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CCP Rattati, possible issue with triple stacking FW booster

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4154	Posted - 2014.11.03 04:32:00 - [1] - Quote Do you see an issue with the ISK generation capacity in being able to triple stack faction boosters which translate to greater amounts of LP which can now be sold now for ISK? I see a pay to win argument issue here in regards to the necessity of buying the AUR market agent in order for players and corps to get more out of this ISK from LP goods sales in order to use elsewhere such as planetary conquest. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4154	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:50:00 - [2] - Quote VikingKong iBUN wrote: Wait a minute, we're gona need to buy a "Market Agent" with AUR in order to sell stuff for ISK? No, but it increases you sales rate by 15%. This is a one time purchase for AUR, but it's required in order to bring up your sell back rate to 50% of the item's ISK value in the market. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4154	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:57:00 - [3] - Quote Banjo Robertson wrote: I guess it depends on the resale value of the LP store items. The most you'd ever get back from an item is 50% of isk value, thats after buying the AUR market agent and having max level Loyaly Rank. 20% of isk value if starting with no bonuses or agent. They said they'd be using the ISK value for AUR items you sell back, but havent said the ISK value for LP items, since these items already cost ISK ontop of LP, it might be you'd only get back the ISK value associated with the item, rather than the ISK value of the item its based on. LP items show an ISK value in the SDE. For example: Federation Duvolle Specialist Assault Rifle goes for 77,280 ISK. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4154	Posted - 2014.11.03 05:57:00 - [4] - Quote VikingKong iBUN wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: VikingKong iBUN wrote: Wait a minute, we're gona need to buy a "Market Agent" with AUR in order to sell stuff for ISK? No, but it increases you sales rate by 15%. This is a one time purchase for AUR, but it's required in order to bring up your sell back rate to 50% of the item's ISK value in the market. Dafuq?! This is preposterous. This is utterly absurd and ridiculous. I see what people mean when they say Dust just turned PTW. Corps will never play pubs again...I guess there's that. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4155	Posted - 2014.11.03 06:37:00 - [5] - Quote Fair enough Rattati, I could see this encouraging stronger fights. I'm looking at Cat Merc's math and with boosters, high level players are looking at LP payouts above 3000. This roughly equates to +1.2 million per match--equivalent to planetary conquest payouts. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4155	Posted - 2014.11.03 06:42:00 - [6] - Quote Now add a team deploy Maken, and you have corp battles whenever you like. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4156	Posted - 2014.11.03 07:00:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The only way to have team deploy is to have an either or system Create 16 man squad (can only exist in FW) Join FW queue, q-sync if you want to try and fight another specific 16 man team If no other 16 man squad is queuing, then wait forever Is that something someone is interested in? Is there a way to create a sub section in create squad menu to 'create FW squad'? Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4158	Posted - 2014.11.03 07:41:00 - [8] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: "Man this New Patrol Finder is so nice, I can get into Faction Warfares in no time because of it" Nice call! Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:05:00 - [9] - Quote Update: Alright, we've established this isn't particularly pay to win, but increasing ISK returns through booster use should cause concern for teams that coordinate opposing FW deploys in order to boost ISK via ending matches fast with suicide cloning in starter suits. Unlike PC there is no initial price investment to start a match (i.e. clone packs). ISK boosting cannot currently be achieved due to LP items previously being unable to be sold. Now with NPC vendor and triple faction booster stacking abilities, players may be able to coordinate large farming efforts to generate large amounts of ISK with relative ease. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:12:00 - [10] - Quote A suicide or player fell and died limit check is only going to get you so far. Teams that coordinate deploys can just as easily meat grind each other by placing uplinks next to each other. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!

Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:22:00 - [11] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: A suicide or player fell and died limit check is only going to get you so far. Teams that coordinate deploys can just as easily meat grind each other by placing uplinks next to each other. You can't fix every exploit. It's impossible. Honestly there should be a threshold where the game says "screw it" and allows you to blaze on team-sabotaging blue dots. But nope. Proto gear will be more fun to run away. But don't tell Viktor about any of this. I want the extent of ISK inflation post 1.9 to be a real surprise for him in his Templar Code business. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:35:00 - [12] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: Update: Alright, we've established this isn't particularly pay to win, but increasing ISK returns through booster use should cause concern for teams that coordinate opposing FW deploys in order to boost ISK via ending matches fast with suicide cloning in starter suits. Unlike PC there is no initial price investment to start a match (i.e. clone packs). ISK boosting cannot currently be achieved due to LP items previously being unable to be sold. Now with NPC vendor and triple faction booster stacking abilities, players may be able to coordinate large farming efforts to generate large amounts of ISK with relative ease. At the same time why would you farm LP with this method just to sell it to buy something with ISK? Granted the LP store has many holes in it in terms of what you can buy, but its also arguable that the Items you buy with LP are better than the items you buy with ISK. So...sure you can farm LP, then sell it for half its value to buy the ISK version of the thing you just sold? I think in this case the Vendor isn't the issue, but more so the concern about gaining large amounts of LP very quickly. Going by the current math, players with high FW levels are going to earn a minimum 600k every match after they sell their goods--this applies to all players on both teams as LP payouts don't scale with player contribution. If a corp wanted to gain ISK for whatever purpose they could stick 32 players in a match and gain about 20 million ISK for the corp each match. This ability to create ISK out of thin air so quickly really devalues it and the impact of resource scarcity. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:40:00 - [13] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: EDIT: This isn't like Eve's Plex system where I give CCP money for an in-game card that I can then sell to another player and receive ISK. ISK is being generated from thin air at a rate higher for a player who pays as opposed to a player who doesn't. Yes, tampering with resource scarcity is the important thing here. In EVE, the devs have a better control over the ISK faucet with how much ISK is awarded from NPC missions and other activities. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:47:00 - [14] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: True but why would you sell it if you can just use the items you buy with the LP? I mean you say 'whatever reason' but the only thing ISK is good for is either buying suits/weapons or launching PC attacks. The first doesnt make sense as I outline before because its more beneficial to just keep the items you buy with LP. In the second, sure you can launch an attack, but you still need suits and weapons to fight the attack, which circles back to the first point of.....just use the LP to buy the suits then. A lot of game mechanics seems borked by this diminished nature of resource scarcity. It's the ISK generating potential over pubs and PC via farmers that seems problematic. Who says the same people farming have to be the A team that fights your PC battles? Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:49:00 - [15] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: For the record I'm not really a fan of the triple stacking boosters for FW for the purpose of it providing too much LP gain. I just don't think the LP to ISK conversion is problematic because it's not particularly efficient. It'll be much more cost efficient that buying AUR items directly to generate ISK. That fact hurts CCP's bottom line. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 23:08:00 - [16] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Also a fair point in that it's not perfectly closed, but to that I ask....to what degree does this actually affect things? I guess I find it interesting that people are very up in arms about the Agent, yet so few were upset about the reintroduction of BPOs, which I feel have a MUCH larger effect on ISK generation than the Agent does. It goes along with the idea the Leither brought up in the podcast that the introduction of these things now decreases the potential of a meaningful EVE integration down the line. It may also signify the higher likelihood of an asset reset down the line in Legion as caution is thrown to the wind now. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 23:09:00 - [17] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Also a fair point in that it's not perfectly closed, but to that I ask....to what degree does this actually affect things? I guess I find it interesting that people are very up in arms about the Agent, yet so few were upset about the reintroduction of BPOs, which I feel have a MUCH larger effect on ISK generation than the Agent does. I've always been up in arms about BPO's being anything but Vanity items. Thing is, I learned my lesson trying to convince people because Dusters don't give a **** about Eve's economy; they don't notice the effects they have on it. Oh I know you have, but public outcry in general is much greater for the Agent but not so much over BPOs. It's just interesting how people perceive things even though their effects are the same. Here's a thought...what if LP items could be sold but not for ISK. Instead they had the same conversion rate (20-50%) but could be 'traded' for other faction's LP? This keeps the LP in the FW asset cycle but stills allows the purchase of LP from other stores via conversion? I'm on board with that suggestion. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 23:11:00 - [18] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: If every DUST ISK got dropped into EVE's economy TODAY, and I mean EVERY SINGLE ISK all at the same moment. We'd notice a minor economic bump that settled out back to normal within three hours. I don't think you comprehend how little economic power DUST players have compared to even a twenty-day-old EVE newbie running the Level 2-3 ISK printer. Oh: If you have 2 billion in your wallet you can afford to buy my fitted Kronos. One of thirty ships I have on one character. Okay, that's a good point. Under the 1.9 changes $200 of AUR purchases would net you something like 500m ISK in Dust, whereas $20 would get you an Eve Plex that sells for 700m ISK. We wouldn't break EVE, but Eve would break Dust. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!
Jadek Menaheim Xer Cloud Consortium 4168	Posted - 2014.11.03 23:30:00 - [19] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Well yeah Aeon, the lack of a complete LP store is extremely problematic. I know its a big workload, but especially with 1.9, we need it more than ever. I would quote EVE (And forgive me if I"m totally off base here) but I seem to recall that doing Incursions earned you CONCORD LP, which can be then used to 'purchase' LP from any faction you want. So in this case you would sell your LP items for CONCORD (or whatever neutral party) LP which could then be use to 'purchase' from the faction of your choice. I like that. It would be more meaningful if you were penalized more strongly for switching factions, while Concord LP would still allow you to buys some necessary items from competing factions. Try the new Planetary Conquest Mode!