I don't like this implications of the word "exploitable" to describe the previous state of PC.

I don't like this implications of the word "exploitable" to describe the previous state of PC.

It took a LOT of hard work on the part of everyone engaged in warfare to keep and hold land, and the passive ISK was the carrot on the stick to encourage such effort.

That ISK inspired the best content that ever happened in this game, 3 humongous wars with infighting and backstabbing galore.

And now what?

You can play in PC and win, but if you lose enough suits you still come up negative.

Who the hell wants to raise armies, organize practices, and run grueling campaigns for THAT?

Removing passive ISK killed the high-end content in this game, and bringing that ISK back will get that content flowing again.

Was it an isk faucet? YES, but the game needs a real source of income. Was the Isk Faucet too big? YES! But that can be fixed by TURNING DOWN THE FAUCET.

Were corps hoarding too much land? YES. But if you want to prevent people from squatting on too much land (relative to their size), then reduce the time slots available for timers! Make it so that timers can only be set at two hour intervals and a corp can only hold 12 districts unless they can field two teams.

Totally removing all passive ISK from PC was an excessive measure with nothing to replace the mechanic, and it's time to get over that dogma and hit the undo button.

Also, blue donuts in Dust were NEVER as stable as blue donuts in Eve, even with all the bugs and flaws in PC. The donuts were always crumbling and being reformed. Content was always being generated right up to the point where the incentive was removed.

The "undo button" should never be pressed because: Passive Isk was always a bad idea and the forum knew it before PC had even been officially released.

Returning Passive Isk will not fix the problem, it will only cause it to get worse. There is no incentive to fight because none of you actually want to fight, you simply want to farm. It was obvious way back when that that is what would occur and what happened? If you really wanted to fight, you wouldn't care about going negative fiscally, you'd be fighting for the fights and doing it in [STARTER_FIT]s if that is what it took.

Now the former farmers are crying for the return of their meal ticket, I say let the Passive Isk stay dead and move forward with developing some other reasonable method of incentivizing participation in PC. There should definitely be a way by which PC is a profitable endeavor, however, this profit should not come in the form of free Isk just for sitting on a District.

The old method was silly and made no sense in the context of New Eden. Comparing the old PIG faucet to its closest corollary in Eve (Moon Mining), you find that PC is as close to risk free isk as you can get in New Eden. You sit on a District and poof, your Corp Wallet starts ticking up numbers while you kiss your neighbors ass to not attack you so you can both farm in peace...

It didn't have to be completely removed, 2 million ISK per day would've been fair.

1) SO, returning isk to PC wonGÇÖt incentive-ize people to fight? The amount of PC activity is basically DEAD compared to how it was with passive isk.

2) Ok, so if people run prototype gear in pubs, thatGÇÖs protostomping, and if people run proto in PC, thatGÇÖs being fiscally irresponsibleGǪ so where do people run their high-end gear, work hard, and turn a profit? Why even have high end gear then?

I get your other points about how the mechanic makes no sense, but given that updates to Dust are now delivered exclusively via limited Hotfixes, weGÇÖre not getting real markets and weGÇÖre not getting PVE. This greatly limits the amount of risk and effort that can be added into ISK generation via districts.

I say put passive ISK back, lower the generation rate, fix locking, and limit timers so corps canGÇÖt hoard land.

The alternative is to have the game continually grow stale due to lack of incentive.

1) I never said that returning Passive Isk to PC wouldn't incentivize people to fight. It would, though it would result in the same thing that happened before and if you think otherwise, you're a fool.

2) When did I say that running PRO gear in PC was fiscally irresponsible? I didn't, you twisted my words to create that statement. If you are participating in PC with it's increased payouts and you can't stay in the black while running PRO, you shouldn't be running PRO gear in PC, simple as.

Adding Passive Isk back into the mix will only recreate the debacle we had before, we need many, many things done before Passive Isk should even be a consideration.

I love how you completely gloss over my assertion about fighting for the fights, save to twist my words into something that I didn't say.

I fight for the fights, I don't participate in PC because I have no intention of kissing ass to be a part of the incrowd and I have neither the manpower nor the deep pockets for ringers.

You've all been brainwashed that passive isk is inherently bad, and that may be true, but you are totally ignoring what is possible given the situation, and totally ignoring, via ignorance or selective reasoning, the GOOD that came with passive ISK.

I'm speaking from experience and close observation, and you're not.

Nobody who was close to the action, or at least watching Dustcharts or Dotlan would ever deny that there was constant warfare during the passive ISK days.

Even admitting to donuts is admitting to warfare.

Where do donuts come from? Fighting people for their land. Then they quickly fall apart due to infighting(greed), and because someone else wants to take over the map and make their own little empire.

Rinse, repeat.

It provided the best content in this game's history, and the problems with it(accessibility, number of timers, hoarding, locking) can be addressed.

I think that some clever person could think of a GREAT system to replace passive ISK, but the best proposals are unlikely due to the restraints on Dust development activity.

You've all been brainwashed that passive isk is inherently bad, and that may be true, but you are totally ignoring what is possible given the situation, and totally ignoring, via ignorance or selective reasoning, the GOOD that came with passive ISK.

You say you are speaking from experience and close observation and that I am not.

I respond that you have been desensitized by proximity and blinded to how bad Passive Isk is and how it is toxic to/for the community as a whole (about which you obviously give no **** since you only care about you and your circlejerk buddies).

I have an outside perspective, I am therefore capable of making unbiased observations unlike yourself. You actually think that the "good" (your term, not mine) that came from PC outweighed the bad. I hate to tell you this (actually no I don't), but you and the rest of the circlejerk becoming stupid rich at the expense of new players and everyone else in the community who didn't want to kiss your asses is not good.

If we had to sacrifice the PC participant portion of the community to bring back all of the people we've lost due to the asshattery of the PC participant portion of the community, I'd move forward with the plan without a second thought.

Yeah, I typed it, I'd sacrifice a small (cancerous) percentage of the playerbase who honestly don't care about the game beyond their own fictional wallet balance for a playerbase that was 10 (if not 100) fold what it is now.

And you need to stop posting. PC players care FAR MORE about this game then the rest of you do. FAR MORE.

lolno kiddo

Those who are against Passive Isk are not against Passive Isk because they've never succeeded, there are those of us who were against it before it was even officially released (Do I have to post the link again?).

Just because you kissed ass and played exclusionary games with all of the other people who refused to kiss ass means **** all to everyone who isn't in your little circlejerk.

You mean, they tried to play conquest in a conquest mode?! How dare those jerks!! It's almost like - they tried to play the game! That's not isolating people - that is just how conquest games work. The weak will get expelled until they can come back harder. The fault of PC is that CCP has no avenue for corps to use to gain entry into PC without loads of ISK and taxing members - but that's what CCP intended - they wanted you to recruit a lot of people and tax them to prepare for PC.

But, far as development vs PC fix goes - I'm with you on that. Fix the core first. But everything about how PC is right now is wrong compared to how it was when passive ISK was around - corps don't fight, there's no war, no meta, it's just stale and keeps getting staler.

The weak will get expelled until they can come back harder.

The fault of PC is that CCP has no avenue for corps to use to gain entry into PC without loads of ISK and taxing members - but that's what CCP intended - they wanted you to recruit a lot of people and tax them to prepare for PC.

But, far as development vs PC fix goes - I'm with you on that. Fix the core first. But everything about how PC is right now is wrong compared to how it was when passive ISK was around - corps don't fight, there's no war, no meta, it's just stale and keeps getting staler.

You do realize district locking has long since been fixed, right? The only way to do it now is at a considerable loss.