DUST Search - Return Passive Isk to PC

Soraya Xel wrote:

Haerr wrote:

Soraya Xel wrote:

hfderrtgvcd wrote:

What's the point of getting territory if the only thing you can do with it is get clones to get more territory?

That is one of the multiple inherent problems with Planetary Conquest. I think it's unredeemably broken, but I'm open to ideas how to make it better.

PC - Random Surprises

What PC district owners want is a way to make ISK off of their controlled territory.

This is where Raids/Invasions (Pirate raid or Sansha invasion) comes in.

Any district at full capacity that is not under attack is subject to the possibility of a Raid/Invasion during their timer.

A Raid/Invasion spawns a contract ~5-20 mins before the timer, depending on how many clones the Pirates send but also to make it more tedious for corps to attempt blocking and/or farming raids on their own territory using alts.

Squads which have one or more players which are in corps that hold a district in MH are unable to accept raid/invasion contracts.

The Pirate faction should take into account how successful a corp is at defending their districts when spawning contracts - the more a corp wins against the raiders the more seldom the Pirates will launch attacks against them.

'Just a rough mock up; if the CPM thinks it is worth exploring (i.e. if it is at all possible to implement) then the community can pitch in to fill out the gaps.

Maybe it will be possible to do team deploy in combination with this since it is such a sought after feature.

Haerr, a raid system doesn't sound horrible, but again, the idea of restricting to people in or out of corps with districts just leads to altcorping. ;) Districts could be held by one or two man corps that just ring in their team. Also, if anything, being successful defending against raids should lead to more contracts being spawned, as the only way to maintain churn is to keep the stress high on top end landholders.

Not Jebus's alt. // Now residing in Ana. // ... I think I might be one of Appia's alts ...

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Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4004	Posted - 2014.10.07 13:51:00 - [31] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: As for Passive ISK, how rich did the mercs in PC get via this? and you cut it off .... understandable But cutting it off without removing some of the ISK that fell from the sky leaves only those who got In first and started farming early can afford battle costs no issue, why would newer mercs want to compete with that? Very rich. Unfortunately, removing ISK from players gets very very dicey. Especially since in some cases, players may have spent AUR on gear used to "earn" it. TheD1CK wrote: A passive ISK payment COULD be restored and have it factor that 1 District pays X ammount Adding a second district brings in 75% of X. A third District brings 50% of X. And no.4 brings 25% of X District no.5 pays no passive ISK, And district no.6 comes at a cost, so a passive payout rather than income Each District from 6 + costs an increasing ammount for your corp to control. This is frequently proposed EVE side to fix sov, and it's flawed here for the same reason it is there. Nyain San 1 holds a district, Nyain San 2 holds a district, Nyain San 3 holds a district, Nyain San 4 holds a district, etc. In a sandbox environment, artificial limits like that are fairly easy to circumvent. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 386	Posted - 2014.10.07 14:47:00 - [32] - Quote PC balancing is nearly impossible ya know why? Cause dust isnt eve where you just need a large amount of scrubs to hold land/take it. Dust is set in a relatively fair enviroment and that is 16vs16. You cannot bring more players and most certainly each players FPS skill is important. Those with faster reflexes and aiming will allwayws be superior over the masses of scrubs. If this game would be 32vs32 then you could make more of a difference in PC matches. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4004	Posted - 2014.10.07 14:57:00 - [33] - Quote Nah, Bright Cloud, then you'd just have groups of 32 pro players versus 32 scrubs. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 698	Posted - 2014.10.07 15:12:00 - [34] - Quote What if we take Cavanis idea of 2 Million per District, but, each day you hold said district you get paid less and less (1.8 Million, 1.6 Million, etc), therefore encouraging your corp to take other districts if you still wish to collect the isk from it. Might actually liven up PC a bit so daily fights return. Only issue I see is GTA corps flipping each others districts daily with no shows. So to make it harder, what if we changed it so you cant attack a district held by an Alliance Member, forcing, as an example, FA to attack say a PE district if they want isk, rather than an ML or GAM district for flipping. I'll expand the idea further at some point. The Connoisseur of Weapons. 19/19 L5 P1. "GET BACK HERE YOU SCRUB" - Lorelei Zee 2014
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4004	Posted - 2014.10.07 15:17:00 - [35] - Quote Denchlad 7 wrote: What if we take Cavanis idea of 2 Million per District, but, each day you hold said district you get paid less and less (1.8 Million, 1.6 Million, etc), therefore encouraging your corp to take other districts if you still wish to collect the isk from it. Might actually liven up PC a bit so daily fights return. Only issue I see is GTA corps flipping each others districts daily with no shows. So to make it harder, what if we changed it so you cant attack a district held by an Alliance Member, forcing, as an example, FA to attack say a PE district if they want isk, rather than an ML or GAM district for flipping. I'll expand the idea furrher at some point. I see you caught the problem with your own idea. But your proposed solution is also flawed. I am affiliated somewhat with the Goons, though we are not in an alliance. Corps could leave an alliance just so they can flip districts back and forth. Or they could just use alt corps. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3436	Posted - 2014.10.07 15:17:00 - [36] - Quote You add diminishing returns to held districts, ordered by value. Your first district is 100% benefit. Second district is 80% benefit, 3rd tier 60 and so on, with every district past the 5th being worth only 5% of it's total value while retaining all costs to maintain.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4004	Posted - 2014.10.07 15:27:00 - [37] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: You add diminishing returns to held districts, ordered by value. Your first district is 100% benefit. Second district is 80% benefit, 3rd tier 60 and so on, with every district past the 5th being worth only 5% of it's total value while retaining all costs to maintain. Altcorps? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3439	Posted - 2014.10.07 15:30:00 - [38] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: You add diminishing returns to held districts, ordered by value. Your first district is 100% benefit. Second district is 80% benefit, 3rd tier 60 and so on, with every district past the 5th being worth only 5% of it's total value while retaining all costs to maintain. Altcorps? Soraya think very hard and tell me of any system ever in EVE or other game that the players never figured out how to exploit and game the ever living sh*t out of. But see my previous post about opening PC district flipping to all corps so that people pulling blue donut crap can be utterly screwed by being lazy.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4004	Posted - 2014.10.07 15:35:00 - [39] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Soraya think very hard and tell me of any system ever in EVE or other game that the players never figured out how to exploit and game the ever living sht out of. Planetary Conquest should not be enabled to ruin the rest of the game. If we can't come up with an at least mildly* robust framework for PC ISK generation that isn't donutable, it shouldn't be allowed to come back. I'm only poking holes in ideas so that everyone can get on the same page of why this is so problematic to solve, so that hopefully someone can figure out a solution that will work. Breakin Stuff wrote: But see my previous post about opening PC district flipping to all corps so that people pulling blue donut crap can be utterly screwed by being lazy. Which post? CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 698	Posted - 2014.10.07 15:35:00 - [40] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Denchlad 7 wrote: ~snippity snoopity I love the booty~ I see you caught the problem with your own idea. But your proposed solution is also flawed. I am affiliated somewhat with the Goons, though we are not in an alliance. Corps could leave an alliance just so they can flip districts back and forth. Or they could just use alt corps. Realistically though, how many of said corps would run without an Alliance again? And as Breakin said, we will find a way of exploiting whatever system is put in place anyway. And Breakins idea is quite good too. Add the payment system in place, and ERA in their prime and NS would find it extremely hard and not cost efficient at all to hold that much land. The Connoisseur of Weapons. 19/19 L5 P1. "GET BACK HERE YOU SCRUB" - Lorelei Zee 2014

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4004	Posted - 2014.10.07 15:36:00 - [41] - Quote Denchlad 7 wrote: Realistically though, how many of said corps would run without an Alliance again? And as Breakin said, we will find a way of exploiting whatever system is put in place anyway. The problem is, alliances don't matter. The actual alliance structure is nothing but a name badge on the forums. The actual "alliance" is people's willingness to work together, and as long as that still exists, corps will be happy to drop alliance in order to exploit the mechanic. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 699	Posted - 2014.10.07 15:38:00 - [42] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Denchlad 7 wrote: Realistically though, how many of said corps would run without an Alliance again? And as Breakin said, we will find a way of exploiting whatever system is put in place anyway. The problem is, alliances don't matter. The actual alliance structure is nothing but a name badge on the forums. The actual "alliance" is people's willingness to work together, and as long as that still exists, corps will be happy to drop alliance in order to exploit the mechanic. True. Issue is, if we find a fix to that, something else will be exploited is some way or another. I'll +1 Breakins earlier linked post however. The Connoisseur of Weapons. 19/19 L5 P1. "GET BACK HERE YOU SCRUB" - Lorelei Zee 2014
Haerr Clone Manque 1583	Posted - 2014.10.07 15:59:00 - [43] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: What's the point of getting territory if the only thing you can do with it is get clones to get more territory? That is one of the multiple inherent problems with Planetary Conquest. I think it's unredeemably broken, but I'm open to ideas how to make it better. PC - Random Surprises What PC district owners want is a way to make ISK off of their controlled territory. This is where Raids/Invasions (Pirate raid or Sansha invasion) comes in. Any district at full capacity that is not under attack is subject to the possibility of a Raid/Invasion during their timer. A Raid/Invasion spawns a contract ~5-20 mins before the timer, depending on how many clones the Pirates send but also to make it more tedious for corps to attempt blocking and/or farming raids on their own territory using alts. Squads which have one or more players which are in corps that hold a district in MH are unable to accept raid/invasion contracts. The Pirate faction should take into account how successful a corp is at defending their districts when spawning contracts - the more a corp wins against the raiders the more seldom the Pirates will launch attacks against them. 'Just a rough mock up; if the CPM thinks it is worth exploring (i.e. if it is at all possible to implement) then the community can pitch in to fill out the gaps. Maybe it will be possible to do team deploy in combination with this since it is such a sought after feature. Not Jebus's alt. // Now residing in Ana. // ... I think I might be one of Appia's alts ...
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4019	Posted - 2014.10.07 15:59:00 - [44] - Quote Okay, so after further explanation on Skype, Breakin's concepts are distinctly Not Awful(TM), though it would probably involve some pretty heavy code work on CCP's part. Lot of good ideas on how CCP can move forward with real territorial gameplay in the future. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4019	Posted - 2014.10.07 16:08:00 - [45] - Quote Haerr wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: What's the point of getting territory if the only thing you can do with it is get clones to get more territory? That is one of the multiple inherent problems with Planetary Conquest. I think it's unredeemably broken, but I'm open to ideas how to make it better. PC - Random Surprises What PC district owners want is a way to make ISK off of their controlled territory. This is where Raids/Invasions (Pirate raid or Sansha invasion) comes in. Any district at full capacity that is not under attack is subject to the possibility of a Raid/Invasion during their timer. A Raid/Invasion spawns a contract ~5-20 mins before the timer, depending on how many clones the Pirates send but also to make it more tedious for corps to attempt blocking and/or farming raids on their own territory using alts. Squads which have one or more players which are in corps that hold a district in MH are unable to accept raid/invasion contracts. The Pirate faction should take into account how successful a corp is at defending their districts when spawning contracts - the more a corp wins against the raiders the more seldom the Pirates will launch attacks against them. 'Just a rough mock up; if the CPM thinks it is worth exploring (i.e. if it is at all possible to implement) then the community can pitch in to fill out the gaps. Maybe it will be possible to do team deploy in combination with this since it is such a sought after feature. Haerr, a raid system doesn't sound horrible, but again, the idea of restricting to people in or out of corps with districts just leads to altcorping. ;) Districts could be held by one or two man corps that just ring in their team. Also, if anything, being successful defending against raids should lead to more contracts being spawned, as the only way to maintain churn is to keep the stress high on top end landholders. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Haerr Clone Manque 1583	Posted - 2014.10.07 16:12:00 - [46] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Haerr wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: What's the point of getting territory if the only thing you can do with it is get clones to get more territory? That is one of the multiple inherent problems with Planetary Conquest. I think it's unredeemably broken, but I'm open to ideas how to make it better. PC - Random Surprises What PC district owners want is a way to make ISK off of their controlled territory. This is where Raids/Invasions (Pirate raid or Sansha invasion) comes in. Any district at full capacity that is not under attack is subject to the possibility of a Raid/Invasion during their timer. A Raid/Invasion spawns a contract ~5-20 mins before the timer, depending on how many clones the Pirates send but also to make it more tedious for corps to attempt blocking and/or farming raids on their own territory using alts. Squads which have one or more players which are in corps that hold a district in MH are unable to accept raid/invasion contracts. The Pirate faction should take into account how successful a corp is at defending their districts when spawning contracts - the more a corp wins against the raiders the more seldom the Pirates will launch attacks against them. 'Just a rough mock up; if the CPM thinks it is worth exploring (i.e. if it is at all possible to implement) then the community can pitch in to fill out the gaps. Maybe it will be possible to do team deploy in combination with this since it is such a sought after feature. Haerr, a raid system doesn't sound horrible, but again, the idea of restricting to people in or out of corps with districts just leads to altcorping. ;) Districts could be held by one or two man corps that just ring in their team. Also, if anything, being successful defending against raids should lead to more contracts being spawned, as the only way to maintain churn is to keep the stress high on top end landholders. Oh well, maybe there will some other chance to get Guristas Scout suits... ^_^ Not Jebus's alt. // Now residing in Ana. // ... I think I might be one of Appia's alts ...
Haerr Clone Manque 1583	Posted - 2014.10.07 16:15:00 - [47] - Quote Hold on maybe if there was a fee to field non corp members in defence of a raid? (So that it would only be profitable with a full corp team.) Not Jebus's alt. // Now residing in Ana. // ... I think I might be one of Appia's alts ...
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2239	Posted - 2014.10.07 16:20:00 - [48] - Quote Aside from my idea for PvE integration / "Farms and Fields," I don't see a much better option than what we have now. ISK should be earned on way or another, simply holding land isn't a very "content filled" feature. As things are, ISK is "passively" generated as your districts create clones. Use these clones to attack other districts and if you win, you earn money. You don't have to take over the district, just fight the 2-3 re-ups (I'm not too sure on the specifics) and no show the last. If you take the district, you can sell it back or to another corp. It's most efficient to do this because clone packs cost about as much as winning, so it's very inefficient to solely use them instead of district clones. Again, I'm not too familiar on the numbers, but if PC isn't worth doing, perhaps increasing the payouts could incentives more players. Dust was real! I was there! Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4021	Posted - 2014.10.07 16:21:00 - [49] - Quote Haerr wrote: Hold on maybe if there was a fee to field non corp members in defence of a raid? (So that it would only be profitable with a full corp team.) You'd also need a tax to joining or leaving corps as well, which would have larger effects on the game as a whole. Otherwise people would just jump around. I think there's merit in the notion of just spawning assault raids from pirate factions on districts that would degrade clone counts and income. Within one's timer, it could be expected that they must either defend, or the district might just end up "unclaimed" if they don't. Another thing I think may be key to fixing PC is randomizing the PC timers (with heavier weight to time zones where there are more players on) and then disabling timer changes. The ability to stash 50 districts in the 12:00 timer has to end for any rework of PC to succeed. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Haerr Clone Manque 1583	Posted - 2014.10.07 16:32:00 - [50] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Haerr wrote: Hold on maybe if there was a fee to field non corp members in defence of a raid? (So that it would only be profitable with a full corp team.) You'd also need a tax to joining or leaving corps as well, which would have larger effects on the game as a whole. Otherwise people would just jump around. I think there's merit in the notion of just spawning assault raids from pirate factions on districts that would degrade clone counts and income. Within one's timer, it could be expected that they must either defend, or the district might just end up "unclaimed" if they don't. Another thing I think may be key to fixing PC is randomizing the PC timers (with heavier weight to time zones where there are more players on) and then disabling timer changes. The ability to stash 50 districts in the 12:00 timer has to end for any rework of PC to succeed. Perhaps requiring that a player has been a corp member for a full day before being able to participate would work? I dislike the 00:00 & 01:00 timers just as much as the 12:00 timers! Besides failing to successfully defend a district makes it vulnerable to opportunist attacks from other PC corps... Not Jebus's alt. // Now residing in Ana. // ... I think I might be one of Appia's alts ...

Haerr Clone Manque 1583	Posted - 2014.10.07 16:34:00 - [51] - Quote Say no to PvE! This is an opportunity for the PC corps to provide content to the non-PC corps! Not Jebus's alt. // Now residing in Ana. // ... I think I might be one of Appia's alts ...
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4021	Posted - 2014.10.07 16:46:00 - [52] - Quote Haerr wrote: Perhaps requiring that a player has been a corp member for a full day before being able to participate would work? I dislike the 00:00 & 01:00 timers just as much as the 12:00 timers! Besides failing to successfully defend a district makes it vulnerable to opportunist attacks from other PC corps... Maybe. That's a very restrictive system though. Not sure it's very sandbox-y. The concept of weighting timers by player population would mean there would always be timers for all time zones. Just more of them where there's more players to use them. So ideally, in any given time zone, you'd have a proportional number of districts to the playerbase. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 786	Posted - 2014.10.07 17:02:00 - [53] - Quote Having attacks take place the same day they're launched would fix a lot. It's a whole lot harder getting ringer teams with 30 minute notice vs 24-48 hours.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4024	Posted - 2014.10.07 17:16:00 - [54] - Quote Dust User wrote: Having attacks take place the same day they're launched would fix a lot. It's a whole lot harder getting ringer teams with 30 minute notice vs 24-48 hours. The question is, is it right to turn maintaining districts into a job, where you must have a full team logged in every day at the same time, or risk losing your district without a fight? And while this would hurt vet corps ability to assemble ringers, a lot of newer corps wouldn't be able to manage under this system at all. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4024	Posted - 2014.10.07 17:18:00 - [55] - Quote Side note: Really loving the ideas and discussion coming out of the thread, even if they're ideas I try to shoot down. Definitely hoping to bring this thread to CCP and have a discussion on how to revive PC. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 786	Posted - 2014.10.07 17:24:00 - [56] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Dust User wrote: Having attacks take place the same day they're launched would fix a lot. It's a whole lot harder getting ringer teams with 30 minute notice vs 24-48 hours. The question is, is it right to turn maintaining districts into a job, where you must have a full team logged in every day at the same time, or risk losing your district without a fight? And while this would hurt vet corps ability to assemble ringers, a lot of newer corps wouldn't be able to manage under this system at all. Maintaining districts is already a job. This idea probably wouldn't work too well now because nobody cares anymore but if it would have been this way from the start I think PC would be in a very different state right now. Losing your district would be a good thing. District flips need to be way easier to accomplish. Under the current system winning 3 consecutive battles on possibly 3 separate days is ridiculous. New corps can't manage now so why not try something new.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1721	Posted - 2014.10.07 17:49:00 - [57] - Quote Dust User wrote: Maintaining districts is already a job. And that there ladies and gentlemen sums up in just 6 words everything that is wrong with the PC game mechanic. And when I think about all the dev time it gobbled up when things like new weapons, suits, racial parity, balance, vehicles etc etc would've benefited the game more, I get a little depressed. CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2536	Posted - 2014.10.07 17:54:00 - [58] - Quote PC is pointless without actual EVE integration, at least FW has an effect EVE side as well as giving players Loyalty Points that can be spent on Aurum Substitutes or specialist/state gear that is flat-out just "Better." At this point I'd like to see a removal of the pointless PC and re-introduce Corp Matchmaking, until we actually find a reason why anyone should give a damn about owning literally useless land that has zero effect Dust side or EVE side. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3457	Posted - 2014.10.07 17:58:00 - [59] - Quote I'm brainstorming a proposal at the moment. Let's see if I can iron out the OBVIOUS kinks and exploits, then make it simple as possible.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 787	Posted - 2014.10.07 18:34:00 - [60] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: PC is pointless without actual EVE integration, at least FW has an effect EVE side as well as giving players Loyalty Points that can be spent on Aurum Substitutes or specialist/state gear that is flat-out just "Better." At this point I'd like to see a removal of the pointless PC and re-introduce Corp Matchmaking, until we actually find a reason why anyone should give a damn about owning literally useless land that has zero effect Dust side or EVE side. There is a point to owning land, it's called having Clan Battles. Once you get hooked it makes pubs so unenjoyable and boring. For all the fail PC has become it is still one of the best Clan Battle systems in any game I've ever played. Most games with so called "clan support" have no way of setting up battles without q-syncing and crossing your fingers that you actually get in the same game.



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