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CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2070	Posted - 2014.10.22 05:49:00 - [1] - Quote I've been running the Gallente scout since the chromosome build so don't think that I am some ignorant heavy or something here. Lets be honest, it looks as if around 50% of the suits bought on a daily basis are scouts - this correlates to what most people see and complain about in game. I tell you with little doubt in my mind, passive scans are the main factor in this equation. Maybe we should totally remove passive scans. I do realise this would mean scout bonuses would have to be looked at but as it stands having the ability to see everything through permanent scans and the ability to use the cloak (an assault cloak as the Judge would say) must be why everyone is choosing the scout for what ever role they desire. So what are your thoughts on totally removing the passive scans from the game? (Does anyone have better ideas?) "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 4194	Posted - 2014.10.22 06:05:00 - [2] - Quote Shared scans would be a logi only thing Scout bonuses would only effect the mods not the suit Caldari get precision bonus and loose dampening bonus Gallente loose precision bonus All scouts but the Amarr loose recent stamina buffs Amarr looses precision bonus and gains range amplifier bonus Matar scout stays unchanged Gallente scout can only be undetectable with 4 damps in the lows(cloak not needed) Adjust everything to above statement Pyramid leveling of ewar from light to medium to heavy with a 10m difference for range with logi being closer to scouts ewar and commando being closer to an assaults. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
X7 lion Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 357	Posted - 2014.10.22 06:08:00 - [3] - Quote what if, only logi passives where shared out and scouts had no passive scans while cloaked. Do not contribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance. being contradictory is not the same as being offensive.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2070	Posted - 2014.10.22 06:11:00 - [4] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Shared scans would be a logi only thing Scout bonuses would only effect the mods not the suit Caldari get precision bonus and loose dampening bonus Gallente loose precision bonus All scouts but the Amarr loose recent stamina buffs Amarr looses precision bonus and gains range amplifier bonus Matar scout stays unchanged Gallente scout can only be undetectable with 4 damps in the lows(cloak not needed) Adjust everything to above statement Pyramid leveling of ewar from light to medium to heavy with a 10m difference for range with logi being closer to scouts ewar and commando being closer to an assaults. Some of those things I like, others not so much. I still feel that removing passive scans all together would be a lot better for the health of the game. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 4194	Posted - 2014.10.22 06:12:00 - [5] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Shared scans would be a logi only thing Scout bonuses would only effect the mods not the suit Caldari get precision bonus and loose dampening bonus Gallente loose precision bonus All scouts but the Amarr loose recent stamina buffs Amarr looses precision bonus and gains range amplifier bonus Matar scout stays unchanged Gallente scout can only be undetectable with 4 damps in the lows(cloak not needed) Adjust everything to above statement Pyramid leveling of ewar from light to medium to heavy with a 10m difference for range with logi being closer to scouts ewar and commando being closer to an assaults. Some of those things I like, others not so much. I still feel that removing passive scans all together would be a lot better for the health of the game. Liiiike? (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2070	Posted - 2014.10.22 06:12:00 - [6] - Quote X7 lion wrote: what if, only logi passives where shared out and scouts had no passive scans while cloaked. forget that I miss read. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2070	Posted - 2014.10.22 06:15:00 - [7] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Shared scans would be a logi only thing Scout bonuses would only effect the mods not the suit Caldari get precision bonus and loose dampening bonus Gallente loose precision bonus All scouts but the Amarr loose recent stamina buffs Amarr looses precision bonus and gains range amplifier bonus Matar scout stays unchanged Gallente scout can only be undetectable with 4 damps in the lows(cloak not needed) Adjust everything to above statement Pyramid leveling of ewar from light to medium to heavy with a 10m difference for range with logi being closer to scouts ewar and commando being closer to an assaults. Some of those things I like, others not so much. I still feel that removing passive scans all together would be a lot better for the health of the game. Liiiike? Well TLDR - everyone will still flock to scouts. I appreciate you are trying to make things a little more fair but as long as passive scans are in the game I dont see how we can reverse the mass scout problem. I mean is it passives that make the scout so appealing? (Obviously the cloak is also a huge factor) Your proposals would not stop scouts from being the go to all around jack of all trades suits. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 4194	Posted - 2014.10.22 06:25:00 - [8] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Shared scans would be a logi only thing Scout bonuses would only effect the mods not the suit Caldari get precision bonus and loose dampening bonus Gallente loose precision bonus All scouts but the Amarr loose recent stamina buffs Amarr looses precision bonus and gains range amplifier bonus Matar scout stays unchanged Gallente scout can only be undetectable with 4 damps in the lows(cloak not needed) Adjust everything to above statement Pyramid leveling of ewar from light to medium to heavy with a 10m difference for range with logi being closer to scouts ewar and commando being closer to an assaults. Some of those things I like, others not so much. I still feel that removing passive scans all together would be a lot better for the health of the game. Liiiike? Well TLDR - everyone will still flock to scouts. I appreciate you are trying to make things a little more fair but as long as passive scans are in the game I dont see how we can reverse the mass scout problem. I mean is it passives that make the scout so appealing? (Obviously the cloak is also a huge factor) Your proposals would not stop scouts from being the go to all around jack of all trades suits. It's not being seen that makes them desirable, and with my proposals it would require a gallente scout to fill up all his/her lows with damps to not be detected by anything which makes them paper thin. And the idea of logistics only passives helps fully define their support role so in the end you have a big majority of scannable scouts (big ol buff for scanners buut I suggest an ever longer cool down.. Maybe) that are either tank-ish or paper thin tissues that brake at the breeze of the wind. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2070	Posted - 2014.10.22 06:37:00 - [9] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Shared scans would be a logi only thing Scout bonuses would only effect the mods not the suit Caldari get precision bonus and loose dampening bonus Gallente loose precision bonus All scouts but the Amarr loose recent stamina buffs Amarr looses precision bonus and gains range amplifier bonus Matar scout stays unchanged Gallente scout can only be undetectable with 4 damps in the lows(cloak not needed) Adjust everything to above statement Pyramid leveling of ewar from light to medium to heavy with a 10m difference for range with logi being closer to scouts ewar and commando being closer to an assaults. Some of those things I like, others not so much. I still feel that removing passive scans all together would be a lot better for the health of the game. Liiiike? Well TLDR - everyone will still flock to scouts. I appreciate you are trying to make things a little more fair but as long as passive scans are in the game I dont see how we can reverse the mass scout problem. I mean is it passives that make the scout so appealing? (Obviously the cloak is also a huge factor) Your proposals would not stop scouts from being the go to all around jack of all trades suits. It's not being seen that makes them desirable, and with my proposals it would require a gallente scout to fill up all his/her lows with damps to not be detected by anything which makes them paper thin. And the idea of logistics only passives helps fully define their support role so in the end you have a big majority of scannable scouts (big ol buff for scanners buut I suggest an ever longer cool down.. Maybe) that are either tank-ish or paper thin tissues that brake at the breeze of the wind. Yea for sure, not being seen was the reason I speced into them myself a long time ago. Though back then we didn't have cloaks and I am pretty sure passives were no where near as powerful as they are these days. I just miss the days where being a scout and being stealthy was something the player did, not what a module or cloak did..... if you see what I mean? Still I do like the idea of logistics offering considerable ewar if ewar (aka passive scans) continues to be a thing. I just really want every role to be totally useful and viable on as many maps as possible. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3970	Posted - 2014.10.22 06:53:00 - [10] - Quote Let's not forget that changes done to scouts, should be in correlation with the other frames' as well. For example, changing the scout bonuses to module efficiency should require an assault to use a module to make use of their modules (assuming they have any available, which they don't). Removing passive scans totally removes the "scout" out of the role, as much as shared passive scans do. This said, instead of having two bonuses (i.e. range and dampening) all scouts should have only one (except the Minmatar because hacking and knifing isn't as useful as a about as EWAR). In other words, I agree with Nocturnal Soul's view on this. Caldari Precision, Gallente Dampening, Amarr Range, and Minmatar Hack and Slash (see what I did there?). Larger frame scan radius buff from 10 to 15 would be nice (15 to 20m for Logistics) with Logistics getting 3 points in precision less (between scout and assault) and the Commandos getting the precision between assaults and sentinels, another great suggestion from Soul. Giving Commandos a slight speed buff would be great, too, but this is a scout thread. Removing scans from the game would basically remove the need and actual usability of scouts since they would try to mimic assaults and have less armor anyways. One could say, "B- but, Joel! Scouts have their fast speed H4X!" The Minmatar Assault is also fast, and is able to tank much better than a scout. Also, they get a bonus to the CR - the favored weapon of tanked scouts. In other words, removing scans from the game is a big NO, as there are better solutions to the scout role. Will it stop scouts from wearing plates and extenders? Probably not, but no one ever talks about a sentinel stacking all dampeners, either so the double standard kind of kicks in and invalidates all reasoning behind these type of threads. TL;DR Removing scans is no. Properly trying to balance scouts is yes. Caldari - Precision Gallente - Dampening Minmatar - Hack and Slash Amarr - Range

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1976	Posted - 2014.10.22 06:56:00 - [11] - Quote Increase scout profile by 5dB. I don't mind a proto scout being unscannable, but he better make a hefty sacrifice to do it. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2071	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:07:00 - [12] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Let's not forget that changes done to scouts, should be in correlation with the other frames' as well. For example, changing the scout bonuses to module efficiency should require an assault to use a module to make use of their modules (assuming they have any available, which they don't). Removing passive scans totally removes the "scout" out of the role, as much as shared passive scans do. This said, instead of having two bonuses (i.e. range and dampening) all scouts should have only one (except the Minmatar because hacking and knifing isn't as useful as a about as EWAR). In other words, I agree with Nocturnal Soul's view on this. Caldari Precision, Gallente Dampening, Amarr Range, and Minmatar Hack and Slash (see what I did there?). Larger frame scan radius buff from 10 to 15 would be nice (15 to 20m for Logistics) with Logistics getting 3 points in precision less (between scout and assault) and the Commandos getting the precision between assaults and sentinels, another great suggestion from Soul. Giving Commandos a slight speed buff would be great, too, but this is a scout thread. Removing scans from the game would basically remove the need and actual usability of scouts since they would try to mimic assaults and have less armor anyways. One could say, "B- but, Joel! Scouts have their fast speed H4X!" The Minmatar Assault is also fast, and is able to tank much better than a scout. Also, they get a bonus to the CR - the favored weapon of tanked scouts. In other words, removing scans from the game is a big NO, as there are better solutions to the scout role. Will it stop scouts from wearing plates and extenders? Probably not, but no one ever talks about a sentinel stacking all dampeners, either so the double standard kind of kicks in and invalidates all reasoning behind these type of threads. TL;DR Removing scans is no. Properly trying to balance scouts is yes. Caldari - Precision Gallente - Dampening Minmatar - Hack and Slash Amarr - Range Ha nice post man, I like the hack and slash bit. I disagree that scans is all a scout is good for. Scouting should be something verbal or at least something that has to be done ingame (spotting enemy locations if not verbally communicated on comms - then through waypoints in game like a squad leader can do for instance.) Scouting is about seeing what the enemy has and where is its location. Its about thinking about what you are doing, where you are going. Getting 'eyes on' the enemy. Not letting computers do all of the work for you. I guess I am bias about this. I also am not a fan of your scenario with a heavy stacking damps. A dampend stacked heavy is still scanable. I mean are we talking a Caldari heavy with its one lowslot? Even a proto Amarr heavy with 4x Proto dampeners still only gets 25.26 dB. Most assault fit scouts passives will see that, let alone scanners or focused passive scan scout fits. Dampening a heavy suit is almost pointless. Where as stacking tank on a scout is not. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Llast 326 An Arkhos 4965	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:11:00 - [13] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: I've been running the Gallente scout since the chromosome build so don't think that I am some ignorant heavy or something here. Lets be honest, it looks as if around 50% of the suits bought on a daily basis are scouts - this correlates to what most people see and complain about in game. I tell you with little doubt in my mind, passive scans are the main factor in this equation. Maybe we should totally remove passive scans. I do realise this would mean scout bonuses would have to be looked at but as it stands having the ability to see everything through permanent scans and the ability to use the cloak (an assault cloak as the Judge would say) must be why everyone is choosing the scout for what ever role they desire. So what are your thoughts on totally removing the passive scans from the game? (Does anyone have better ideas?) This was what I thought but sadly CCP Rattati wrote: Llast 326 wrote: You know what I would like to see in 1.9 Remove shared passiveGÇª it's to powerful but also Removal of the direction indicator on TacNetGÇª just give a dot. I agree with both, yet we are not able to for 1.9. KRRROOOOOOM
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact Gentlemen's.Club 5563	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:13:00 - [14] - Quote you don't really even have to guess that scouts are 50% of the daily buy, the market data is released by CCP so it can be tracked. http://dust.thang.dk/market_tryhardinator.php Around 49.8% of the most commonly purchased dropsuits are scouts of some sort. EVE 21 Day Trial Templar BPOs 350Mil ISK
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2074	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:21:00 - [15] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: you don't really even have to guess that scouts are 50% of the daily buy, the market data is released by CCP so it can be tracked. http://dust.thang.dk/market_tryhardinator.php Around 49.8% of the most commonly purchased dropsuits are scouts of some sort. Nice! Who ever made that website is an internet god! "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3972	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:22:00 - [16] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Joel II X wrote: Let's not forget that changes done to scouts, should be in correlation with the other frames' as well. For example, changing the scout bonuses to module efficiency should require an assault to use a module to make use of their modules (assuming they have any available, which they don't). Removing passive scans totally removes the "scout" out of the role, as much as shared passive scans do. This said, instead of having two bonuses (i.e. range and dampening) all scouts should have only one (except the Minmatar because hacking and knifing isn't as useful as a about as EWAR). In other words, I agree with Nocturnal Soul's view on this. Caldari Precision, Gallente Dampening, Amarr Range, and Minmatar Hack and Slash (see what I did there?). Larger frame scan radius buff from 10 to 15 would be nice (15 to 20m for Logistics) with Logistics getting 3 points in precision less (between scout and assault) and the Commandos getting the precision between assaults and sentinels, another great suggestion from Soul. Giving Commandos a slight speed buff would be great, too, but this is a scout thread. Removing scans from the game would basically remove the need and actual usability of scouts since they would try to mimic assaults and have less armor anyways. One could say, "B- but, Joel! Scouts have their fast speed H4X!" The Minmatar Assault is also fast, and is able to tank much better than a scout. Also, they get a bonus to the CR - the favored weapon of tanked scouts. In other words, removing scans from the game is a big NO, as there are better solutions to the scout role. Will it stop scouts from wearing plates and extenders? Probably not, but no one ever talks about a sentinel stacking all dampeners, either so the double standard kind of kicks in and invalidates all reasoning behind these type of threads. TL;DR Removing scans is no. Properly trying to balance scouts is yes. Caldari - Precision Gallente - Dampening Minmatar - Hack and Slash Amarr - Range Ha nice post man, I like the hack and slash bit. I disagree that scans is all a scout is good for. Scouting should be something verbal or at least something that has to be done ingame (spotting enemy locations if not verbally communicated on comms - then through waypoints in game like a squad leader can do for instance.) Scouting is about seeing what the enemy has and where is its location. Its about thinking about what you are doing, where you are going. Getting 'eyes on' the enemy. Not letting computers do all of the work for you. I guess I am bias about this. I also am not a fan of your scenario with a heavy stacking damps. A dampend stacked heavy is still scanable. I mean are we talking a Caldari heavy with its one lowslot? Even a proto Amarr heavy with 4x Proto dampeners still only gets 25.26 dB. Most assault fit scouts passives will see that, let alone scanners or focused passive scan scout fits. Dampening a heavy suit is almost pointless. Where as stacking tank on a scout is not. Haven't really thought about verbal communication being part of the role. Glad you brought that up. If scouting would only be effective via Voice Communication, then you're basically shifting the scouts to the "fast knife guys that are weak" type of play for those who don't have mics. You'd be limiting a large portion of the playerbase to frames and specializations outside of the scout in terms of usefulness. As for your comment on the bias towards the tanked scout vs damped heavy, I'll have you know I told my heavy friend to stealth tank and he got by no problem. The only one who saw him were scouts (like you said) and almost no one carries scanners anymore so that wasn't a problem, either. On the other hand, when I've tried tanking my scout, I've underperformed. Probably because I wasn't used to it, so the outcomes of both our situations seemed staged (you know, too try to prove my point). Heavy was in a Sentinel Ak.0, so he had 4 ADV dampeners. Either way, though, I still see it as a double standard, and unless I see enough proof instead of anecdotes (including my own), I won't be changing my view on it. Anyways, as another scout balancing post, I also want CPU/PG nerfed on them, along with the removal of an equipment slot. Before the cloak was introduced, I figured it was necessary, but now... eh, not so much. It's a gimmick.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2074	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:28:00 - [17] - Quote Joel II X wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Joel II X wrote: Let's not forget that changes done to scouts, should be in correlation with the other frames' as well. For example, changing the scout bonuses to module efficiency should require an assault to use a module to make use of their modules (assuming they have any available, which they don't). Removing passive scans totally removes the "scout" out of the role, as much as shared passive scans do. This said, instead of having two bonuses (i.e. range and dampening) all scouts should have only one (except the Minmatar because hacking and knifing isn't as useful as a about as EWAR). In other words, I agree with Nocturnal Soul's view on this. Caldari Precision, Gallente Dampening, Amarr Range, and Minmatar Hack and Slash (see what I did there?). Larger frame scan radius buff from 10 to 15 would be nice (15 to 20m for Logistics) with Logistics getting 3 points in precision less (between scout and assault) and the Commandos getting the precision between assaults and sentinels, another great suggestion from Soul. Giving Commandos a slight speed buff would be great, too, but this is a scout thread. Removing scans from the game would basically remove the need and actual usability of scouts since they would try to mimic assaults and have less armor anyways. One could say, "B- but, Joel! Scouts have their fast speed H4X!" The Minmatar Assault is also fast, and is able to tank much better than a scout. Also, they get a bonus to the CR - the favored weapon of tanked scouts. In other words, removing scans from the game is a big NO, as there are better solutions to the scout role. Will it stop scouts from wearing plates and extenders? Probably not, but no one ever talks about a sentinel stacking all dampeners, either so the double standard kind of kicks in and invalidates all reasoning behind these type of threads. TL;DR Removing scans is no. Properly trying to balance scouts is yes. Caldari - Precision Gallente - Dampening Minmatar - Hack and Slash Amarr - Range Ha nice post man, I like the hack and slash bit. I disagree that scans is all a scout is good for. Scouting should be something verbal or at least something that has to be done ingame (spotting enemy locations if not verbally communicated on comms - then through waypoints in game like a squad leader can do for instance.) Scouting is about seeing what the enemy has and where is its location. Its about thinking about what you are doing, where you are going. Getting 'eyes on' the enemy. Not letting computers do all of the work for you. I guess I am bias about this. I also am not a fan of your scenario with a heavy stacking damps. A dampend stacked heavy is still scanable. I mean are we talking a Caldari heavy with its one lowslot? Even a proto Amarr heavy with 4x Proto dampeners still only gets 25.26 dB. Most assault fit scouts passives will see that, let alone scanners or focused passive scan scout fits. Dampening a heavy suit is almost pointless. Where as stacking tank on a scout is not. Haven't really thought about verbal communication being part of the role. Glad you brought that up. If scouting would only be effective via Voice Communication, then you're basically shifting the scouts to the "fast knife guys that are weak" type of play for those who don't have mics. You'd be limiting a large portion of the playerbase to frames and specializations outside of the scout in terms of usefulness. As for your comment on the bias towards the tanked scout vs damped heavy, I'll have you know I told my heavy friend to stealth tank and he got by no problem. The only one who saw him were scouts (like you said) and almost no one carries scanners anymore so that wasn't a problem, either. On the other hand, when I've tried tanking my scout, I've underperformed. Probably because I wasn't used to it, so the outcomes of both our situations seemed staged (you know, too try to prove my point). Heavy was in a Sentinel Ak.0, so he had 4 ADV dampeners. Either way, though, I still see it as a double standard, and unless I see enough proof instead of anecdotes (including my own), I won't be changing my view on it. Anyways, as another scout balancing post, I also want CPU/PG nerfed on them, along with the removal of an equipment slot. Before the cloak was introduced, I figured it was necessary, but now... eh, not so much. It's a gimmick. I like you, you have good ideas and actually give me a lot to think about in all honestly. I suppose everything is very subject to what is going on in a particular battle. For sure some battles there are medium suits galore, others tons of heavys and not much in the way of scouts or logis with scanner etc... I am always trying to think of the bigger generalist picture. I was actually a little surprised that a dampened Amarr heavy could actually beat some passives and almost all scanners (actually beats even proto scanners except the focused! ) "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 790	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:31:00 - [18] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: So what are your thoughts on totally removing the passive scans from the game? (Does anyone have better ideas?) I just posted this in a different thread, but it seems to fit better over here: I like that the wall-hack exists and I like sharing passive scans, but I think the range is just much too long. In 1.7 range was at a base-value of 15 meters with up to 25% bonus from the GalScout skill, I believe. These days we have 20 meters with a 50% bonus from CalScout. My lvl-3 GalScout in 1.7 completely rocked the boat solely due to it's ~50m scans. Having ~350 hp and a GEK (no sidearm, nanohive as equipment) surely didn't make me jump from a 1.8 to 3.0 kdr by itself. I'd start by reducing base scan range back to 15 meters for scouts. Maybe tone down the CalScout skill bonus too, but that's a secondary. Also there's a bit here where we can ultimately disable a mechanic or try to tune it down beforehand. I'm in favor of trying to adjust it before pulling a "Marauder" on it.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 155	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:48:00 - [19] - Quote There are so many factors assault cloak for one which is the largest of the issues which is being addressed with a cloak nerf and (then probably another cloak nerf) thanks to the player bases don't nerf me bro. I don't use the cloak and only use sidearms so the changes wouldn't/will not effect me in any way, but I am positive that side arms only would address assault scouts 100% and in turn all scouts would fit things to benefit the scout class while leaving the play style in full effect. Now you guys are looking at a nerfs that threatens all cloaked play... good job dimwits. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3972	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:49:00 - [20] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Joel II X wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Joel II X wrote: Let's not forget that changes done to scouts, should be in correlation with the other frames' as well. For example, changing the scout bonuses to module efficiency should require an assault to use a module to make use of their modules (assuming they have any available, which they don't). Removing passive scans totally removes the "scout" out of the role, as much as shared passive scans do. This said, instead of having two bonuses (i.e. range and dampening) all scouts should have only one (except the Minmatar because hacking and knifing isn't as useful as a about as EWAR). In other words, I agree with Nocturnal Soul's view on this. Caldari Precision, Gallente Dampening, Amarr Range, and Minmatar Hack and Slash (see what I did there?). Larger frame scan radius buff from 10 to 15 would be nice (15 to 20m for Logistics) with Logistics getting 3 points in precision less (between scout and assault) and the Commandos getting the precision between assaults and sentinels, another great suggestion from Soul. Giving Commandos a slight speed buff would be great, too, but this is a scout thread. Removing scans from the game would basically remove the need and actual usability of scouts since they would try to mimic assaults and have less armor anyways. One could say, "B- but, Joel! Scouts have their fast speed H4X!" The Minmatar Assault is also fast, and is able to tank much better than a scout. Also, they get a bonus to the CR - the favored weapon of tanked scouts. In other words, removing scans from the game is a big NO, as there are better solutions to the scout role. Will it stop scouts from wearing plates and extenders? Probably not, but no one ever talks about a sentinel stacking all dampeners, either so the double standard kind of kicks in and invalidates all reasoning behind these type of threads. TL;DR Removing scans is no. Properly trying to balance scouts is yes. Caldari - Precision Gallente - Dampening Minmatar - Hack and Slash Amarr - Range Ha nice post man, I like the hack and slash bit. I disagree that scans is all a scout is good for. Scouting should be something verbal or at least something that has to be done ingame (spotting enemy locations if not verbally communicated on comms - then through waypoints in game like a squad leader can do for instance.) Scouting is about seeing what the enemy has and where is its location. Its about thinking about what you are doing, where you are going. Getting 'eyes on' the enemy. Not letting computers do all of the work for you. I guess I am bias about this. I also am not a fan of your scenario with a heavy stacking damps. A dampend stacked heavy is still scanable. I mean are we talking a Caldari heavy with its one lowslot? Even a proto Amarr heavy with 4x Proto dampeners still only gets 25.26 dB. Most assault fit scouts passives will see that, let alone scanners or focused passive scan scout fits. Dampening a heavy suit is almost pointless. Where as stacking tank on a scout is not. Haven't really thought about verbal communication being part of the role. Glad you brought that up. If scouting would only be effective via Voice Communication, then you're basically shifting the scouts to the "fast knife guys that are weak" type of play for those who don't have mics. You'd be limiting a large portion of the playerbase to frames and specializations outside of the scout in terms of usefulness. As for your comment on the bias towards the tanked scout vs damped heavy, I'll have you know I told my heavy friend to stealth tank and he got by no problem. The only one who saw him were scouts (like you said) and almost no one carries scanners anymore so that wasn't a problem, either. On the other hand, when I've tried tanking my scout, I've underperformed. Probably because I wasn't used to it, so the outcomes of both our situations seemed staged (you know, too try to prove my point). Heavy was in a Sentinel Ak.0, so he had 4 ADV dampeners. Either way, though, I still see it as a double standard, and unless I see enough proof instead of anecdotes (including my own), I won't be changing my view on it. Anyways, as another scout balancing post, I also want CPU/PG nerfed on them, along with the removal of an equipment slot. Before the cloak was introduced, I figured it was necessary, but now... eh, not so much. It's a gimmick. I like you, you have good ideas and actually give me a lot to think about in all honestly. I suppose everything is very subject to what is going on in a particular battle. For sure some battles there are medium suits galore, others tons of heavys and not much in the way of scouts or logis with scanner etc... I am always trying to think of the bigger generalist picture. I was actually a little surprised that a dampened Amarr heavy could actually beat some passives and almost all scanners (actually beats even proto scanners except the focused! ) Does it? Haha, nice! When balancing stuff, I try to view changes from every angle and whether it'll be fair to one party, but not the other. These threads are good, but then there's that one guy asking for a nerf and not listening to reason while being rude. I don't mind being wrong, but I mind manners. Thanks for the compliment, though. Here: take my like.

Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 622	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:57:00 - [21] - Quote I don't think passive scans themselves are the problem, I think their strength is a problem. A big one. Without any module assistance, they are already many times more powerful that the scanning that active scanners provided prior to their nerf. With modules, they can be hundreds of times more effective than them. You read that right. Remember, Active Scannners were considered to be very overpowered by a majority of the player base prior to their meganerf. But somehow, passive scans that are many times more powerful are less of a problem? I think not. Passive scans need to be hit pretty ******* hard with the Nerf sledge if you ask me, at least as long as Active Scanners are considered to be balanced... -Module Bonuses for Scouts, no more suit bonuses for Ewar. No more relying on base scans to do the work while HP modules are used to make slay suits. -Less base Scanning for Scouts, still the best at it at base level, but not by much. They will need to use modules to actually make any use of their scans. Their slots should be dominated by range extenders and presicion enhancers if they want good scans. At most, Passive scans should reach 40m, and should never dip below 24Db precision, on any scout suit. This may require scan module nerfs. -No more shared passive scans, at least not all the time. This needs to be the defining difference between Active and Passive Scans. Actives will share with the entire squad, regardless of their distance from the scanner. Passive scans will only share info with the squad if the squad member is within the scan range of the scan. A passive scan that has a range of 30m will only share that info with the squad if the members are within 30m from the user. Swag-suit4lyfe!
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2077	Posted - 2014.10.22 08:05:00 - [22] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: I don't think passive scans themselves are the problem, I think their strength is a problem. A big one. Without any module assistance, they are already many times more powerful that the scanning that active scanners provided prior to their nerf. With modules, they can be hundreds of times more effective than them. You read that right. Remember, Active Scannners were considered to be very overpowered by a majority of the player base prior to their meganerf. But somehow, passive scans that are many times more powerful are less of a problem? I think not. Passive scans need to be hit pretty ***** hard with the Nerf sledge if you ask me, at least as long as Active Scanners are considered to be balanced... -Module Bonuses for Scouts, no more suit bonuses for Ewar. No more relying on base scans to do the work while HP modules are used to make slay suits. -Less base Scanning for Scouts, still the best at it at base level, but not by much. They will need to use modules to actually make any use of their scans. Their slots should be dominated by range extenders and presicion enhancers if they want good scans. At most, Passive scans should reach 40m, and should never dip below 24Db precision, on any scout suit. This may require scan module nerfs. -No more shared passive scans, at least not all the time. This needs to be the defining difference between Active and Passive Scans. Actives will share with the entire squad, regardless of their distance from the scanner. Passive scans will only share info with the squad if the squad member is within the scan range of the scan. A passive scan that has a range of 30m will only share that info with the squad if the members are within 30m from the user. I like it. I could go into detail about this but just to play devils advocate here - why not save CCP and ourselves a lot of work, totally remove passives and then focus on making active scanners the only form of scanning? Otherwise I do agree with you and I also think we should look towards giving logistics a decent backbone of ewar perhaps. Honestly I would just love to hear what CCP thinks about all of this. What do they envisage when making this game? "Also I think knives are a good idea, big fk-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Varoth Drac Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 298	Posted - 2014.10.22 08:08:00 - [23] - Quote Couple of corrections first. A sentinel with 4 dampeners will avoid the scans of pretty much all "assault fit scouts". Secondly, in 1.7 scout base scan range was 16m and Galente scouts had a +50% bonus. I don't think shared passive scans should be removed as they generally benefit non-scouts and give scouts (and logis) an EWAR support role other than active scanners. You could dial scout passives back to 16m but I'd rather they didn't. Increasing the range opened up EWAR as an interesting gameplay and fitting element. I'd rather they reduce medium suit profile a bit so they can damp easily if they want to, say 45db. This avoids the real issue though, which I believe to be hp mods. The fact they give a flat numerical bonus rather than a percentage, coupled with scouts small hitbox and high speed, make stacking hp disproportionately effective on scouts. Look at the linked tryhardinator, all the suggested mods are hp (apart from 1 rep mod). If CCP want to nerf scouts more (considering the 1.9 cloak nerf), they should introduce harsher penalties for scouts stacking hp. Maybe double or triple the speed and regen penalties, and add a ferroscale speed penalty. Maybe more than this. I don't see any problem with scouts having their inherent advantages as long as they maintain their inherent disadvantages aswell (proportionally low hp, not just a bit lower).
hold that Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 294	Posted - 2014.10.22 08:18:00 - [24] - Quote more like 70% there was a good idea said by someone who said remove passive wall hack scans. meaning red dots will still show up on the tacnet or map, but if there is a wall in your way you can't see the red dot through it on your screen. active scanners still get the wall hack.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 113	Posted - 2014.10.22 08:19:00 - [25] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: I've been running the Gallente scout since the chromosome build so don't think that I am some ignorant heavy or something here. Lets be honest, it looks as if around 50% of the suits bought on a daily basis are scouts - this correlates to what most people see and complain about in game. I tell you with little doubt in my mind, passive scans are the main factor in this equation. Maybe we should totally remove passive scans. I do realise this would mean scout bonuses would have to be looked at but as it stands having the ability to see everything through permanent scans and the ability to use the cloak (an assault cloak as the Judge would say) must be why everyone is choosing the scout for what ever role they desire. So what are your thoughts on totally removing the passive scans from the game? (Does anyone have better ideas?) I was talking about this with some corpmates yesterday and I 100% agree with you! I mean have a look at this: Someday, devs thought "Gosh.. The game could be balanced.. I dont want this to ever happen!!! Lets make a suit that can't be scan by any others but will passively see everybody." On this the other one answered "Why not giving them a cloak that will make them even more undetectable!? :D " So the other one "Hell yeah! Gud idea here! We'll give them the 3 most powerful weapons of the game so they can OS anything! Perfect!" Seriously though, passive scan should be removed and the only radar that should remain is a 10m one equal for everybody. Sorry for my bad english.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 622	Posted - 2014.10.22 08:20:00 - [26] - Quote Also, I'd just like to state right now: Anyone that thinks passive scans are even remotely balanced, is wrong, and a bit stupid. They are better than constant scannerina scans, without cooldowns, from a prenerf Duvolle Focused Scanner, and they also allow the user to use weapons, equipment, and do other activities at the same time. Like sprinting,jumping, and cloaking for example. They don't even let the victim know they are being scanned like a Duvolle Scanner would... Its insane. It would be like if CCP nerfed the Calogi back in 1.1, but sumultaniously added a different logi suit with a 5/5/5 Layout with two Heavy weapon slots, Infinite CPU/PG and 1200 Base EHP that could sprint at 10m/s. And offered a respec. There is zero logical reasoning for passive scans to be as strong as they are... Swag-suit4lyfe!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1326	Posted - 2014.10.22 08:22:00 - [27] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Shared scans would be a logi only thing Scout bonuses would only effect the mods not the suit Caldari get precision bonus and loose dampening bonus Gallente loose precision bonus All scouts but the Amarr loose recent stamina buffs Amarr looses precision bonus and gains range amplifier bonus Matar scout stays unchanged Gallente scout can only be undetectable with 4 damps in the lows(cloak not needed) Adjust everything to above statement Pyramid leveling of ewar from light to medium to heavy with a 10m difference for range with logi being closer to scouts ewar and commando being closer to an assaults. Some of those things I like, others not so much. I still feel that removing passive scans all together would be a lot better for the health of the game. and would make active scanners viable again.. IF they buffed WP assists for them too [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
NAV HIV The Generals 2158	Posted - 2014.10.22 14:09:00 - [28] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Shared scans would be a logi only thing Scout bonuses would only effect the mods not the suit Caldari get precision bonus and loose dampening bonus Gallente loose precision bonus All scouts but the Amarr loose recent stamina buffs Amarr looses precision bonus and gains range amplifier bonus Matar scout stays unchanged Gallente scout can only be undetectable with 4 damps in the lows(cloak not needed) Adjust everything to above statement Pyramid leveling of ewar from light to medium to heavy with a 10m difference for range with logi being closer to scouts ewar and commando being closer to an assaults. Well said... All of these issued made us throw the controller... Add: ban IWS and the likes of Him for constantly running their mouth and scrub ideas which lead to this current state of the game lol
Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 100	Posted - 2014.10.22 14:31:00 - [29] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: I've been running the Gallente scout since the chromosome build so don't think that I am some ignorant heavy or something here. Lets be honest, it looks as if around 50% of the suits bought on a daily basis are scouts - this correlates to what most people see and complain about in game. I tell you with little doubt in my mind, passive scans are the main factor in this equation. Maybe we should totally remove passive scans. I do realise this would mean scout bonuses would have to be looked at but as it stands having the ability to see everything through permanent scans and the ability to use the cloak (an assault cloak as the Judge would say) must be why everyone is choosing the scout for what ever role they desire. So what are your thoughts on totally removing the passive scans from the game? (Does anyone have better ideas?) I dont think passive scans are the main factor at all. Good passive scans require a big sacrifice in health and visibility (my scan suit is using 4 out of 5 modules at advanced level, there is no room for dampeners and room for only one extender). I really dont see why they are overpowered. I think the problem is this current game meta where a scout can be entirely invisible, running around with a weapon that one shots people, and STILL have a close range wall hack that isnt useful for their squad (like the above passive scan suit), but is absolutely fine for exploiting the heck out of their invisible one shotting fit. Heck even if they use a normal rifle they still get a massive advantage. Passive scanning is the scout's squad role. If you remove it you just leave scouts as cunty shotgun slayers until the (hopefully inevitable) cloak/damp nerf, when scouts will become worthless. A decent fix to this would be to make scanning/dampening a non-all or nothing mechanic, where more dampening makes a successful scan range lower and lower, and precision and range pushing the successful scan range back out. Also they should tighten up scanning and dampening so it takes a fully dedicated scan fit to find a fully outfitted cloak/damped fit, etc. Instead right now we have very marginal benefit to anyone scanning beyond 2 precision modifiers, and almost no reason to scan beyond one precision enhancer when a enemy scouts are actually using proper damped fits.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1290	Posted - 2014.10.22 14:39:00 - [30] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Shared scans would be a logi only thing Scout bonuses would only effect the mods not the suit Caldari get precision bonus and loose dampening bonus Gallente loose precision bonus All scouts but the Amarr loose recent stamina buffs Amarr looses precision bonus and gains range amplifier bonus Matar scout stays unchanged Gallente scout can only be undetectable with 4 damps in the lows(cloak not needed) Adjust everything to above statement Pyramid leveling of ewar from light to medium to heavy with a 10m difference for range with logi being closer to scouts ewar and commando being closer to an assaults. Caldari gets a dampening bonus because they have a lack of lows , Gal get precision because of lack of highs same with Amarr , I mean as scouts , you would think that how CCP adjusted scouts to give them differences to highlight their weaknesses ( lack of said slots ) would be a good thing . They did this as to not allow a particular race to be overpowering in one area but have several areas of importance and over all balance . Shame that those who keep knocking this change and claiming to be scouts ( using scouts ) don't see the importance in these changes because they keep them from being overpowered in one area and gives them balance . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .

jade gamester Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 4	Posted - 2014.10.22 14:45:00 - [31] - Quote I'm a dedicated sentinel, it's what I can run as. I have alts all speced into different suits. I ran the scouts in my view the most balanced scout is the min followed by the amar. The gal and cal are ridiculous in my view, cal scouts massacre heavies the reason is heavies have an armour based weapon. I ran a gal scout with an assault rifle and cal scouts die quite easy, so maybe an issue with cal scouts is the lack of shield weapon users however... Who needs to run a cal/gal assault? Look at what the scouts has to offer the options are endless only thing they can't do is run with a hmg. The galentee scout, my favourite scout suit but thatshould due to one factor, invisibility you don't have to sacrifice anything to become invisible? I'm a strong believer in sacrifice. If you armour stack an amar sentinel he is very very slow but you get the bonus, the gal scout is dampening so surely they should sacrifice most lows? I dunno I mean seem biased however I have used all the suits in the game I share views on all suits I just believe scouts have taken lead, due to fotm chasers leaving there heavies. Please correct me for grammar or if I'm wrong :)
Luna McDuffing COALICION LATINA Top Men. 63	Posted - 2014.10.22 15:15:00 - [32] - Quote I can understand the frustration with the passive scan but, I have a small disagreement with removing them because well, these people have mastered space travel, cloning, laser weapons, nano technology etc etc. I think sharing a wifi connection (or whatever they call it in the eve universe) I would think that wouldn't be too hard to do at least for them. Maybe the solution is to remove one of the equipment slots so you either have to use the cloack or remote explosives but not both. Maybe the bonuses should transfer to the modules. It is really hard to say what the best solution is because how do you change something that doesn't screw half your player base. If you say that the scout invisibility duration is lower ok, is a nerf but, at least you can still be invisible. However, if you say cloaks no longer exists then that is kind of game breaking. Without a respect that is. This would be equivalent to taking away that secondary weapon on the Ammar logi. If the reason you bought it was because of the secondary then it is unfair to say you no longer have it. It is also unrealistic. War is not fair and things don't just disappears. What happens in real life is that better things come along. The flintlock rifle was replaced by the single shot which was replaced by a magazine fed rifle which was replaced by a semi auto or full auto rifle. Nobody uses flintlock because what we have today is better. To keep things more realistic then instead of nerfing one thing why not improve the others. If your enemy builds an airplane then you build a better one or you build an surface to air to take it down. That kind of thing.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1290	Posted - 2014.10.22 15:36:00 - [33] - Quote Why not just do what some have suggested ( other threads ) and that's , just tie the bonus to actual mod usage and not the suit . The mod one uses would apply / increase the bonus while used instead of an overall flat out bonus to the suit . This encourages investment in a role and mod usage to have the required effect . Basic mods give the basic bonus while prototype mods give more of a bonus , also ... prototype modular usage with a prototype suit would give the max bonus allowed . Tie this in with a noticeable cloak to fire delay and not .33 seconds , it should be at least 1 second but prob 2 ... would end all of this debate . .33 is not noticeable and there should be a more of a change over from decloaking to firing or using a weapon or laying an RE . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1291	Posted - 2014.10.22 15:52:00 - [34] - Quote no do not remove passive scan. introduce a new module that must be fit in order to recieve the passive scan intel. maybe a module the scout also needs to fit to transmit the intel. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
syzygiet G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 19	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:00:00 - [35] - Quote remove the passive range, precision, profile bonus and change them to % increase/decrease efficacy in corresponding modules? So you want to be super damped, slap on some dampeners at the cost of hp want to scan to the sun, slap on some range amps at the cost of hp you get where i am going with this? it doesnt solve the wall hack, but i do think they should get rid of the shared passives and get rid of the directional info to balance things a bit.
Boot Booter Second-Nature 988	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:10:00 - [36] - Quote TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: no do not remove passive scan. introduce a new module that must be fit in order to recieve the passive scan intel. maybe a module the scout also needs to fit to transmit the intel. Make it an equipment? Interesting idea. Probably won't happen in 1.9. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4936	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:13:00 - [37] - Quote I like the idea of the removal of shared passive scans. Why should heavies get to make no sacrifice and pick up undampened scouts and medium frames while still lugging around death machines and massive HP? The point of modules and fittings is to make a sacrifice for what you get out of them. Shared passives negate that. You can always tell a Millford Minja
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4936	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:13:00 - [38] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: no do not remove passive scan. introduce a new module that must be fit in order to recieve the passive scan intel. maybe a module the scout also needs to fit to transmit the intel. Make it an equipment? Interesting idea. Probably won't happen in 1.9. If only they made an active scanner that could share information with a squad... You can always tell a Millford Minja
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1291	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:14:00 - [39] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: TEBOW BAGGINS wrote: no do not remove passive scan. introduce a new module that must be fit in order to recieve the passive scan intel. maybe a module the scout also needs to fit to transmit the intel. Make it an equipment? Interesting idea. Probably won't happen in 1.9. it could be any slot, H, L, or E.. i think highslot makes the most sense to me since it's an electronic mod and by making it that then you have to decide if it's worth it to take an EHP hit to share your scans.. AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5099	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:23:00 - [40] - Quote The biggest problem with shared scans and the predominance of scout suits on the battlefield is that the only people not being scanned are the ones usually providing the scans. To me if you remove shared scans the scouts only become stronger. When you see the group of enemy players it's somewhat easy to predict where the dampened scout will be operating. They will be swinging around one of the flanks in most cases. Removing the shared scans will force more players to use a scout suit to give themselves a better view of the battlefield and in the case of the Gal Scout to avoid detection altogether. To be honest it amazes me that 90% of the players aren't using the Gal Scout. They MUST change the bonuses. You can take a BPO Gal Scout (with max scanning skills and Gal Scout L5) and avoid detection completely (2 complex damps and an advanced cloak). I wish my avatar was Minmatar.

Boot Booter Second-Nature 988	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:37:00 - [41] - Quote I think the best solution is a complete rework of eWar which only puts indicators on your minimap and not the hud. This removes the wallhack aspect. Active Scanners should retain this function. That said, this and many other solutions presented here are probably not possible for 1.9. I think we should focus on viable 1.9 options for a scout nerf. With this in mind I think it's unwise to mess with bonuses and modules because undoubtedly there will be some unforseen consequence that makes a new stronger FOTM. We've seen this happen over and over throughout dust history. Viable options for 1.9 remain as directly nerfing scout base stats IMO. Again, it's probably not the best solution, but it can be done equally across all races and is more easily balanced. If you are still with me, what are some of the options? I've noticed that I like playing against scouts with very little hp. They can still get the jump on me for a quick assassination but they can't run straight into enemy fire like the assault scouts can. With this in mind I will focus on options that reduces the incentive to use hp mods on scouts. Reducing base regen. This forces scouts to chose between hp and high regen like every other suit in the game. As it stands now, the Ammar scout has slightly higher base shield regen capabilities than the Caldari assault. Why should a scout in its intended role need high base regen? If they are scouting properly they shouldn't be shot. I could rant on about this forever but basically high base regen functions the same as high base eWar = stack hp because base stats are fine without modules. Reducing base regen a bit will cut down on the assault scout. Reducing base eWar. Same as regen let's force the scout to chose between hp and eWar. They should still be the best eWar suit but they shouldn't have the luxury of using base stats to achieve this to the effect they currently do. Somebody else stated to change the bonus to a module affect. This follows the same logic as that but with a different approach. Essentially close the base ewar gap between scouts and medium frames a bit. Tldr Reduce base regen and ewar stats on scout suits so that hp modules are more of a burden than they currently are. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Aria Gomes Wirykomi Wolf Pack 621	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:44:00 - [42] - Quote I wish the eWar bonuses were module based instead of suit, but that might also hinder us Min Scouts that would have to run dmg mods for our knives. Some of us already use codebreakers, some just prefer speed tanking above all. On my Min Scout, I sacrifice my survivability to put on two complex precision enhancers and a kin kat(or two) with a damp or codebreaker,sometimes regulator. With those suits I can only have 1 complex shield extender, 2 sidearms and compact nanohive. My other modules are complex. (On an ADV Min Scout PG is filled up at 56 afterwards)
Dreis Shadowweaver Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 439	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:46:00 - [43] - Quote I don't like the idea of removing shared or passive scans, as that is what the Scout is supposed to be about. I also don't like the idea of removing the second equipment slot, as being able to use the cloak to sneak behind enemy lines and drop an Uplink or two seems like the epitomy of Scoutliness to me. My proposal is to remove the Scout's Light Weapon slot and replace it with a second Sidearm slot. Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel I've only ever known 1.8... Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5100	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:47:00 - [44] - Quote Perhaps removing automatic shared scans is the answer along with giving the ability for medium frames to detect even the most dampened scout with two precision enhancers (their range would still allow for scouts to move freely in almost all cases). Adding a module that allows for passive scans to be shared to squad mates and adding a module that allows for the reception of passive scans. If you applied all these things along with tying the scout bonuses to modules instead of the suits I think you'd find the most balance we've had since the significant buff to scouts. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Aria Gomes Wirykomi Wolf Pack 623	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:51:00 - [45] - Quote Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: I don't like the idea of removing shared or passive scans, as that is what the Scout is supposed to be about. I also don't like the idea of removing the second equipment slot, as being able to use the cloak to sneak behind enemy lines and drop an Uplink or two seems like the epitomy of Scoutliness to me. My proposal is to remove the Scout's Light Weapon slot and replace it with a second Sidearm slot. :P Sounds like what I do right now. (The sidearms part)
Maur'ce Brutar Merry and Hell 24	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:53:00 - [46] - Quote I support the ability to remove passive scans if Minmatar get the ability to scale buildings with Nova Knives GûêGûäGûêGûäGûêGûäGûêGûäGûê GûêGûäGûêGûêGûäGûê GûêGûäGûêGûäGûêGûäGûêGûäGûê Merry GûêGûêGûêGö+GûêGûêGûêGûêGûê GûÉGûêGûêGûêGûêGûî GûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGö+GûêGûêGûê And GûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê GûÉGûêGûêGûêGûêGûî GûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê Hell
Dreis Shadowweaver Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 440	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:55:00 - [47] - Quote Maur'ce Brutar wrote: I support the ability to remove passive scans if Minmatar get the ability to scale buildings with Nova Knives OMG SO MUCH THIS ^ Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel I've only ever known 1.8... Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5101	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:57:00 - [48] - Quote Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: I don't like the idea of removing shared or passive scans, as that is what the Scout is supposed to be about. I also don't like the idea of removing the second equipment slot, as being able to use the cloak to sneak behind enemy lines and drop an Uplink or two seems like the epitomy of Scoutliness to me. My proposal is to remove the Scout's Light Weapon slot and replace it with a second Sidearm slot. I've always hated the idea of gimping the offensive capabilities of logis so I couldn't get behind the removal of the light weapon slot for scouts. The shotgun would effectively be gone from the game. Like others have said, it's just too easy to dominate with a bunch of scouts. Whatever the remedy is, it WILL **** off dedicated scouts. But as more and more players skill into them it's just killing any sort of variety on the battlefield. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Dreis Shadowweaver Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 440	Posted - 2014.10.22 16:59:00 - [49] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: I don't like the idea of removing shared or passive scans, as that is what the Scout is supposed to be about. I also don't like the idea of removing the second equipment slot, as being able to use the cloak to sneak behind enemy lines and drop an Uplink or two seems like the epitomy of Scoutliness to me. My proposal is to remove the Scout's Light Weapon slot and replace it with a second Sidearm slot. I've always hated the idea of gimping the offensive capabilities of logis so I couldn't get behind the removal of the light weapon slot for scouts. The shotgun would effectively be gone from the game. Like others have said, it's just too easy to dominate with a bunch of scouts. Whatever the remedy is, it WILL **** off dedicated scouts. But as more and more players skill into them it's just killing any sort of variety on the battlefield. What would you propose then? Creator of the 'Nova Knifers United' channel I've only ever known 1.8... Caldari blood, Minmatar heart <3
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5101	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:01:00 - [50] - Quote Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: I don't like the idea of removing shared or passive scans, as that is what the Scout is supposed to be about. I also don't like the idea of removing the second equipment slot, as being able to use the cloak to sneak behind enemy lines and drop an Uplink or two seems like the epitomy of Scoutliness to me. My proposal is to remove the Scout's Light Weapon slot and replace it with a second Sidearm slot. I've always hated the idea of gimping the offensive capabilities of logis so I couldn't get behind the removal of the light weapon slot for scouts. The shotgun would effectively be gone from the game. Like others have said, it's just too easy to dominate with a bunch of scouts. Whatever the remedy is, it WILL **** off dedicated scouts. But as more and more players skill into them it's just killing any sort of variety on the battlefield. What would you propose then? It's in a post above yours, but.... Perhaps removing automatic shared scans is the answer along with giving the ability for medium frames to detect even the most dampened scout with two precision enhancers (their range would still allow for scouts to move freely in almost all cases). Adding a module that allows for passive scans to be shared to squad mates and adding a module that allows for the reception of passive scans. If you applied all these things along with tying the scout bonuses to modules instead of the suits I think you'd find the most balance we've had since the significant buff to scouts. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.

Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1733	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:09:00 - [51] - Quote Tanked scouts are the problem. Make regular plates increase db. Fixed Delt for CPM2 CPM1 MISSION : FAILED Moss-delt on skype
CharacterNameWasTaken G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 133	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:13:00 - [52] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Shared scans would be a logi only thing Scout bonuses would only effect the mods not the suit Caldari get precision bonus and loose dampening bonus Gallente loose precision bonus All scouts but the Amarr loose recent stamina buffs Amarr looses precision bonus and gains range amplifier bonus Matar scout stays unchanged Gallente scout can only be undetectable with 4 damps in the lows(cloak not needed) Adjust everything to above statement Pyramid leveling of ewar from light to medium to heavy with a 10m difference for range with logi being closer to scouts ewar and commando being closer to an assaults. scout here and i agree with all of this this is the best more thought out ways ive seen.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 626	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:16:00 - [53] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Tanked scouts are the problem. Make regular plates increase db. Fixed Shield Extenders should increase Db. Armor Plates should lower scan presicion or decrease scan range. Swag-suit4lyfe!
Horizon Limit Nexus Balusa Horizon 80	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:17:00 - [54] - Quote Passive scan removal will just not happen, even if it would be better for the game. Cal scout vs Cal scout
CharacterNameWasTaken G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 133	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:17:00 - [55] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: I don't like the idea of removing shared or passive scans, as that is what the Scout is supposed to be about. I also don't like the idea of removing the second equipment slot, as being able to use the cloak to sneak behind enemy lines and drop an Uplink or two seems like the epitomy of Scoutliness to me. My proposal is to remove the Scout's Light Weapon slot and replace it with a second Sidearm slot. I've always hated the idea of gimping the offensive capabilities of logis so I couldn't get behind the removal of the light weapon slot for scouts. The shotgun would effectively be gone from the game. Like others have said, it's just too easy to dominate with a bunch of scouts. Whatever the remedy is, it WILL **** off dedicated scouts. But as more and more players skill into them it's just killing any sort of variety on the battlefield. i can confirm that removing the light weap slot would ruin thors playstyle so protecting it aith false facts that it would make it harder to kill with a scout is invalid. Try running dual sidearms all day for 1 day and tell me that its imposaible to kill people with sidearms.
Horizon Limit Nexus Balusa Horizon 80	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:19:00 - [56] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Tanked scouts are the problem. Make regular plates increase db. Fixed Shield Extenders should increase Db. Armor Plates should lower scan presicion or decrease scan range. There is no reason why a piece of scrap metal should interfere with scan, shield is different, due to its elettromagnetic nature. Cal scout vs Cal scout
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 627	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:30:00 - [57] - Quote Horizon Limit wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Tanked scouts are the problem. Make regular plates increase db. Fixed Shield Extenders should increase Db. Armor Plates should lower scan presicion or decrease scan range. There is no reason why a piece of scrap metal should interfere with scan, shield is different, due to its elettromagnetic nature. It makes enough sense to say that armor plates interfere with passive scans because scans have a harder time penetrating the armor on dropsuits, and it makes more sense for it to work this way for balance reasons. It also makes an insane amount of sense to say that insanely strong electromagnetic fields would light up on any scanners more than it would hinder them... Balance>realism anyway, so shut it. Swag-suit4lyfe!
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1734	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:36:00 - [58] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Horizon Limit wrote: Fizzer XCIV wrote: Mossellia Delt wrote: Tanked scouts are the problem. Make regular plates increase db. Fixed Shield Extenders should increase Db. Armor Plates should lower scan presicion or decrease scan range. There is no reason why a piece of scrap metal should interfere with scan, shield is different, due to its elettromagnetic nature. It makes enough sense to say that armor plates interfere with passive scans because scans have a harder time penetrating the armor on dropsuits, and it makes more sense for it to work this way for balance reasons. Balance>realism anyway, so shut it. Other way around makes more sense Plates raise db Shields lower scan range Delt for CPM2 CPM1 MISSION : FAILED Moss-delt on skype
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5101	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:36:00 - [59] - Quote CharacterNameWasTaken wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: I don't like the idea of removing shared or passive scans, as that is what the Scout is supposed to be about. I also don't like the idea of removing the second equipment slot, as being able to use the cloak to sneak behind enemy lines and drop an Uplink or two seems like the epitomy of Scoutliness to me. My proposal is to remove the Scout's Light Weapon slot and replace it with a second Sidearm slot. I've always hated the idea of gimping the offensive capabilities of logis so I couldn't get behind the removal of the light weapon slot for scouts. The shotgun would effectively be gone from the game. Like others have said, it's just too easy to dominate with a bunch of scouts. Whatever the remedy is, it WILL **** off dedicated scouts. But as more and more players skill into them it's just killing any sort of variety on the battlefield. i can confirm that removing the light weap slot would ruin thors playstyle so protecting it aith false facts that it would make it harder to kill with a scout is invalid. Try running dual sidearms all day for 1 day and tell me that its imposaible to kill people with sidearms. I have the gal scout and it makes me feel like a dirty wh0re when I use it. You are barking up the wrong tree. I just don't think limited scouts to sidearms would be the right approach. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5101	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:43:00 - [60] - Quote CharacterNameWasTaken wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Shared scans would be a logi only thing Scout bonuses would only effect the mods not the suit Caldari get precision bonus and loose dampening bonus Gallente loose precision bonus All scouts but the Amarr loose recent stamina buffs Amarr looses precision bonus and gains range amplifier bonus Matar scout stays unchanged Gallente scout can only be undetectable with 4 damps in the lows(cloak not needed) Adjust everything to above statement Pyramid leveling of ewar from light to medium to heavy with a 10m difference for range with logi being closer to scouts ewar and commando being closer to an assaults. scout here and i agree with all of this this is the best more thought out ways ive seen. Those things all sound good, but I feel it's the wrong approach. By simply changing the suit bonuses there are still going to be issues. I think EWAR and shared scans are great, but there should be a sacrifice. If you made the broadcast/receive modules an equipment slot it would significantly boost the effectiveness of logis because your scouts (assuming they also fit a cloak), assaults, and commandos would not have any equipment if they are choosing to have shared scans. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.

CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2098	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:45:00 - [61] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: CharacterNameWasTaken wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: I don't like the idea of removing shared or passive scans, as that is what the Scout is supposed to be about. I also don't like the idea of removing the second equipment slot, as being able to use the cloak to sneak behind enemy lines and drop an Uplink or two seems like the epitomy of Scoutliness to me. My proposal is to remove the Scout's Light Weapon slot and replace it with a second Sidearm slot. I've always hated the idea of gimping the offensive capabilities of logis so I couldn't get behind the removal of the light weapon slot for scouts. The shotgun would effectively be gone from the game. Like others have said, it's just too easy to dominate with a bunch of scouts. Whatever the remedy is, it WILL ** off dedicated scouts. But as more and more players skill into them it's just killing any sort of variety on the battlefield. i can confirm that removing the light weap slot would ruin thors playstyle so protecting it aith false facts that it would make it harder to kill with a scout is invalid. Try running dual sidearms all day for 1 day and tell me that its imposaible to kill people with sidearms. I have the gal scout and it makes me feel like a dirty wh0re when I use it. You are barking up the wrong tree. I just don't think limited scouts to sidearms would be the right approach. The gall scout is stealthy king and the Caldari scout just has ridiculous shield recharge capabilities. I was just checking proto fits after I was facing a Caldari scout earlier and he was recharging shields as I was fighting him! Is it not wrong that a Caldari scout can have better shield capabilities (except maximum shield HP) than a Caldari sentinel? I think that is wrong to be honest but that's besides the point. As it stands I believe it is only a matter of time before something is changed on scouts, I just hope it is the right sort of change and I hope discussion in threads like this will bring to light what that change might be. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big fk-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
NAV HIV The Generals 2159	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:48:00 - [62] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: Dreis Shadowweaver wrote: I don't like the idea of removing shared or passive scans, as that is what the Scout is supposed to be about. I also don't like the idea of removing the second equipment slot, as being able to use the cloak to sneak behind enemy lines and drop an Uplink or two seems like the epitomy of Scoutliness to me. My proposal is to remove the Scout's Light Weapon slot and replace it with a second Sidearm slot. I've always hated the idea of gimping the offensive capabilities of logis so I couldn't get behind the removal of the light weapon slot for scouts. The shotgun would effectively be gone from the game. Like others have said, it's just too easy to dominate with a bunch of scouts. Whatever the remedy is, it WILL **** off dedicated scouts. But as more and more players skill into them it's just killing any sort of variety on the battlefield. What would you propose then? It's in a post above yours, but.... Perhaps removing automatic shared scans is the answer along with giving the ability for medium frames to detect even the most dampened scout with two precision enhancers (their range would still allow for scouts to move freely in almost all cases). Adding a module that allows for passive scans to be shared to squad mates and adding a module that allows for the reception of passive scans. If you applied all these things along with tying the scout bonuses to modules instead of the suits I think you'd find the most balance we've had since the significant buff to scouts. Dismisses the Point in using a Scout suit. Might aswell deck out an Amarr Assault with Dampeners and PEs ... It'd be Godly...
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5101	Posted - 2014.10.22 17:51:00 - [63] - Quote Please elaborate. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2099	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:23:00 - [64] - Quote And please guys, the point of a scout suit is NOT the inbuilt scans. That only shows me how powerful the scans are if that is what people are specing into them for. The scout is about scouting the enemy positions and composition, relaying that information back to your squad through what ever means available. The scout is about speed and stealth, about getting behind the enemy lines as it were. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5102	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:27:00 - [65] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: And please guys, the point of a scout suit is NOT the inbuilt scans. That only shows me how powerful the scans are if that is what people are specing into them for. The scout is about scouting the enemy positions and composition, relaying that information back to your squad through what ever means available. The scout is about speed and stealth, about getting behind the enemy lines as it were. Well somehow logi became synonymous with medic so I'm not sure I agree with you here. Dust 514 is mostly played solo these days so if scouts are only supposed to audibly communicate information to their squad then we can just go ahead and remove them from the game. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2099	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:31:00 - [66] - Quote Thor Odinson42 wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: And please guys, the point of a scout suit is NOT the inbuilt scans. That only shows me how powerful the scans are if that is what people are specing into them for. The scout is about scouting the enemy positions and composition, relaying that information back to your squad through what ever means available. The scout is about speed and stealth, about getting behind the enemy lines as it were. Well somehow logi became synonymous with medic so I'm not sure I agree with you here. Dust 514 is mostly played solo these days so if scouts are only supposed to audibly communicate information to their squad then we can just go ahead and remove them from the game. You have been around this game for a long time right? Passive scans were never the scouts original selling point. Don't you remember back to when Calamity Jane and others were running fast scout shotgunners? It was all about the speed coupled with the shotgun back then as well as stealth that were the selling points for the scout (I say scout singular as the Gallente scout was the only one back then) I do forget somewhat but I am 90% sure passive scans and 'ewar' was different and more limited back then as well. IIRC the whole team shared scans as in if a blue dot saw an enemy, you saw it too. Now I for one have not been using comms much since my mic broke so I am not saying every scout needs to be on comms but letting the game share information on its own accord is not the right answer either. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5102	Posted - 2014.10.22 18:42:00 - [67] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Thor Odinson42 wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: And please guys, the point of a scout suit is NOT the inbuilt scans. That only shows me how powerful the scans are if that is what people are specing into them for. The scout is about scouting the enemy positions and composition, relaying that information back to your squad through what ever means available. The scout is about speed and stealth, about getting behind the enemy lines as it were. Well somehow logi became synonymous with medic so I'm not sure I agree with you here. Dust 514 is mostly played solo these days so if scouts are only supposed to audibly communicate information to their squad then we can just go ahead and remove them from the game. You have been around this game for a long time right? Passive scans were never the scouts original selling point. Don't you remember back to when Calamity Jane and others were running fast scout shotgunners? It was all about the speed coupled with the shotgun back then as well as stealth that were the selling points for the scout (I say scout singular as the Gallente scout was the only one back then) I do forget somewhat but I am 90% sure passive scans and 'ewar' was different and more limited back then as well. IIRC the whole team shared scans as in if a blue dot saw an enemy, you saw it too. Now I for one have not been using comms much since my mic broke so I am not saying every scout needs to be on comms but letting the game share information on its own accord is not the right answer either. Whatever the answer is, the game was much, much more fun before it was Scout 514. I like the idea of EWAR a lot, but it needs to be curbed somehow. A new equipment that is dropped that screws up EWAR or something. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.


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