards should be a thing. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3008	Posted - 2014.11.03 12:49:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The only way to have team deploy is to have an either or system Create 16 man squad (can only exist in FW) Join FW queue, q-sync if you want to try and fight another specific 16 man team If no other 16 man squad is queuing, then wait forever Is that something someone is interested in? Give us the tools, we will figure the rest out...! EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
Haerr Clone Manque 1766	Posted - 2014.11.03 13:06:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The only way to have team deploy is to have an either or system Create 16 man squad (can only exist in FW) Join FW queue, q-sync if you want to try and fight another specific 16 man team If no other 16 man squad is queuing, then wait forever Is that something someone is interested in? Yes. +1
13ear 277	Posted - 2014.11.03 13:42:00 - [34] - Quote Meee One wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: A common definition of Pay-to-Win is "items of greater quality can only be bought for real money". This scenario does not violate that principle. On the ISK generation, I believe that the community has asked for a way to make ISK losses in FW more bearable, and I think with the fact that you need to purchase the LP items first, combined with a lower than market price resell value, that this will only offset losses for the most part. >AUR is bought with money >greater quality being 15% increase to sales >seeing as there is no ISK version it equals 0% You yourself,with your own definition of P2W have just stated that this new mechanic is P2W. That's literally the dumbest thing you've ever posted, which is saying a lot. It's not P2W due to the fact that the Market Agent isn't an in game item, those who purchase one don't gain an advantage over those who don't. It simply increases the ISK returns when selling their in game assets. How could you possibly think players paying real money to increase the amount of ISK they have in game is P2W? You can't possibly be that stupid. One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings - Diogenes Winner of EU Squad Cup
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3014	Posted - 2014.11.03 14:14:00 - [35] - Quote Did someone consider that the LP and SP boosters cant cost as much when you can have 3 active, as when you could only have 1? :D CCP gon' nerf dat booster cost. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3692	Posted - 2014.11.03 17:24:00 - [36] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Did someone consider that the LP and SP boosters cant cost as much when you can have 3 active, as when you could only have 1? :D CCP gon' nerf dat booster cost. I have doubts that this is going to happen, I could be wrong but AFAIK "ability to use more of something" is not equal to "reduction in the value of something" if the boosters are still doing the same work, but now the option to use more than one is present, that is not a case for the cost of the booster to be lowered while the effect remains identical. The ability to stack is already a buff to booster use, it does not however imply or require another buff to boosters (price reduction) be stacked on top of it. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5148	Posted - 2014.11.03 17:29:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The only way to have team deploy is to have an either or system Create 16 man squad (can only exist in FW) Join FW queue, q-sync if you want to try and fight another specific 16 man team If no other 16 man squad is queuing, then wait forever Is that something someone is interested in? I'd donate both my small toes to research if you make it happen. If you make a team building UI so that squad leaders and FCs can throw together a team without constantly asking how many in each squad, who do you have, etc, I'll throw in a big toe. It would make it much easier to manage multiple battles in PC as well. Hell you could come out of a PC battle and just take your team straight into FW and vice versa. OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH how much I don't want to ever have to deal with dumbass blueberries again! I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5148	Posted - 2014.11.03 17:33:00 - [38] - Quote 13ear wrote: Meee One wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: A common definition of Pay-to-Win is "items of greater quality can only be bought for real money". This scenario does not violate that principle. On the ISK generation, I believe that the community has asked for a way to make ISK losses in FW more bearable, and I think with the fact that you need to purchase the LP items first, combined with a lower than market price resell value, that this will only offset losses for the most part. >AUR is bought with money >greater quality being 15% increase to sales >seeing as there is no ISK version it equals 0% You yourself,with your own definition of P2W have just stated that this new mechanic is P2W. That's literally the dumbest thing you've ever posted, which is saying a lot. It's not P2W due to the fact that the Market Agent isn't an in game item, those who purchase one don't gain an advantage over those who don't. It simply increases the ISK returns when selling their in game assets. How could you think that players paying real money to increase the amount of ISK they have in game is P2W? You can't possibly be that stupid. Edit: After reading a number of your threads, I realize now that you are indeed that stupid. They have apparently stopped teaching economics in schools. These youngsters think that a company would make a free to play game without microtransactions and expect them to succeed. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2267	Posted - 2014.11.03 17:37:00 - [39] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: 13ear wrote: Meee One wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: A common definition of Pay-to-Win is "items of greater quality can only be bought for real money". This scenario does not violate that principle. On the ISK generation, I believe that the community has asked for a way to make ISK losses in FW more bearable, and I think with the fact that you need to purchase the LP items first, combined with a lower than market price resell value, that this will only offset losses for the most part. >AUR is bought with money >greater quality being 15% increase to sales >seeing as there is no ISK version it equals 0% You yourself,with your own definition of P2W have just stated that this new mechanic is P2W. That's literally the dumbest thing you've ever posted, which is saying a lot. It's not P2W due to the fact that the Market Agent isn't an in game item, those who purchase one don't gain an advantage over those who don't. It simply increases the ISK returns when selling their in game assets. How could you think that players paying real money to increase the amount of ISK they have in game is P2W? You can't possibly be that stupid. Edit: After reading a number of your threads, I realize now that you are indeed that stupid. They have apparently stopped teaching economics in schools. These youngsters think that a company would make a free to play game without microtransactions and expect them to succeed. It's not even that guys, its just people feeling overly entitled. If people can't accept what CCP proposes than that is their problem. I for one thing their business model is quite tame for a F2P game. There are a lot of blood sucking demon devs out there....... "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4377	Posted - 2014.11.03 17:38:00 - [40] - Quote When CCP requires you to pay 20.00 per month to earn ISK or else be stuck forever in starter suits DUST becomes pay to win. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1244	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:15:00 - [41] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Fantastic if I can't earn my FW content and prove I'm a loyalist then ** it I'm just going to buy it. - Mantra of post 1.9 FW kiddies Boosters for FW are ok because it allows early access,ISK returns,and the most important thing is it's temporary. Meaning you have to keep getting boosters to keep the effect. This is how the agent is broken it's permanent**. Everything permanent that CCP has offered so far has been low level,but this would be high level. But,if the agent worked like boosters... That wouldn't be as broken. It's the perminance that bothers me. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3380	Posted - 2014.11.03 18:19:00 - [42] - Quote Meee One wrote: True Adamance wrote: Fantastic if I can't earn my FW content and prove I'm a loyalist then ** it I'm just going to buy it. - Mantra of post 1.9 FW kiddies Boosters for FW are ok because it allows early access,ISK returns,and the most important thing is it's temporary. Meaning you have to keep getting boosters to keep the effect. This is how the agent is broken it's permanent**. Everything permanent that CCP has offered so far has been low level,but this would be high level. But,if the agent worked like boosters... That wouldn't be as broken. It's the perminance that bothers me. To be fair BPOs are also permanent and prevent ISK loss, and thus ISK gains go up. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4396	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:18:00 - [43] - Quote And I can use BPOs to run fits for free forever. Does that make them pay to win? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5152	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:32:00 - [44] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: And I can use BPOs to run fits for free forever. Does that make them pay to win? In the minds of dumb people, yes I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4402	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:48:00 - [45] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: And I can use BPOs to run fits for free forever. Does that make them pay to win? In the minds of dumb people, yes Thor, be nice and let people prove that they're stupid WITHOUT help. Should only take minimal baiting and a smattering of logic. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3381	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:51:00 - [46] - Quote One could even argue that a BPO Suits are more valuable than the 15% Market Agent, since every time you die in a BPO suit you're effectively making the amount you would have lost had you purchased that item with ISK. That being said, a BPO offers a 100% return on potential losses that the BPO avoids, and if we assume you die 5-10 times a math in a BPO suit, the savings add up quickly. Market Agent however is only an additional 15% on basically salvage, since that's the only stuff you're going to want to sell. So in a given pub you're typically going to pick up 0-3 pieces of salvage, and get an additional 15% return on their value...opposed to a 100% return on every death in a BPO suit. The amount extra you make per match with that Agent from selling salvage is so inconsequentially small that it hardly constitutes "ERMERGERD P2W!". Faction Warfare is marginally more valuable due to a higher drop rate of salvage, but again, it's still probably less than what you save with a BPO. I can really only see significant gains with an Agent in PC, where you're getting substantial amounts of salvage, and typically it's top tiered so its value is rather high. I'd actually tell someone who is newer to not even bother with the Agent and instead purchase a BPO suit because it's going to make them more money in the long run. The agent is probably more worth it if you're in PC a lot and expect to pick up a ton of salvage. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:05:00 - [47] - Quote Update: Alright, we've established this isn't particularly pay to win, but increasing ISK returns through booster use should cause concern for teams that coordinate opposing FW deploys in order to boost ISK via ending matches fast with suicide cloning in starter suits. Unlike PC there is no initial price investment to start a match (i.e. clone packs). ISK boosting cannot currently be achieved due to LP items previously being unable to be sold. Now with NPC vendor and triple faction booster stacking abilities, players may be able to coordinate large farming efforts to generate large amounts of ISK with relative ease. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4418	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:07:00 - [48] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Update: Alright, we've established this isn't particularly pay to win, but increasing ISK returns through booster use should cause concern for teams that coordinate opposing FW deploys in order to boost ISK via ending matches fast with suicide cloning in starter suits. Unlike PC there is no initial price investment to start a match (i.e. clone packs). ISK boosting cannot currently be achieved due to LP items previously being unable to be sold. Now with NPC vendor and triple faction booster stacking abilities, players may be able to coordinate large farming efforts to generate large amounts of ISK with relative ease. the only way to prevent that is to lock in a suicide count that kicks you. same as the damage counter that kicks me out when SOME DUMBASS BLUEBERRY rams my Jihad Jeep with his tank. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:12:00 - [49] - Quote A suicide or player fell and died limit check is only going to get you so far. Teams that coordinate deploys can just as easily meat grind each other by placing uplinks next to each other. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4420	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:17:00 - [50] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: A suicide or player fell and died limit check is only going to get you so far. Teams that coordinate deploys can just as easily meat grind each other by placing uplinks next to each other. You can't fix every exploit. It's impossible. Honestly there should be a threshold where the game says "screw it" and allows you to blaze on team-sabotaging blue dots. But nope. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:22:00 - [51] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: A suicide or player fell and died limit check is only going to get you so far. Teams that coordinate deploys can just as easily meat grind each other by placing uplinks next to each other. You can't fix every exploit. It's impossible. Honestly there should be a threshold where the game says "screw it" and allows you to blaze on team-sabotaging blue dots. But nope. Proto gear will be more fun to run away. But don't tell Viktor about any of this. I want the extent of ISK inflation post 1.9 to be a real surprise for him in his Templar Code business. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3384	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:23:00 - [52] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Update: Alright, we've established this isn't particularly pay to win, but increasing ISK returns through booster use should cause concern for teams that coordinate opposing FW deploys in order to boost ISK via ending matches fast with suicide cloning in starter suits. Unlike PC there is no initial price investment to start a match (i.e. clone packs). ISK boosting cannot currently be achieved due to LP items previously being unable to be sold. Now with NPC vendor and triple faction booster stacking abilities, players may be able to coordinate large farming efforts to generate large amounts of ISK with relative ease. At the same time why would you farm LP with this method just to sell it to buy something with ISK? Granted the LP store has many holes in it in terms of what you can buy, but its also arguable that the Items you buy with LP are better than the items you buy with ISK. So...sure you can farm LP, then sell it for half its value to buy the ISK version of the thing you just sold? I think in this case the Vendor isn't the issue, but more so the concern about gaining large amounts of LP very quickly. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6888	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:25:00 - [53] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: A common definition of Pay-to-Win is "items of greater quality can only be bought for real money". This scenario does not violate that principle. On the ISK generation, I believe that the community has asked for a way to make ISK losses in FW more bearable, and I think with the fact that you need to purchase the LP items first, combined with a lower than market price resell value, that this will only offset losses for the most part. I think what VikingKong was getting at is that the Market Agent presents a situation in which players with AUR will be the only ones who can get that advantage of 50% resell value (assuming they maxed out their Loyalty Rank as well). This presents a situation in which players with this agent will suffer less loses in terms of ISK than players without it. So they will make less ISK per second. Sounds like buying time. Which is, by your very definition, Pay-to-Win. Important Legion Transparency Post Lv5
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4422	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:30:00 - [54] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: A common definition of Pay-to-Win is "items of greater quality can only be bought for real money". This scenario does not violate that principle. On the ISK generation, I believe that the community has asked for a way to make ISK losses in FW more bearable, and I think with the fact that you need to purchase the LP items first, combined with a lower than market price resell value, that this will only offset losses for the most part. I think what VikingKong was getting at is that the Market Agent presents a situation in which players with AUR will be the only ones who can get that advantage of 50% resell value (assuming they maxed out their Loyalty Rank as well). This presents a situation in which players with this agent will suffer less loses in terms of ISK than players without it. So they will make less ISK per second. Sounds like buying time. Which is, by your very definition, Pay-to-Win. EDIT: This isn't like Eve's Plex system where I give CCP money for an in-game card that I can then sell to another player and receive ISK. ISK is being generated from thin air at a rate higher for a player who pays as opposed to a player who doesn't. Really reaching up your ass to justify this as pay to win. Until ISK cannot buy items of similar quality to Aurum for in-gameplay effect it is not pay to win. In all cases aurum only accelerates the availability of items. aurum only accelerates the availability of more ISk. If you were required to buy the agent for aurum in order to earn ISK then it would be pay to win. saving time is not pay to win. Nice try. When CCP puts officer weapons/dropsuits/modules up for aurum (and not for ISK/LP) THEN we will have achieved pay to win EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:35:00 - [55] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: Update: Alright, we've established this isn't particularly pay to win, but increasing ISK returns through booster use should cause concern for teams that coordinate opposing FW deploys in order to boost ISK via ending matches fast with suicide cloning in starter suits. Unlike PC there is no initial price investment to start a match (i.e. clone packs). ISK boosting cannot currently be achieved due to LP items previously being unable to be sold. Now with NPC vendor and triple faction booster stacking abilities, players may be able to coordinate large farming efforts to generate large amounts of ISK with relative ease. At the same time why would you farm LP with this method just to sell it to buy something with ISK? Granted the LP store has many holes in it in terms of what you can buy, but its also arguable that the Items you buy with LP are better than the items you buy with ISK. So...sure you can farm LP, then sell it for half its value to buy the ISK version of the thing you just sold? I think in this case the Vendor isn't the issue, but more so the concern about gaining large amounts of LP very quickly. Going by the current math, players with high FW levels are going to earn a minimum 600k every match after they sell their goods--this applies to all players on both teams as LP payouts don't scale with player contribution. If a corp wanted to gain ISK for whatever purpose they could stick 32 players in a match and gain about 20 million ISK for the corp each match. This ability to create ISK out of thin air so quickly really devalues it and the impact of resource scarcity. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3384	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:37:00 - [56] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: EDIT: This isn't like Eve's Plex system where I give CCP money for an in-game card that I can then sell to another player and receive ISK. ISK is being generated from thin air at a rate higher for a player who pays as opposed to a player who doesn't. But in that closed system it's the same effect. If Dust actually had a player market where inflation was a factor, then yes, making ISK out of thin air would be bad. But in a system where items are generated by the NPC and prices are locked, inflation is far less of a factor. So if you take it as a closed system, the person who buys the PLEX can make ISK with basically zero effort, it doesn't matter where the money comes from in a close system. He has purchased ISK with real world cash, which is something that the other player cannot do unless he also purchases a PLEX and sells it. If someone buys AUR, they can make ISK with basically zero effort. Buying ISK and AUR are effectively the same. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3384	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:40:00 - [57] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: Update: Alright, we've established this isn't particularly pay to win, but increasing ISK returns through booster use should cause concern for teams that coordinate opposing FW deploys in order to boost ISK via ending matches fast with suicide cloning in starter suits. Unlike PC there is no initial price investment to start a match (i.e. clone packs). ISK boosting cannot currently be achieved due to LP items previously being unable to be sold. Now with NPC vendor and triple faction booster stacking abilities, players may be able to coordinate large farming efforts to generate large amounts of ISK with relative ease. At the same time why would you farm LP with this method just to sell it to buy something with ISK? Granted the LP store has many holes in it in terms of what you can buy, but its also arguable that the Items you buy with LP are better than the items you buy with ISK. So...sure you can farm LP, then sell it for half its value to buy the ISK version of the thing you just sold? I think in this case the Vendor isn't the issue, but more so the concern about gaining large amounts of LP very quickly. Going by the current math, players with high FW levels are going to earn a minimum 600k every match after they sell their goods--this applies to all players on both teams as LP payouts don't scale with player contribution. If a corp wanted to gain ISK for whatever purpose they could stick 32 players in a match and gain about 20 million ISK for the corp each match. This ability to create ISK out of thin air so quickly really devalues it and the impact of resource scarcity. True but why would you sell it if you can just use the items you buy with the LP? I mean you say 'whatever reason' but the only thing ISK is good for is either buying suits/weapons or launching PC attacks. The first doesnt make sense as I outline before because its more beneficial to just keep the items you buy with LP. In the second, sure you can launch an attack, but you still need suits and weapons to fight the attack, which circles back to the first point of.....just use the LP to buy the suits then. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:40:00 - [58] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: EDIT: This isn't like Eve's Plex system where I give CCP money for an in-game card that I can then sell to another player and receive ISK. ISK is being generated from thin air at a rate higher for a player who pays as opposed to a player who doesn't. Yes, tampering with resource scarcity is the important thing here. In EVE, the devs have a better control over the ISK faucet with how much ISK is awarded from NPC missions and other activities. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3384	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:44:00 - [59] - Quote For the record I'm not really a fan of the triple stacking boosters for FW for the purpose of it providing too much LP gain. I just don't think the LP to ISK conversion is problematic because it's not particularly efficient. Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:47:00 - [60] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: True but why would you sell it if you can just use the items you buy with the LP? I mean you say 'whatever reason' but the only thing ISK is good for is either buying suits/weapons or launching PC attacks. The first doesnt make sense as I outline before because its more beneficial to just keep the items you buy with LP. In the second, sure you can launch an attack, but you still need suits and weapons to fight the attack, which circles back to the first point of.....just use the LP to buy the suits then. A lot of game mechanics seems borked by this diminished nature of resource scarcity. It's the ISK generating potential over pubs and PC via farmers that seems problematic. Who says the same people farming have to be the A team that fights your PC battles? Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!



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