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@Rattari: How you broke the ADS

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Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 136	Posted - 2014.10.17 13:31:00 - [1] - Quote Apparently people write in enumerated lists now, so: 1. In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? Has it dropped under 6:1? Are you an under-average pilot, or do you have a K/D ratio that suggests that ADS pilots aren't underpowered? There really isn't a third option, given that the ADS pilot stats haven't fallen to where any reasonable person would consider the ADS underpowered, in the absence of a better argument than you've presented. 2. I appreciate that you regret the loss of the days when the average ADS pilot's K/D ratio was 20:1, but can you understand why the rest of us didn't think that was particularly balanced? 3. How would you balance the ADS, without returning to those days of ADS's with 20:1 average K/D ratios? Few of us are going to support a return to clearly over-powered ADSs.
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 136	Posted - 2014.10.19 14:52:00 - [2] - Quote Gyn Wallace wrote: In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? You never answered this question. Or did I miss your answer? Perhaps the single most important piece of information you can possibly tell us about your experience as an ADS pilot. You wrote a long response as though the difference between PC and pubs was important, but you never gave up a number. I don't care if you give me two numbers, once for PC and one for pubs. I don't care if you're imprecise, giving me a rough approximation, but I would like to know what your K/D ratio is as an ADS pilot. Leaving that number out of your first post is a large part of why most people will read your first post as a whine rather than a constructive complaint.
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 136	Posted - 2014.10.19 17:07:00 - [3] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: Gyn Wallace wrote: ... In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? ... The assault dropship variants are underpowered, ... A K/D ratio of about 15:1 for ADS pilots after the nerf, doesn't seem particularly underpowered.
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 137	Posted - 2014.10.19 21:32:00 - [4] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: Gyn Wallace wrote: Gabriella Grey wrote: Gyn Wallace wrote: ... In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? ... The assault dropship variants are underpowered, ... A K/D ratio of about 15:1 for ADS pilots after the nerf, doesn't seem particularly underpowered. Your making these numbers up. I don't remember whether I heard that number from someone who was talking about what CCP has told the CPM about the ADS balance, or whether I read that somewhere in these very forums, from a blue tagged post. I'm not making that number up. Its entirely consistent with my experience in matches though. I hardly ever see an ADS pilot in the kill feed. Do you doubt its accuracy because you're K/D as an ADS pilot is worse? I still haven't seen an ADS pilot in this thread report what their K/D ratio is. Would they be so hesitant to report that number if it supported their claims that the ADS are underpowered?
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 138	Posted - 2014.10.20 15:21:00 - [5] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Gyn Wallace wrote: Gyn Wallace wrote: In your experience as an ADS pilot, what's your kill/death ratio now? You never answered this question. ... 1. KDR is not important ... That's nice that you think so. I disagree. I suspect that several developers at CCP disagree. I suspect the people on the other side of that average ~15:1 K/D for ADS pilots disagree. That was a very long post that avoided answering the question, again. Why is it about your K/D ratioas an ADS pilot that keeps you from revealing it? Is it so high that it completely undermines your position that ADS are underpowered? Is it so far below average for ADS pilots that that it indicates that you are underpowered, rather than the ADS? I don't mind answering your questions, but first I'd like a straight answer to the very first question I asked you. If you think ADS are underpowered, why are you avoiding an honest answer to a simple question about your K/D ratio as an ADS pilot? You think 15:1 is too high, well what do you think yours is? 10:1? 5:1?
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 138	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:03:00 - [6] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: KDR is useless as a metric in a team based tactical game. I'm primarily a logi, my job is to make other people's KDR better. I get it. I agree with most of your post, but saying KDR is useless goes just a little too far. Its not the be-all-end-all of measurements, but it can indicate an imbalance. No one would sit back and say, "nothing to see here, nothing to worry about" if a change to Rail rifles, caused their users to jump from a 3:1 KDR to a 60:1 KDR. No one is suggesting that there aren't factors that mitigate the usefulness of KDR, but just like a 60:1 KDR would jump out at you and suggest that something might be wrong there, the old ADS KDR of 20:1 was a pretty good, numerical rather than feelings based, summary of a pretty big problem with how OP the old ADS were. Now they've dropped from 20:1 to 15:1. What exactly is the problem, and how do we tell whether its a real problem, or just a perception from mediocre pilots losing their favorite crutch? There are still a bunch of good ADS pilots out there wrecking people. That 15:1 is just an average. If we're not going to use numbers, and we're just going on people's feelings, I'd wager there are a whole lot more players like me, who have gone from feeling like a fight with an ADS is completely hopeless if I'm not on a FG character, to now having a chance, even though I'm still more likely to lose a fight against an ADS than win it. That's balanced. ADS are expensive, in isk and skills, they should win most of their fights. They do. But they shouldn't be a nearly risk-free way of turning every match into a contest of who has the most ADS (or scouts). :D
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 138	Posted - 2014.10.20 16:13:00 - [7] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: 1. I see you have ignored the rest of the post that takes into account various factors which can alter the KDR and my lifetime KDR is around 4 Ok, so as far as we know, that ~15:1 KDR figure is accurate. You dont have enough recent experience as an ADS pilot to let you say, "Oh no in my experience the ADS pilots KDR has dropped to ____." I guess neither of us is in a position to tell CCP that they've nerfed the ADS too much. I can say as a user of proto-swarms, the balance feels pretty good right now. Proto-swarms don't feel even a little OP. I think I'm catching poor pilots, but more often than not, ADS pilots kill me or get away. That's fine. Even when I coordinate with other AV, smart pilots are still getting away, repping, and coming back. When I coordinate with two or three other AV, we're much more likely to kill the ADS, but not always. Sometimes good pilots drive more of us in to AV suits, then hang back out of lock range, but still present on the field, until their allies on the ground roll through us. Even without getting a single kill, an ADS pilot can have a disproportionate influence on winning the match for his team. That's not underpowered.
Gyn Wallace OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 138	Posted - 2014.10.20 22:51:00 - [8] - Quote Lazer Fo Cused wrote: Gyn Wallace wrote: Ok, so as far as we know, that ~15:1 KDR figure is accurate. You dont have enough recent experience as an ADS pilot to let you say, "Oh no in my experience the ADS pilots KDR has dropped to ____." I guess neither of us is in a position to tell CCP that they've nerfed the ADS too much. ... 1. Wrong again You keep announcing your unsupported opinions as though they're suppose to persuade other players, i.e. the people on the other side of that 15:1 KDR average that ADS pilots currently enjoy. How many of them do you suppose think that number is too high? How many people do you suppose find your opinion about what's right or wrong persuasive? I'd wager that most people viewing this thread don't even bother to read more than three lines from each of your posts. Punctuation and the occasional short sentence really help readers get through whatever ideas you hope to present them. Numbering is helpful if you want to be able to refer back to what was written, but try organizing your thoughts into paragraphs, with topic sentences. That's more important than the numbering you're currently using. Its worse than useless; it helps readers identify which posts they can safely scan through without missing anything. Anything particularly entertaining will probably be quoted in a subsequent post. I meant for that last paragraph to be helpful. I wasn't trying to write like a colossal tool. Oh well.. I'm pretty sure this horse is dead.

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