It is my understanding it was removed to loosen the foothold of elite corporations. People praised it. Now, people want it back.

What in the world?

We need to start thinking about B, C, and D...instead of just thinking about A.

Passive isk was exploited to the benefit of a few players and to the detriment of the majority of players.

Anyone who says otherwise is trolling or blind.

PC was locked down as content for an elite few and all others denied entry so that corps could harvest hundreds of millions per week.

Alt corps engaging to lock out battles each week with clone packs that did not expend was a thing. Allies would similarly lock frienly districts and not deploy. Only one battle per day is allowed per district.

Many corps have deliberately set the lock timers to exclude 90% of players due to Most people having jobs and needing sleep, creating an artificial buffer that discouraged anyone from wasting the effort it would require to get 16 bodies for a midnight raid.

All of these factors ended with endless isk for a few and no entry for others.

Claiming it wasn't exploited outright is like claiming that the earth is flat or that devouring arsenic is safe.

Passive ISK needed to not be a thing and should have been killed with fire in its infancy.

It contributed nothing useful to the game as a whole.

It did, however, insure that a select few players would never have to concern themselves with the same difficulties suffered by the rest of the playerbase.

Keep saying you don't like the claim that it was exploited.

Im a goon. We excel at abusing bad mechanics but this one took the cake so thoroughly that even we were disgusted by the sheer stupidity of it.

1) SO, returning isk to PC wonGÇÖt incentive-ize people to fight? The amount of PC activity is basically DEAD compared to how it was with passive isk.

2) Ok, so if people run prototype gear in pubs, thatGÇÖs protostomping, and if people run proto in PC, thatGÇÖs being fiscally irresponsibleGǪ so where do people run their high-end gear, work hard, and turn a profit? Why even have high end gear then?

I get your other points about how the mechanic makes no sense, but given that updates to Dust are now delivered exclusively via limited Hotfixes, weGÇÖre not getting real markets and weGÇÖre not getting PVE. This greatly limits the amount of risk and effort that can be added into ISK generation via districts.

I say put passive ISK back, lower the generation rate, fix locking, and limit timers so corps canGÇÖt hoard land.

The alternative is to have the game continually grow stale due to lack of incentive.

And what exactly was wrong with what happened before? It was constant non-stop warfare!

Was it ALL bad? Or was it great content that needed some tweaks? Some more accessibility to the action via bigger clone packs?

Who fights for the fights? Look at the current level of activity in PC vs back when passive ISK was in the game. The lack of passive ISK has formed the most stable blue donuts in this game's history.

Greed is Good.

The removal of passive ISK threw the baby out with the bathwater, those wars were the closest Dust ever got to generating a New York Times headline.

I'm speaking from experience and close observation, and you're not.

Nobody who was close to the action, or at least watching Dustcharts or Dotlan would ever deny that there was constant warfare during the passive ISK days.

Even admitting to donuts is admitting to warfare.

Where do donuts come from? Fighting people for their land. Then they quickly fall apart due to infighting(greed), and because someone else wants to take over the map and make their own little empire.

Rinse, repeat.

It provided the best content in this game's history, and the problems with it(accessibility, number of timers, hoarding, locking) can be addressed.

I think that some clever person could think of a GREAT system to replace passive ISK, but the best proposals are unlikely due to the restraints on Dust development activity.

You've all been brainwashed that passive isk is inherently bad, and that may be true, but you are totally ignoring what is possible given the situation, and totally ignoring, via ignorance or selective reasoning, the GOOD that came with passive ISK.

And you need to stop posting. PC players care FAR MORE about this game then the rest of you do. FAR MORE.

And is there a reason you want to kill the only interesting part of this game that's loaded with players who've dedicated themselves to play Dust?

You're actually cool with isolating and hurting this very loyal fan base for the casual crowd who will quit a month later more then likely. It's absurd. Passive ISK needed to be down-graded, that was all. It's removal was ludicrous. And your willingness to hurt the PC crowd shows nothing more then tears - and your 'link' can just be said you knew you wouldn't be competitive so you were against it from the start.

You mean, they tried to play conquest in a conquest mode?! How dare those jerks!! It's almost like - they tried to play the game! That's not isolating people - that is just how conquest games work. The weak will get expelled until they can come back harder. The fault of PC is that CCP has no avenue for corps to use to gain entry into PC without loads of ISK and taxing members - but that's what CCP intended - they wanted you to recruit a lot of people and tax them to prepare for PC.

But, far as development vs PC fix goes - I'm with you on that. Fix the core first. But everything about how PC is right now is wrong compared to how it was when passive ISK was around - corps don't fight, there's no war, no meta, it's just stale and keeps getting staler.

After careful analysis, I think it's safe to ignore the opinion of anyone in this thread who uses the word "tryhard" as an insult.

"Hey, you there, you are trying! And dare I say, you are probably trying HARD! I mock you for your efforts! Which are greater than my efforts, and this is a wrongness! So I will call you out on your labors, and you should feel bad that your labors are being highlighted!"

I also like how so many people here call those wars "farming".

Like it took 0 effort or something.

The only corp in this game that could probably be accused of outright farming is Nyan San. Just about everybody else fought tooth and nail to attack and defend.

People who use tryhard as an insult should have no sway over PC. The psychology of someone who uses that type of slur isn't fit for competitive gaming.

I'd rather be a tryhard than a tryNOT.

I like both these ideas, especially the 1 timer per hour part. That alone would do so much to help PC.

Why would there be a fee for conquering a district?

Because Alaika is focused on punishing land ownership.

My model around limiting timers lets people take what they can actually defend, Alaika's model puts an upper limit on ownership no matter how skilled/large your corporation is.

It was free money?

Tell that to Fiddle, who ran logistics for most of the operation to keep track of clone moves, districts, and timers, or Sari who kept track which facilities were on what district, and countless others who ran logistics both in Dust AND Eve to keep things rolling. More importantly tell that to the dozens of mercs that logged on almost every night(and sometimes early morning for Nyan San) for unending fights, and the fleets that battled in space for the much coveted OB support.

The pursuit of that "free money" is what was DELIVERING on the promise that Dust made: meaningful fights, and meaningful interactions between Dust and Eve. But that doesn't matter because DAE HATE PASSIVE ISK, AM I RIGHT GUYS?

You are only making these statements because you are ignorant, you do not know what went down, or how it went down. And this ignorance gives you the ability to confidently stab in the dark.

Also, what part of the game was ruined?

Pubs? Blame that on matchmaking. I don't want to stomp noobs, but if I queued up that's what happened. The abysmal Battle Academy period shows you just how much CCP cares about that problem. But pubs are honestly an inconsequential part of the game in the literal sense of the word. There's no point. A game of Destiny has about as much effect on the New Eden universe as a Pub match.

Did we ruin Faction? We ran Amarr so hard that almost everyone in TP and NF got 10/10 in a week. And all of our enemies starting queuing Minmatar, and Eve pilots ran around chasing LP via OB support. Now? Try running a Faction late night and get ready to queue up for 10 minutes only to get Scottied.

Did we ruin PC? Tell that the countless corps that fought with and against us, what would they have been doing if we weren't constantly stirring **** up. The removal of Passive ISK did more to ruin PC than anything else. And that's an undeniable fact.

So you admit that removing passive ISK removed the incentive to take, hold, or defend districts. Then you sling a bunch of almost insults because tryhards try hard. Then you imply that without Passive ISK, PC would activity would have been fine, when we have a baseline for that (corp battles), and there were undeniably more fights during the Passive ISK era than that Corp Battle era.

FW can't possibly have more of an effect on New Eden than player driven activities. It's a sandbox. The New York Times is unlikely to run a story on how hard Amarr fought Minmatar this week, but the media regularly covers the activity of the "e-peen swinging tryhards." .

My changes would allow more alliances and corps to join in the sandbox, but you're not interested in that.

We could replace you with a bot that says "LOL TRYHARDS" and "LOL FARMERS" and nobody would miss you in regards to this topic.

You're not adding anything to the conversation.