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Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1179	Posted - 2014.10.29 11:51:00 - [31] - Quote i dont care i have increased sp Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1988	Posted - 2014.10.29 13:29:00 - [32] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Really? I thought a faction of the anti speccers won because there won't be any more free ones on the grounds of 'just because' and that the effort being put into these items would pay for the efforts. How does that reduce the pay to win aspect or the homogenizing effect this will have on the battlefield? Did no one on the CPM mention either of these outcomes? I am all for CCP making money. The more they make the longer I get to shoot face. This will have too many negatives to be worth the trade off though. Now with more evil.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4435	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:08:00 - [33] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: How does that reduce the pay to win aspect or the homogenizing effect this will have on the battlefield? There is no pay to win aspect. And good game balance will prevent homogenization on the battlefield. The fact that people get more SP over time does more to create homogenization on the battlefield than a respec ever will. (I have almost every weapon skilled up now, for instance.) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Tech De Ra Electronic Sports League 981	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:22:00 - [34] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: There is no pay to win aspect. And good game balance will prevent homogenization on the battlefield. Don't ever fall into the trap of saying good game balance prevents fotm/minmaxing/etc It reduces its effect, it will never prevent it Prime League champion SGL Sidearm champion Fanfest '14 All star champion
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4440	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:36:00 - [35] - Quote True enough. Okay, good game balance... combined with the cost of the respec which will likely make it not worth it for very small gains in benefit. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Tech De Ra Electronic Sports League 981	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:41:00 - [36] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: True enough. Okay, good game balance... combined with the cost of the respec which will likely make it not worth it for very small gains in benefit. thats a much better statement, you are learning young padawan Prime League champion SGL Sidearm champion Fanfest '14 All star champion
X7 lion Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 406	Posted - 2014.10.29 14:44:00 - [37] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: We win GG no RE yea kool, thanks for funding ccp so dust can turn a profit off you guys specing into fotm so that they can afford to put more development resources into dust. really thanks. more money for them means they can afford to keep people working on the game. Do not contribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance. being contradictory is not the same as being offensive.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1872	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:19:00 - [38] - Quote I'm a bit disappointed, to be honest, about the respec announcement, as I've been very measured in how I've spent my SP, and if I had it all to do over again, I'd do it exactly the same.... ...but if respecs lead towards increased player enjoyment and participation, I support the effort.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 455	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:19:00 - [39] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: True enough. Okay, good game balance... combined with the cost of the respec which will likely make it not worth it for very small gains in benefit. Game balance? Pardon me but every 1 will just chase after FOTM each time CCP changes something. And certain stuff will go extinct the minute the patch drops. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4443	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:25:00 - [40] - Quote Bright Cloud, I've heard this argument, but there is no logic to it. Just saying it repetitively does not make it true. Every respec will cost money. (Exact cost not announced at current.) Players are not going to pay to switch fits every time the balance is changed when the difference in power is only a few percentage points, since the game is so much more balanced than it used to be, and SP gain will be so much higher. There's just no logic or sense in your statement. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Michael Arck 5902	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:29:00 - [41] - Quote Wait a minute So they will be implementing respecs for AUR? There's a good part and a bad part to that. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2253	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:30:00 - [42] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: We win GG no RE I like this I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Foley Jones Huogikku Corporation Heiian Conglomerate 681	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:31:00 - [43] - Quote Welp, i could give less of a **** if it was added Gratz on your victory guys o/ MY SP BRINGS ALL THE MERCS TO THE CHANNEL AND THEY ARE LIKE "Do you wanna squad up?" DAMN RIGHT I WANNA SQUAD UP
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2253	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:36:00 - [44] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: No, this mean everybody loses. Well, every dust player at least. Explain yourself, please. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Jack McReady Dust University Ivy League 1543	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:38:00 - [45] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: No, this mean everybody loses. Well, every dust player at least. Explain yourself, please. he means that everyone is going for AV to hunt your vehicles and you will flood the forum with huge amount of tears which will shut down server
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2253	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:39:00 - [46] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: No, this mean everybody loses. Well, every dust player at least. I can't help but agree. All that is happening is the switch from dust as a free to play game to a pay to win game. Allowing players to redefine the skill points they have is hardly different than allowing players to earn additional skill points (via boosters) for AUR. And unlike the latter, this has a cost penalty to use it: You lose ISK every time you do it, since you don't get a full refund on skill books. I am generally against respecs (particularly free ones with no penalty), but this isn't pay to win. CCP has done a good job avoiding that, and the CPM will help ensure they stay on point with that. Let Rattati know that a 3-6 month waiting period in between respecs might be something he could look into. He didn't respond to that yesterday, so I figure the CPM would have a better chance of letting them know. It would help avoid guys with a bunch of money to burn on the game to respec every week, or every single time a new flavor of the weak is discovered. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4279	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:44:00 - [47] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Let Rattati know that a 3-6 month waiting period in between respecs might be something he could look into. 6 months is a bit extreme, but having a 60 - 90 day cooldown timer on respecs would be acceptable to deter abuse. On the flip side, if players are allowed to respec whenever they want that just means more money for CCP. If balancing remains a high priority then FotM fittings will not completely ruin the game. SP is able to be earned much faster so even players who can't afford respecs will have an easier time speccing into new playstyles. My advice to you, playa...
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4452	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:44:00 - [48] - Quote Time limits were definitely discussed. Note that respeccing every week would steadily eat their ISK, and Rattati is aggressively pursuing nerfs to FOTMs. I think boosters (particularly with their new ability to stack) should generally be a smarter choice for people wishing to spec into new things frequently as well, and help mitigate the benefits of frequent respec use. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Michael Arck 5902	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:50:00 - [49] - Quote But wouldnt the respecs bring cause to unnecessary but necessary nerf due to increased usage activity of an items, which creates a kaleidoscope of variance that impacts the landscape of Dust? FOTM chasing is a strong issue here. Or is it that no one longer cares and we are just allowing anything like its the hostile world of Mad Max? Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4455	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:52:00 - [50] - Quote Michael, what is the current FOTM? How much stronger is it than the next strongest fit? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4280	Posted - 2014.10.29 15:54:00 - [51] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: But wouldnt the respecs bring cause to unnecessary but necessary nerf due to increased usage activity of an items, which creates a kaleidoscope of variance that impacts the landscape of Dust? FOTM chasing is a strong issue here. Or is it that no one longer cares and we are just allowing anything like its the hostile world of Mad Max? Balancing, true balancing, means looking at things like K/D ratios of certain weapons at specific ranges. It doesn't matter if hundreds of thousands of players are using a weapon or fitting, so long as that weapon or fitting is performing within the tolerance for its design. For example, let's pretend the RR was lethal at 5m, 10m, 15m and 20m+. The RR was always intended to be a long range infantry rifle that performs poorly at close ranges. Therefore, it was balanced to be less effective in CQC. Months later, 90% of the playerbase is using RR, but data indicates that they aren't killing players inside of 10m. This means the RR is working as intended. The "meta" of Dust is just causing the RR to be popular. An opportunistic player would start running CQC fittings to kill those RR fittings. Beating them with the RR's weakness. I hope that makes some sense. My advice to you, playa...
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2255	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:03:00 - [52] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Wait a minute So they will be implementing respecs for AUR? There's a good part and a bad part to that. You're only just now realizing that? It was in the 1.9 dev blog. A lot of people were commenting about it on the 1.9 thread as well. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Michael Arck 5902	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:03:00 - [53] - Quote There is no such thing as true balance. It cannot be achieved because few are good with a controller and majority are not. If a player masters his weapon loadout, then he is penalized for "true balance" which basically means, "you're too good at what you do and we must nerf the loadout to compensate for others" Yet this is the conundrum. Once he moves on to something else, the nerf bat will swing again. So we should do away with saying "true balance" or "perfect balance". Dust 514 stalled in growth because of many reasons, one being the hunt for "true balance". It simply cannot be obtained unless we're implementing microchips into Dust players brains to keep them at even keel. Alas, we are caught in a whirlwind of nerfs and buffs. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2255	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:04:00 - [54] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: No, this mean everybody loses. Well, every dust player at least. Explain yourself, please. he means that everyone is going for AV to hunt your vehicles and you will flood the forum with huge amount of tears which will shut down server AV is already easy enough. I can nearly one-shot an armor tank with base HP with the PRO breach forge with a Min sentinel and proficiency 3. Get a Cal sentinel and proficiency 5, and it will be done. But, people don't want to wait for that perfect opportunity. They take the first available shot, then complain when someone with a brain escapes them. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Michael Arck 5902	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:05:00 - [55] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Wait a minute So they will be implementing respecs for AUR? There's a good part and a bad part to that. You're only just now realizing that? It was in the 1.9 dev blog. A lot of people were commenting about it on the 1.9 thread as well. Yes Im only realizing it. I havent been on the forums for quite a while. I just heard a 1.9 is coming. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4458	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:06:00 - [56] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: There is no such thing as true balance. It cannot be achieved because few are good with a controller and majority are not. If a player masters his weapon loadout, then he is penalized for "true balance" which basically means, "you're too good at what you do and we must nerf the loadout to compensate for others" Yet this is the conundrum. Once he moves on to something else, the nerf bat will swing again. So we should do away with saying "true balance" or "perfect balance". Dust 514 stalled in growth because of many reasons, one being the hunt for "true balance". It simply cannot be obtained unless we're implementing microchips into Dust players brains to keep them at even keel. Alas, we are caught in a whirlwind of nerfs and buffs. Perfect balance is impossible to achieve, and nerfs and buffs will always happen. I agree. However, balance has come much closer than it used to be. Differences between over- and under- performing fits will be smaller, and balance changes should be more nuanced. This, combined with higher SP gain, and an AUR cost on the respec, should greatly reduce both the appeal and effectiveness of respecs. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4281	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:09:00 - [57] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Dust 514 stalled in growth because of many reasons, one being the hunt for "true balance". a¦á_a¦á ...Dust 514 has experienced some of the largest periods of player retention and growth in it's life since CCP Rattati began balancing things. My advice to you, playa...
Michael Arck 5902	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:09:00 - [58] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Michael, what is the current FOTM? How much stronger is it than the next strongest fit? I honestly cannot answer that because I havent played for a long time except for yesterday. Let me reword it. Heres an example. Players respec. 75 percent skills into RRs. We all know (or should know) RRs are weak, just effective in mainly pubs. Yet the increase of usage causes GD to react. Because of Rattati's direction of pursuing FOTM discouraging by way of nerfing, RR is nerfed again. Mainstay users render it useless. Respec buyers just buy another respec and the process begins again. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4460	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:11:00 - [59] - Quote Michael, Rattati's primary statistic for balance is not forum whining. You may wish to check the post he made today, it has pretty graphs and charts and explains a lot about the balance process. :) CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Michael Arck 5902	Posted - 2014.10.29 16:13:00 - [60] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Dust 514 stalled in growth because of many reasons, one being the hunt for "true balance". a¦á_a¦á ...Dust 514 has experienced some of the largest periods of player retention and growth in it's life since CCP Rattati began balancing things. That is a side opinion and it doesnt address what Im saying. If the balance was true now even after all his work (no offense Rattati), Judge wouldnt be pissed about the ADS and nerf talks wouldnt still be happening on GD. You cannot obtain true balance. Its either players are going to suck it up or others are going to complain. That is always the case and for that reason alone, true balance will never be achieved. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain



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