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[Echo] HMG Heat Buildup (Nerf my weapon please.)

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Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4367	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:04:00 - [1] - Quote First, I have been using HMG since Patch 1.3 and I was very grateful when the HMG was finally fixed and became the formidable weapon it was meant to be, but I have been less happy with how easy it is to operate. I donGÇÖt like my weapon of choice being GÇ£Easy ModeGÇ¥. It makes it hard to get any respect as a Sentinel. Second, I have greatly enjoyed using the Burst HMG since Charlie and having to deal with heat management. It made the Burst HMG less GÇ£EasyGÇ¥ without preventing it from being effective in skilled hands. In Delta they have made the heat buildup of the Burst HMG even more extreme, yet it is still an effective weapon in the right hands. The point is, I found dealing with heat management to be a fun challenge. Third, I have tried the Militia HMG and only managed to overheat it once so far, in an extreme situation, but it did have enough heat buildup that I had to pay attention to it, which I found to be more fun than using the Standard HMG which despite the Charlie heat nerf, still requires very little attention to heat management. The Standard HMG is supposed to be more of a continuous fire suppression weapon, so it canGÇÖt have heat buildup anywhere close to the Burst, but there is still room to introduce more heat management than it has now without impinging very much on its effectiveness in the hands of a skilled operator. Current Heat Buildup per Second: Militia HMG: 23.5 Standard HMG: 16 Advanced HMG: 15.2 Prototype HMG: 14.4 Officer HMG: 12.8 My Proposed Heath Buildup per Second for Echo: Militia HMG: 26 Standard HMG: 20 Advanced HMG: 18 Prototype HMG: 16 Officer HMG: 14 Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8052	Posted - 2014.09.26 14:06:00 - [2] - Quote I have always been of the opinion that current HMG damage and application is damn near perfect, and heat management and aiming should be what defines a skilled heavy. So thank you for the detailed input and feedback. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Lonewolf Heavy Chaotic Company 129	Posted - 2014.09.26 14:27:00 - [3] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: First, I have been using HMG since Patch 1.3 and I was very grateful when the HMG was finally fixed and became the formidable weapon it was meant to be, but I have been less happy with how easy it is to operate. I donGÇÖt like my weapon of choice being GÇ£Easy ModeGÇ¥. It makes it hard to get any respect as a Sentinel. Second, I have greatly enjoyed using the Burst HMG since Charlie and having to deal with heat management. It made the Burst HMG less GÇ£EasyGÇ¥ without preventing it from being effective in skilled hands. In Delta they have made the heat buildup of the Burst HMG even more extreme, yet it is still an effective weapon in the right hands. The point is, I found dealing with heat management to be a fun challenge. Third, I have tried the Militia HMG and only managed to overheat it once so far, in an extreme situation, but it did have enough heat buildup that I had to pay attention to it, which I found to be more fun than using the Standard HMG which despite the Charlie heat nerf, still requires very little attention to heat management. The Standard HMG is supposed to be more of a continuous fire suppression weapon, so it canGÇÖt have heat buildup anywhere close to the Burst, but there is still room to introduce more heat management than it has now without impinging very much on its effectiveness in the hands of a skilled operator. Current Heat Buildup per Second: Militia HMG: 23.5 Standard HMG: 16 Advanced HMG: 15.2 Prototype HMG: 14.4 Officer HMG: 12.8 My Proposed Heath Buildup per Second for Echo: Militia HMG: 26 Standard HMG: 20 Advanced HMG: 18 Prototype HMG: 16 Officer HMG: 14 I honestly love this idea, and would love to see it implemented into echo! The only downside I can see coming from this is if CCP does not find a way to give heavies a harder time fitting Light weapons, because obviously many sentinels will hate this idea because it'll reduce how much damage they can do consistently without having to stop and cause their dispersion to spread out again. So obviously they will just throw light weapons on their sentinels and once again the Hybrid Heavy trend will come back. So CCP if you do this please find a way of making it significantly harder for sentinels to fit Light weapons! I honestly get annoyed by Hybrid Sentinels because if they want to run light weapons they should have just been commandos. (I am so glad I have Commandos and Sentinels) Blueberries are delicious and an essential part of my diet ;) Commando/Heavy Willing to PC for anyone for a low price
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3203	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:04:00 - [4] - Quote Yeah not a fan. Mostly because if you get cornered by multiple opponents your only option as a sentinel is to fight or die. Shortening the engagement window further gives sentinels less time to deal with a threat and gives scouts who use hit detection avoidance (strafe jerk dance) an even greater advantage over sentinels in CQC.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4369	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:09:00 - [5] - Quote I donGÇÖt think that HMG Sentinels need any more fitting nerfs. But I would be fine with another Light Weapon Sentinel fitting nerf (PC/CPU nerf with equal Heavy Weapon fitting bonus) provided the Assault HMG was given a bit more rang, or a Tactical HMG was added (Long range, no dispersion, like HMG used to be). Currently my only objection to a Light Weapon Sentinel fitting nerf is Manus Peak Domination. HMGGÇÖs are useless in that map and I am crap with a Forge Gun. If we donGÇÖt have the option to switch to a Rail Rifle, then we need a long range HMG. Before the HMG was fixed, it had a lot more range, but was hard to use in CQC. I would like to see that setup used in a new Tactical variant of the HMG. Failing that, I would like to see the Assault HMG get a bit more range. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 707	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:09:00 - [6] - Quote Lonewolf Heavy wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: First, I have been using HMG since Patch 1.3 and I was very grateful when the HMG was finally fixed and became the formidable weapon it was meant to be, but I have been less happy with how easy it is to operate. I donGÇÖt like my weapon of choice being GÇ£Easy ModeGÇ¥. It makes it hard to get any respect as a Sentinel. Second, I have greatly enjoyed using the Burst HMG since Charlie and having to deal with heat management. It made the Burst HMG less GÇ£EasyGÇ¥ without preventing it from being effective in skilled hands. In Delta they have made the heat buildup of the Burst HMG even more extreme, yet it is still an effective weapon in the right hands. The point is, I found dealing with heat management to be a fun challenge. Third, I have tried the Militia HMG and only managed to overheat it once so far, in an extreme situation, but it did have enough heat buildup that I had to pay attention to it, which I found to be more fun than using the Standard HMG which despite the Charlie heat nerf, still requires very little attention to heat management. The Standard HMG is supposed to be more of a continuous fire suppression weapon, so it canGÇÖt have heat buildup anywhere close to the Burst, but there is still room to introduce more heat management than it has now without impinging very much on its effectiveness in the hands of a skilled operator. Current Heat Buildup per Second: Militia HMG: 23.5 Standard HMG: 16 Advanced HMG: 15.2 Prototype HMG: 14.4 Officer HMG: 12.8 My Proposed Heath Buildup per Second for Echo: Militia HMG: 26 Standard HMG: 20 Advanced HMG: 18 Prototype HMG: 16 Officer HMG: 14 I honestly love this idea, and would love to see it implemented into echo! The only downside I can see coming from this is if CCP does not find a way to give heavies a harder time fitting Light weapons, because obviously many sentinels will hate this idea because it'll reduce how much damage they can do consistently without having to stop and cause their dispersion to spread out again. So obviously they will just throw light weapons on their sentinels and once again the Hybrid Heavy trend will come back. So CCP if you do this please find a way of making it significantly harder for sentinels to fit Light weapons! I honestly get annoyed by Hybrid Sentinels because if they want to run light weapons they should have just been commandos. (I am so glad I have Commandos and Sentinels) I love when I see heavy using a light weapon QQ. If they want to be worthless then I say go ahead.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3203	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:15:00 - [7] - Quote Every heavy I have seen running a light weapon over the last couple weeks has been a commando. The only exception to this is the sniper sent, and they just ate a huge nerf.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4369	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:20:00 - [8] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Every heavy I have seen running a light weapon over the last couple weeks has been a commando. The only exception to this is the sniper sent, and they just ate a huge nerf. You make a good point. It seems that the original Light Weapon Sentinel nerf may have done its job, particularly when combined with buffs to the Assault suit. LetGÇÖs park this topic until people start complaining about Light Weapon Sentinels again. It is getting away from the original topic anyway. Also, making all the Commandos red probably helped with cases of mistaken identity, which may have contributed to the QQ on Light Weapon Heavies. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3204	Posted - 2014.09.26 15:36:00 - [9] - Quote I guarantee the commando is the primary reason for the nerdrage on the topic. If you see a light weapon on a heavy 9 out of 10 times its a rail rifle on a militia heavy. Newbs who do not know any better.
Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 144	Posted - 2014.09.26 16:06:00 - [10] - Quote After putting about 2 million points into Sentinel suits and Heavy weapons I can honestly say they are to powerful and no you shouldn't be able to kill a heavy easily but its not even a fair fight to put a heavy against two of anything except a sniper or another heavy.

Dust User KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 708	Posted - 2014.09.26 17:04:00 - [11] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: After putting about 2 million points into Sentinel suits and Heavy weapons I can honestly say they are to powerful and no you shouldn't be able to kill a heavy easily but its not even a fair fight to put a heavy against two of anything except a sniper or another heavy. Guess you've never ran into a cloaked, shotgunning, RE throwing scout.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2917	Posted - 2014.09.26 17:09:00 - [12] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: After putting about 2 million points into Sentinel suits and Heavy weapons I can honestly say they are to powerful and no you shouldn't be able to kill a heavy easily but its not even a fair fight to put a heavy against two of anything except a sniper or another heavy. At what range? Scout (or even Winmatar Logi) with a shotgun in CQC, I have a roughly 40% rate of winning engagements in my STD/MLT fits vs Proto armor heavies. Nova Knives Nuff Said AR, CR, ScR, LR, RR, at range if you catch a Sentinel away from cover that Sentinel is dead well over half the time and poses only minimal threat to the other merc. This is true even before considering things like the racial Assault or Commando bonuses. However if we get a fix to the movement/hit detection issues raised earlier in this thread I could stand behind the OP. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Dj grammer New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 369	Posted - 2014.09.26 17:43:00 - [13] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: First, I have been using HMG since Patch 1.3 and I was very grateful when the HMG was finally fixed and became the formidable weapon it was meant to be, but I have been less happy with how easy it is to operate. I donGÇÖt like my weapon of choice being GÇ£Easy ModeGÇ¥. It makes it hard to get any respect as a Sentinel. Second, I have greatly enjoyed using the Burst HMG since Charlie and having to deal with heat management. It made the Burst HMG less GÇ£EasyGÇ¥ without preventing it from being effective in skilled hands. In Delta they have made the heat buildup of the Burst HMG even more extreme, yet it is still an effective weapon in the right hands. The point is, I found dealing with heat management to be a fun challenge. Third, I have tried the Militia HMG and only managed to overheat it once so far, in an extreme situation, but it did have enough heat buildup that I had to pay attention to it, which I found to be more fun than using the Standard HMG which despite the Charlie heat nerf, still requires very little attention to heat management. The Standard HMG is supposed to be more of a continuous fire suppression weapon, so it canGÇÖt have heat buildup anywhere close to the Burst, but there is still room to introduce more heat management than it has now without impinging very much on its effectiveness in the hands of a skilled operator. Current Heat Buildup per Second: Militia HMG: 23.5 Standard HMG: 16 Advanced HMG: 15.2 Prototype HMG: 14.4 Officer HMG: 12.8 My Proposed Heat Buildup per Second for Echo: Militia HMG: 26 Standard HMG: 20 Advanced HMG: 18 Prototype HMG: 16 Officer HMG: 14 signed Darkness is a Beginning, you see, not an end.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 178	Posted - 2014.09.26 18:42:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I have always been of the opinion that current HMG damage and application is damn near perfect, and heat management and aiming should be what defines a skilled heavy. So thank you for the detailed input and feedback. I say you nerf res 1st. Basic res kill my proto sentinel no problem so what would be the point of skilling them up. Just change the efficency on infantry so no changes to vehicle/re gameplay. I think the damage profiles should be something like this: -+basic res- 600 damage -+advanced- 900 damage -+proto-1200
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 178	Posted - 2014.09.26 18:44:00 - [15] - Quote I know some sentinels can reach 1400 hp, but there has to be a counter. If hes a hp tanker hed be left with 200 hp at most still easy to finish off.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4383	Posted - 2014.09.26 19:16:00 - [16] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have always been of the opinion that current HMG damage and application is damn near perfect, and heat management and aiming should be what defines a skilled heavy. So thank you for the detailed input and feedback. I say you nerf res 1st. Basic res kill my proto sentinel no problem so what would be the point of skilling them up. Just change the efficency on infantry so no changes to vehicle/re gameplay. I think the damage profiles should be something like this: -+basic res- 600 damage -+advanced- 900 damage -+proto-1200 If I know someone is using REGÇÖs I watch for them and I go wide when coming around corners. REGÇÖs are one of the main reasons I carry Flux Grenades. My point is that there is a lot you can do to counter REGÇÖs. If you see them you can avoid them. The incentive to skilling up REGÇÖs is that you can deploy more higher level REGÇÖs at the same time, and the delay between dropping them and being able to activate them is reduced on the better REGÇÖs. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
g li2 Grupo de Asalto Chacal RISE of LEGION 200	Posted - 2014.09.26 20:38:00 - [17] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I donGÇÖt think that HMG Sentinels need any more fitting nerfs. But I would be fine with another Light Weapon Sentinel fitting nerf (PC/CPU nerf with equal Heavy Weapon fitting bonus) provided the Assault HMG was given a bit more rang, or a Tactical HMG was added (Long range, no dispersion, like HMG used to be). Currently my only objection to a Light Weapon Sentinel fitting nerf is Manus Peak Domination. HMGGÇÖs are useless in that map and I am crap with a Forge Gun. If we donGÇÖt have the option to switch to a Rail Rifle, then we need a long range HMG. Before the HMG was fixed, it had a lot more range, but was hard to use in CQC. I would like to see that setup used in a new Tactical variant of the HMG. Failing that, I would like to see the Assault HMG get a bit more range. Signed CHACALES ¡¡¡HONOR!!!
Megaman Trigger Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 128	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:47:00 - [18] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have always been of the opinion that current HMG damage and application is damn near perfect, and heat management and aiming should be what defines a skilled heavy. So thank you for the detailed input and feedback. I say you nerf res 1st. Basic res kill my proto sentinel no problem so what would be the point of skilling them up. Just change the efficency on infantry so no changes to vehicle/re gameplay. I think the damage profiles should be something like this: -+basic res- 600 damage -+advanced- 900 damage -+proto-1200 I noticed that, at least back in Bravo, the resistance vs Explosives wasn't working with REs. Haven't been hit by one since Charlie took away my 4th low slot. 1750 (current Proto RE) - 35% (vs Shields and with max Explosive resistance) should mean that a Proto RE should only do 1138. A Minmitar Commando using a Proto RE against a Sentinel should deal 1400, meaning Gal and Amarr tanked ones should survive. Purifier. First Class.
Megaman Trigger Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 128	Posted - 2014.09.29 23:53:00 - [19] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Current Heat Buildup per Second: Militia HMG: 23.5 Standard HMG: 16 Advanced HMG: 15.2 Prototype HMG: 14.4 Officer HMG: 12.8 My Proposed Heat Buildup per Second for Echo: Militia HMG: 26 Standard HMG: 20 Advanced HMG: 18 Prototype HMG: 16 Officer HMG: 14 It's small enough not to break the HMG but large enough to be noticeable. Might stop the QQ'ing about Sentinels being "easy mode" or at least curb it. Why not? I'll back it. Purifier. First Class.
Faquira Bleuetta Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 465	Posted - 2014.09.30 00:05:00 - [20] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: First, I have been using HMG since Patch 1.3 and I was very grateful when the HMG was finally fixed and became the formidable weapon it was meant to be, but I have been less happy with how easy it is to operate. I donGÇÖt like my weapon of choice being GÇ£Easy ModeGÇ¥. It makes it hard to get any respect as a Sentinel. Second, I have greatly enjoyed using the Burst HMG since Charlie and having to deal with heat management. It made the Burst HMG less GÇ£EasyGÇ¥ without preventing it from being effective in skilled hands. In Delta they have made the heat buildup of the Burst HMG even more extreme, yet it is still an effective weapon in the right hands. The point is, I found dealing with heat management to be a fun challenge. Third, I have tried the Militia HMG and only managed to overheat it once so far, in an extreme situation, but it did have enough heat buildup that I had to pay attention to it, which I found to be more fun than using the Standard HMG which despite the Charlie heat nerf, still requires very little attention to heat management. The Standard HMG is supposed to be more of a continuous fire suppression weapon, so it canGÇÖt have heat buildup anywhere close to the Burst, but there is still room to introduce more heat management than it has now without impinging very much on its effectiveness in the hands of a skilled operator. Current Heat Buildup per Second: Militia HMG: 23.5 Standard HMG: 16 Advanced HMG: 15.2 Prototype HMG: 14.4 Officer HMG: 12.8 My Proposed Heat Buildup per Second for Echo: Militia HMG: 26 Standard HMG: 20 Advanced HMG: 18 Prototype HMG: 16 Officer HMG: 14 noooo dont nerf my shotgun

CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2389	Posted - 2014.09.30 05:25:00 - [21] - Quote I cant speak to the heat aspect but thank god most heavies are slow. Its the proto ones that stack kin cats in the lows that scare me! Luckily I stack kin cats too so fat chance of catching me fatty bum bums! "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1758	Posted - 2014.11.09 22:38:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I have always been of the opinion that current HMG damage and application is damn near perfect, and heat management and aiming should be what defines a skilled heavy. So thank you for the detailed input and feedback. MLT hmg needs to share same heat as standard since it already has smaller clip [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 269	Posted - 2014.11.14 12:40:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I have always been of the opinion that current HMG damage and application is damn near perfect, and heat management and aiming should be what defines a skilled heavy. So thank you for the detailed input and feedback. So a pseudo CQC weapon wrecking at 50m is "near perfect"?? Seriously.. Wtf is wrong with you? Take out all forms of scans and you'll see how great Dust can be. Scrubs will cry, good players will love it.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 209	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:08:00 - [24] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have always been of the opinion that current HMG damage and application is damn near perfect, and heat management and aiming should be what defines a skilled heavy. So thank you for the detailed input and feedback. So a pseudo CQC weapon wrecking at 50m is "near perfect"?? Seriously.. Wtf is wrong with you? At 50m, HMGs only wreck low-HP units like sneaky scouts. Funny thing is, folks will tell you that this is fine, all the while complaining that the same squishy scout can kill a sentinel with an RE or 4 "quick" shotgun blasts.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 270	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:37:00 - [25] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have always been of the opinion that current HMG damage and application is damn near perfect, and heat management and aiming should be what defines a skilled heavy. So thank you for the detailed input and feedback. So a pseudo CQC weapon wrecking at 50m is "near perfect"?? Seriously.. Wtf is wrong with you? At 50m, HMGs only wreck low-HP units like sneaky scouts. Funny thing is, folks will tell you that this is fine, all the while complaining that the same squishy scout can kill a sentinel "too quickly" with an RE or multiple shotgun blasts. Even if they are scouts, it shouldn't deal any damage over 30m. It's optimal should be 10-15m, and max 20m. Then it should decrease A LOT dealing 10% max at 30m. It's CQC!!!! Take out all forms of scans and you'll see how great Dust can be. Scrubs will cry, good players will love it.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4993	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:49:00 - [26] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have always been of the opinion that current HMG damage and application is damn near perfect, and heat management and aiming should be what defines a skilled heavy. So thank you for the detailed input and feedback. So a pseudo CQC weapon wrecking at 50m is "near perfect"?? Seriously.. Wtf is wrong with you? At 50m, HMGs only wreck low-HP units like sneaky scouts. Funny thing is, folks will tell you that this is fine, all the while complaining that the same squishy scout can kill a sentinel "too quickly" with an RE or multiple shotgun blasts. Even if they are scouts, it shouldn't deal any damage over 30m. It's optimal should be 10-15m, and max 20m. Then it should decrease A LOT dealing 10% max at 30m. It's CQC!!!! Seriously. Get out. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 270	Posted - 2014.11.14 13:51:00 - [27] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have always been of the opinion that current HMG damage and application is damn near perfect, and heat management and aiming should be what defines a skilled heavy. So thank you for the detailed input and feedback. So a pseudo CQC weapon wrecking at 50m is "near perfect"?? Seriously.. Wtf is wrong with you? At 50m, HMGs only wreck low-HP units like sneaky scouts. Funny thing is, folks will tell you that this is fine, all the while complaining that the same squishy scout can kill a sentinel "too quickly" with an RE or multiple shotgun blasts. Even if they are scouts, it shouldn't deal any damage over 30m. It's optimal should be 10-15m, and max 20m. Then it should decrease A LOT dealing 10% max at 30m. It's CQC!!!! Seriously. Get out. You must be one of these guys who use it as a ACR. Please, get out. Take out all forms of scans and you'll see how great Dust can be. Scrubs will cry, good players will love it.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4993	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:22:00 - [28] - Quote Yes because a DPS weapon at shotgun range is better. No wait. At your proposed ranges a shotgun is better. Back to the days of the shotgun heavies. I can see it now. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 270	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:29:00 - [29] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Yes because a DPS weapon at shotgun range is better. No wait. At your proposed ranges a shotgun is better. Back to the days of the shotgun heavies. I can see it now. Shotguns dont do a **** after 10m and dont have the same mechanic at all. Heavies have too much range. Take out all forms of scans and you'll see how great Dust can be. Scrubs will cry, good players will love it.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4993	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:37:00 - [30] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Yes because a DPS weapon at shotgun range is better. No wait. At your proposed ranges a shotgun is better. Back to the days of the shotgun heavies. I can see it now. Shotguns dont do a **** after 10m and dont have the same mechanic at all. Heavies have too much range. The only reason to shorten HMG range would be to make heavies easy kill farm. We have played this game before. It was utterly pathetic. I do not exaggerate when I say swapping to the shotgun was more efficient. But I don't know what I'm talking about I'm sure. I couldn't possibly have gone through all of the various iterations of HMG nerfs. 15-20m optimal makes the HMG a waste of a weapon slot. You're better off putting kincats and damps on and playing ambush fatty with a shotgun. I thought people wanted sentinels to NOT fit light wepons over heavy. My bad. Totally understand how wrong that was. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 270	Posted - 2014.11.14 14:57:00 - [31] - Quote Heavies purpose isn't to keep a point/group from CQ attacks? Right now heavies camp on rooftop with HMG destroying everything at mid range. 20m is already big for a 800 DPS weapon, but right now it's way too much. The overheat is not and has never been the problem. Nerfing it isn't the solution. The range is. If you dont want to see heavies with light weapons, CCP must make them impossible to fit on heavy slots. Take out all forms of scans and you'll see how great Dust can be. Scrubs will cry, good players will love it.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 4993	Posted - 2014.11.14 15:13:00 - [32] - Quote I am so glad you aren't part of the decision making process for the devs. Your assertions indicate a lack of familiarity with the reality of how things work. You only seem to understand them from the "running in straight lines at the heavy" perspective or you wouldn't be saying that. But then again Sentinels in CQC... Yes let's keep them where their disadvantages don't matter. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4856	Posted - 2014.11.14 15:57:00 - [33] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: Heavies purpose isn't to keep a point/group from CQ attacks? Right now heavies camp on rooftop with HMG destroying everything at mid range. 20m is already big for a 800 DPS weapon, but right now it's way too much. The overheat is not and has never been the problem. Nerfing it isn't the solution. The range is. If you dont want to see heavies with light weapons, CCP must make them impossible to fit on heavy slots. -With the exception of the Assault HMG, HMGGÇÖs are only effective when camping from single story buildings. With two story buildings, such as the GÇ£TabletopGÇ¥ an HMG has reduced effectiveness on targets due to range until they come very close to the base of the structure. This is because dispersion starts to reduce HMG dps at far less than Optimal Range. Therefor the real optimal range of the HMG is less than the Optimal Range numbers would suggest. -A Shotgun is only effective at short range because it is used by fast, stealthy suits that can get into short range quickly, or they are used on Commando suits which have a long range option and only need the Shotgun in CQC. There is a reason why you almost never see a Sentinel using a Shotgun. A slow suit with a very short ranged weapon is not effective at all. Everyone can see it on their radar. Everyone can outrun it. People would only engage a Sentinel who is using a very short range weapon when they feel they have the advantage. This would be just as true with an HMG if the range was severely nerfed as it is true for a Sentinel with a Shotgun. -If HMG Optimal Range were reduced to less than 20m, then HMG Sentinels would only be used in very specific situations where an objective is located in a confined space. The HMG Sentinel would not be a viable specialization, and would only be worth skilling into for people who had already maxed out their primary role. You would still see some HMG Sentinels (mostly militia) in Gallente Research Facility Domination, and a few other places, but in most matches you would not see a single HMG Sentinel. -Your suggestions would kill the class. Is that your intention? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4505	Posted - 2014.11.14 16:07:00 - [34] - Quote Man, I am probably in the minority here..but I would prefer if they nerfed the standard hmg damage a bit. And I'd like to see the freedom get much tighter dispersion so it's actually getting a lot more of it's dps out at it's intended ranges. As it currently stands only a bad heavy overheats the HMG. Kin Kats on heavies are mitigating it's purpose as a slow tanky suit. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4856	Posted - 2014.11.14 16:58:00 - [35] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Man, I am probably in the minority here..but I would prefer if they nerfed the standard hmg damage a bit. While I disagree with you on this, I don't do PC, so we may be coming at it from different perspectives. I would be interested in hearing your reasoning for a damage nerf. Zatara Rought wrote: And I'd like to see the freedom get much tighter dispersion so it's actually getting a lot more of it's dps out at it's intended ranges. I agree, the Assault HMG needs less dispersion. I am not sure what it's Optimal Range is supposed to be but it's optimal range (in the field rather than on paper) needs to be about 10m longer. (I capitalize when talking of the Optimal Range stat, while using lower case optimal range when describing the ranges at which the HMG gets optimal damage output in the field.) Zatara Rought wrote: As it currently stands only a bad heavy overheats the HMG. Even good Heavies might overheat a Militia HMG in a tight situation, and of course there is the Burst, but otherwise I completely agree with you. Zatara Rought wrote: Kin Kats on heavies are mitigating it's purpose as a slow tanky suit. A Sentinel can't stack Kin Kats and Plates at the same time. By not stacking plate a Sentinel is opening themselves up to getting one shotted by high end Nova Knives and Remote explosives, and two shotted by Shotguns and Sniper Rifle Head shots. They also have a much smaller armor buffer, making working with logi much less effective. Overall, the Speed Sentinel is much easier to kill than a Brick Tanked sentinel, and can't recover as quickly as a Rep Sentinel. So, yes, stacking Kin Kats does make up for one of the Sentinel's weaknesses, but they are also giving up much of their edge where they are strongest as well. A Kin Kat Sentinel will die a lot more often than a Brick Tanked Sentinel. While stacking Kin Kats will help a Sentinel close distance faster and flank more effectively, I don't think they give enough of a speed increase to allow a Sentinel to effectively speed tank, as even when they are moving faster, they still have a much bigger hit box (just as a Brick Tanked Scout can speed tank more effectively than an Assault moving at the same speed due to the difference in the size of their hit box). Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
137H4RGIC Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 337	Posted - 2014.11.14 19:02:00 - [36] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I have always been of the opinion that current HMG damage and application is damn near perfect, and heat management and aiming should be what defines a skilled heavy. So thank you for the detailed input and feedback. So a pseudo CQC weapon wrecking at 50m is "near perfect"?? Seriously.. Wtf is wrong with you? At 50m, HMGs only wreck low-HP units like sneaky scouts. Funny thing is, folks will tell you that this is fine, all the while complaining that the same squishy scout can kill a sentinel "too quickly" with an RE or multiple shotgun blasts. Even if they are scouts, it shouldn't deal any damage over 30m. It's optimal should be 10-15m, and max 20m. Then it should decrease A LOT dealing 10% max at 30m. It's CQC!!!! A thousand times no. I remember those days. Those were when it was near impossible to be a good heavy. The horror. I want to help DUST become a better experience for everyone. Let's work together! 137H4RGIC - Running for CPM2 (SOONGäó)
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4517	Posted - 2014.11.14 19:07:00 - [37] - Quote When you say stack you mean put all low slots as plates? You only need 2 kin kats to speed tank. Armor suit come with more than 2 lows...and shield primary tanks have high slots... Where is the data that a non plate stacked heavy get's 1 shot by NK's? Re's actually I find less dangerous to me on my speed tank because i can sprint out of the blast radius easily as opposed to my plate stacked heavy. 2 shot by shotguns? Data please?? Sure yes there are deterrents to speed tanking...it's ideally used solo as blob warfare (when coupled with a dash of awareness) masks many heavy weaknesses as well (try breaching domination on the gal research lab with anything BUT heavies once a blob of them and their logi's have setup shop). Although...They would recover much faster than a plate stacked sent...dunno how that makes any sense to you. A logi is going to recover the lower armor amount obviously quicker than the extra 400-500 armor a plate stacked heavy is going to have. I would contest that a brick tank will die less than a speed tank if both are solo. I would contest that a scout is going to outperform an assault suit if both are sprinting at the same speed and used remaining slots to tank as the increased tank on the assault wills outperform the lower hitbox on the scout in the described circumstances. This understanding spawned the shotty twins and others who understood this. Assault with 850 ehp > Scout with 600 ehp sprinting at the same speed despite lower hitbox This assumes no damps or cloaks. I'm just saying that speed tanking heavies mitigates it's draw back of being a slow tanky suit. I can run around with 1200 ehp and sprint as fast as an assault suit with my higher dps weapon and **** people. Should it be so effective? I don't know. I honestly don't. As for the damage nerf...just go look at the numbers Ratatti posted about the weapons and suit being used most in PC...heavies are better at assaulting points than anything else...you need only use scouts as logis and spam heavies to win. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 271	Posted - 2014.11.14 19:11:00 - [38] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: Heavies purpose isn't to keep a point/group from CQ attacks? Right now heavies camp on rooftop with HMG destroying everything at mid range. 20m is already big for a 800 DPS weapon, but right now it's way too much. The overheat is not and has never been the problem. Nerfing it isn't the solution. The range is. If you dont want to see heavies with light weapons, CCP must make them impossible to fit on heavy slots. -With the exception of the Assault HMG, HMGGÇÖs are only effective when camping from single story buildings. With two story buildings, such as the GÇ£TabletopGÇ¥ an HMG has reduced effectiveness on targets due to range until they come very close to the base of the structure. This is because dispersion starts to reduce HMG dps at far less than Optimal Range. Therefor the real optimal range of the HMG is less than the Optimal Range numbers would suggest. I get kill mostly by normal HMG from 35-45m all the time. And it's not as if they were dealing low damage! They really hurt at such a range. -A Shotgun is only effective at short range because it is used by fast, stealthy suits that can get into short range quickly, or they are used on Commando suits which have a long range option and only need the Shotgun in CQC. There is a reason why you almost never see a Sentinel using a Shotgun. A slow suit with a very short ranged weapon is not effective at all. Everyone can see it on their radar. Everyone can outrun it. People would only engage a Sentinel who is using a very short range weapon when they feel they have the advantage. This would be just as true with an HMG if the range was severely nerfed as it is true for a Sentinel with a Shotgun. The shotgun is quite buggy with the hit detection, and requires to be very close to the target (~5m) to deal its full damages. It's a semiautomatic weapon that have a slow rate of fire. There are absolutely no links between the shotgun and the HMG which is an automatic weapon, with ultra high rate of fire, really forgiving if you miss your aim for a while, and that deals a huge ammount of DPS. Moreover, 20m is a far more decent range than a shotgun. In buildings, 20m is more than enough to reach any target and wreck it. With such a huge DPS, with low aim skill require (kinda spray and pray) used on a high HP suit, it shouldn't be able to reach targets for more than that. -If HMG Optimal Range were reduced to less than 20m, then HMG Sentinels would only be used in very specific situations where an objective is located in a confined space. The HMG Sentinel would not be a viable specialization, and would only be worth skilling into for people who had already maxed out their primary role. You would still see some HMG Sentinels (mostly militia) in Gallente Research Facility Domination, and a few other places, but in most matches you would not see a single HMG Sentinel. I agree with you on that. But people got used to a mid to close range and very powerful weapon (even at standard lvl) that is far from being balanced with such a range. -Your suggestions would kill the class. Is that your intention? I don't think so, heavies will only have to move more carefully, to learn how to get closer to their target to destroy them easily. Or play the objective and their role : guarding a point like turrets. They are not assault or commando, they are not meant for mid-range kills. They are not scouts either as they have much more HP and aren't sneaky and speedy at all. They are meant for face-to-face engagement in CQC. People must deal with that when they pick the role. Take out all forms of scans and you'll see how great Dust can be. Scrubs will cry, good players will love it.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5001	Posted - 2014.11.14 19:40:00 - [39] - Quote Huh. If this is going to be a thing just get sentinels out of CQC zatara. This BS only tells me there is going to be no good compromise. Because there is only one thing the hmg sentinel is good for. One. Keep the nerfs coming. Break the class. Let's see just how bad it gets this time. Just take heavies out of CQC and be done with it. I'm tired of the incessant whining when this is exactly where the players wanted heavies by popular demand. When yer done pushing for neuters I'm over here with the RE scout and forge gun EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4518	Posted - 2014.11.14 19:46:00 - [40] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Huh. If this is going to be a thing just get sentinels out of CQC zatara. This BS only tells me there is going to be no good compromise. Because there is only one thing the hmg sentinel is good for. One. Keep the nerfs coming. Break the class. Let's see just how bad it gets this time. Just take heavies out of CQC and ne done with it. Little nerfs my friend. Increase the time before the spool up give you optimal damage, increase the heat buildup incrementally. I really feel that until the DPS is not SO much better in CQC vs everything else...and it's only counter is shotgun/re scouts...long range with no cover, and similar levels of heavy spam...heavies will continue to be the 2nd most broken class in dust, and the number one most spammed class in PC. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5003	Posted - 2014.11.14 20:12:00 - [41] - Quote Because having a weapon that excels in cqc is bad when it's worthless in all other situations. If you want other weapons to have a 50/50 vs. It then it's going to be the most crapass gun in the game. All of the power of a light weapon. 1/3rd the range and overheats. bravo. Encore. We had this weapon in uprising 1.0. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4856	Posted - 2014.11.14 20:24:00 - [42] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Where is the data that a non plate stacked heavy get's 1 shot by NK's? That is from personal experience. The Sentinel fits I use have no more than a single plate (unless a logi begs me to run a brick fit) and I have meany times gotten 1 shotted with Nova Knives. I am not saying just any Nova Knife fit. When I say "many times" I mean over an extended period of time. It seems to only be the highest damage Proto Nova Knife fits, but Nova Knifers have definitely one shotted my sentinel. It probably involves a head shot. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4856	Posted - 2014.11.14 22:20:00 - [43] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Increase the time before the spool up give you optimal damage, increase the heat buildup incrementally. This sounds more interesting than simple cries of GÇ£nerf damage!GÇ¥ Were you thinking a slower rate of fire until the HMG spools up? I think currently spool up time only effects dispersion. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 65	Posted - 2014.11.14 23:16:00 - [44] - Quote This is sounding like the CQC bastard child between laser and rail rifles, lol.
Powerh8er The Rainbow Effect 533	Posted - 2014.11.14 23:30:00 - [45] - Quote Short range, extreme dispersion and overheats after 200 bullets. It is currently the crappiest machine gun ever designed.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 65	Posted - 2014.11.15 00:03:00 - [46] - Quote Seriously, it's a Heavy Weapon. It SHOULD do Heavy Damage. Maybe not in CQC, so take a second look at the Assault HMG. That does Heavy Damage as you close the gap to me, not necessarily at the 10-20 meter range. As I mentioned in another thread, use that as a reference for where the HMG should end up. Increase the accuracy so I can actually hit someone from far away, THEN start adding in things like spool up time. First things first, everyone seems to agree that the HMG is bad news for CQC. For purposes of full disclosure - I'm pretty new to Dust 514, only been around for about 4 months. I personally LOVE the HMG in its current form, but fully agree that the Sentinels should not be confined to CQC or 'sniper' duty.
FORGE MASTER DREAD H.A.W.K.S 0	Posted - 2014.11.15 00:40:00 - [47] - Quote Honestly the burst HMG needs a better sound effect, it has almost triple the fire rate of the other HMG's. Please make it sound meaner???
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 390	Posted - 2014.11.15 01:04:00 - [48] - Quote I think the heat nerf was a bit much to be honest. Even when all of my shots hit I still need at the VERY least 40% of my heat capacity. Usually I kill in about 65-90% of my capacity. That means if I get rushed by 2 of any suit I die-- and as a heavy I don't have the option to run. I'm cool with a heat nerf and all -- but maybe a "little" less of one. Currently using the adv HMG (MH-82) I overheat at 190 left in the clip. If I split it into two long bursts I overheat with 110 left in the clip. That's not quite enough to kill two guys so I die. I'm not sure limiting heavies by making them zerg rush killable with any two suits is the way to go...
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 872	Posted - 2014.11.15 01:09:00 - [49] - Quote hmg needs to be good enough to send ppl running for the hills shitting themselves at the same time. currently it is not that. u use half your clip to kill individual mlt suits at ranges that rnt point blank. any ways. over heat is kinda pointless for the hmg as is. considering its current range and ammo capacity and the long reload. . Clone117:MLT specialist. Translation:dont mess with me or you lose... what ever it is you had on you at the time.
Thokk Nightshade Montana Militia 690	Posted - 2014.11.15 02:03:00 - [50] - Quote [quote=Zatara Rought] Little nerfs my friend. Increase the time before the spool up give you optimal damage, increase the heat buildup incrementally. [quote] Just wanting to be clear. Are you stating you want to have BOTH of these, or is this an either/or scenario. I would be O.K. with either one on it's own if it is minor. However, stating you have to wait longer to do max damage AND while your waiting it is building up even faster, we are talking like a 1/2 second to 1 second window to do "optimum max damage" without overheating. And while building up to that, the scout has closed the distance and either blapped me twice with a shotgun or gutted me with his Nova Knives. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.

FORGE MASTER DREAD H.A.W.K.S 0	Posted - 2014.11.15 03:10:00 - [51] - Quote Game mechanics will be tested and worked out eventually. Lets talk about the sound effect that that the burst HMG makes, does it make sense that it has the same exact sound effect as the regular 2400RPM gun when the burst is supposed to have 6000RPM? Have you heard the vulcan cannon from an A10 warthog? Come on developers, lets get with it, We need to FEEL the BURST!
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars Top Men. 173	Posted - 2014.11.15 05:31:00 - [52] - Quote Heavies are less of a threat at objectives in 50m ranges or less because there DPS is nerfed a lot because they have no HMG, they were allowed to carry light weapons originally because they were also supposed to be heavy assaults that move even slower than assaults with less stamina and regen, watch the some particular DUST trailers. they advertise heavies with light weapons (although they may have been all commando advertisements?) Until new HMGs are put into the game that engage enemies at 50 to 80m I would not like sentinels to have a light weapon nerf. They are already penalized by the heavy weapon fitting reduction (incentivizes HMG and forge use a lot). I use TAC ARs with sentinels, makes me useful at objective defense at 70m ranges with slightly less DPS for when the enemy is staying out of HMG ranges (and much less Damage Per Magazine), my speed is very low so anything should be able to cautiously spot me at 100m from high spots or on the other end of that open area, etc. (I also use commandos alot but they have no grenades, I cant flush enemies out of cover without grenades) Commandos swap a grenade slot and hp and 1 high/low slot for 2 light weapons and a EQ slot. Commandos are much better and are good now compared to there original incarnation at release of uprising. I just wish they had grenades. Want to kill a adv sentinel with boundless HMG and get high WP? (that starts at 10m where you must charge at them with a std logi repping him? I use a tanked amarr assault with std shotgun in pubs. I charge from around cover and blast them away. (it doesn't work if its a proto rep tool unless you surprise them and shoot the logi in the back first) This works for me because I use proto ferroscales and 2 adv plates on std amarr assaults with std shotguns. (you need a lot of SP for those passive armor and shield HP upgrades and other core skills) Disclaimer: Only useful in city environments where objectives are. Or Bridge objectives. You must carry something like a 'stable uplink' for high WP gains. Getting scanned to often in pubs? Use a adv amarr assault suit with std shotgun and 3 proto damps and 1 proto repper and 2 adv shield mods. More hp than a scout, but similar stealth. Or use a std amarr sentinel with 3 proto damps and a HMG or lightweapon like a TAC AR and brSMG or combat rifle and ion pistol, etc. I do this sometimes. DIsclaimer: works best in city environments and you must enter the back door of the enemy. Using LAVs gets you noticed. Some amount of walking in open areas to get behind enemies required, expect 500m walks of 1 minute duration to enter cities from behind.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4530	Posted - 2014.11.15 06:16:00 - [53] - Quote Powerh8er wrote: Short range, extreme dispersion and overheats after 200 bullets. It is currently the crappiest machine gun ever designed. You obviously never tried Super Good Advice in Destiny. O_O B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4530	Posted - 2014.11.15 06:22:00 - [54] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: Just wanting to be clear. Are you stating you want to have BOTH of these, or is this an either/or scenario. I would be O.K. with either one on it's own if it is minor. However, stating you have to wait longer to do max damage AND while your waiting it is building up even faster, we are talking like a 1/2 second to 1 second window to do "optimum max damage" without overheating. And while building up to that, the scout has closed the distance and either blapped me twice with a shotgun or gutted me with his Nova Knives. I was suggesting either or. While I personally would be more happy if the HMG damage was brought down closer the the highest DPS CQC rifle variant...it's dispersion tightened (so it does more dps at longer ranges), and it's overheat mechanic toned way down if not removed... I know people are going to disagree with me. And I don't represent myself. I can try to advocate (best done on comms where I can actually elaborate without getting carpel tunnel) why i think a certain way and strive to understand why people feel differently (because I like to practice what I preach about ACTUALLY being open to ideas other than one's own ). B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5025	Posted - 2014.11.15 08:08:00 - [55] - Quote Reducing the DPS of the HMG to rifle values is so goddamn stupid I cannot even begin. DPS is the only advantage the gun has. Range? My dck is longer than optimal. Magazine size? Heavies don't die with empty drums. Reducing TTK measns wasting more ammo to kill the same target. So instead of having to reload every three targets you have to reload every 1.5 kills like a rifle. Net gain: zero. Hit points? Riiiight. Bigger hitbox can't strafe dodge, and the capper that every beta vet uses to murder your proto sentinels: Heavy hitbox for the head is significantly larger than any other suit. So tell me, oh magic one. If my HMG goes to rifle DPS precisely what is the advantage of the gun? You can do better CQC with a chokepoint ambush with a shotgun and RR/CR/AR/SCR would be better options for range reasons alone. The HMG was a piece of sht from uprising on. It's still sh*t because putting sentinels in CQC is stupid. I love Rattati but he needs to quit holding onto the idiotic meta established by his predecessors. Because when we get to the point you want, sentinels will be better off running rifles. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4532	Posted - 2014.11.15 08:13:00 - [56] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: sincere questions among a scathing tirade I really have no interest in attempting to read that. Feel free to contact me if you wish to speak in a professional manner on skype or email. I'm not your doormat. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5025	Posted - 2014.11.15 08:36:00 - [57] - Quote Neither are you representing an interest in actually fixing the problem. Instead you are treating the problems and my input as inconsequential, irrelevant and ignorant along the slant of me trying to protect an easy mode. I despise the heavy meta and want it to burn. But your assertions do not solve the problem. They just change the problem. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4860	Posted - 2014.11.17 13:13:00 - [58] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: (1) My Adv Cal Sent gets 1 shot from NKs. However I have only noticed that with Min scouts. I think other scouts take two as I have taken two to die. (2) I contest that based on 1 factor. Sprint speed can be buffed -- but movement speed cannot. So those 600 hp scouts have higher strafe left and right speed. That makes a huge difference in an open field 1v1 gunfight. I instead find that the hit detection/ network code favors the scout. (3) That's pretty true. Don't forget that heavies take more damage than other suits due to their slow side to side step speed and larger hit box. However, yes you can use kincats to nullify one of the disadvantages of being a heavy as far as moving from location to location goes. (4) I also agree/find this to be true (and telling of the situation!) Some good points. Also regarding your earlier comments about heat buildup that I did not quote, If you can find a way to work in a short pause in firing at some point during the fight, it can extend your time before overhead noticeably. Such as when moving from one target to the next, if you stop firing during that instant between targets. Or if you over correct and swing past your target for a moment, try to stop firing until you get your HMG back on target. These are things you sort of have to train yourself to do, but they make a give difference in heat management. I use the Militia HMG all the time and find it very effective unless I am facing more than 3 people at a time. You could try using the Militia HMG to really learn heat management, then the Standard HMG will seem easy by comparison. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
VikingKong iBUN T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 212	Posted - 2014.11.17 18:18:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I have always been of the opinion that current HMG damage and application is damn near perfect, and heat management and aiming should be what defines a skilled heavy. So thank you for the detailed input and feedback. Holy **** this is the worst thing i've seen in a while. Looks like we are gona be keeping the super op "Don't even bother fighting cos he'll kill you in half a second with his minigun and it's gona take you 10 seconds to kill him with your rifle." sort of heavies.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4621	Posted - 2014.11.17 19:40:00 - [60] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Neither are you representing an interest in actually fixing the problem. Instead you are treating the problems and my input as inconsequential, irrelevant and ignorant along the slant of me trying to protect an easy mode. I despise the heavy meta and want it to burn. But your assertions do not solve the problem. They just change the problem. Glad we were able to talk it out on skype and that we now have THIS. o/ Breakin B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4865	Posted - 2014.11.17 19:47:00 - [61] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Neither are you representing an interest in actually fixing the problem. Instead you are treating the problems and my input as inconsequential, irrelevant and ignorant along the slant of me trying to protect an easy mode. I despise the heavy meta and want it to burn. But your assertions do not solve the problem. They just change the problem. Glad we were able to talk it out on skype and that we now have THIS. o/ Breakin You two talked? Is that why Breakin is now calling for a slight HMG damage nerf? Are you contagious or something? Actaully Breakin makes a good argument in that thread. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
XxGhazbaranxX Endless Hatred 1876	Posted - 2014.11.17 20:02:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I have always been of the opinion that current HMG damage and application is damn near perfect, and heat management and aiming should be what defines a skilled heavy. So thank you for the detailed input and feedback. Don't touch the aiming mechanism, we had to go through he'll to get it as good as it is now. I even had to make a video explaining what Wharton wrong with it. Homogenize the heat through at tiers down to militia levels and leave it at that. Militia overheat is a challenge but little enough to make it viable. Again, don't mess with the aiming or it will become craps. Overheat changes first and if that still doesn't do the trick then maybe range reduction but not aiming changes. Plasma Cannon Advocate [SUPPORT BREACH SHTGUN CHANGES][2]
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5088	Posted - 2014.11.17 20:44:00 - [63] - Quote THE POWER OF MATH COMPELS YOU! THE POWER OF MATH COMPELS YOU!!! Normalize heat so they all heat up at the same rate. THE POWER OF MATH COMPELS YOU!!! EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2092	Posted - 2014.11.18 05:52:00 - [64] - Quote Sounds... Sound. Because you wanted to be something you're not. A hero. Do you feel like one now?
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 404	Posted - 2014.11.18 06:57:00 - [65] - Quote It is odd to me that you (Breakin) are so gungho about changing heavies from being CQC guys. Why do you hate the idea so much?


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