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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5099
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Posted - 2014.10.22 16:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
The biggest problem with shared scans and the predominance of scout suits on the battlefield is that the only people not being scanned are the ones usually providing the scans. To me if you remove shared scans the scouts only become stronger. When you see the group of enemy players it's somewhat easy to predict where the dampened scout will be operating. They will be swinging around one of the flanks in most cases.
Removing the shared scans will force more players to use a scout suit to give themselves a better view of the battlefield and in the case of the Gal Scout to avoid detection altogether. To be honest it amazes me that 90% of the players aren't using the Gal Scout. They MUST change the bonuses. You can take a BPO Gal Scout (with max scanning skills and Gal Scout L5) and avoid detection completely (2 complex damps and an advanced cloak).
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5100
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Posted - 2014.10.22 16:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Perhaps removing automatic shared scans is the answer along with giving the ability for medium frames to detect even the most dampened scout with two precision enhancers (their range would still allow for scouts to move freely in almost all cases).
Adding a module that allows for passive scans to be shared to squad mates and adding a module that allows for the reception of passive scans.
If you applied all these things along with tying the scout bonuses to modules instead of the suits I think you'd find the most balance we've had since the significant buff to scouts.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5101
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 16:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:I don't like the idea of removing shared or passive scans, as that is what the Scout is supposed to be about. I also don't like the idea of removing the second equipment slot, as being able to use the cloak to sneak behind enemy lines and drop an Uplink or two seems like the epitomy of Scoutliness to me. My proposal is to remove the Scout's Light Weapon slot and replace it with a second Sidearm slot. 
I've always hated the idea of gimping the offensive capabilities of logis so I couldn't get behind the removal of the light weapon slot for scouts.
The shotgun would effectively be gone from the game.
Like others have said, it's just too easy to dominate with a bunch of scouts. Whatever the remedy is, it WILL **** off dedicated scouts. But as more and more players skill into them it's just killing any sort of variety on the battlefield.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5101
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Posted - 2014.10.22 17:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:I don't like the idea of removing shared or passive scans, as that is what the Scout is supposed to be about. I also don't like the idea of removing the second equipment slot, as being able to use the cloak to sneak behind enemy lines and drop an Uplink or two seems like the epitomy of Scoutliness to me. My proposal is to remove the Scout's Light Weapon slot and replace it with a second Sidearm slot. I've always hated the idea of gimping the offensive capabilities of logis so I couldn't get behind the removal of the light weapon slot for scouts. The shotgun would effectively be gone from the game. Like others have said, it's just too easy to dominate with a bunch of scouts. Whatever the remedy is, it WILL **** off dedicated scouts. But as more and more players skill into them it's just killing any sort of variety on the battlefield. What would you propose then?
It's in a post above yours, but....
Perhaps removing automatic shared scans is the answer along with giving the ability for medium frames to detect even the most dampened scout with two precision enhancers (their range would still allow for scouts to move freely in almost all cases).
Adding a module that allows for passive scans to be shared to squad mates and adding a module that allows for the reception of passive scans.
If you applied all these things along with tying the scout bonuses to modules instead of the suits I think you'd find the most balance we've had since the significant buff to scouts.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5101
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 17:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
CharacterNameWasTaken wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:Dreis Shadowweaver wrote:I don't like the idea of removing shared or passive scans, as that is what the Scout is supposed to be about. I also don't like the idea of removing the second equipment slot, as being able to use the cloak to sneak behind enemy lines and drop an Uplink or two seems like the epitomy of Scoutliness to me. My proposal is to remove the Scout's Light Weapon slot and replace it with a second Sidearm slot. I've always hated the idea of gimping the offensive capabilities of logis so I couldn't get behind the removal of the light weapon slot for scouts. The shotgun would effectively be gone from the game. Like others have said, it's just too easy to dominate with a bunch of scouts. Whatever the remedy is, it WILL **** off dedicated scouts. But as more and more players skill into them it's just killing any sort of variety on the battlefield. i can confirm that removing the light weap slot would ruin thors playstyle so protecting it aith false facts that it would make it harder to kill with a scout is invalid. Try running dual sidearms all day for 1 day and tell me that its imposaible to kill people with sidearms.
I have the gal scout and it makes me feel like a dirty wh0re when I use it. You are barking up the wrong tree.
I just don't think limited scouts to sidearms would be the right approach.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5101
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Posted - 2014.10.22 17:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
CharacterNameWasTaken wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Shared scans would be a logi only thing
Scout bonuses would only effect the mods not the suit
Caldari get precision bonus and loose dampening bonus
Gallente loose precision bonus
All scouts but the Amarr loose recent stamina buffs
Amarr looses precision bonus and gains range amplifier bonus
Matar scout stays unchanged
Gallente scout can only be undetectable with 4 damps in the lows(cloak not needed)
Adjust everything to above statement
Pyramid leveling of ewar from light to medium to heavy with a 10m difference for range with logi being closer to scouts ewar and commando being closer to an assaults. scout here and i agree with all of this this is the best more thought out ways ive seen.
Those things all sound good, but I feel it's the wrong approach. By simply changing the suit bonuses there are still going to be issues.
I think EWAR and shared scans are great, but there should be a sacrifice.
If you made the broadcast/receive modules an equipment slot it would significantly boost the effectiveness of logis because your scouts (assuming they also fit a cloak), assaults, and commandos would not have any equipment if they are choosing to have shared scans.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5101
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Posted - 2014.10.22 17:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Please elaborate.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5102
|
Posted - 2014.10.22 18:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:And please guys, the point of a scout suit is NOT the inbuilt scans. That only shows me how powerful the scans are if that is what people are specing into them for.
The scout is about scouting the enemy positions and composition, relaying that information back to your squad through what ever means available. The scout is about speed and stealth, about getting behind the enemy lines as it were.
Well somehow logi became synonymous with medic so I'm not sure I agree with you here.
Dust 514 is mostly played solo these days so if scouts are only supposed to audibly communicate information to their squad then we can just go ahead and remove them from the game.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
5102
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Posted - 2014.10.22 18:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:CommanderBolt wrote:And please guys, the point of a scout suit is NOT the inbuilt scans. That only shows me how powerful the scans are if that is what people are specing into them for.
The scout is about scouting the enemy positions and composition, relaying that information back to your squad through what ever means available. The scout is about speed and stealth, about getting behind the enemy lines as it were. Well somehow logi became synonymous with medic so I'm not sure I agree with you here. Dust 514 is mostly played solo these days so if scouts are only supposed to audibly communicate information to their squad then we can just go ahead and remove them from the game. You have been around this game for a long time right? Passive scans were never the scouts original selling point. Don't you remember back to when Calamity Jane and others were running fast scout shotgunners? It was all about the speed coupled with the shotgun back then as well as stealth that were the selling points for the scout (I say scout singular as the Gallente scout was the only one back then) I do forget somewhat but I am 90% sure passive scans and 'ewar' was different and more limited back then as well. IIRC the whole team shared scans as in if a blue dot saw an enemy, you saw it too. Now I for one have not been using comms much since my mic broke so I am not saying every scout needs to be on comms but letting the game share information on its own accord is not the right answer either.
Whatever the answer is, the game was much, much more fun before it was Scout 514. I like the idea of EWAR a lot, but it needs to be curbed somehow.
A new equipment that is dropped that screws up EWAR or something.
I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
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