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hfderrtgvcd
661
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Posted - 2014.10.06 20:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
There is basically no incentive to own more than a handful of districts anymore. District locking is now impossible so I fail to see why it should not be returned. It would breathe some life back into pc and encourage more corporations to take part.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
4881
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Posted - 2014.10.06 20:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
I think it should return as well, but it doesn't need to be as high as it was.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
PSN: wbrom42
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
3979
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Posted - 2014.10.06 20:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Passive ISK should not be returned to PC while there's no viable way to prevent rampant exploitation that will in turn be used to harm other game modes. The end to district locking didn't prevent a complete lock-up of any sort of competition in the mode so everyone could just sit back and rake in ISK. Nothing has been done that will prevent another Dirt Nap Squad-esque situation where 98% of the districts are just free farming slots.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
3979
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Posted - 2014.10.06 20:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
As a note, if anyone has ideas on how we can make PC viable and difficult to exploit, without like, you know, introducing PvE, please share. Just remember my newly coined Soraya's Law: "Stupid ideas tend to be exploitable."
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Cavani1EE7
Murphys-Law
304
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Posted - 2014.10.06 21:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Passive ISK should not be returned to PC while there's no viable way to prevent rampant exploitation that will in turn be used to harm other game modes. The end to district locking didn't prevent a complete lock-up of any sort of competition in the mode so everyone could just sit back and rake in ISK. Nothing has been done that will prevent another Dirt Nap Squad-esque situation where 98% of the districts are just free farming slots.
It didn't have to be completely removed, 2 million ISK per day would've been fair. |
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
3979
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Posted - 2014.10.06 21:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cavani1EE7 wrote:It didn't have to be completely removed, 2 million ISK per day would've been fair.
2 million ISK a day for no effort is still free money. For General Tso's Alliance, that'd be 296,000,000 ISK every day for free.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
3424
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Posted - 2014.10.06 21:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
PC should never have been one-match endeavors. when the lock timers went off the corp contracts should have gone out to every merc corp with an attack/defend option. If you could muster a full team, you can participate. District win/loss is weighted so the lion's share of the district fight goes to the defending and attacking corp of course.
If you win, your corp earns 40% of the total win/loss count, with the rest being subdivided among the other corps that participate. That way if you LOSE, there is a slim chance that the random pubbies who defend will save your bacon, or burn your house down.
You cannot control who can attack/defend. You can only ban corps that are caught Awoxing and teamkill spreeing, giving you the option to lock them out of future corp contracts. Yes CCP should let you look at the team stats at the end.
if the overall count of 55% victory goes to the attacker, the district flips, if to the defender, the district locks and goes back into safe mode.
End-of-day reward is 3m ISK deposited to the corp wallet to represent taxes, fines, biomassed rivals, etc. District locks for 72 hours.
Locks must be staggered so all time zones have available PC battles every day.
Current battle payouts are formulated for High-risk, high-reward, with victorious corps paid richly, and losing corps get a pub welfare check.
Is it idiot proof?
No. But if your district comes open and neither you or the attacker battle for your district, you have just handed over the fate of your property to random a**hats who may or may not care about whether you get to keep the loot. |
Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
1207
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Posted - 2014.10.06 21:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Passive ISK affects other game modes so it should never return. The idea is to promote good fights and simply having hundreds of districts to fight over for no reason is a problem. The districts should merely be the set up for tournament style competition. Every district should be ranked, 1 to whatever, and no corp team should be able to hold more than one district, then we all play to see how high we can get. You can challenge only three spots above your current rank. It is all about pride and bragging rights so it should be about proving how good you are.
Because, that's why.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
3982
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Posted - 2014.10.06 21:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:Passive ISK affects other game modes so it should never return. The idea is to promote good fights and simply having hundreds of districts to fight over for no reason is a problem. The districts should merely be the set up for tournament style competition. Every district should be ranked, 1 to whatever, and no corp team should be able to hold more than one district, then we all play to see how high we can get. You can challenge only three spots above your current rank. It is all about pride and bragging rights so it should be about proving how good you are.
This isn't a bad idea in itself, a ranked league scenario. But it's not even close to related to Planetary Conquest, which is meant to be a territorial fight. Your suggestion sounds like an entirely separate type of mechanic.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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hfderrtgvcd
663
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Posted - 2014.10.06 21:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:Passive ISK affects other game modes so it should never return. The idea is to promote good fights and simply having hundreds of districts to fight over for no reason is a problem. The districts should merely be the set up for tournament style competition. Every district should be ranked, 1 to whatever, and no corp team should be able to hold more than one district, then we all play to see how high we can get. You can challenge only three spots above your current rank. It is all about pride and bragging rights so it should be about proving how good you are. This isn't a bad idea in itself, a ranked league scenario. But it's not even close to related to Planetary Conquest, which is meant to be a territorial fight. Your suggestion sounds like an entirely separate type of mechanic. What's the point of getting territory if the only thing you can do with it is get clones to get more territory?
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Dust User
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
783
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Posted - 2014.10.06 21:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Remove the 24+ hour timers and payout ISK weekly instead of everyday. |
Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
3985
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Posted - 2014.10.06 21:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:What's the point of getting territory if the only thing you can do with it is get clones to get more territory?
That is one of the multiple inherent problems with Planetary Conquest. I think it's unredeemably broken, but I'm open to ideas how to make it better.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Atiim
12800
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Posted - 2014.10.06 21:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
I think it should, simply because that would create an incentive to hold a district. What's sad about the current system, is that the only way to obtain a constant stream of revenue is through constant victories.
Which turn, encourages bigger and better organizations to attack nothing but the weaker and inexperienced groups, as they're guaranteed to make a profit.
The 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game RUST415
498
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Posted - 2014.10.06 22:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Passive isk should be killed... With fire... & stay dead... Poke it with a fiery piece of metal and make sure it stays down!!!
But yeah if you got isk based on what you destroy that would work. The same thing should be done for pubs as well. It does suck going all out to win a battle and getting jack **** for it, unless you spam enough matches to be sure you get a few wins.
Pub matches still have proto teams that keep going no matter how many suits you down, because for every bad match they'll get a few 100% profit matches... If everyone could afford to use a few proto suits in pubs there wouldn't be a problem...
It may even end the camp the redzone for money, if people got a decent payout for trying to win pub matches. |
Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
3349
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Posted - 2014.10.06 23:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Returning passive ISK will solve so many problems and provide actual incentive.
Tanker/Logi/Assault
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Viktor Hadah Jr
Negative-Impact Gentlemen's.Club
5298
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Posted - 2014.10.06 23:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Passive ISK might be better although it is still a sh*t mechanic that can easily be manipulated. and under the passive ISK mechanic PC was a literal blue donut under one alliance for months because not many corps in this game has the balls to fight anymore no matter what way PC is done.
EVE 21 Day Trial
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
4627
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Posted - 2014.10.07 00:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
I was thinking about this earlier, and had a couple ideas. They are mutually exclusive, and having absolutely zero PC experience may be completely ridiculous, so you let me know.
They are not completely fleshed out, so maybe they are just idea starters and could help someone with more experience spark a better one, or give them some additions and changes that make them more viable.
Scenario 1: Tiered districts. As it stands, it costs one price to attack any district, and you get one set of rewards. What if there were multiple tiers?
For example, you could have certain districts that would cost 5 mil to attack, others 10, 20, and 40. Each will have rewards that are proportional.
This would enable smaller corps to participate without onerous costs, and could provide enough benefits for them to move up in tiers.
Scenario 2: The costs of attacking a district were reduced the longer a corp held one (this also assumes passive isk). I see this as a way to prevent some of the blue donut that happened previously.
By enabling more corps, who may not be in an alliance, to attack long held districts, they would hypothetically have incentive to attack a corps districts, and perhaps put enough of a corps districts at risk that a corp with a lot of districts couldn't simply hold on to all of them for a long time. Also, this could incentivize a corp in an alliance to break that alliance with the cost/benefit analysis being sweetened over time. Perhaps there are mechanics I am not aware of that would negate this, but that was my thinking.
You can always tell a Millford Minja
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
3350
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Posted - 2014.10.07 00:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
As far as other Ideas CCP can include a 100% salvage rate (the more salvage you get the more likely its something you can actually use)
Adding the ability for officer weapons to be salvaged and not just from the enemy team but to get pub like drops of 3 officer weapons and preferably that drop rate increased
Adding ISK to the corp wallet for every victory. A huge problem right now is without passive ISK corps have trouble recovering getting into PC because you have to win at least two battles to flip a district costing the corp 100 million ISK (if you don't lose the re-up and have to start over) and their is no way to recuperate ISK without either donations, tax, or friendly locking. Tax is tricky because why should people who don't participate in PC have to pay for PC, and select groups in the individual PC having to pay 6,250,000 each on top of suit costs will make everyone go ISK negative and having your first few attempts in PC cost you millions even if you succeed in getting a district is discouraging. Another thing is that contrary to popular belief even when you own a district attacks are not free it costs 10,000 a clone so about 1.5-4.5 mil per transfer so if you flipped 4 Cargo hubs in a week you would lose 18 million. The ISK received would help get rid of or at least loosen these costs.
Decrease clone pack cost to 45million the formula for clones to ISK for a clone pack has always been 300,000 = 1 clone it was that way when 100 clone Clone Packs costed 30m and when 120 clone Clone Packs costed 36m so why the 5 mil increase.
My last idea is CCP should provide incentives that change such as hosting PC events such as: Every member of the corp owning the most districts on oddelulf will receive 3 copies of ever officer side arm. Their can be prizes of officer weapons or ISK or Boosters or really anything attached to certain Districts/Planets/systems for certain periods of time.
Tanker/Logi/Assault
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hfderrtgvcd
672
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Posted - 2014.10.07 00:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:I was thinking about this earlier, and had a couple ideas. They are mutually exclusive, and having absolutely zero PC experience may be completely ridiculous, so you let me know.
They are not completely fleshed out, so maybe they are just idea starters and could help someone with more experience spark a better one, or give them some additions and changes that make them more viable.
Scenario 1: Tiered districts. As it stands, it costs one price to attack any district, and you get one set of rewards. What if there were multiple tiers?
For example, you could have certain districts that would cost 5 mil to attack, others 10, 20, and 40. Each will have rewards that are proportional.
This would enable smaller corps to participate without onerous costs, and could provide enough benefits for them to move up in tiers.
Scenario 2: The costs of attacking a district were reduced the longer a corp held one (this also assumes passive isk). I see this as a way to prevent some of the blue donut that happened previously.
By enabling more corps, who may not be in an alliance, to attack long held districts, they would hypothetically have incentive to attack a corps districts, and perhaps put enough of a corps districts at risk that a corp with a lot of districts couldn't simply hold on to all of them for a long time. Also, this could incentivize a corp in an alliance to break that alliance with the cost/benefit analysis being sweetened over time. Perhaps there are mechanics I am not aware of that would negate this, but that was my thinking.
They're good ideas but I don't think they would be possible because the cost of a clone is constant. If you implement your idea you would have to completely rework the way clones are bought and sold. Scenario 2 would also be far too easy to abuse.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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hfderrtgvcd
672
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Posted - 2014.10.07 00:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:As far as other Ideas CCP can include a 100% salvage rate (the more salvage you get the more likely its something you can actually use)
Adding the ability for officer weapons to be salvaged and not just from the enemy team but to get pub like drops of 3 officer weapons and preferably that drop rate increased
Adding ISK to the corp wallet for every victory. A huge problem right now is without passive ISK corps have trouble recovering getting into PC because you have to win at least two battles to flip a district costing the corp 100 million ISK (if you don't lose the re-up and have to start over) and their is no way to recuperate ISK without either donations, tax, or friendly locking. Tax is tricky because why should people who don't participate in PC have to pay for PC, and select groups in the individual PC having to pay 6,250,000 each on top of suit costs will make everyone go ISK negative and having your first few attempts in PC cost you millions even if you succeed in getting a district is discouraging. Another thing is that contrary to popular belief even when you own a district attacks are not free it costs 10,000 a clone so about 1.5-4.5 mil per transfer so if you flipped 4 Cargo hubs in a week you would lose 18 million. The ISK received would help get rid of or at least loosen these costs.
Decrease clone pack cost to 45million the formula for clones to ISK for a clone pack has always been 300,000 = 1 clone it was that way when 100 clone Clone Packs costed 30m and when 120 clone Clone Packs costed 36m so why the 5 mil increase. great ideas
My last idea is CCP should provide incentives that change such as hosting PC events such as: Every member of the corp owning the most districts on oddelulf will receive 3 copies of ever officer side arm. Their can be prizes of officer weapons or ISK or Boosters or really anything attached to certain Districts/Planets/systems for certain periods of time. lol no
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
9670
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Posted - 2014.10.07 00:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
I'm hoping CCP doesn't repeat this broken system in Legion.
On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
4629
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Posted - 2014.10.07 01:37:00 -
[22] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote: They're good ideas but I don't think they would be possible because the cost of a clone is constant. If you implement your idea you would have to completely rework the way clones are bought and sold. Scenario 2 would also be far too easy to abuse.
Could you vary the tiers by number of clones needed to attack?
Would it even make a difference if they were able to implement a tiered system, or would it just end up changing things and getting the same, or a worse, outcome?
You can always tell a Millford Minja
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hfderrtgvcd
679
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Posted - 2014.10.07 02:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote: They're good ideas but I don't think they would be possible because the cost of a clone is constant. If you implement your idea you would have to completely rework the way clones are bought and sold. Scenario 2 would also be far too easy to abuse.
Could you vary the tiers by number of clones needed to attack? Would it even make a difference if they were able to implement a tiered system, or would it just end up changing things and getting the same, or a worse, outcome? The number of clones you attack with is the number of clones you get for that battle. For example, if you send 100 clones, you only get 100 deaths before you lose. If they were able to add a tier system I definitely think pc would improve. It would be more accessible to smaller or lower-skilled corps while still providing an incentive to attack and hold districts.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
4634
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Posted - 2014.10.07 02:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
How does the passive ISK work? Would that be a constant as well, or could they vary that, like creating a significant drop off for any district that was held for a long period of time without having been defended?
This way if they wanted to make more isk, they would be inclined to attack and less inclined towards peace treaties.
You can always tell a Millford Minja
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Bright Cloud
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
384
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Posted - 2014.10.07 02:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
No cause i dont want other people to be filthy rich as im. Now go back to your militia suits and try to farm pubs you peasants. on another note a (in)offical announcement from CCP:
BUY AUR SUCKERS!
Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
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Kierkegaard Soren
THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415
531
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Posted - 2014.10.07 03:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
PC needs to give a substantial reward to those that successfully participate within it, without creating a sort of feed-back loop of infinite ISK generation that can then be ploughed back into pub stomps and the like. It also needs to be a mechanic that can be implemented with the dev resources at hand, which rules out rewards that do not currently exist within the game. It's very tricky, but what about this:
Holding districts increases your weekly skill point cap limit.
The general idea is that holding onto a district for a week will increase the sp cap for all the members of the occupying corp for the next week. Losing it before the seven days are up gets you no bonus, losing it after seven days causes you to lose the bonus for the week after that. The bonus is based off of the number of districts you hold, but is done in a bracket-like fashion which give diminishing cap bonus returns for higher levels of district acquisition. So for example, holding 1-5 districts gives you, say, +10k sp cap, holding 6-15 rewards you with +18k, 16-25 for 24k and so on. (The numbers are just an example to demonstrate the principle).
Smaller corps can hold a few patches of turf and all members benefit with a meaningful reward, and defending that reward will take comparatively less effort to an alliance that holds caste swathes of territory, and whilst the rewards for their members will be pretty substantial they won't have an overpowering edge that limitless isk can provide in other arenas.
Just a thought. Feedback appreciated.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
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hfderrtgvcd
683
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Posted - 2014.10.07 03:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:How does the passive ISK work? Would that be a constant as well, or could they vary that, like creating a significant drop off for any district that was held for a long period of time without having been defended?
This way if they wanted to make more isk, they would be inclined to attack and less inclined towards peace treaties. Districts generate clones which you could either sell, use to attack other districts, or move to another district. I suppose they could cause a dropoff in clone generation but that could easily be worked around with self-attacks from an alt corp.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege Top Men.
4001
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Posted - 2014.10.07 04:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
I see ideas in here about tiering off districts. I think there's a lot of value in such a concept. But how do you make holding the smaller/less valuable districts unappealing to the blue donut?
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game RUST415
1325
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Posted - 2014.10.07 11:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:I see ideas in here about tiering off districts. I think there's a lot of value in such a concept. But how do you make holding the smaller/less valuable districts unappealing to the blue donut?
There is very few ways to stop the larger corps feeding off the easier competition, and to be honest The only way to truly do it would be put security levels on Corps in Dust and the Districts provided And literally block the big teams from farming the smaller sides.. I do not like this idea myself..
But there is not many ways to stop mercs attacking teams for easy wins
As for Passive ISK, how rich did the mercs in PC get via this? and you cut it off .... understandable But cutting it off without removing some of the ISK that fell from the sky leaves only those who got In first and started farming early can afford battle costs no issue, why would newer mercs want to compete with that?
A passive ISK payment COULD be restored and have it factor that 1 District pays X ammount Adding a second district brings in 75% of X. A third District brings 50% of X. And no.4 brings 25% of X District no.5 pays no passive ISK, And district no.6 comes at a cost, so a passive payout rather than income Each District from 6 + costs an increasing ammount for your corp to control.
This gives corps incentive to hold land, but removes the need for land hoarding As for the comments on GTA making 296,000,000 this again is CCP's fault, Alliance size in Dust Whatever about Eve side they can use the mass numbers we use 16 mercs at one time. Having Alliances pool together the top section of competition kills activity for them and for the rest. That said, DUST mercs should have a cap on how many can be in one Alliance, this 'may' promote more fighting on the ground, and a better experience for your gamers
*tosses handful of 0.02 ISK*
Innapropriate Irrelevence...
Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
974
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Posted - 2014.10.07 12:31:00 -
[30] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:There is basically no incentive to own more than a handful of districts anymore. District locking is now impossible so I fail to see why it should not be returned. It would breathe some life back into pc and encourage more corporations to take part. no passive isk! you PC runners get far too much isk as it is and is feeding the protostomping mindset of corps in pub matches.
[[LogiBro in Training]]
Level 2 Forum Pariah
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