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CCP Rattati wrote:

Cruor Abominare wrote:

Ahh geeze Rattatti, these things are death traps.

I'm assuming these are meant for new players?

You've got a bunch of 400 hp death traps. I know you're working on matchmaking but still any one with any sp is just going to collect the 50wp all day long.

You know what helps new people the most? Living longer. They're going to get chewed up in this game so the first goal to keep them hooked is to get them those first few kills under their belt. You do that by keeping them alive. We don't have a real tutorial to explain some of the finer mechanics of regen vs health armor vs shields etc. Stack them HP, keep them alive long enough to at least shoot back.

If CCP ever gives you resources again for a real patch then fight for a real tutorial to explain some mechanics in how they can change up their suit, but for the love of god don't just give them OHK suits to get picked off all day long.

Regen isn't going to help them if they just fall over after taking the first shot, hell regen mods in the game are pretty lack luster and require a lot of experience in understanding how and when to jump in and out of cover, things that are lost on newbies even if they've played FPS games for years. Every FPS game seems to cause complete amnesia on basic concepts for some reason.

I guess they're better than the current starter fits but last time i used one I laughed because they had unused slots anyways.

I hear you, but they will be fighting each other in the Academy, so maybe it won't be as bad as you expect.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 10 post(s)
Vell0cet Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 2215	Posted - 2014.08.29 07:41:00 - [61] - Quote This was the list of fits I'd like to see for new players using an Amarr as an example: 1 FRONTLINE [STARTER FIT] GêP 2 ANTI-ARMOR [STARTER FIT] GêP 3 REVIVER [STARTER FIT] GêP 4 SNIPER [STARTER FIT] GêP 5 Heavy: Militia Point Defense 10 (perhaps called "Defender" or "Objective Defense" ) 6 Heavy: Militia Anti-Armor 10 7 Light: Militia Assassin 10 8 Support: Militia Resupplier 10 9 Support: Militia Spawn Deployer 10 10 Support: Militia Scaner 10 11 Support: Militia Armor Repairer 10 (perhaps called "Triage") 12 Caldari Militia Frontline 10 13 Gallente Militia Frontline 10 14 Minmatar Militia Frontline 10 The first 4 are infinite starter fits (tweaked per the discussion). The rest are 0 SP MIL suits with around 10 copies of each. The last 3 fits are the racial frontline equivalents of the other races, so the new player is exposed to all racial flavors early on, in case they want to go in a different direction, and letting them know they're not "locked in" to their race's gear. I'd also like to see each new player get 1 MIL dropship and 1 MIL tank. The support suits feature each race's equipment and alternative weapon (e.g. Rep tool and mass driver). The frontline fits should be competitive and fun--featuring the racial suit, tanking style, AR variant, and sidearm, the grenade and equipment on these should be more about being effective. The support roles are less about being super-effective, and more about exposing the player to the diversity of options available to them, letting them experience a broad crossection of the diverse gameplay options available in DUST, exposing them to a broad variety of roles, and hopefully helping them find a niche they enjoy. Best PvE idea ever!
Cruor Abominare Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 142	Posted - 2014.08.29 07:44:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Cruor Abominare wrote: Ahh geeze Rattatti, these things are death traps. I'm assuming these are meant for new players? You've got a bunch of 400 hp death traps. I know you're working on matchmaking but still any one with any sp is just going to collect the 50wp all day long. You know what helps new people the most? Living longer. They're going to get chewed up in this game so the first goal to keep them hooked is to get them those first few kills under their belt. You do that by keeping them alive. We don't have a real tutorial to explain some of the finer mechanics of regen vs health armor vs shields etc. Stack them HP, keep them alive long enough to at least shoot back. If CCP ever gives you resources again for a real patch then fight for a real tutorial to explain some mechanics in how they can change up their suit, but for the love of god don't just give them OHK suits to get picked off all day long. Regen isn't going to help them if they just fall over after taking the first shot, hell regen mods in the game are pretty lack luster and require a lot of experience in understanding how and when to jump in and out of cover, things that are lost on newbies even if they've played FPS games for years. Every FPS game seems to cause complete amnesia on basic concepts for some reason. I guess they're better than the current starter fits but last time i used one I laughed because they had unused slots anyways. I hear you, but they will be fighting each other in the Academy, so maybe it won't be as bad as you expect. For how long? I'm sure you have the numbers on how long until the average new player ditches starter fits and at what sp they start to make their own fits or adjust starter fits. As it is now, I see a frightening number of people making my sp grind easier in starter suits. Unless some one is q-dyncing half the team is usually running around in Frontline/medic/sniper/anti armor fits.
Hobo on Fire Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 322	Posted - 2014.08.29 08:00:00 - [63] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DUST 514 has mercenaries that pick and choose their combat loadout, not army issued. In many cases though, they would be veterans and therefore retain some of their respective army's philosophies and doctrines Aside from contradicting the "racial philosphy" mentioned in the OP, this logic would apply better to primary/sidearm loadouts than anything to do with grenades. Pair an Assault Rifle with an SMG or bolt pistol to use as a finisher, or wipe your targets shields with a scram pistol before tearing into them with a combat rifle... it allows for more engagements between resupply than the two grenades you can carry. If the idea is to use these as a baseline for better racial starter fits, spread the different grenade types between the different starter roles... flux for the frontline fits, AV grenades on the anti-vehicle fit, etc. Also, I agree with those who say rep tool for Minmatar, and nanohives for Caldari. Connoisseur of Blueberry Pancakes
Juno Tristan Inner.Hell 68	Posted - 2014.08.29 09:23:00 - [64] - Quote Hobo on Fire wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DUST 514 has mercenaries that pick and choose their combat loadout, not army issued. In many cases though, they would be veterans and therefore retain some of their respective army's philosophies and doctrines Aside from contradicting the "racial philosphy" mentioned in the OP, this logic would apply better to primary/sidearm loadouts than anything to do with grenades. Pair an Assault Rifle with an SMG or bolt pistol to use as a finisher, or wipe your targets shields with a scram pistol before tearing into them with a combat rifle... it allows for more engagements between resupply than the two grenades you can carry. If the idea is to use these as a baseline for better racial starter fits, spread the different grenade types between the different starter roles... flux for the frontline fits, AV grenades on the anti-vehicle fit, etc. Also, I agree with those who say rep tool for Minmatar, and nanohives for Caldari. This guy gets it, Scrambler Rifle and Scrambler Pistol Combo? death trap
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 669	Posted - 2014.08.29 12:57:00 - [65] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we please get your opinion on racially themed fits based on standard quality, please don't read too much into it, we are just trying to get the themes and fittings "right". It also goes a little into earmarking modules as racial preferences, as it relates to possible efficacy changes in future Hotfixes. We also don't want every fit to be the same, so trying to get a blend of all the basic modules without sacrificing quality, these are meant to be competitive. But they are also meant to teach the "philosophy" at a glance and increase awareness of proper racial fitting, as well as mentality (speed tank, and damage profiles matching the grenades etc) Here goes: Amarr Medium Assault (1H-3L) Energizer Ferroscale Plate Ferroscale Plate Ferroscale Plate Scrambler Rifle Scrambler Pistol Locus Uplink Caldari Medium Assault (3H-1L) Extender Recharger Energizer Regulator Rail Rifle Bolt Pistol Flux Injector Gallente Medium Assault (1H-3L) Damage Mod Regular Plate Armor Repairer Armor Repairer Assault Rifle Ion Pistol Locus Active Scanner Minmatar Medium Assault (2H-2L) Extender Recharger Reactive Plate Kinetic Catelyzer Combat Rifle Flaylock Pistol Flux Nanohive the shield tanks are pathetic. extenders need buffing as does raw shield hp, Scr and flux can completly wipe them out in the blink of an eye [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 2763	Posted - 2014.08.29 13:20:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Amarr Medium Assault (1H-3L) Energizer Ferroscale Plate Ferroscale Plate Ferroscale Plate Scrambler Rifle Scrambler Pistol Locus Uplink I think the choice of putting an Energizer in the high slot is strange. Considering the Amarr scout gets a passive precision bonus, why not make that a Precision Enhancer instead? This might more clearly communicate the Amarr battle philosophy... and prevent new players from thinking Amarr use shield tanking modules. The triple ferroscale plates doesn't seem logical. Amarr should be more armor brick tanking. I suggest... Armor Plates Ferroscale Plates Reactive Plates This allows for more armor HP, minimizes the speed penalty from plates, and provides a small amount of armor rep. CCP Rattati wrote: Caldari Medium Assault (3H-1L) Extender Recharger Energizer Regulator Rail Rifle Bolt Pistol Flux Injector Nothing wrong with this fit. It is very similar to the STD Caldari assault fit I run right now. Side note: please either increase the amount of HP the Extender gives or increase the efficacy bonus of the Extender skill. CCP Rattati wrote: Gallente Medium Assault (1H-3L) Damage Mod Regular Plate Armor Repairer Armor Repairer Assault Rifle Ion Pistol Locus Active Scanner I would replace the armor plate with a reactive plate to further drive the rep tanking style Gallente use. Side note: have you considered giving reactive plates the efficacy bonus from the Armor Repair Systems skill? CCP Rattati wrote: Minmatar Medium Assault (2H-2L) Extender Recharger Reactive Plate Kinetic Catelyzer Combat Rifle Flaylock Pistol Flux Nanohive That nanohive seems out of place. I know the logic is that the CR and FL will eat up ammo, but it just feels weird to have a piece of Caldari tech on a Minmatar dropsuit. Would RE's be too much of a stretch? It could help drive home the idea of the hit-and-run gorilla tactics the Minmatar should use. He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 374	Posted - 2014.08.29 16:16:00 - [67] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Just a small note on the caldari, the only issue (and it is with all caldari) is that you will be losing a good chunk of your extender due to the penalties you get from the energizer. it's a direct contradiction. I haven't played shield suits in a while after switching to Amarr Logi but when Energizers were first introduced they only affected the base shield hp, has this been changed? I've never seen any patch notes on that. Sorry i guess i wasn't clear, I mean that with an extender you are increasing your shield hp, (complex is 66 hp) But when you fit an energizer you remove a % of shield hp as a penalty for faster regen. but a recharger increases regen (not as much as an extender) without reducing hp. given that fluxes can take out shields completely and that caldari don't have much armour, both hp and regen are important so you would need to use rechargers instead of energizers so that you get the most out of your extenders. otherwise you will for example add on 66 shield hit points with your complex extender then fit your extender which now removes 16 hp leaving your extender giving you 50 hp basically dropping it a full tier. (numbers plucked out of the air,) so it is a contradiction to add health to shields with one module whilst taking away health to shields with another, when there is a way to boost regen without losing hp.
Ryme Intrinseca Eurotrash Pubstars 1667	Posted - 2014.08.29 16:58:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can we please get your opinion on racially themed fits based on standard quality, please don't read too much into it, we are just trying to get the themes and fittings "right". It also goes a little into earmarking modules as racial preferences, as it relates to possible efficacy changes in future Hotfixes. I don't like where you're going with this. I thought the point of the game was to allow you to customize your fit, not push you into one 'racially exclusive' playstyle.
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3243	Posted - 2014.08.29 16:59:00 - [69] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: Just a small note on the caldari, the only issue (and it is with all caldari) is that you will be losing a good chunk of your extender due to the penalties you get from the energizer. it's a direct contradiction. I haven't played shield suits in a while after switching to Amarr Logi but when Energizers were first introduced they only affected the base shield hp, has this been changed? I've never seen any patch notes on that. Sorry i guess i wasn't clear, I mean that with an extender you are increasing your shield hp, (complex is 66 hp) But when you fit an energizer you remove a % of shield hp as a penalty for faster regen. but a recharger increases regen (not as much as an extender) without reducing hp. given that fluxes can take out shields completely and that caldari don't have much armour, both hp and regen are important so you would need to use rechargers instead of energizers so that you get the most out of your extenders. otherwise you will for example add on 66 shield hit points with your complex extender then fit your extender which now removes 16 hp leaving your extender giving you 50 hp basically dropping it a full tier. (numbers plucked out of the air,) so it is a contradiction to add health to shields with one module whilst taking away health to shields with another, when there is a way to boost regen without losing hp. Back when I played Cal Logi it was always worth the slight hp penalty to just use the energizer. At standard its 2% iirc, which results in almost no lose of base hp for better regen. B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich
Vell0cet Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 2216	Posted - 2014.08.29 17:03:00 - [70] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Can we please get your opinion on racially themed fits based on standard quality, please don't read too much into it, we are just trying to get the themes and fittings "right". It also goes a little into earmarking modules as racial preferences, as it relates to possible efficacy changes in future Hotfixes. I don't like where you're going with this. I thought the point of the game was to allow you to customize your fit, not push you into one 'racially exclusive' playstyle. You can still customize the fits. This is about exposing the new player to the various racial combat "philosophies." Best PvE idea ever!

Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3278	Posted - 2014.08.29 17:59:00 - [71] - Quote The Gallente and Amarr fits look good as far as I can tell, but I have to disagree with the Caldari and Minmatar fits. The Caldari, preferring thicker shields, should have 2 extenders and a recharger in the highs, and keep the regulator in the low. The Minmatar, preferring high regen, low downtime, should have an extender and energizer in the highs, and then a kincat and a regulator in the lows. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Liara Kaiba Shadow Broker Wet Squad 1	Posted - 2014.08.29 19:10:00 - [72] - Quote Here are my STD fits: Amarr Medium Assault (1H-3L) Damage Mod Ferroscale Plate Ferroscale Plate Armor Repairer Scrambler Rifle Scrambler Pistol None Uplink Caldari Medium Assault (3H-1L) Extender Extender Extender Armor Repairer Rail Rifle Bolt Pistol AV Grenades Injector Gallente Medium Assault (1H-3L) Damage Mod Ferroscale Plate Armor Repairer Armor Repairer Assault Rifle Ion Pistol Flux Active Scanner Minmatar Medium Assault (2H-2L) Extender Extender Ferroscale Plate Armor Repairer Combat Rifle Flaylock Pistol Locus Repair Tool My thoughts : Weapon, equipment and grenades are race-related. Modules aren't purely race/lore related but instead chosen to make them playable and then as much as possible racial. People might want to use that out of academyGÇª :)
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5892	Posted - 2014.08.30 13:50:00 - [73] - Quote You mean to tell me you don't expect plays to brick tank everything? pé¦pé½péªpâêpü»püäpüäpüêpéÆF¿Çpüúpüƒn+ƒ pü»püäpéÆF¿Çpüúpüªpâ¬péñpâòpâ½n+ü
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 357	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:47:00 - [74] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Cruor Abominare wrote: Ahh geeze Rattatti, these things are death traps. I'm assuming these are meant for new players? You've got a bunch of 400 hp death traps. I know you're working on matchmaking but still any one with any sp is just going to collect the 50wp all day long. You know what helps new people the most? Living longer. They're going to get chewed up in this game so the first goal to keep them hooked is to get them those first few kills under their belt. You do that by keeping them alive. We don't have a real tutorial to explain some of the finer mechanics of regen vs health armor vs shields etc. Stack them HP, keep them alive long enough to at least shoot back. If CCP ever gives you resources again for a real patch then fight for a real tutorial to explain some mechanics in how they can change up their suit, but for the love of god don't just give them OHK suits to get picked off all day long. Regen isn't going to help them if they just fall over after taking the first shot, hell regen mods in the game are pretty lack luster and require a lot of experience in understanding how and when to jump in and out of cover, things that are lost on newbies even if they've played FPS games for years. Every FPS game seems to cause complete amnesia on basic concepts for some reason. I guess they're better than the current starter fits but last time i used one I laughed because they had unused slots anyways. I hear you, but they will be fighting each other in the Academy, so maybe it won't be as bad as you expect. Hope it works
Chief-Shotty WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 158	Posted - 2014.08.30 20:06:00 - [75] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Minmatar Medium Assault (2H-2L) Extender Recharger Reactive Plate Kinetic Catelyzer Combat Rifle Flaylock Pistol Flux Nanohive As a specialized minmatar i can't really say for other suits so i leave that to their players who specialize in that role. I can say that this fitting fits the role of the minmatar pretty well except for a few things. Although the fit is sound, in order to promote a better overall effective play-style their would need to be changes for racial parity. Hit and run tactics favor - High regen (Recovering lost health quick and fast is key to survival as you never know when an enemy might appear or against a very aggressive enemy who catches you off guard being able to avoid contact even momentarily will put you back in the fight) - Speed ( Hitting the enemy in the least expected areas and disengaging when necessary and reliably) - high rof or alpha damage (reduces enemy chance to react and return fire) Minmatar Medium Assault (2H-2L) Extender - This is good Recharger (Energizer) - I would use a basic energizer, i find it more useful for hit and run despite the hit to shields but good for starter Reactive Plate - This is fine i run this exclusively on my min assaults. Some would argue ferroscale but only if you have the slot for a dedicated armor rep. Some of my advanced suits have ferroscale. Although reactives being emphasized isn't bad you get armor and reps with minimal speed penalty. With only 2 lows at basic this is common sense. Kinetic Catelyzer (Shield Regulator?)- This is something im on the fence about. Speed is useful but i find the high regen stamina to be more than enough for mobility sake. A shield regulator reduces downtime for shields which although a min needs to dual tank having shields regain that much quicker increases survivability combines with reactive makes a good dual tank min fit. Perhaps more useful on a medical oriented assault fit. Combat Rifle - Normal Flaylock Pistol (SMG) - Once again im on the fence. SMG comes in handy givin the high RoF of the CR and that fact that most starting users will hate the burst until they get used to its quirks. I will give this a pass only and if only the flaylock gets a decent buff) SMG is a definite for a front-line assault Flux (Locus Grenade)- I know what you are thinking (having armor focused weapons this would compliment dropping of an enemy's shieds and putting the work the CR or FP) but racial parity would use a locus grenade. Nanohive - This is fine TLDR; Minmatar Medium Assault (2H-2L)[/u][/b] Extender Energizer Reactive Plate Shield Regulator Combat Rifle Flaylock Pistol/SMG Locus Nanohive 8-Time New Eden Mass Driver Champion Min Commando Combat Rifle and Mass Driver = FUN and Tears OMG the Tears!! :)
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1643	Posted - 2014.08.31 20:28:00 - [76] - Quote Caldari need 3 extenders or 2 extenders and a recharger. Caldari tank with high shields and low Regan. Shoot Scout with yes.
Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 119	Posted - 2014.08.31 23:42:00 - [77] - Quote My amar standard assault 1 complex rep.1 enhanced rep 1 enhanced plate laser rifle scp enhanced light damage mod stnd flux nano no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave When my master is banned I represent her wishes and that of the Mortimor famil


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