DUST Search - CCP Rattati, possible issue with triple stacking FW booster

Aeon Amadi wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

Maken Tosch wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

A common definition of Pay-to-Win is "items of greater quality can only be bought for real money". This scenario does not violate that principle.

On the ISK generation, I believe that the community has asked for a way to make ISK losses in FW more bearable, and I think with the fact that you need to purchase the LP items first, combined with a lower than market price resell value, that this will only offset losses for the most part.

I think what VikingKong was getting at is that the Market Agent presents a situation in which players with AUR will be the only ones who can get that advantage of 50% resell value (assuming they maxed out their Loyalty Rank as well). This presents a situation in which players with this agent will suffer less loses in terms of ISK than players without it.

So they will make less ISK per second. Sounds like buying time.

Which is, by your very definition, Pay-to-Win.

EDIT: This isn't like Eve's Plex system where I give CCP money for an in-game card that I can then sell to another player and receive ISK. ISK is being generated from thin air at a rate higher for a player who pays as opposed to a player who doesn't.

EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4362	Posted - 2014.11.03 11:05:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The only way to have team deploy is to have an either or system Create 16 man squad (can only exist in FW) Join FW queue, q-sync if you want to try and fight another specific 16 man team If no other 16 man squad is queuing, then wait forever Is that something someone is interested in? I would be more interested in a system that has 2 queues for facwar. One for teams and one for the rest of us plebes. Bluntly IMHO all game modes should have a separate team deploy that is exempt from matchmaking rules. If you team deploy you pays your money and takes your chances. I also believe that bringing a whole team to a fight should result in higher payouts, with winning and losing having a notable effect on the payouts. We need to incentivise teams, corps and the cooperative aspects of DUST. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4363	Posted - 2014.11.03 12:43:00 - [2] - Quote Make a twam queue side by side with the regular one but with no overlap between the two. That way you can have team vs. Team without falling into team vs randoms. And I misread rattati's post. Derp. If you do that and put team rewards higher than solo pubstar rewards more people will team deploy. Making team rewards > solo rewards should be a thing. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4377	Posted - 2014.11.03 17:38:00 - [3] - Quote When CCP requires you to pay 20.00 per month to earn ISK or else be stuck forever in starter suits DUST becomes pay to win. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4396	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:18:00 - [4] - Quote And I can use BPOs to run fits for free forever. Does that make them pay to win? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4402	Posted - 2014.11.03 19:48:00 - [5] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: And I can use BPOs to run fits for free forever. Does that make them pay to win? In the minds of dumb people, yes Thor, be nice and let people prove that they're stupid WITHOUT help. Should only take minimal baiting and a smattering of logic. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4418	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:07:00 - [6] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Update: Alright, we've established this isn't particularly pay to win, but increasing ISK returns through booster use should cause concern for teams that coordinate opposing FW deploys in order to boost ISK via ending matches fast with suicide cloning in starter suits. Unlike PC there is no initial price investment to start a match (i.e. clone packs). ISK boosting cannot currently be achieved due to LP items previously being unable to be sold. Now with NPC vendor and triple faction booster stacking abilities, players may be able to coordinate large farming efforts to generate large amounts of ISK with relative ease. the only way to prevent that is to lock in a suicide count that kicks you. same as the damage counter that kicks me out when SOME DUMBASS BLUEBERRY rams my Jihad Jeep with his tank. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4420	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:17:00 - [7] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: A suicide or player fell and died limit check is only going to get you so far. Teams that coordinate deploys can just as easily meat grind each other by placing uplinks next to each other. You can't fix every exploit. It's impossible. Honestly there should be a threshold where the game says "screw it" and allows you to blaze on team-sabotaging blue dots. But nope. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4422	Posted - 2014.11.03 22:30:00 - [8] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: A common definition of Pay-to-Win is "items of greater quality can only be bought for real money". This scenario does not violate that principle. On the ISK generation, I believe that the community has asked for a way to make ISK losses in FW more bearable, and I think with the fact that you need to purchase the LP items first, combined with a lower than market price resell value, that this will only offset losses for the most part. I think what VikingKong was getting at is that the Market Agent presents a situation in which players with AUR will be the only ones who can get that advantage of 50% resell value (assuming they maxed out their Loyalty Rank as well). This presents a situation in which players with this agent will suffer less loses in terms of ISK than players without it. So they will make less ISK per second. Sounds like buying time. Which is, by your very definition, Pay-to-Win. EDIT: This isn't like Eve's Plex system where I give CCP money for an in-game card that I can then sell to another player and receive ISK. ISK is being generated from thin air at a rate higher for a player who pays as opposed to a player who doesn't. Really reaching up your ass to justify this as pay to win. Until ISK cannot buy items of similar quality to Aurum for in-gameplay effect it is not pay to win. In all cases aurum only accelerates the availability of items. aurum only accelerates the availability of more ISk. If you were required to buy the agent for aurum in order to earn ISK then it would be pay to win. saving time is not pay to win. Nice try. When CCP puts officer weapons/dropsuits/modules up for aurum (and not for ISK/LP) THEN we will have achieved pay to win EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4423	Posted - 2014.11.03 23:08:00 - [9] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Also a fair point in that it's not perfectly closed, but to that I ask....to what degree does this actually affect things? I guess I find it interesting that people are very up in arms about the Agent, yet so few were upset about the reintroduction of BPOs, which I feel have a MUCH larger effect on ISK generation than the Agent does. I've always been up in arms about BPO's being anything but Vanity items. Thing is, I learned my lesson trying to convince people because Dusters don't give a **** about Eve's economy; they don't notice the effects they have on it. EDIT: I mean, don't get me wrong, they're available so I'll buy/use them as much as the next guy... I don't like it though. If every DUST ISK got dropped into EVE's economy TODAY, and I mean EVERY SINGLE ISK all at the same moment. We'd notice a minor economic bump that settled out back to normal within three hours. I don't think you comprehend how little economic power DUST players have compared to even a twenty-day-old EVE newbie running the Level 2-3 ISK printer. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4425	Posted - 2014.11.03 23:47:00 - [10] - Quote maybe a more constructive thing to push on would be to make DUST FW less of a schizoid human random number generator and allow EVE pilots to direct mercs at needed support hotspots. Just a thought. That would have a more positive effect than any ranting about a 15% ISK agent. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.