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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
4154
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Posted - 2014.11.03 04:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Do you see an issue with the ISK generation capacity in being able to triple stack faction boosters which translate to greater amounts of LP which can now be sold now for ISK? I see a pay to win argument issue here in regards to the necessity of buying the AUR market agent in order for players and corps to get more out of this ISK from LP goods sales in order to use elsewhere such as planetary conquest.
Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
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Banjo Robertson
Evzones
Public.Disorder.
294
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Posted - 2014.11.03 04:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
I guess it depends on the resale value of the LP store items.
The most you'd ever get back from an item is 50% of isk value, thats after buying the AUR market agent and having max level Loyaly Rank. 20% of isk value if starting with no bonuses or agent.
They said they'd be using the ISK value for AUR items you sell back, but havent said the ISK value for LP items, since these items already cost ISK ontop of LP, it might be you'd only get back the ISK value associated with the item, rather than the ISK value of the item its based on. |
Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
7254
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Posted - 2014.11.03 05:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Do you see an issue with the ISK generation capacity in being able to triple stack faction boosters which translate to greater amounts of LP which can now be sold now for ISK? I see a pay to win argument issue here in regards to the necessity of buying the AUR market agent in order for players and corps to get more out of this ISK from LP goods sales in order to use elsewhere such as planetary conquest.
I just realized that you can sell FW assets.
At max rank, how much relative ISK could you generate I wonder....
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
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VikingKong iBUN
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
154
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Posted - 2014.11.03 05:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Wait a minute, we're gona need to buy a "Market Agent" with AUR in order to sell stuff for ISK? |
Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
4154
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Posted - 2014.11.03 05:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
VikingKong iBUN wrote:Wait a minute, we're gona need to buy a "Market Agent" with AUR in order to sell stuff for ISK?
No, but it increases you sales rate by 15%. This is a one time purchase for AUR, but it's required in order to bring up your sell back rate to 50% of the item's ISK value in the market.
Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
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VikingKong iBUN
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
155
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Posted - 2014.11.03 05:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:VikingKong iBUN wrote:Wait a minute, we're gona need to buy a "Market Agent" with AUR in order to sell stuff for ISK? No, but it increases you sales rate by 15%. This is a one time purchase for AUR, but it's required in order to bring up your sell back rate to 50% of the item's ISK value in the market.
Dafuq?! This is preposterous. This is utterly absurd and ridiculous. I see what people mean when they say Dust just turned PTW. |
Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
4154
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Posted - 2014.11.03 05:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Banjo Robertson wrote:I guess it depends on the resale value of the LP store items.
The most you'd ever get back from an item is 50% of isk value, thats after buying the AUR market agent and having max level Loyaly Rank. 20% of isk value if starting with no bonuses or agent.
They said they'd be using the ISK value for AUR items you sell back, but havent said the ISK value for LP items, since these items already cost ISK ontop of LP, it might be you'd only get back the ISK value associated with the item, rather than the ISK value of the item its based on.
LP items show an ISK value in the SDE. For example:
Federation Duvolle Specialist Assault Rifle goes for 77,280 ISK.
Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
4154
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Posted - 2014.11.03 05:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
VikingKong iBUN wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:VikingKong iBUN wrote:Wait a minute, we're gona need to buy a "Market Agent" with AUR in order to sell stuff for ISK? No, but it increases you sales rate by 15%. This is a one time purchase for AUR, but it's required in order to bring up your sell back rate to 50% of the item's ISK value in the market. Dafuq?! This is preposterous. This is utterly absurd and ridiculous. I see what people mean when they say Dust just turned PTW.
Corps will never play pubs again...I guess there's that.
Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
9978
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Posted - 2014.11.03 06:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
A common definition of Pay-to-Win is "items of greater quality can only be bought for real money". This scenario does not violate that principle.
On the ISK generation, I believe that the community has asked for a way to make ISK losses in FW more bearable, and I think with the fact that you need to purchase the LP items first, combined with a lower than market price resell value, that this will only offset losses for the most part.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Maken Tosch
Dust University
Ivy League
10060
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Posted - 2014.11.03 06:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:A common definition of Pay-to-Win is "items of greater quality can only be bought for real money". This scenario does not violate that principle.
On the ISK generation, I believe that the community has asked for a way to make ISK losses in FW more bearable, and I think with the fact that you need to purchase the LP items first, combined with a lower than market price resell value, that this will only offset losses for the most part.
I think what VikingKong was getting at is that the Market Agent presents a situation in which players with AUR will be the only ones who can get that advantage of 50% resell value (assuming they maxed out their Loyalty Rank as well). This presents a situation in which players with this agent will suffer less loses in terms of ISK than players without it.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
4155
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Posted - 2014.11.03 06:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Fair enough Rattati, I could see this encouraging stronger fights. I'm looking at Cat Merc's math and with boosters, high level players are looking at LP payouts above 3000. This roughly equates to +1.2 million per match--equivalent to planetary conquest payouts.
Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
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Maken Tosch
Dust University
Ivy League
10061
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Posted - 2014.11.03 06:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Fair enough Rattati, I could see this encouraging stronger fights. I'm looking at Cat Merc's math and with boosters, high level players are looking at LP payouts above 3000. This roughly equates to +1.2 million per match--equivalent to planetary conquest payouts.
Interesting. So effectively this will mean FW will be a great way to get newbies acclimated into how PC will be before they join.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
4155
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Posted - 2014.11.03 06:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Now add a team deploy Maken, and you have corp battles whenever you like.
Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
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Maken Tosch
Dust University
Ivy League
10061
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Posted - 2014.11.03 06:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Now add a team deploy Maken, and you have corp battles whenever you like.
/dreams
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
9986
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Posted - 2014.11.03 06:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
The only way to have team deploy is to have an either or system
Create 16 man squad (can only exist in FW)
Join FW queue, q-sync if you want to try and fight another specific 16 man team
If no other 16 man squad is queuing, then wait forever
Is that something someone is interested in?
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
9986
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Posted - 2014.11.03 06:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:A common definition of Pay-to-Win is "items of greater quality can only be bought for real money". This scenario does not violate that principle.
On the ISK generation, I believe that the community has asked for a way to make ISK losses in FW more bearable, and I think with the fact that you need to purchase the LP items first, combined with a lower than market price resell value, that this will only offset losses for the most part. I think what VikingKong was getting at is that the Market Agent presents a situation in which players with AUR will be the only ones who can get that advantage of 50% resell value (assuming they maxed out their Loyalty Rank as well). This presents a situation in which players with this agent will suffer less loses in terms of ISK than players without it.
So they will make less ISK per second. Sounds like buying time.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
4156
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Posted - 2014.11.03 07:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The only way to have team deploy is to have an either or system
Create 16 man squad (can only exist in FW)
Join FW queue, q-sync if you want to try and fight another specific 16 man team
If no other 16 man squad is queuing, then wait forever
Is that something someone is interested in?
Is there a way to create a sub section in create squad menu to 'create FW squad'?
Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
1508
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Posted - 2014.11.03 07:03:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The only way to have team deploy is to have an either or system
Create 16 man squad (can only exist in FW)
Join FW queue, q-sync if you want to try and fight another specific 16 man team
If no other 16 man squad is queuing, then wait forever
Is that something someone is interested in?
Honestly. No. I play a lot of facwar and it's already more than easy enough to sync if people are actually interested in doing it. I don't really want to see it become easier to just stomp the crap out of matches.
What I am interested in, is stuff along the lines of eve's fw, where you can put LP into infrastructure that does stuff like boosts earnings for everyone involved (that's what it does in eve, there's a lot of ideas for what it could do in dust - maybe say give more clones to one side or cause certain districts to have a 'target' placed on them).
Until there's a 'better' interface for facwar that allows dust players to target certain systems and spend loyalty points on infrastructure (maybe LP installations that can be deployed in matches for example), I'm not interested in team deployment.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
VP Gaming Alliance
634
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Posted - 2014.11.03 07:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The only way to have team deploy is to have an either or system
Create 16 man squad (can only exist in FW)
Join FW queue, q-sync if you want to try and fight another specific 16 man team
If no other 16 man squad is queuing, then wait forever
Is that something someone is interested in?
explain. would you need to field a full 16 man team, or could deploy a partial team? |
Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
8212
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Posted - 2014.11.03 07:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The only way to have team deploy is to have an either or system
Create 16 man squad (can only exist in FW)
Join FW queue, q-sync if you want to try and fight another specific 16 man team
If no other 16 man squad is queuing, then wait forever
Is that something someone is interested in?
Sure, could we have it PC in addition to your FW only rule?
I'd also like to have it be more distinct and instead of calling it a squad call it a Patrol or something equivalent.
"Man this New Patrol Finder is so nice, I can get into Faction Warfares in no time because of it"
CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
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Jadek Menaheim
Xer Cloud Consortium
4158
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Posted - 2014.11.03 07:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:"Man this New Patrol Finder is so nice, I can get into Faction Warfares in no time because of it"
Nice call! 
Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
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Meee One
Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki
1238
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Posted - 2014.11.03 08:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:A common definition of Pay-to-Win is "items of greater quality can only be bought for real money". This scenario does not violate that principle.
On the ISK generation, I believe that the community has asked for a way to make ISK losses in FW more bearable, and I think with the fact that you need to purchase the LP items first, combined with a lower than market price resell value, that this will only offset losses for the most part.
>AUR is bought with money
>greater quality being 15% increase to sales
>seeing as there is no ISK version it equals 0%
You yourself,with your own definition of P2W have just stated that this new mechanic is P2W.
Official Blueberry of the Forums.
Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
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Meee One
Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki
1238
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Posted - 2014.11.03 08:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:A common definition of Pay-to-Win is "items of greater quality can only be bought for real money". This scenario does not violate that principle.
On the ISK generation, I believe that the community has asked for a way to make ISK losses in FW more bearable, and I think with the fact that you need to purchase the LP items first, combined with a lower than market price resell value, that this will only offset losses for the most part. I think what VikingKong was getting at is that the Market Agent presents a situation in which players with AUR will be the only ones who can get that advantage of 50% resell value (assuming they maxed out their Loyalty Rank as well). This presents a situation in which players with this agent will suffer less loses in terms of ISK than players without it. So they will make less ISK per second. Sounds like buying time.
Buying time would be if there were an expensive ISK version as well as a comparitively cheap AUR version.
For example:
-100-500 million ISK version
-or-
-20k AUR version
As good F2P models show,you give early access,not exclusive access to your real money spenders.
You make AUR more appealing by making it much faster than ISK,but don't punish those that use ISK.
You already have early access methods in Dust ffs:
-boosters
-AUR gear
Just do with the agent as you would with a 'neo' suit vs a regular.
Official Blueberry of the Forums.
Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14081
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Posted - 2014.11.03 09:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
Fantastic if I can't earn my FW content and prove I'm a loyalist then **** it I'm just going to buy it.
- Mantra of post 1.9 FW kiddies
GÇ£How does this all work then?GÇ¥
GÇ£Like so Choirboy.GÇ¥
- Mila to Kador, Sub Zero Club, Shoashu Sasaanko
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
12936
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Posted - 2014.11.03 09:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:A common definition of Pay-to-Win is "items of greater quality can only be bought for real money". This scenario does not violate that principle.
On the ISK generation, I believe that the community has asked for a way to make ISK losses in FW more bearable, and I think with the fact that you need to purchase the LP items first, combined with a lower than market price resell value, that this will only offset losses for the most part.
I will do the math when I get home, but IIRC Arkena did a calculation a while ago.
If you play at level 10, at 20% resell, you make 200k~ a match.
At 50% it's 500k.
With boosters I can see this getting to a million ISK a match.
This is just from my memory, I will do the math when I'm back from school.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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CommanderBolt
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
2262
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Posted - 2014.11.03 09:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The only way to have team deploy is to have an either or system
Create 16 man squad (can only exist in FW)
Join FW queue, q-sync if you want to try and fight another specific 16 man team
If no other 16 man squad is queuing, then wait forever
Is that something someone is interested in?
That sounds like an amazing idea to me!
Get those FW channels buzzing with activity trying to find 16 guys to ram into a giant squad ready to fight for their chosen faction. Sounds good to me and I like the fact that they cannot go against a team of randoms, not in a 16man squad.
"Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones"
"Guns for show, Knives for a pro"
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
14081
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Posted - 2014.11.03 10:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The only way to have team deploy is to have an either or system
Create 16 man squad (can only exist in FW)
Join FW queue, q-sync if you want to try and fight another specific 16 man team
If no other 16 man squad is queuing, then wait forever
Is that something someone is interested in?
Not in the slightest if it means organised players are forced to wait outside the Ques for another organised team that would be taking away another means of player organisation to affect what little we actually can from us.
GÇ£How does this all work then?GÇ¥
GÇ£Like so Choirboy.GÇ¥
- Mila to Kador, Sub Zero Club, Shoashu Sasaanko
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
4362
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Posted - 2014.11.03 11:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The only way to have team deploy is to have an either or system
Create 16 man squad (can only exist in FW)
Join FW queue, q-sync if you want to try and fight another specific 16 man team
If no other 16 man squad is queuing, then wait forever
Is that something someone is interested in?
I would be more interested in a system that has 2 queues for facwar. One for teams and one for the rest of us plebes.
Bluntly IMHO all game modes should have a separate team deploy that is exempt from matchmaking rules. If you team deploy you pays your money and takes your chances.
I also believe that bringing a whole team to a fight should result in higher payouts, with winning and losing having a notable effect on the payouts.
We need to incentivise teams, corps and the cooperative aspects of DUST.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Juno Tristan
Namtar Elite
Gallente Federation
133
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Posted - 2014.11.03 11:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Meee One wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:A common definition of Pay-to-Win is "items of greater quality can only be bought for real money". This scenario does not violate that principle.
On the ISK generation, I believe that the community has asked for a way to make ISK losses in FW more bearable, and I think with the fact that you need to purchase the LP items first, combined with a lower than market price resell value, that this will only offset losses for the most part. >AUR is bought with money >greater quality being 15% increase to sales >seeing as there is no ISK version it equals 0% You yourself,with your own definition of P2W have just stated that this new mechanic is P2W.
Aurum gives you an advantage, that's the incentive to use it, but its an advantage that can be overcome by playing the game
in this instance, play some pub matches in militia gear and you're back up to the same level of ISK
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Jaysyn Larrisen
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
1288
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Posted - 2014.11.03 12:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The only way to have team deploy is to have an either or system
Create 16 man squad (can only exist in FW)
Join FW queue, q-sync if you want to try and fight another specific 16 man team
If no other 16 man squad is queuing, then wait forever
Is that something someone is interested in?
How hard would this be to implement on a trial basis. Team deploy in FW would be pretty awesome, but it's difficult to judge wait times.
I could see this working pretty well if we made sure to get into out pretty early and often to alert the bulk of the player base. I can also see some pretty interesting FW rivalries occurring....you'll start seeing a few very organized groups coalescing to do this.
I also predict that PC teams will hit this pretty hard as a practice method. It would be pretty easy to advertise "My PC team will be on from 0200-0500 tomorrow in FW...que up if you want to scrimmage".
in short...i like it. It doesn't prevent us from doing things we way we do now and gives a team oriented option.
"Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero
Skype: jaysyn.larrisen
Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
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