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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
0
   |
Posted - 2014.10.17 11:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
1. You do not play from the pilots perspective, or rarther you will not and complain that all pilots give you is anecdotal evidence which happens to be more reliable that your graphs
2. Pull random numbers from your arse - ie ADS ROF numbers
3. Nerfing and buffing at the same time - I understood the AB nerf but yet you dont understand that its the DS only counter to swarms, so what do you do at the same time? you buff swarms so we cant outrun them
4. More nerfing - With the Railgun ROF nerf you decided in your wisdom or stupidity to add on the ADS nerf which cripples the railgun and incubus
5. You dont understand the role of vehicles - You call ASSUALT dropships TRANSPORT? ASSAULT is used for ASSAULTING positions its why it has a gun on it for the pilot to kill infantry and vehicles and it can only trasport 2ppl at a time unless you manage to gimp your fit and put on small turrets. Also at a time we had LOGISTIC dropships which were used from transport and general LOGISTIC things
Bonus - For all you idiots who actually believe in the lolcpm and judge who you voted to be your vehicle candidate and represent pilots, well he failed you and has pulled a jenza and gone awol but found time to play destiny but not to comment on all the vehicle changes including his beloved ds, so another one who does it for the free trip to china but no suprise to the 95% of ppl who really dont care and didnt vote
Anymore? |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3692
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 11:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Inb4threadlock or devs ignore.
This thread defines the term "badpost."
Your screaming provides no useful information or evidence to back your claims.
Your sense of moral outrage and accusation fail to pass muster.
Make a new thread with less accusative ranting , a constructive title and evidence and it will be taken more seriously.
As it stands this is exactly the kind of thing that gets zero results. |
Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 12:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Inb4threadlock or devs ignore.
This thread defines the term "badpost."
Your screaming provides no useful information or evidence to back your claims.
Your sense of moral outrage and accusation fail to pass muster.
Make a new thread with less accusative ranting , a constructive title and evidence and it will be taken more seriously.
As it stands this is exactly the kind of thing that gets zero results.
1. Nice badpost
2. Cant scream on forums
3. Evidence is in playing the game which rattari will not do from a pilots persepctive and also the number of ADS in games has dropped significantly instead normal DS are used because cheaper/stronger
4. Moral outrage? oh do you mean that its all for infantry and nothing for vehicles and pilots should stay stum?
5. Accusation that rattari pulls numbers from his arse? But its true he made up the numbers the day before the hotfix without any input from anyone else hence why the ADS sucks and also its a pretty big fact that he doesnt fly
6. No need for new thread
7. Wont get results because in all honesty rattari wont read it, i mean do CCP even test out the changes beforehand? well no not when they shoehore changes the day before a hotfix |
jace silencerww
Inner.Hell
59
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 12:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
ok how about the fact I saw a militia tank with nothing but militia mods drive from redline to redline while getting attacked by a soloing ads and the tank got away? how about with a gunner in an ads or ds as long as you use the same turret your gunner will do the same amount of damage ? yes I tested this. here is the funny thing you get more ehp, cpu/pg, high & low slots with a normal ds vs an ads. so why would I use an ads vs ds? oh right the turret that the pilot can use. lol that is laughable. you can do a lot more damage with a normal ds with 2 gunners and a mobile cru.
BTW why do we have the skill in vehciles to use better CRUs but we only have 1 in the market? |
Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 12:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
jace silencerww wrote:ok how about the fact I saw a militia tank with nothing but militia mods drive from redline to redline while getting attacked by a soloing ads and the tank got away? how about with a gunner in an ads or ds as long as you use the same turret your gunner will do the same amount of damage ? yes I tested this. here is the funny thing you get more ehp, cpu/pg, high & low slots with a normal ds vs an ads. so why would I use an ads vs ds? oh right the turret that the pilot can use. lol that is laughable. you can do a lot more damage with a normal ds with 2 gunners and a mobile cru.
BTW why do we have the skill in vehciles to use better CRUs but we only have 1 in the market?
I have seen that too
1. Incubus - Was an awesome anti vehicle ADS, no is worthless, the ROF nerf to the railgun turret itself and the ADS means it will never dish out enough damage to kill a vehicle
2. Python - Same again, wont do enough to end a vehicle, not bad for infantry but be prepared to chase a target unless you get a direct hit which means they need to be under 500hp total for a OHK, splash helps but forget dualing a swarm user with the amount of rocking that happens when you are hit
3. mCRU is only basic atm, no adv or proto version just like vehicles, also no WP which they may add in 1.9 (dont hold your breath tho) Also mCRU is okay but no way to kick ppl out. Also mCRU is unlocked in the Engineering Skill, problem is it should unlock 5% per level for all vehicles just like the infantry one does yet it does not |
Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2889
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 12:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
If you're going to complain about the state of ADS, please do so in a better manner than that. Whining about the changes will change nothing. And to be honest, the only legit complaint you have is about the ROF.
FAs official perv and lech. My dream is to turn 80 and become a dirty old man chasing skirts.
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:01:00 -
[7] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:If you're going to complain about the state of ADS, please do so in a better manner than that. Whining about the changes will change nothing. And to be honest, the only legit complaint you have is about the ROF.
1. Thats your opinion
2. I did a list
3. Complaining is classed as whining anyways it seems by everyone and anyone
4. Your right that nothing will change, never does, if its anything to do with vehicles if wont ever change for the better
5. Legit complaint, again your opinion, but i find that if you are going to change things test them out, test each of the changes on there own ie AB changes 1st, then swarms speeds next, discuss with community and dont pull numbers out of your arse the day before the hotfix also helps
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2889
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:If you're going to complain about the state of ADS, please do so in a better manner than that. Whining about the changes will change nothing. And to be honest, the only legit complaint you have is about the ROF.
1. Thats your opinion 2. I did a list 3. Complaining is classed as whining anyways it seems by everyone and anyone 4. Your right that nothing will change, never does, if its anything to do with vehicles if wont ever change for the better 5. Legit complaint, again your opinion, but i find that if you are going to change things test them out, test each of the changes on there own ie AB changes 1st, then swarms speeds next, discuss with community and dont pull numbers out of your arse the day before the hotfix also helps
1) Well, you're entitled to your opinion as well. Even if your opinion is wrong  (sorry, I had to do that. Been keeping that punchline stored for a while)
2) I've done my fair share of lists too.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2377325#post2377325
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2395459#post2395459
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2350873#post2350873
And research is in there as well
3) Try putting math in your threads, usually cancels it out.
4) Maybe, maybe not.
5) I refer you to #2 (hehe number two)
FAs official perv and lech. My dream is to turn 80 and become a dirty old man chasing skirts.
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:If you're going to complain about the state of ADS, please do so in a better manner than that. Whining about the changes will change nothing. And to be honest, the only legit complaint you have is about the ROF.
1. Thats your opinion 2. I did a list 3. Complaining is classed as whining anyways it seems by everyone and anyone 4. Your right that nothing will change, never does, if its anything to do with vehicles if wont ever change for the better 5. Legit complaint, again your opinion, but i find that if you are going to change things test them out, test each of the changes on there own ie AB changes 1st, then swarms speeds next, discuss with community and dont pull numbers out of your arse the day before the hotfix also helps 1) Well, you're entitled to your opinion as well. Even if your opinion is wrong (sorry, I had to do that. Been keeping that punchline stored for a while) 2) I've done my fair share of lists too. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2377325#post2377325https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2395459#post2395459https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2350873#post2350873And research is in there as well 3) Try putting math in your threads, usually cancels it out. 4) Maybe, maybe not. 5) I refer you to #2 (hehe number two)
1. Meh i may disagree with your opinion and that its wrong but is still your opinion and aslong as you believe in it you will consider it right
2. Did your lists ever get anything done tho?
3. You did, nothing changed, even so rattari stands by his graphs and charts instead of seeing 1st hand in the game
4. Since the dawn of the forums pilots have asked for various things which have not happened while CCP goes the other direction like 5% per level CPU/PG.ARMOR/SHIELD skill which pilots lost for no reason yet infantry keep them, if basic things cannot be undone then the big problems will never change
5. 2&3 |
Gyn Wallace
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
136
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Apparently people write in enumerated lists now, so:
1. In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? Has it dropped under 6:1? Are you an under-average pilot, or do you have a K/D ratio that suggests that ADS pilots aren't underpowered?
There really isn't a third option, given that the ADS pilot stats haven't fallen to where any reasonable person would consider the ADS underpowered, in the absence of a better argument than you've presented.
2. I appreciate that you regret the loss of the days when the average ADS pilot's K/D ratio was 20:1, but can you understand why the rest of us didn't think that was particularly balanced?
3. How would you balance the ADS, without returning to those days of ADS's with 20:1 average K/D ratios? Few of us are going to support a return to clearly over-powered ADSs. |
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2889
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:If you're going to complain about the state of ADS, please do so in a better manner than that. Whining about the changes will change nothing. And to be honest, the only legit complaint you have is about the ROF.
1. Thats your opinion 2. I did a list 3. Complaining is classed as whining anyways it seems by everyone and anyone 4. Your right that nothing will change, never does, if its anything to do with vehicles if wont ever change for the better 5. Legit complaint, again your opinion, but i find that if you are going to change things test them out, test each of the changes on there own ie AB changes 1st, then swarms speeds next, discuss with community and dont pull numbers out of your arse the day before the hotfix also helps 1) Well, you're entitled to your opinion as well. Even if your opinion is wrong (sorry, I had to do that. Been keeping that punchline stored for a while) 2) I've done my fair share of lists too. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2377325#post2377325https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2395459#post2395459https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2350873#post2350873And research is in there as well 3) Try putting math in your threads, usually cancels it out. 4) Maybe, maybe not. 5) I refer you to #2 (hehe number two) 1. Meh i may disagree with your opinion and that its wrong but is still your opinion and aslong as you believe in it you will consider it right 2. Did your lists ever get anything done tho? 3. You did, nothing changed, even so rattari stands by his graphs and charts instead of seeing 1st hand in the game 4. Since the dawn of the forums pilots have asked for various things which have not happened while CCP goes the other direction like 5% per level CPU/PG.ARMOR/SHIELD skill which pilots lost for no reason yet infantry keep them, if basic things cannot be undone then the big problems will never change 5. 2&3
1) Going to drop this one, it seems we'll be going in circles.
2) I'll give you that, no it didn't.
3) Again, have to give you that one. I'd show him all that crap, but RL is keeping me too busy, and I doubt he'd try it out anyway.
And I'll still stand by recommending you put numbers and math there. Seems to be the nerd language here.
4) ADS is already an SP intensive role. I don't feel giving us more to skill into is a good idea.
5) Another one of those circle things.
FAs official perv and lech. My dream is to turn 80 and become a dirty old man chasing skirts.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2183
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Inb4threadlock or devs ignore.
This thread defines the term "badpost."
Your screaming provides no useful information or evidence to back your claims.
Your sense of moral outrage and accusation fail to pass muster.
Make a new thread with less accusative ranting , a constructive title and evidence and it will be taken more seriously.
As it stands this is exactly the kind of thing that gets zero results.
Oh, here you are again, keeping the infantry status quo.
It was pilots that provided the math to prove the TAC AR was on par with a large blaster.
It was pilots that provided the math to show how much damage swarms would do before reloading when a certain buff was coming.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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emm kay
G0DS AM0NG MEN
213
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote:Apparently people write in enumerated lists now, so:
1. In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? Has it dropped under 6:1? Are you an under-average pilot, or do you have a K/D ratio that suggests that ADS pilots aren't underpowered?
There really isn't a third option, given that the ADS pilot stats haven't fallen to where any reasonable person would consider the ADS underpowered, in the absence of a better argument than you've presented.
2. I appreciate that you regret the loss of the days when the average ADS pilot's K/D ratio was 20:1, but can you understand why the rest of us didn't think that was particularly balanced?
3. How would you balance the ADS, without returning to those days of ADS's with 20:1 average K/D ratios? Few of us are going to support a return to clearly over-powered ADSs.
I am an ADS pilot.
1) the only time I get above 1.0 on a game is when there is NO AV. any form of AV is now a death sentance to all dropships.
2)somewhat. then again, back in those days, a good ADS was 700k-1m/fit. and as for ISKwise effeciency, ADS was the worst way to go, even for pilots
3) well, first off Buff the ADs's tank. I think that a 20% increase in EHP is fair.
Next add a low slot to both the Python and the Incubus. It makes NO sense that the ADS has less slots than the MLT dropships.
Decrease swarm speed. increase swarm lock range. decrease sound made.
Decrease forge gun knock back.
Increase glow on PLC projectile.
see? no damage tweaks.
nobody complains of a nerf (maybe swarm launchers).
There is a reason you never see me in battle.
it's because I see you first.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2183
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:If you're going to complain about the state of ADS, please do so in a better manner than that. Whining about the changes will change nothing. And to be honest, the only legit complaint you have is about the ROF.
3. Complaining is classed as whining anyways it seems by everyone and anyone
It's only classed as complaining when it's about how bad a state vehicles are in. If it's infantry, it's a legitimate concern and will be looked at ASAP.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2183
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:If you're going to complain about the state of ADS, please do so in a better manner than that. Whining about the changes will change nothing. And to be honest, the only legit complaint you have is about the ROF.
1. Thats your opinion 2. I did a list 3. Complaining is classed as whining anyways it seems by everyone and anyone 4. Your right that nothing will change, never does, if its anything to do with vehicles if wont ever change for the better 5. Legit complaint, again your opinion, but i find that if you are going to change things test them out, test each of the changes on there own ie AB changes 1st, then swarms speeds next, discuss with community and dont pull numbers out of your arse the day before the hotfix also helps 1) Well, you're entitled to your opinion as well. Even if your opinion is wrong (sorry, I had to do that. Been keeping that punchline stored for a while) 2) I've done my fair share of lists too. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2377325#post2377325https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2395459#post2395459https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2350873#post2350873And research is in there as well 3) Try putting math in your threads, usually cancels it out. 4) Maybe, maybe not. 5) I refer you to #2 (hehe number two)
An opinion cannot be wrong. An Alaska resident can go to California and say it's too hot, that's an opinion. Someone can say the sun revolves around the earth, well, that's not opinion, that's plain wrong as was proven with science.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote:Apparently people write in enumerated lists now, so:
1. In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? Has it dropped under 6:1? Are you an under-average pilot, or do you have a K/D ratio that suggests that ADS pilots aren't underpowered?
There really isn't a third option, given that the ADS pilot stats haven't fallen to where any reasonable person would consider the ADS underpowered, in the absence of a better argument than you've presented.
2. I appreciate that you regret the loss of the days when the average ADS pilot's K/D ratio was 20:1, but can you understand why the rest of us didn't think that was particularly balanced?
3. How would you balance the ADS, without returning to those days of ADS's with 20:1 average K/D ratios? Few of us are going to support a return to clearly over-powered ADSs.
1. In PC or pubs?
1a. PC - I dont fly in PC, you have to be the best to fly and not get taken down by some of the best FG around and even then you generally will lose 1 or 2 or 3 and it is nowhere easy to fly in PC
1b. Pubs is different, its random matchmaking, some games against noobs no AV, sometimes 2 6man squads with enough proto AV to alpha you out of the sky, problem i find is swarms since they dont render at all distances and also infantry do not render half the time either so my gunner has to spot for me which means i gimp the tank to put a extra gun on or i can infantry spot but i cant dual with swarms like i can with a FG since they never miss
1c. My KDR will have gone down but the basic problems have not been fixed for vehicles for months if not years now, a basic DS is cheaper and stronger in everyway, my AV Incubus is useless, my python is even more useless but as SP investment go im better off with a heavy suit and minigun since level 5 in ADS is useless now
2. Again balancing for pubs where matchmaking is broken and i can be again complete noobs who i will **** because AV doesnt exist to them, balance for pubs they become useless in PC where its the most competitive gamemode with proto vs proto against organized teams
3. 20/1 KDR is if you let them be in a pub match where your team is random, a FG always worked better than a SL because it requires aim and hit harder because its a heavy weapon but also requires aim and skill
3a. To even fix the ADS as a pilot i would 1st like to see infantry and also the swarm missiles ie rendering fixes
3b. Balance for PC not pubs
3c. Proper matchmaking so ADS pilots dont get thrown against noobs
3d. Basic vehicle skills added back - 5% per level for CPU/PG/ARMOR/SHIELD
3e. Make swarms anti air only
3f. Fix the swarm launcher - another thread i made https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=177891&find=unread
3g. Add in medium modules, small and heavy only how about medium mods for medium vehicles?
3h. Pilot suits - If you want to use a vehicles (not a basic LAV) you have to use a pilot suit
Prob a few that i missed
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2889
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
emm kay wrote:Gyn Wallace wrote:Apparently people write in enumerated lists now, so:
1. In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? Has it dropped under 6:1? Are you an under-average pilot, or do you have a K/D ratio that suggests that ADS pilots aren't underpowered?
There really isn't a third option, given that the ADS pilot stats haven't fallen to where any reasonable person would consider the ADS underpowered, in the absence of a better argument than you've presented.
2. I appreciate that you regret the loss of the days when the average ADS pilot's K/D ratio was 20:1, but can you understand why the rest of us didn't think that was particularly balanced?
3. How would you balance the ADS, without returning to those days of ADS's with 20:1 average K/D ratios? Few of us are going to support a return to clearly over-powered ADSs. I am an ADS pilot. 1) the only time I get above 1.0 on a game is when there is NO AV. any form of AV is now a death sentance to all dropships. 2)somewhat. then again, back in those days, a good ADS was 700k-1m/fit. and as for ISKwise effeciency, ADS was the worst way to go, even for pilots 3) well, first off Buff the ADs's tank. I think that a 20% increase in EHP is fair. Next add a low slot to both the Python and the Incubus. It makes NO sense that the ADS has less slots than the MLT dropships. Decrease swarm speed. increase swarm lock range. decrease sound made. Decrease forge gun knock back. Increase glow on PLC projectile. see? no damage tweaks. nobody complains of a nerf (maybe swarm launchers).
No, just no.
FAs official perv and lech. My dream is to turn 80 and become a dirty old man chasing skirts.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2183
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote:Apparently people write in enumerated lists now, so:
1. In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? Has it dropped under 6:1? Are you an under-average pilot, or do you have a K/D ratio that suggests that ADS pilots aren't underpowered?
There really isn't a third option, given that the ADS pilot stats haven't fallen to where any reasonable person would consider the ADS underpowered, in the absence of a better argument than you've presented.
This isn't MAG, there's no way to tell how many kills you have with a certain weapon or vehicle/turret.
2. I appreciate that you regret the loss of the days when the average ADS pilot's K/D ratio was 20:1, but can you understand why the rest of us didn't think that was particularly balanced?
If you think ADS pilots had a K/D of 20:1, then you weren't doing AV right. Plus, any slight bump against anything would cost the ship at least 1000 shield, if not more. Even landings are risky, which you wouldn't know, because you don't fly.
3. How would you balance the ADS, without returning to those days of ADS's with 20:1 average K/D ratios? Few of us are going to support a return to clearly over-powered ADSs.
Yet everybody was fine when the Cal logi and TAC ARs were OP, and screamed bloody murder when they were getting nerfed. Hell, Babar made his own thread when they were nerfing contact grenades, claiming his entire style of play was getting nerfed and that he was going to stop playing the game. Well, he didn't leave, and I had to suffer through his bad posts for longer.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2183
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
emm kay wrote:Gyn Wallace wrote:Apparently people write in enumerated lists now, so:
1. In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? Has it dropped under 6:1? Are you an under-average pilot, or do you have a K/D ratio that suggests that ADS pilots aren't underpowered?
There really isn't a third option, given that the ADS pilot stats haven't fallen to where any reasonable person would consider the ADS underpowered, in the absence of a better argument than you've presented.
2. I appreciate that you regret the loss of the days when the average ADS pilot's K/D ratio was 20:1, but can you understand why the rest of us didn't think that was particularly balanced?
3. How would you balance the ADS, without returning to those days of ADS's with 20:1 average K/D ratios? Few of us are going to support a return to clearly over-powered ADSs. I am an ADS pilot. 1) the only time I get above 1.0 on a game is when there is NO AV. any form of AV is now a death sentance to all dropships. 2)somewhat. then again, back in those days, a good ADS was 700k-1m/fit. and as for ISKwise effeciency, ADS was the worst way to go, even for pilots 3) well, first off Buff the ADs's tank. I think that a 20% increase in EHP is fair. Next add a low slot to both the Python and the Incubus. It makes NO sense that the ADS has less slots than the MLT dropships. Decrease swarm speed. increase swarm lock range. decrease sound made. Decrease forge gun knock back. Increase glow on PLC projectile. see? no damage tweaks. nobody complains of a nerf (maybe swarm launchers).
Decrease sound made? Already half the time, you don't hear them coming. 40-50% of the time, you don't see them. I've been right behind boxes, watch some scout jump 30ft into the air, release a volley, and am dumbfounded watching the box rock back and forth from invisible missiles coming at me. And this is pretty close range, too.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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ADS IS OP
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
ADS is OP
ADS is OP
ADS is OP
ADS is OP
ADS is OP |
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2183
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:emm kay wrote:Gyn Wallace wrote:Apparently people write in enumerated lists now, so:
1. In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? Has it dropped under 6:1? Are you an under-average pilot, or do you have a K/D ratio that suggests that ADS pilots aren't underpowered?
There really isn't a third option, given that the ADS pilot stats haven't fallen to where any reasonable person would consider the ADS underpowered, in the absence of a better argument than you've presented.
2. I appreciate that you regret the loss of the days when the average ADS pilot's K/D ratio was 20:1, but can you understand why the rest of us didn't think that was particularly balanced?
3. How would you balance the ADS, without returning to those days of ADS's with 20:1 average K/D ratios? Few of us are going to support a return to clearly over-powered ADSs. I am an ADS pilot. 1) the only time I get above 1.0 on a game is when there is NO AV. any form of AV is now a death sentance to all dropships. 2)somewhat. then again, back in those days, a good ADS was 700k-1m/fit. and as for ISKwise effeciency, ADS was the worst way to go, even for pilots 3) well, first off Buff the ADs's tank. I think that a 20% increase in EHP is fair. Next add a low slot to both the Python and the Incubus. It makes NO sense that the ADS has less slots than the MLT dropships. Decrease swarm speed. increase swarm lock range. decrease sound made. Decrease forge gun knock back. Increase glow on PLC projectile. see? no damage tweaks. nobody complains of a nerf (maybe swarm launchers). No, just no.
Of course not, because you have to keep your status quo.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
|
Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2889
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 13:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:emm kay wrote:Gyn Wallace wrote:Apparently people write in enumerated lists now, so:
1. In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? Has it dropped under 6:1? Are you an under-average pilot, or do you have a K/D ratio that suggests that ADS pilots aren't underpowered?
There really isn't a third option, given that the ADS pilot stats haven't fallen to where any reasonable person would consider the ADS underpowered, in the absence of a better argument than you've presented.
2. I appreciate that you regret the loss of the days when the average ADS pilot's K/D ratio was 20:1, but can you understand why the rest of us didn't think that was particularly balanced?
3. How would you balance the ADS, without returning to those days of ADS's with 20:1 average K/D ratios? Few of us are going to support a return to clearly over-powered ADSs. I am an ADS pilot. 1) the only time I get above 1.0 on a game is when there is NO AV. any form of AV is now a death sentance to all dropships. 2)somewhat. then again, back in those days, a good ADS was 700k-1m/fit. and as for ISKwise effeciency, ADS was the worst way to go, even for pilots 3) well, first off Buff the ADs's tank. I think that a 20% increase in EHP is fair. Next add a low slot to both the Python and the Incubus. It makes NO sense that the ADS has less slots than the MLT dropships. Decrease swarm speed. increase swarm lock range. decrease sound made. Decrease forge gun knock back. Increase glow on PLC projectile. see? no damage tweaks. nobody complains of a nerf (maybe swarm launchers). No, just no. Of course not, because you have to keep your status quo.
Explain what you mean?
R&B gets more kinky with every album
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3693
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 14:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Spkr proving again that you don't pay attention.
I did a series of threads detailing testing of the ADS and my conclusion which I have posted In multiple threads was that the ADS firepower needs to be brought back up a bit to compete against groundpounder AV.
But since you're always reactionary to anything I say I'm aware you can't be arsed to read my posts that are always intended to screw vehicle drivers.
To the rest this thread is posited in a fasion that is nothing short of accusative rant that appears to be an attempt to pick a fight in the forum.
Never said that he was wrong. I said he failed to prove his point or make a compelling argument.
Further until a tank can elevate hit main turret enough to hit you without getting lucky with terrain positioning I'll be more sympathetic about failing to farm an HAV.
And lastly this format and the way the OP has answered every dissenting (not even opposing) post tells me that he wants an echo chamber of people agreeing with him. This does not constitute a discussion because one side has set themselves into an antagonistic posture and maintained it from start to lock.
This thread adds nothing useful to the ADS discussion and debate. |
Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 14:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Spkr proving again that you don't pay attention.
I did a series of threads detailing testing of the ADS and my conclusion which I have posted In multiple threads was that the ADS firepower needs to be brought back up a bit to compete against groundpounder AV.
But since you're always reactionary to anything I say I'm aware you can't be arsed to read my posts that are always intended to screw vehicle drivers.
To the rest this thread is posited in a fasion that is nothing short of accusative rant that appears to be an attempt to pick a fight in the forum.
Never said that he was wrong. I said he failed to prove his point or make a compelling argument.
Further until a tank can elevate hit main turret enough to hit you without getting lucky with terrain positioning I'll be more sympathetic about failing to farm an HAV.
And lastly this format and the way the OP has answered every dissenting (not even opposing) post tells me that he wants an echo chamber of people agreeing with him. This does not constitute a discussion because one side has set themselves into an antagonistic posture and maintained it from start to lock.
This thread adds nothing useful to the ADS discussion and debate.
1. Your threads were highly misleading
1a. Your situations in which you tested the ADS and swarms were specific situations which do not exist in pubs let alone PC so it automatically means the results would be false and not trustworthy
1b. Did your threads even take into account that pilots rarely see swarms in mid air and where they are fired from because rendering problems and same with actual infantry on the ground or the rock back when trying to dual a SL user?
2. Rant? More like experience in playing the game from a pilots view, a rant would be a wall of text with no spaces
3. Fight the forum? well the forums is very pro infantry and pro no skill weapons like swarms so maybe i am fighting the forum and ccp aswell
4. A tank no cannot elevate its turret? is that what you want? You do know COD has no vehicles
5. Echo chamber? No i see that pro swarm threads mostly, anything for vehicles is opposed at every opportunity |
CUSE TOWN333
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1771
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 14:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:1. You do not play from the pilots perspective, or rarther you will not and complain that all pilots give you is anecdotal evidence which happens to be more reliable that your graphs
2. Pull random numbers from your arse - ie ADS ROF numbers
3. Nerfing and buffing at the same time - I understood the AB nerf but yet you dont understand that its the DS only counter to swarms, so what do you do at the same time? you buff swarms so we cant outrun them
4. More nerfing - With the Railgun ROF nerf you decided in your wisdom or stupidity to add on the ADS nerf which cripples the railgun and incubus
5. You dont understand the role of vehicles - You call ASSUALT dropships TRANSPORT? ASSAULT is used for ASSAULTING positions its why it has a gun on it for the pilot to kill infantry and vehicles and it can only trasport 2ppl at a time unless you manage to gimp your fit and put on small turrets. Also at a time we had LOGISTIC dropships which were used from transport and general LOGISTIC things
Bonus - For all you idiots who actually believe in the lolcpm and judge who you voted to be your vehicle candidate and represent pilots, well he failed you and has pulled a jenza and gone awol but found time to play destiny but not to comment on all the vehicle changes including his beloved ds, so another one who does it for the free trip to china but no suprise to the 95% of ppl who really dont care and didnt vote
Anymore? i say nerf the ADS more because this LvL of butthurt is classic.
KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3694
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 14:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nice list.
Even better use of misleading information to make your points. I especially liked the complaint that you can't OHK infantry.
Tell you what. You may OHK infantry when my forge gun OHKs your dropship. |
Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2890
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 14:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Nice list.
Even better use of misleading information to make your points. I especially liked the complaint that you can't OHK infantry.
Tell you what. You may OHK infantry when my forge gun OHKs your dropship.
Amount of shots required to shoot required infantry, I can assure you this isn't misleading:
Scouts: 1-2 Sometimes 3 if they're really plate and shield stacked
Assaults: 2-4 usually
Logis: 2-4 as well
Commandos: 2-3
Heavies: 5-8 depending on what type of fatty. (8ish for a proper cal fatty)
Keep in mind I'm using splash damage.
Edit: And no, I don't think this needs to be looked at.
R&B gets more kinky with every album
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3694
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 15:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Nice list.
Even better use of misleading information to make your points. I especially liked the complaint that you can't OHK infantry.
Tell you what. You may OHK infantry when my forge gun OHKs your dropship. Amount of shots required to shoot required infantry, I can assure you this isn't misleading: Scouts: 1-2 Sometimes 3 if they're really plate and shield stacked Assaults: 2-4 usually Logis: 2-4 as well Commandos: 2-3 Heavies: 5-8 depending on what type of fatty. (8ish for a proper cal fatty) Keep in mind I'm using splash damage. Edit: And no, I don't think this needs to be looked at.
It fits my findings with the understanding that those shots all hit.
And the calsent takes six. Three extenders, energizer and rep is six shot with proto missiles. |
Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 15:36:00 -
[29] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Nice list.
Even better use of misleading information to make your points. I especially liked the complaint that you can't OHK infantry.
Tell you what. You may OHK infantry when my forge gun OHKs your dropship.
1. No counter to any of my points and you complain about no discussions
2. I can only OHK if the player i am shooting at has less HP than the direct damage of the missile, hint direct damage which isnt easy considering the missile has travel time, the target is moving unless its a sniper so i need splash and the OHK would be on low level suits, fighting proto sentinals with FG is a different kettle of fish
3. Some DS you can nearly OHK, sweet spot on gal DS too for extra dmg, general take 3-4 shots from an AFG, obv aim required |
ResistanceGTA
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N
D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1629
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 15:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Nice list.
Even better use of misleading information to make your points. I especially liked the complaint that you can't OHK infantry.
Tell you what. You may OHK infantry when my forge gun OHKs your dropship. Amount of shots required to shoot required infantry, I can assure you this isn't misleading: Scouts: 1-2 Sometimes 3 if they're really plate and shield stacked Assaults: 2-4 usually Logis: 2-4 as well Commandos: 2-3 Heavies: 5-8 depending on what type of fatty. (8ish for a proper cal fatty) Keep in mind I'm using splash damage. Edit: And no, I don't think this needs to be looked at. It fits my findings with the understanding that those shots all hit. And the calsent takes six. Three extenders, energizer and rep is six shot with proto missiles.
I'll confirm that Cal Sentinels only really take slightly more of a beating than others, mainly due to the realignment of Missile damage profiles.
If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known.
Also, Raptors...
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Kaeru Nayiri
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
91
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 16:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
Please kill this thread with fire. It's going nowhere. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3695
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 16:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kaeru Nayiri wrote:Please kill this thread with fire. It's going nowhere.
And it never will
|
Jack 3enimble
Vengeance Unbound
Dark Taboo
435
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 16:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:If you're going to complain about the state of ADS, please do so in a better manner than that. Whining about the changes will change nothing. And to be honest, the only legit complaint you have is about the ROF.
I've faced you many times in your ADS. I respect your flying skills and non bias towards the ADS changes. |
Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 12:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Kaeru Nayiri wrote:Please kill this thread with fire. It's going nowhere. And it never will
1. Thats because SL users will never admit to problems with the SL
2. The SL problems offers a big advantage to the users
3. The SL problems offers a big disadvantage to all vehicle pilots
4. Aslong as the SL problems favour the users nothing will be said about it because it is only balanced when it favors infantry
5. SL users are always the problem when it comes to balancing it because any changes from the status quo ie fixing the problems is bad for infantry
6. SL users never want to discuss the obvious problems with the SL if it leads to it being fixed and the users losing the obvious disadvantage |
Gyn Wallace
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
136
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 14:52:00 -
[35] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote: In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now?
You never answered this question. Or did I miss your answer? Perhaps the single most important piece of information you can possibly tell us about your experience as an ADS pilot. You wrote a long response as though the difference between PC and pubs was important, but you never gave up a number. I don't care if you give me two numbers, once for PC and one for pubs. I don't care if you're imprecise, giving me a rough approximation, but I would like to know what your K/D ratio is as an ADS pilot.
Leaving that number out of your first post is a large part of why most people will read your first post as a whine rather than a constructive complaint.
|
Gabriella Grey
THE HANDS OF DEATH
RUST415
190
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 15:46:00 -
[36] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote:Apparently people write in enumerated lists now, so:
1. In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? Has it dropped under 6:1? Are you an under-average pilot, or do you have a K/D ratio that suggests that ADS pilots aren't underpowered?
There really isn't a third option, given that the ADS pilot stats haven't fallen to where any reasonable person would consider the ADS underpowered, in the absence of a better argument than you've presented.
2. I appreciate that you regret the loss of the days when the average ADS pilot's K/D ratio was 20:1, but can you understand why the rest of us didn't think that was particularly balanced?
3. How would you balance the ADS, without returning to those days of ADS's with 20:1 average K/D ratios? Few of us are going to support a return to clearly over-powered ADSs.
The assault dropship variants are underpowered, and kill death ratio is not something important to any dropship pilot. If they have been flying long from trial and error, add grinding ambush isk runs, veteran pilots, and etc. This kdr number is already broken beyond repair. As it stands dropships don't destroy other vehicles unless they have help from A/V or another vehicle. The slow rate of fire for the small turrets on the dropship eliminates it from engaging infantry and vehicles with a meaningful purpose. The only people you will see flying dropships are those who still enjoy flying, and pilots with the majority of their skill points invested into dropships and vehicle modules. As it stands it takes the best fittings or what most would consider a prototype fitting with a dropship for it to survive in most pub and PC games a like. Lazer Fo Cused from what I have understand is asking for game balance. Lazer may be emotional about this but we all have at one point in time on the forums due to changes that effect us.
Always Grey Skies
Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
|
Gyn Wallace
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
136
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 17:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
Gabriella Grey wrote:Gyn Wallace wrote: ... In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? ... The assault dropship variants are underpowered, ...
A K/D ratio of about 15:1 for ADS pilots after the nerf, doesn't seem particularly underpowered.
|
Dust User
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
856
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 17:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
Hey I got an idea for all you crybaby ADS pilots.
When the swarm launchers come out fly to another part of the map. |
postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
255
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 18:35:00 -
[39] - Quote
2OP> First of all boyo, you should check what is definition of dropship.
Its DROP-SHIP
Basicaly its supporting taxi for infantry.
Yup it can shoot, but its still TAXI
"Ultimate Loggi, Pirmatar and fabulous Tinker since 2012"
|
jace silencerww
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
60
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 19:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
postapo wastelander wrote:2OP> First of all boyo, you should check what is definition of dropship. Its DROP-SHIP Basicaly its supporting taxi for infantry. Yup it can shoot, but its still TAXI
lol funny that is what the logi dropship was for. it had a cru built-in. the ASSAULT dropship is for attacking point, ground troops and vehicles. if I remember right the turrets on the logi vehicles did HALF damage. |
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Gabriella Grey
THE HANDS OF DEATH
RUST415
190
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 20:23:00 -
[41] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote:Gabriella Grey wrote:Gyn Wallace wrote: ... In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? ... The assault dropship variants are underpowered, ... A K/D ratio of about 15:1 for ADS pilots after the nerf, doesn't seem particularly underpowered.
Your making these numbers up.
Always Grey Skies
Leader of the Alpaca Commandos
|
Gyn Wallace
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
137
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 21:32:00 -
[42] - Quote
Gabriella Grey wrote:Gyn Wallace wrote:Gabriella Grey wrote:Gyn Wallace wrote: ... In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? ... The assault dropship variants are underpowered, ... A K/D ratio of about 15:1 for ADS pilots after the nerf, doesn't seem particularly underpowered. Your making these numbers up.
I don't remember whether I heard that number from someone who was talking about what CCP has told the CPM about the ADS balance, or whether I read that somewhere in these very forums, from a blue tagged post. I'm not making that number up. Its entirely consistent with my experience in matches though. I hardly ever see an ADS pilot in the kill feed. Do you doubt its accuracy because you're K/D as an ADS pilot is worse?
I still haven't seen an ADS pilot in this thread report what their K/D ratio is. Would they be so hesitant to report that number if it supported their claims that the ADS are underpowered?
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
543
|
Posted - 2014.10.19 22:23:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kdr with dropships is meaningless until we get them blowing up when they hit 0 hp, as it's really the dropships death that counts, that's what costs the money and does the damage, not the suit that calls in an LAV to head back to the redzone.
But I actually posted to say there's a lot of bullshit about ads not being good vs vehicles anymore, we've never needed the RoF to blow up anything other than rep stacked tanks (which didn't blow up before hand anyway.)
I've managed a 30 - 0 with an ads in Delta, but that's because no one brought anything above militia grade swarms out.
As before, the lack of skilled AV is the only reason for the stupid swarm buffs so that every man and his dog can ruin the av-v battles by popping a vehicle without putting any effort in.
Although inadvertent at least we don't have to deal with turret stacking anymore, since it's not worth it. |
TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
1356
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 11:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
Urgent Announcement !!!!
To coincide with the ADS being a flying coffin .. CCP Rattati has teamed up with Quafe !!!
Update 1.99999 recurring will give pilots access to a shiny pink ADS !!! WoooHoooo
Now pilots !! fear not !!! you can now dazzle the enemy Swamers with your swagger !!!!
Data shows that, when confronting a shiny pink ADS the AVer is 80% more likely to stand down, thinking
'Damn that thing looks pretty, it would be a shame to take that kitten out of the sky'
Once again.. the Data reigns supreme and cannot be argued.
Innapropriate Irrelevence...
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 13:05:00 -
[45] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote:Gyn Wallace wrote: In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? You never answered this question. Or did I miss your answer? Perhaps the single most important piece of information you can possibly tell us about your experience as an ADS pilot. You wrote a long response as though the difference between PC and pubs was important, but you never gave up a number. I don't care if you give me two numbers, once for PC and one for pubs. I don't care if you're imprecise, giving me a rough approximation, but I would like to know what your K/D ratio is as an ADS pilot. Leaving that number out of your first post is a large part of why most people will read your first post as a whine rather than a constructive complaint.
1. KDR is not important and can be changed up or down due to a number of different factors
1a. PC vs pubs - PC is organized bring out your proto gear, pubs is very relient on matchmaking working (doesnt work) in which you hope that you are not against 2 6man squads while you have academy randoms not too mention are you solo or in a squad and what is the squad composition?
1b. The ADS - Incubus was the anti vehicle ADS, i say was because its ability has been severely diminished but because it was used to engage other vehicles not many kills were had because sometimes the pilot jumped out like with a DS or LAV, generally HAV pilots stayed in the vehicle. The Python is the anti infantry ADS but also weaker than the Incubus even though most AV weapons deal most damage to armor, its lighter to fly but gets knock around easier and when you land you can lose all your shield and try not to hit anything or it dies.
1c. Missiles - That is what i see on all the ADS now, railgun/blaster are useless against infantry and add the splash its good for clearing links and splashing the enemy
1d. AV - Some pubs games i can encounter no AV or militia at best, this can give me clear skies and the ability to get 20+ kills a game, other games im put against 2 6man squad with proto AV and while 1 FG can shut me down so can 1 SL user, add in anymore i can easily lose 1 ADS and i will not get 10kills
1e. Pilot skill - The ADS is by far the hardest vehicle to master and a wrong hit by AV can send you into the nearest wall
1f. Rendering - This is by far my biggest problem, how can i kill AV if i cannot see them? how can i take evasive action if i cannot see if missiles are coming towards me? this alone alters my KDR more than it should since i cannot effectively pick my battles against AV infantry or normal infantry
1g. Pilot stacking - Required 2 players, both with ADS skill to max would be be for best results, was fearsome in the air but did require 2 to use, i would have taken off my gun if i could as i liked to pilot and only pilot as side gunner did more damage, made the ADS more fun but my KDR did not change much as i did not shoot
2. With the above ADS changes, lack of rendering and taking pub games into account it will have moved down but overall its because i do not fly that much anymore, the Python is retired and inferior to the Incubus but also the std dropship has more slots for tank, can take more hits and do what it needs to do without costing me alot of ISK
2a. The ADS doesnt give me enough ISK at the end of the game, all i have for WP is either kills, gunner kills, WP from uplinks if i land or transport assist points and 3 of them can be done in a stronger basic DS with a cheaper price
3. KDR is not availible since i play many roles and i hover about 4 as standard and use lots of throwaway BPO suits which are cheap and get the job done
4. Your 15-1 KDR estimate i feel is off by quite a bit
4a. Do you fly? |
Gyn Wallace
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
138
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 15:21:00 -
[46] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Gyn Wallace wrote:Gyn Wallace wrote: In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? You never answered this question. ... 1. KDR is not important ... That's nice that you think so. I disagree. I suspect that several developers at CCP disagree. I suspect the people on the other side of that average ~15:1 K/D for ADS pilots disagree.
That was a very long post that avoided answering the question, again. Why is it about your K/D ratioas an ADS pilot that keeps you from revealing it? Is it so high that it completely undermines your position that ADS are underpowered? Is it so far below average for ADS pilots that that it indicates that you are underpowered, rather than the ADS?
I don't mind answering your questions, but first I'd like a straight answer to the very first question I asked you. If you think ADS are underpowered, why are you avoiding an honest answer to a simple question about your K/D ratio as an ADS pilot?
You think 15:1 is too high, well what do you think yours is? 10:1? 5:1?
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3756
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 15:32:00 -
[47] - Quote
KDR is useless as a metric in a team based tactical game. It's only useful as a metric in free for all games.
If you base everything off KDR in DUST then the only "good" players are literally the ones fastest to exploit FOTM and overpowered mechanics.
Because you can have a 6.0 KDR and still have your team get your ass handed to it, KDR only tells you one of three things:
1: you're risk averse.
2: you only snipe. (See risk averse)
3. You are monofocused on kills and don't care about tactical objectives
4: You are in a solid, coordinated squad or team.
The top three are solo pubstar idiots.
The last one is what you should be striving for. |
Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
35
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 15:37:00 -
[48] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Gyn Wallace wrote:Gyn Wallace wrote: In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? You never answered this question. ... 1. KDR is not important ... That's nice that you think so. I disagree. I suspect that several developers at CCP disagree. I suspect the people on the other side of that average ~15:1 K/D for ADS pilots disagree. That was a very long post that avoided answering the question, again. Why is it about your K/D ratioas an ADS pilot that keeps you from revealing it? Is it so high that it completely undermines your position that ADS are underpowered? Is it so far below average for ADS pilots that that it indicates that you are underpowered, rather than the ADS? I don't mind answering your questions, but first I'd like a straight answer to the very first question I asked you. If you think ADS are underpowered, why are you avoiding an honest answer to a simple question about your K/D ratio as an ADS pilot? You think 15:1 is too high, well what do you think yours is? 10:1? 5:1?
1. I see you have ignored the rest of the post that takes into account various factors which can alter the KDR and my lifetime KDR is around 4
2. ADS are underpowered if they cannot do what they are built to do and in the case of the Incubus it cannot effectively kill vehicles and that is the whole point of that particular ADS, the Python on the other hand uses missiles but it is weaker than the Incubus and is more vunerable to AV, add in other problems such as rendering and recent changes to the AB, swarm missile speed and basic DS buff it turns out the basic DS is better in everyway
3. Same as point 1. Impossible to give you a straight answer since i dont know my ADS KDR and various factors in pubs and PC changes it while each game is completely different
4. What my KDR is will differ from the average pilot, i would say im above average in an ADS but nowhere near the best, if im quick enough at the start of the match with a missile incubus i can maybe rack up a quick 10kills before enough AV is brought out or hitting me hard enough to either die or recall. I dont use the Python because its weaker and more fragile to everything
4a. If rendering is really bad i wont fly and just recall
5. CCP make changes according to data instead of taking into account actual game experience ie ADS ROF nerf
6. Do you fly?
6a. Are you skilled into vehicles? ADS in particular? Have you flown in a PC? Do you fly on a regular basis? |
Gyn Wallace
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
138
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Posted - 2014.10.20 16:03:00 -
[49] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:KDR is useless as a metric in a team based tactical game.
I'm primarily a logi, my job is to make other people's KDR better. I get it. I agree with most of your post, but saying KDR is useless goes just a little too far. Its not the be-all-end-all of measurements, but it can indicate an imbalance. No one would sit back and say, "nothing to see here, nothing to worry about" if a change to Rail rifles, caused their users to jump from a 3:1 KDR to a 60:1 KDR.
No one is suggesting that there aren't factors that mitigate the usefulness of KDR, but just like a 60:1 KDR would jump out at you and suggest that something might be wrong there, the old ADS KDR of 20:1 was a pretty good, numerical rather than feelings based, summary of a pretty big problem with how OP the old ADS were.
Now they've dropped from 20:1 to 15:1. What exactly is the problem, and how do we tell whether its a real problem, or just a perception from mediocre pilots losing their favorite crutch? There are still a bunch of good ADS pilots out there wrecking people. That 15:1 is just an average.
If we're not going to use numbers, and we're just going on people's feelings, I'd wager there are a whole lot more players like me, who have gone from feeling like a fight with an ADS is completely hopeless if I'm not on a FG character, to now having a chance, even though I'm still more likely to lose a fight against an ADS than win it. That's balanced. ADS are expensive, in isk and skills, they should win most of their fights. They do. But they shouldn't be a nearly risk-free way of turning every match into a contest of who has the most ADS (or scouts). :D
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Gyn Wallace
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
138
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 16:13:00 -
[50] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:
1. I see you have ignored the rest of the post that takes into account various factors which can alter the KDR and my lifetime KDR is around 4
Ok, so as far as we know, that ~15:1 KDR figure is accurate. You dont have enough recent experience as an ADS pilot to let you say, "Oh no in my experience the ADS pilots KDR has dropped to ____."
I guess neither of us is in a position to tell CCP that they've nerfed the ADS too much. I can say as a user of proto-swarms, the balance feels pretty good right now. Proto-swarms don't feel even a little OP. I think I'm catching poor pilots, but more often than not, ADS pilots kill me or get away. That's fine. Even when I coordinate with other AV, smart pilots are still getting away, repping, and coming back.
When I coordinate with two or three other AV, we're much more likely to kill the ADS, but not always. Sometimes good pilots drive more of us in to AV suits, then hang back out of lock range, but still present on the field, until their allies on the ground roll through us. Even without getting a single kill, an ADS pilot can have a disproportionate influence on winning the match for his team. That's not underpowered.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3756
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Posted - 2014.10.20 16:40:00 -
[51] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote:No one would sit back and say, "nothing to see here, nothing to worry about" if a change to Rail rifles, caused their users to jump from a 3:1 KDR to a 60:1 KDR.
It is a useless metric in general.
Now from a balance standpoint you're right.
But if a sh*t player suddenly goes from 1.0 to 4.2 average the question pops up: Is it the fact that he swapped to the Rail Rifle? or is it because he joined a buncha PC tryhards who taught him how to coordinate, and then he stopped going solo entirely?
First is a possibility.
The second one is the most likely by far.
Plus you can't nerf weapons based on team synergy.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Lazer Fo Cused
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
35
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Posted - 2014.10.20 17:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
Gyn Wallace wrote:Lazer Fo Cused wrote:
1. I see you have ignored the rest of the post that takes into account various factors which can alter the KDR and my lifetime KDR is around 4
Ok, so as far as we know, that ~15:1 KDR figure is accurate. You dont have enough recent experience as an ADS pilot to let you say, "Oh no in my experience the ADS pilots KDR has dropped to ____." I guess neither of us is in a position to tell CCP that they've nerfed the ADS too much. I can say as a user of proto-swarms, the balance feels pretty good right now. Proto-swarms don't feel even a little OP. I think I'm catching poor pilots, but more often than not, ADS pilots kill me or get away. That's fine. Even when I coordinate with other AV, smart pilots are still getting away, repping, and coming back. When I coordinate with two or three other AV, we're much more likely to kill the ADS, but not always. Sometimes good pilots drive more of us in to AV suits, then hang back out of lock range, but still present on the field, until their allies on the ground roll through us. Even without getting a single kill, an ADS pilot can have a disproportionate influence on winning the match for his team. That's not underpowered.
1. Wrong again
2. Incubus - When the Incubus cannot kill a vehicle it is not fufilling its role, the Python can still fufill it roles but overall is weaker than a missile Incubus and the ROF difference is meh
2a. When in general less ADS are being deployed even in pub games and more general DS are being used then it tells you that it is either too expensive or not worth using
3. If 2 AV cannot kill an ADS then you are doing wrong
3a. If 3 AV cannot kill an ADS then you are doing wrong and should find another game to play
4. If an ADS drives you to go AV its either because you want to kill it because it there to kill or the ADS is doing its role so you have to go AV. Im my experience so far i go AV because i just want to kill it not because its doing its role because more often that not i can drive it away on my own, if i dont go AV it doesnt bother me or impact my game
4a. If the ADS drives everyone to go AV and stays on the field they are mostly likely 'thinking if they should recall' or 'looking for where the AV is' or just thinking imma float up here and afkish while annoying the enemy' or 'stick around to annoy the enemy' or 'directing infantry/asking to find and kill the AV'
4b. When i fly i do all of that in 4a to try and weigh it up if im more useful in the air or on the ground, if the game is lost i just stick at the flight celing and stay alive because pubs matches are not important
4c. In PC different kettle of fish, if your useless your a waste of space literally |
Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
559
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 18:06:00 -
[53] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Urgent Announcement !!!!To coincide with the ADS being a flying coffin .. CCP Rattati has teamed up with Quafe !!! Update 1.99999 recurring will give pilots access to a shiny pink ADS !!! WoooHoooo Now pilots !! fear not !!! you can now dazzle the enemy Swamers with your swagger !!!! Data shows that, when confronting a shiny pink ADS the AVer is 80% more likely to stand down, thinking 'Damn that thing looks pretty, it would be a shame to take that kitten out of the sky' Once again.. the Data reigns supreme and cannot be argued.
I'm not interested unless when you blow it up there's pink fireworks and fluffy bunnys come shooting out of it... That will dazzle both teams to the point you can just run around and melee everyone to death. |
DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14730
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Posted - 2014.10.20 19:31:00 -
[54] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:If you're going to complain about the state of ADS, please do so in a better manner than that. Whining about the changes will change nothing. And to be honest, the only legit complaint you have is about the ROF.
Pretty sure whining is what prompted the changea in the first place.
(pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
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postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
267
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Posted - 2014.10.20 19:43:00 -
[55] - Quote
jace silencerww wrote:postapo wastelander wrote:2OP> First of all boyo, you should check what is definition of dropship. Its DROP-SHIP Basicaly its supporting taxi for infantry. Yup it can shoot, but its still TAXI lol funny that is what the logi dropship was for. it had a cru built-in. the ASSAULT dropship is for attacking point, ground troops and vehicles. if I remember right the turrets on the logi vehicles did HALF damage.
Hello DROP..SHIP
(what is difficult on name DROPSHIP, its not attacker or fighter)
Assault dropship was meant like dropship what will be faster and more powerfull, but still dropship.
If you want attack, wait for interceptors.
Hell check introducing to vehicles.
"The dropshipGÇÖs function is to support ground units by laying down fire from its two turrets, and deploy infantry reinforcements where needed. This most maneuverable vehicle is capable of hover flight, the better to quickly insert fresh infantry into a hot zone, then fall back and lay down suppressive fire from the air."
ERGO
ARMED TAXI
(I dont seen anything about attacking points, only possibilitz of supressive fire)
"Ultimate Loggi, Pirmatar and fabulous Tinker since 2012"
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3768
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Posted - 2014.10.20 22:14:00 -
[56] - Quote
The OP is annoying but pigeonholing roles is how we achieved the various clusterf**ks in sentinel and scout balance.
Let's avoid trying to tell people how they are allowed to play with stuff.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Gyn Wallace
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
138
|
Posted - 2014.10.20 22:51:00 -
[57] - Quote
Lazer Fo Cused wrote:Gyn Wallace wrote:Ok, so as far as we know, that ~15:1 KDR figure is accurate. You dont have enough recent experience as an ADS pilot to let you say, "Oh no in my experience the ADS pilots KDR has dropped to ____."
I guess neither of us is in a position to tell CCP that they've nerfed the ADS too much. ...
1. Wrong again
You keep announcing your unsupported opinions as though they're suppose to persuade other players, i.e. the people on the other side of that 15:1 KDR average that ADS pilots currently enjoy. How many of them do you suppose think that number is too high?
How many people do you suppose find your opinion about what's right or wrong persuasive? I'd wager that most people viewing this thread don't even bother to read more than three lines from each of your posts. Punctuation and the occasional short sentence really help readers get through whatever ideas you hope to present them. Numbering is helpful if you want to be able to refer back to what was written, but try organizing your thoughts into paragraphs, with topic sentences. That's more important than the numbering you're currently using. Its worse than useless; it helps readers identify which posts they can safely scan through without missing anything. Anything particularly entertaining will probably be quoted in a subsequent post.
I meant for that last paragraph to be helpful. I wasn't trying to write like a colossal tool. Oh well.. I'm pretty sure this horse is dead. |
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