Dust 514 stalled in growth because of many reasons, one being the hunt for "true balance".

I honestly cannot answer that because I havent played for a long time except for yesterday. Let me reword it. Heres an example. Players respec. 75 percent skills into RRs. We all know (or should know) RRs are weak, just effective in mainly pubs. Yet the increase of usage causes GD to react. Because of Rattati's direction of pursuing FOTM discouraging by way of nerfing, RR is nerfed again. Mainstay users render it useless. Respec buyers just buy another respec and the process begins again.

Michael, Rattati's primary statistic for balance is not forum whining. You may wish to check the post he made today, it has pretty graphs and charts and explains a lot about the balance process. :)

I didnt say anything about forum whining though when discussing Rattati. I read his post before, that he wishes to discourage FOTM by way of nerfing. In fact he has nerfed items before based on a high usage percentage. Paid respecs give way to tipping the balance even further.

I dont think you understand how balancing or development works mate, the quest for balance will always be ongoing and stopping is a ******** idea

development of a game does not stop because a small team that isnt in charge of development ends up working on balancing

(P.S. Balancing takes into account the skill difference of players via the use of razors, it doesnt give them a handicap because "they are too good")

I think most of you dont understand what Im expressing and have rose tinted glasses on, mate.

Oh well, I will return later...got breakfast cooking.

I think most of you dont understand what Im expressing and have rose tinted glasses on, mate.

Oh well, I will return later...got breakfast cooking.

To be fair, I didn't leave "for" Destiny, I left because this game is a nightmare, Destiny just released around the same time. I have no ps3 or desire to use neutered ADS lol. I just saw the respec thing and laughed my ass off.

it wasnt neutered it had its Godmode ultimate-slayer-killer of anything moveing.. Title revoked.

If theres one thing Ratatti clearly still struggles to understand, its AV vs Vehicle balance.

This is the first time in the game's history we've legitimately had any attempt at AV vs. Vehicle balance.

I didnt say anything about forum whining though when discussing Rattati. I read his post before, that he wishes to discourage FOTM by way of nerfing. In fact he has nerfed items before based on a high usage percentage. Paid respecs give way to tipping the balance even further.

But thats not true. He has used high usage percentage as a starting point for investigating possible overpoweredness, but I'd like you to prove that hes using people using **** alot and just saying WELP LETS NERF IT.

Saying "Oh thats funny, the rail rifle is being used like 30% of the time which is way more than any other rifle, lets look at the kill rate of the weapon compared to other rifles and other data and see if its outperforming everything else" is way different to just saying "Oh thats funny, the rail rifle is being used like 30% of the time, lets nerf it now without even investigating".

Bright Cloud, I've heard this argument, but there is no logic to it. Just saying it repetitively does not make it true.

Every respec will cost money. (Exact cost not announced at current.) Players are not going to pay to switch fits every time the balance is changed when the difference in power is only a few percentage points, since the game is so much more balanced than it used to be, and SP gain will be so much higher. There's just no logic or sense in your statement.

I disagree. Now I can pay AUR to move into the FOTM. That is the very essence of pay to win. I pay money, I win. Loosing ISK is of absolutely no concern.

I think Bright Cloud is exaggerating at the scale at which people will get respec's but Cloud is still correct in that a substantial amount of people are likely to switch their skill points into the best rated gear for the moment.

I disagree. Now I can pay AUR to move into the FOTM. That is the very essence of pay to win. I pay money, I win. Loosing ISK is of absolutely no concern.

yea kool, thanks for funding ccp so dust can turn a profit off you guys specing into fotm so that they can afford to put more development resources into dust. really thanks. more money for them means they can afford to keep people working on the game.

How does that reduce the pay to win aspect or the homogenizing effect this will have on the battlefield? Did no one on the CPM mention either of these outcomes?

I am all for CCP making money. The more they make the longer I get to shoot face. This will have too many negatives to be worth the trade off though.

To be fair, I didn't leave "for" Destiny, I left because this game is a nightmare, Destiny just released around the same time. I have no ps3 or desire to use neutered ADS lol. I just saw the respec thing and laughed my ass off.

The players among us who think RESPEC is a cause for celebration and is going to solve GÇ£the point in the skill-path where I think I took the wrong turn and thatGÇÖs why I keep losing these fights---NOW IGÇÖm going to WIN these fightsGÇöjust watch me---GÇ£...

...are sort of like the compulsive gambler who swears sheGÇÖs got the right card-counting system to beat the casino at blackjack, and that last week she lost ONLY because she started playing after the third deck instead of the fourth deck.
The casino has nothing to lose and everything to win by letting that gambler come back to try again. SheGÇÖs still going to lose, because sheGÇÖs believing thereGÇÖs a SYSTEM in here somewhere that will give her straight wins.

CCP has nothing to lose and everything to win by letting you do-over (heck, they even know they can CHARGE you for a do-over, and youGÇÖll buy it) to try your luck at re-skilling. Most, (not all, but most) of us are still going to lose our new SP to the same poor judgement as before, because weGÇÖre believing thereGÇÖs a GÇ£pay-to-winGÇ¥ SYSTEM in here somewhere that will give us stomper-wins.

But Dust Fiend and Alena make great points:
WeGÇÖve played this game for so long, yet we STILL ignore AlenaGÇÖs true definition of GÇ£pay-to-winGÇ¥(your money or SP wonGÇÖt win you a Dust fightGÇöonly the unpreparedness of the red players).
There IS something being lost by respec-allowance. TIME is lost (that means the game has sacrificed some longevity with developing your merc).
And some RESPECT is lost for those players who stuck through the game the way EVE players stuck through---absorb your mistakes, eat your losses, grind the extra time as penance, and STILL prevail.
I wonGÇÖt be respect-ing. DonGÇÖt need to, ... and I donGÇÖt have any resentments against those who DO buy a respec (respec-ers most likely wonGÇÖt acknowledge my point of view about GÇ£respectingGÇ¥ the player who GÇÿsucks-it-up-n-takes-the grindGÇÖ, so... hey, why argue, Celesta.)

I WILL be curious about the reasons WHY Uprising 1.9 has such GÇ£giftsGÇ¥ for us players. Bakery going out of business, so give the muffins away at -+ price to keep them from spoiling without a profit? Throw all BPOs and leftover goods into a revolving-Aurum scheme that lines up players to have more addictive reasons to buy more Aurum from Sony between now and 2015 than weGÇÖve seen since Jan 2014? I donGÇÖt know.

Remember that funny scene in Peter JacksonGÇÖs movie where Golum bites the ring off FrodoGÇÖs finger and finally wins the ring,... heGÇÖs won, heGÇÖs won.... But, umm, waitGÇöwhat?

Yes, you won. But they went with my idea :)

True enough.

Okay, good game balance... combined with the cost of the respec which will likely make it not worth it for very small gains in benefit.

That is a side opinion and it doesn't address what I'm saying. If the balance was true now even after all his work (no offense Rattati), Judge wouldn't be pissed about the ADS and nerf talks wouldn't still be happening on GD. You cannot obtain true balance. Its either players are going to suck it up or others are going to complain. That is always the case and for that reason alone, true balance will never be achieved.

Yes, you won. But they went with my idea :)

True balance is able to be achieved through constant monitoring of data and tweaking the game as needed. It's going to upset players who get comfortable with certain play styles (ADS, RR) then have that play style changed. If they are adults they will accept it as a necessary part of keeping the game healthy; they will either adapt to the balance or switch to a different fitting.

Judge makes posts about the ADS because he got all warm and cozy in his 50 K/D genocide chariot, CCP discovered the overperformance of the ADS, and nerfed it accordingly. His play style has been disrupted. People don't like change. That has nothing to do with balance. It's just human nature.

Important note: no, Dust being healthy isn't an opinion. CCP Rouge, "WeGÇÿre very happy to see that our player base remains both stable and active. In fact, we are currently seeing the highest engagement numbers in over a year, averaging around 300.000 Monthly Active (unique) Users over the last few months" Quoted from this devblog. Anecdotally, I squad with new mercs more often now and members of my own corporation are returning to Dust after all of the hotfixes. Someone I thought would NEVER return to Dust, if coming back after hearing about 1.9.

Hell, even the forum feels a bit more active since the hotfixes.