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Gabriella Grey Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 142	Posted - 2014.09.04 17:14:00 - [91] - Quote I'm not a fan of much of the proposed changes on this. Much of this is taking what is current and flipping it on it's head, which isn't really fixing most if any of the issues. The Scrambler pistols current rate of fire in the assault variant should be where any semi-automatic weapon should not be. The scrambler pistol should be placed back to where it was. In that relation the scrambler pistol has better relation to the SMG and Magsec. I have no issues with the magsec, but I do with the SMG, and that is due to mainly it has no kick, gun rise, and dispersion etc. The magsec is more balanced with this compared to the SMG, but the Magsec sometimes feels as if it has too much of this seriously hindering its accuracy. Giving the Ion pistol too much DPS i feel is an issue even though it has a charge option, simply because of the fact of its +10 -10 percentile. I would see its ROF below the KLO scrambler pistol making it focus more on damage without overshadowing the scrambler pistol variant in the assault, burst, and breach categories. Bolt pistol I would generalize round about just below the breach scrambler pistol variant making it focus on continuous heavy damage where the bolt pistol can really shine. Lastly the flaylock doesn't need a high ROF in the slightest. This is a handheld mass driver. It should have a slowest ROF compared to the other weapons, and concentrate on damage. With that said then we can look at bringing its splash damage out a bit more, while keeping its clip size the same or shortening it further. Bringing back the flaylock pistol to where it originally was is just going to disrupt light and side arms weapons making the flaylock the answer to most scenarios again. The reason the flaylock was bad because it had too much of a splash radius, high rate of fire, and did a great deal of damage. If it is tweaked along the lines of making this weapon into an area denial weapon as its sister weapon the mass driver we should see more use from the flaylock while the other weapons and side arms are not overshadowed by it. I think many do not see the hand gun as weapons that should be able to effectively kill infantry as a stand alone weapon, but with limitations, such as range, splash damage, and small magazine sizes. *Always Grey Skies*
ConantheCimmerian Murphys-Law 57	Posted - 2014.09.04 21:42:00 - [92] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Why do people hate the Scrambler Pistol, and Pistols in general? Pistols should do more DPS than SMGs at the cost of less damage per mag. Not less DPS for the cost of less damage per mag. Ideally, pistols should do about 500 DPS, but oldy have between 700-800 DPM. So, alpha damage with a worthless ROF gay. The mainline issue is you guys want secondaries that can be primary weapons. You cant. Ccp said not. In a perfect world. Skilled marksmen can go all day long with only a sidearm. But they, without argunebt, are not as effectiv . As a rifleman. Sidearms should nit be balanced to each other but their roles. Pilot-The Black Corsair (funny comment)
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 536	Posted - 2014.09.04 23:29:00 - [93] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Magsec needs to have a better scope, and needs less kick when aimed down sight. DPS feels fine. the SMG needs more kick as there is practically none. is this possible without a client update? could we also get a variant with the suppressor attached?
JDEZ09 Dark Side Alliance 79	Posted - 2014.09.05 01:27:00 - [94] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: nelo kazuma wrote: Everyone's forgetting about the bolt pistol T.T the bolt pistol is pretty decent rn He's right. We forgot the Bolt pistol!! Take the sight of the bolt pistol and put it on the MagSec!!! lol
Zindorak 1.U.P 805	Posted - 2014.09.05 01:28:00 - [95] - Quote JDEZ09 wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: nelo kazuma wrote: Everyone's forgetting about the bolt pistol T.T the bolt pistol is pretty decent rn He's right. We forgot the Bolt pistol!! Take the sight of the bolt pistol and put it on the MagSec!!! lol break it of and glue it on Pokemon master! CCP undo ScP nerf. It hurt my feering very bad
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1789	Posted - 2014.09.05 04:28:00 - [96] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: I'm not a fan of much of the proposed changes on this. Much of this is taking what is current and flipping it on it's head, which isn't really fixing most if any of the issues. The Scrambler pistols current rate of fire in the assault variant should be where any semi-automatic weapon should not be. The scrambler pistol should be placed back to where it was. In that relation the scrambler pistol has better relation to the SMG and Magsec. I have no issues with the magsec, but I do with the SMG, and that is due to mainly it has no kick, gun rise, and dispersion etc. The magsec is more balanced with this compared to the SMG, but the Magsec sometimes feels as if it has too much of this seriously hindering its accuracy. Giving the Ion pistol too much DPS i feel is an issue even though it has a charge option, simply because of the fact of its +10 -10 percentile. I would see its ROF below the KLO scrambler pistol making it focus more on damage without overshadowing the scrambler pistol variant in the assault, burst, and breach categories. Bolt pistol I would generalize round about just below the breach scrambler pistol variant making it focus on continuous heavy damage where the bolt pistol can really shine. Lastly the flaylock doesn't need a high ROF in the slightest. This is a handheld mass driver. It should have a slowest ROF compared to the other weapons, and concentrate on damage. With that said then we can look at bringing its splash damage out a bit more, while keeping its clip size the same or shortening it further. Bringing back the flaylock pistol to where it originally was is just going to disrupt light and side arms weapons making the flaylock the answer to most scenarios again. The reason the flaylock was bad because it had too much of a splash radius, high rate of fire, and did a great deal of damage. If it is tweaked along the lines of making this weapon into an area denial weapon as its sister weapon the mass driver we should see more use from the flaylock while the other weapons and side arms are not overshadowed by it. I think many do not see the hand gun as weapons that should be able to effectively kill infantry as a stand alone weapon, but with limitations, such as range, splash damage, and small magazine sizes. Having these things will limit them to still being side arms but effective none the less, but these side arms limited ammo will make them useful for 1 on 1 scenarios, but make them struggle when faced in a less controlled fire fight scenario. Honestly I had a hard time reading your post, which is why I added paragraphs, but I think I get the general gist. I'm going to summarize your points here and take a second to respond to them. 1) You state that the ScP's rate of fire should be brought back to pre-1.8 levels, and the SMG needs an increase in either dispersion or barrel climb to make it perform on par with the Magsec. I don't really feel that the ScP's RoF is the only way to make it more competitive which is why I proposed it get a small buff to several stats. As far as your proposal to change the SMG that would be highly disagreeable to many players though I must admit I agree on one level but it is also the only side arm that is currently useful. All other side arms really just need to be brought up to its level of usefulness including the Magsec. 2) You disagree with my proposed buff to the Ion pistol stating that it should only get a damage buff and should, infact, get a RoF nerf. You also state that giving the weapon too high a DPS will be an issue. The Ion Pistol is the shortest range side arm (besides nova knives that is) and it also has horribly low accuracy. Short range weapons with low rates of fire and poor accuracy are stupidly hard to use. Lowering the Ion Pistol's RoF, even if you also give it a colossal buff to damage would make it even less useful than it currently is. I agree that too high of a DPS could be an issue here but this weapon is a bit like a shotgun. It has horribly low range and needs a high damage output to make up for this. Remember range and damage need to have an inverse relationship. 3) You say the Bolt Pistol should be made to focus on delivering continuous heavy damage. The weapon is a long range high damage per shot pistol, a sniper pistol or a hand cannon if you will. Allowing it to apply that damage continuously from long range would make it extremely overpowered. Don't get me wrong, I love this gun, but making it have continuous damage application over an extended period of time would make it OP. 4) You would like to see the flaylock become an area denial weapon but worry that having a high RoF, lots of damage, or a large blast radius could cause it to become OP again. I agree that messing with the flaylock is dangerous territory. A small change could cause it to become over powered, which is not what we are looking for here. Making the flaylock into an area denial weapon would involve giving it a large blast radius that did enough damage to be a serious threat. What you are asking for seems to be exactly what you are afraid of. The MD is already an area denial weapon, the flaylock can be a bit more unique. In my proposal its RoF, mag and damage recieve a boost but its blast radius does not. These changes allow the flaylock to do enough damage to be threatening but not able to dominate an opponent with unaimed blast radius damage. It should take some skill to use but be able to kill as well as anyother weapon. Fun > Realism
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 200	Posted - 2014.09.05 04:42:00 - [97] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Gabriella Grey wrote: I'm not a fan of much of the proposed changes on this. Much of this is taking what is current and flipping it on it's head, which isn't really fixing most if any of the issues. The Scrambler pistols current rate of fire in the assault variant should be where any semi-automatic weapon should not be. The scrambler pistol should be placed back to where it was. In that relation the scrambler pistol has better relation to the SMG and Magsec. I have no issues with the magsec, but I do with the SMG, and that is due to mainly it has no kick, gun rise, and dispersion etc. The magsec is more balanced with this compared to the SMG, but the Magsec sometimes feels as if it has too much of this seriously hindering its accuracy. Giving the Ion pistol too much DPS i feel is an issue even though it has a charge option, simply because of the fact of its +10 -10 percentile. I would see its ROF below the KLO scrambler pistol making it focus more on damage without overshadowing the scrambler pistol variant in the assault, burst, and breach categories. Bolt pistol I would generalize round about just below the breach scrambler pistol variant making it focus on continuous heavy damage where the bolt pistol can really shine. Lastly the flaylock doesn't need a high ROF in the slightest. This is a handheld mass driver. It should have a slowest ROF compared to the other weapons, and concentrate on damage. With that said then we can look at bringing its splash damage out a bit more, while keeping its clip size the same or shortening it further. Bringing back the flaylock pistol to where it originally was is just going to disrupt light and side arms weapons making the flaylock the answer to most scenarios again. The reason the flaylock was bad because it had too much of a splash radius, high rate of fire, and did a great deal of damage. If it is tweaked along the lines of making this weapon into an area denial weapon as its sister weapon the mass driver we should see more use from the flaylock while the other weapons and side arms are not overshadowed by it. I think many do not see the hand gun as weapons that should be able to effectively kill infantry as a stand alone weapon, but with limitations, such as range, splash damage, and small magazine sizes. Having these things will limit them to still being side arms but effective none the less, but these side arms limited ammo will make them useful for 1 on 1 scenarios, but make them struggle when faced in a less controlled fire fight scenario. Honestly I had a hard time reading your post, which is why I added paragraphs, but I think I get the general gist. I'm going to summarize your points here and take a second to respond to them. 1) You state that the ScP's rate of fire should be brought back to pre-1.8 levels, and the SMG needs an increase in either dispersion or barrel climb to make it perform on par with the Magsec. I don't really feel that the ScP's RoF is the only way to make it more competitive which is why I proposed it get a small buff to several stats. As far as your proposal to change the SMG that would be highly disagreeable to many players though I must admit I agree on one level but it is also the only side arm that is currently useful. All other side arms really just need to be brought up to its level of usefulness including the Magsec. Although I loved the RoF on the Scrambler Pistol, they were indeed overpowered, and certainly do not need a buff to pre 1.8 levels, maybe a SMALL increase, but they operate just fine as is. Also, it can fire it faster than others think it can. All you have to do is try and perfect the delay time inbetween shots. It's the same as the combat rifle, when trying to fire it as if it were fully automatic. The current Scrambler Pistol is just fine, especially dual Viziams or Carthums on my ADV Amarr Assaut suit that is reping at about 24hp/s. The range on them is amazing as well. They are very deadly in the right hand, and fair well in the majority of confrontations for a mere sidearm. I'd would prefer that small, minute changes be made to the Scrambler Pistol, if any were to be made. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 226	Posted - 2014.09.05 06:34:00 - [98] - Quote How about this CCP? I'm only going to really be able torovide feedback on the Ion Pistol, Scrambler Pistol, and SMG, because those are the sidearms that I know. Much in the same way the the SMG is like a mini-ACR, the ScP should be like a mini-ScR. Compared to the ACR, the SMG has these modifiers: GÇó83Gàô% RoF GÇó110-+% Damage GÇó118% Magazine Size GÇó55% Effective Range GÇó50% Absolute Range GÇóUses about the same CPU/PG Honestly, the SMG is just a smaller ACR with a shorter range. The stats of the SMG are basically just as good, other than the range. Do the same to the ScP. GÇó83Gàô% RoF 499.99 rpm GÇó110-+% Damage 71.66 Damage GÇó118% Magazine Size 53 rounds per mag (this should be dropped to 10 rounds per mag in exchange for the headshot bonus) GÇó55% Effective Range 54m Effective Range (we can just leave this where it is in exchange for no overheat mechanic, 35m GÇó50% Absolute Range 125m Absolute Range GÇóUses about the same CPU/PG 25-30 CPU and 7-8 PG I hope this is somewhat eye opening to you SMG users just how good you guys have it...
Mauren NOON The Exemplars 445	Posted - 2014.09.05 13:46:00 - [99] - Quote If the magsec doesn't get a dispersion/kick reduction I will be Pacific Ocean salty...I love the magsec. I have prof. 3 reload 3 and ammo 2 Scr and commando enthusiast. Amarrica!
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1789	Posted - 2014.09.05 14:22:00 - [100] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: If the magsec doesn't get a dispersion/kick reduction I will be Pacific Ocean salty...I love the magsec. I have prof. 3 reload 3 and ammo 2 If it does get a kick/dispersion reduction don't you think that will make the weapon OP? As it stands it has more range and DPS thank the SMG, a weapon that is already a tad too usable. Fun > Realism

Mauren NOON The Exemplars 445	Posted - 2014.09.05 14:48:00 - [101] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: If the magsec doesn't get a dispersion/kick reduction I will be Pacific Ocean salty...I love the magsec. I have prof. 3 reload 3 and ammo 2 If it does get a kick/dispersion reduction don't you think that will make the weapon OP? As it stands it has more range and DPS thank the SMG, a weapon that is already a tad too usable. Your kidding me right? More DPS than the smg my arse....smg has much more DPS than the magsec. And the magsec suffers from the rail rifles ghost shots.(shots that do no damage) and a damage buff will make it OP not a dispersion or kick reduction Scr and commando enthusiast. Amarrica!
Finn Colman Black Talon Company 37	Posted - 2014.09.05 15:58:00 - [102] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: If the magsec doesn't get a dispersion/kick reduction I will be Pacific Ocean salty...I love the magsec. I have prof. 3 reload 3 and ammo 2 If it does get a kick/dispersion reduction don't you think that will make the weapon OP? As it stands it has more range and DPS thank the SMG, a weapon that is already a tad too usable. Your kidding me right? More DPS than the smg my arse....smg has much more DPS than the magsec. And the magsec suffers from the rail rifles ghost shots.(shots that do no damage) and a damage buff will make it OP not a dispersion or kick reduction I can speak from extensive experience in saying that generally the guy with the SMG beats the guy with the MagSec. Usually I'm the guy with the magsec... Under the right conditions (making use of the range advantage) however, the MagSec wins.
Gabriella Grey Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 143	Posted - 2014.09.05 18:09:00 - [103] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: I don't really feel that the ScP's RoF is the only way to make it more competitive which is why I proposed it get a small buff to several stats. As far as your proposal to change the SMG that would be highly disagreeable to many players though I must admit I agree on one level but it is also the only side arm that is currently useful. All other side arms really just need to be brought up to its level of usefulness including the Magsec. 2) You disagree with my proposed buff to the Ion pistol stating that it should only get a damage buff and should, infact, get a RoF nerf. You also state that giving the weapon too high a DPS will be an issue. The Ion Pistol is the shortest range side arm (besides nova knives that is) and it also has horribly low accuracy. Short range weapons with low rates of fire and poor accuracy are stupidly hard to use. Lowering the Ion Pistol's RoF, even if you also give it a colossal buff to damage would make it even less useful than it currently is. I agree that too high of a DPS could be an issue here but this weapon is a bit like a shotgun. It has horribly low range and needs a high damage output to make up for this. Remember range and damage need to have an inverse relationship. 3) You say the Bolt Pistol should be made to focus on delivering continuous heavy damage. The weapon is a long range high damage per shot pistol, a sniper pistol or a hand cannon if you will. Allowing it to apply that damage continuously from long range would make it extremely overpowered. Don't get me wrong, I love this gun, but making it have continuous damage application over an extended period of time would make it OP. 4) You would like to see the flaylock become an area denial weapon but worry that having a high RoF, lots of damage, or a large blast radius could cause it to become OP again. I agree that messing with the flaylock is dangerous territory. A small change could cause it to become over powered, which is not what we are looking for here. Making the flaylock into an area denial weapon would involve giving it a large blast radius that did enough damage to be a serious threat. What you are asking for seems to be exactly what you are afraid of. The MD is already an area denial weapon, the flaylock can be a bit more unique. In my proposal its RoF, mag and damage recieve a boost but its blast radius does not. These changes allow the flaylock to do enough damage to be threatening but not able to dominate an opponent with unaimed blast radius damage. It should take some skill to use but be able to kill as well as anyother weapon. The SMG is too effective as it stands, even at militia level because there is no kick or rise. On one account I have no skills invested into the SMG and it easily out performs my fully skilled Scrambler Pistol, magsec, and along with their skill trees. For the Magsec it's too much all over the place. The dispersion is too much, and I think the best start for this weapon and the SMG is to find something between the two. For the Ion Pistol I feel it needs to have more range than the bolt pistol. For its damage however I feel it should come a bit short on non charged shots. It's not easy to get a charged shot with a scrambler pistol at long ranges, and the bolt pistol should not be any different. For that reason alone it needs more range in relation to the bolt pistol. The Bolt Pistol should be the only different operating weapon for the Caldari focusing on damage while sacrificing range. This will promote use of the weapon as well as give it a space for itself in the other line of Caldari side arms and weaponry. I look at it as an magnum or a desert eagle. it's Rate of fire should be slower when compared to the Ion pistol but like the Duvalle vs the Scrambler Rifle, it's relation should be similar. The Scrambler Pistol's RoF was what made this gun have it's own nich+¬. It's short range, low ammo count, +20% to shields and -20% to armor stack up made up for it's RoF balanced. Currently as this weapon stands now the only effective scrambler pistol is the Burst. The burst allows me to send damage down range while still being able to have a fighting chance in 1 on 1 engagements. As the other variants now this gun is useless on it's own. 9/10 engagements I have with my scrambler pistol it is far too easy to counter a player using this gun alone. This weapon has too much timeframe for blind targets to react when engaged due to it slow RoF. The lack of CQC this side arm use to be hinders players that use all or most amarr suits, and weapons. Previously the Assualt Scrambler pistol could be contrasted with a charge Scrambler Rifle, or Laser Rifle to balance this out. With how it stands and what you are purposing this is not viable anymore. Making the Flaylock an area denial weapon would not necessarily mean giving it a large blast radius equivalent to the mass driver. Placing the Flaylock on what you are purposing here puts it in about relation to where it use to be. There are tons of reasons on youtube to show what a high RoF will spell for this. Giving it only a RoF boost doesn't really put it in it's own niche, but puts it in a bad place to be again. Flaylock needs the slowest RoF to all the side arms, just because of the fact it can deal the most damage in a single shot, along with being the only side arm to deliver splash damage. With a high RoF the flay lock will dominate all other pistol variants. Before the introduction to the new side arms using a scrambler pistol against a flay lock user was suicide, due to the fact that it didn't necessarily have the same RoF as the Assault Scrambler pistol but because it had high damage, too big of a splash, and the only thing the scrambler rifle had was RoF which wasn't giving it much of a chance given its other stats etc. *Always Grey Skies*
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1789	Posted - 2014.09.05 18:58:00 - [104] - Quote Finn Colman wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: If the magsec doesn't get a dispersion/kick reduction I will be Pacific Ocean salty...I love the magsec. I have prof. 3 reload 3 and ammo 2 If it does get a kick/dispersion reduction don't you think that will make the weapon OP? As it stands it has more range and DPS thank the SMG, a weapon that is already a tad too usable. Your kidding me right? More DPS than the smg my arse....smg has much more DPS than the magsec. And the magsec suffers from the rail rifles ghost shots.(shots that do no damage) and a damage buff will make it OP not a dispersion or kick reduction I can speak from extensive experience in saying that generally the guy with the SMG beats the guy with the MagSec. Usually I'm the guy with the magsec... Under the right conditions (making use of the range advantage) however, the MagSec wins. Well if you look at the numbers the Magsec does do more DPS than the SMG. Please look at the spreadsheet at the beginning of this thread for mathematical confirmation if you like. The reason you might think it is lower is that fully applying the damage the Magsec puts out is more difficult, thanks to its recoil and barrel climb. Which leads me back to my question. If you eliminated that recoil and barrel climb from the Magsec woudn't that make it a totally dominant side arm thanks to its range, DPM (damage per magazine), and DPS? Remember, I'm not asking this to make anyone angry but so that we can think about all these proposed changes in a well reasoned manner. What I'm looking for is balance, making all the weapons have a realm of usability/specialization rather than the "this one is always the best" system we have had for a while. If we all think about it and come to the conclusion that reducing the recoil on the Magsec will simply make it competetive with the SMG then I am all for it. Now that I've said all of that I'd like to point out that it might be better to simply add more recoil and/or some barrel climb to the SMG, a weapon that many of us have said is far too easy to use and fit. I actually made a similar proposal when I started this tread which generated enough hate that I backed off but I really do think this is a move that would be positive for the game as a whole. Of course I will always take feedback before changing the spreadsheet. Fun > Realism
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1789	Posted - 2014.09.05 19:00:00 - [105] - Quote Rattati or Logi Bro- Could we get some numbers on how the barrel climb works on the different weapons? It doesn't need to be anything fancy or even nice looking but since accuracy keeps coming up this would be really helpful info for out balancing discussion. Fun > Realism
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK Intrepidus XI EoN. 206	Posted - 2014.09.05 19:02:00 - [106] - Quote Has anyone taken into account the nerf coming towards the projectile weaponry? I think if a small damage reduction isn't a viable choice add more vertical recoil to the weapon. Nothing too serious but enough to noticeably impaire the user if they don't control it, as opposed to it's current status requiring no effort on the back end besides holding the target on your enemy. Something like 1/4 of the magsec's recoil or even 2/4 if the first option isn't enough. The bolt pistol doesn't really need much done with it in my opinion, if anything the weapon operation skill needs to be changed. Why reduce recoil of a weapon that charges between rounds? The dam thing has already returned to it's original position by the time the next round is charged. Give it a slight damage boost/and or range boost along with a skill that better applies to the weapon. Something like charge speed reduction, clip size, or range. The magsec is almost perfect as it requires skill to use effectively, while it is easily outstrafed it is a rail tech weapon and should have some drawbacks (scout super strafing is bs nonetheless). All the weapon really needs is a scope and if that cannot be implemented without a clientside update then a reduction to recoil when ADS. On a side note the rail rifle is only slightly less accurate than the magsec when hipfired, and yet more dependable in cqc situations due to magnetism which is questionable. Planetside 2 Eventually Eh
Gabriella Grey Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 143	Posted - 2014.09.05 20:10:00 - [107] - Quote Mobius Kaethis I'm not talking about removing it, I am talking about finding a dispersion, kick, and rise between the Magsec and SMG that would be a more comparable start for these two weapons. As it stands the Magsec doesn't need increased damage, the problem with it is you cant keep the gun aimed well even down sights, and the SMG is the complete opposite. The best start for these weapons is a common ground, then skew data on each to make them different and balanced from each other. From the way the Magseg and SMG stands they are both at 63m or 66m at prototype. I am not a 100% sure on this but I don't remember seeing any range adjustments for the SMG since the new weapons were added. You are not alone that the SMG needs some serious balancing. The only people who don't want this fixed is those who or ignorant to how it effects other things in the game to make it enjoyable as an whole or the ones who are against it because it brings about change to something that they are abusing. I totally understand what you are trying to do here and please understand I think it is great. To disagree with someone doesn't mean it has to be a circus like many post can be on the forum. My intentions is only to help. If CCP is paying attention to you and your nice charts I want to help with things I have tested with others. I am not sure if CCP even regards anything I constantly put up here but if your here wanting to help out and they are willing to listen to you, I would like to give non bias information your way or anyones way to what state the game mechanics or functions are in. I just want to give the best feedback even if it is what most do not want to here. At least It shows I am dependable at being one to show favoritism to something just because I like it. *Always Grey Skies*
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1789	Posted - 2014.09.05 20:38:00 - [108] - Quote Gabriella Grey wrote: Mobius Kaethis I'm not talking about removing it, I am talking about finding a dispersion, kick, and rise between the Magsec and SMG that would be a more comparable start for these two weapons. As it stands the Magsec doesn't need increased damage, the problem with it is you cant keep the gun aimed well even down sights, and the SMG is the complete opposite. The best start for these weapons is a common ground, then skew data on each to make them different and balanced from each other. From the way the Magseg and SMG stands they are both at 63m or 66m at prototype. I am not a 100% sure on this but I don't remember seeing any range adjustments for the SMG since the new weapons were added. You are not alone that the SMG needs some serious balancing. The only people who don't want this fixed is those who or ignorant to how it effects other things in the game to make it enjoyable as an whole or the ones who are against it because it brings about change to something that they are abusing. I totally understand what you are trying to do here and please understand I think it is great. To disagree with someone doesn't mean it has to be a circus like many post can be on the forum. My intentions is only to help. If CCP is paying attention to you and your nice charts I want to help with things I have tested with others. I am not sure if CCP even regards anything I constantly put up here but if your here wanting to help out and they are willing to listen to you, I would like to give non bias information your way or anyones way to what state the game mechanics or functions are in. I just want to give the best feedback even if it is what most do not want to here. At least It shows I am dependable at being one to show favoritism to something just because I like it. Ahh now this I totally agree with. Giving the SMG 50% of the recoil of the Magsec and reducing the Magsec's recoil to 50% of what it currently has is a great idea for balancing. It would definitely give us some clearer numbers to work with with regards to both weapons since we would know any difference between the two is not caused by the recoil. Now currently both weapons accuracies are quite close. The SMG is at 52.89 while the Magsec is 55.01. Since these numbers are so close I'm going to say that recoil is probably one of those stats we don't actually get provided to us by CCP. BTW the effective range of the Magsec is 66m while the effective range of the SMG is 48m. Fun > Realism
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 302	Posted - 2014.09.05 21:29:00 - [109] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: BTW the effective range of the Magsec is 66m while the effective range of the SMG is 48m. Which is exactly why the Mag kicks like a mule. Working as intended. Hands off my SMG, please. Wanna fight me in my optimal zone? You die. Want to kill me from outside of my optimized zone? I die. Working as intended. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 302	Posted - 2014.09.05 21:43:00 - [110] - Quote Finn Colman wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: If the magsec doesn't get a dispersion/kick reduction I will be Pacific Ocean salty...I love the magsec. I have prof. 3 reload 3 and ammo 2 If it does get a kick/dispersion reduction don't you think that will make the weapon OP? As it stands it has more range and DPS thank the SMG, a weapon that is already a tad too usable. Your kidding me right? More DPS than the smg my arse....smg has much more DPS than the magsec. And the magsec suffers from the rail rifles ghost shots.(shots that do no damage) and a damage buff will make it OP not a dispersion or kick reduction I can speak from extensive experience in saying that generally the guy with the SMG beats the guy with the MagSec. Usually I'm the guy with the magsec... Under the right conditions (making use of the range advantage) however, the MagSec wins. ^True dat! Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

Mauren NOON The Exemplars 447	Posted - 2014.09.05 23:16:00 - [111] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: BTW the effective range of the Magsec is 66m while the effective range of the SMG is 48m. Which is exactly why the Mag kicks like a mule. Working as intended. Hands off my SMG, please. Wanna fight me in my optimal zone? You die. Want to kill me from outside of my optimized zone? I die. Working as intended. At the magsec's optimal it's really hard to consistently hit someone...Not working as intended Scr and commando enthusiast. Amarrica!
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 488	Posted - 2014.09.06 00:53:00 - [112] - Quote Rattati, hereGÇÖs my take on what the needs are for each sidearm: LetGÇÖs start with the ones that (in my opinion) need the least change and move to the ones that need more. 1)Bolt Pistol GÇô Performs extremely well in its role. Gives HMG, SG, AR, AsCR users a long range option. Very accurate and stable in ADS. Feels great. Need: Change Operation skill to 25% charge time reduction (recoil is irrelevant in ADS and not a difference maker when forced to hip fire, but even a little less charge time would make aiming a lot easier) Slightly larger clip Slightly more ammo Suggested variants: Burst Bolt Pistol GÇô Slightly less range, slightly less damage. Two rapid shots. Tactical Bolt Pistol GÇô Effective range increased to 76, slightly more damage, longer charge time, slightly more hip fire recoil, more zoom in ADS 2)Submachine Gun GÇô Performs extremely well in its role: finishing off enemies in CQC and serving as a flexible all-around sidearm for engagements inside 50m. A bit too efficient in applying its damage compared to other sidearms. Damage profile change will help it as a finisher, but hurt its flexibility. Assault SMG should be changed so itGÇÖs different, not just better. Need: Standard GÇô Slightly reduce damage; give it Assault SMG range Assault GÇô Slightly increase ROF; slightly increase dispersion, decrease effective range to 46m Breach GÇô Revamp it into the SMG with the longest range and least dispersion: keep ROF but boost damage to put DPS a tad under standard SMG; 55 meter effective range; less hip fire dispersion 3)Scrambler Pistol GÇô Works well in its role of applying damage inside 60m with good accuracy (if youGÇÖre accurate enough). ItGÇÖs fine, but honestly I think it would be a lot more fun to run the scrambler pistol if it had heat buildup. High enough heat buildup would keep it balanced, and cooldown would be slower than the scrambler rifle since the operations skill doesnGÇÖt affect it. IGÇÖm thinking a 20% increase in ROF with heat build up that will allow 8 rapid shots before overheat (slightly under 2/3 of clip). So with heat build up the scrambler pistols would look like this: (Compared to current variants) Standard GÇô Higher ROF to go with heat build up. Can be steady fired at just under current ROF to work through clip without overheating, or can be bursted quickly for alpha volleys, with a cooldown wait afterward (when bursted, can rapid fire 8 shots before overheat, leaving 5 in the clip) Assault GÇô Higher ROF; less damage; less heat build up than standard (can fire a whole clip without overheating at faster rate than current AScP, but doing less damage per round)(changed so itGÇÖs different than standard, not just better) Burst GÇô Higher ROF; longer burst interval; same heat build up as standard Breach GÇô Higher ROF; increased damage; more heat build up than standard (can GÇ£rapid fireGÇ¥ 6 shots before overheat) 4)Magsec Submachine Gun GÇô Close to performing perfectly in its niche--engaging at longer range with a punch and being serviceable in CQC--but current ADS recoil makes the gun quite inaccurate at range. Need: Keep hip fire recoil as it is but reduce ADS recoil Suggested variants: Burst Magsec SMG GÇô increased ROF; fires 4 round bursts Tactical Magsec SMG GÇô decreased ROF; slightly increased damage; reduced recoil; effective range increased to 69m; ADS has zoom scope 5)Flaylock Pistol GÇô In certain situations it still can finish off armor very quickly, but blast radius is really tight and damage per clip is low considering its extremely short range(not counting the occasional flaylock snipe). We know what itGÇÖs like when itGÇÖs OP and when itGÇÖs UP, so a middle ground needs to be found. Need: Larger blast radius (but not too big!); increased ROF; faster reload or increase clip size to 4 Suggested variants: Assault Flaylock Pistol GÇô increased splash radius; decreased damage, direct and splash; increased ROF; larger clip; increased ammo (see Assault Mass Driver) Tactical Flaylock Pistol GÇô shoots straight; faster projectile speed; 60m range before detonation; less damage, direct and splash; larger clip; increased ammo continued....
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 488	Posted - 2014.09.06 00:54:00 - [113] - Quote 6)Nova Knives GÇô These little guys are OP right now. They 2 shot heavies and 1 shot everyone else. They may not be considered a problem because for some reason not every cloaked scout is using them, but itGÇÖs like getting hit by a remote. YouGÇÖre done. I guess the counter is to keep an eye out for scouts, stay together in a protective phalanx, and take the knifer down before he gets close enough, but donGÇÖt we have enough of the game being dictated by scout behavior already without adding another way scouts can instapop people? Need: Reduce damage 7)Ion Pistol GÇô The ugly duckling. This gun struggles to apply its deficient DPS due to extremely short range and too much dispersion. ItGÇÖs charge shot can do a lot of damage if it hits, but youGÇÖre then a sitting duck due to the overheat. This gun needs a lot of changes in order to be effective in its role: applying major damage at very close range. It should keep its rate of fire so that it can succeed in its role of close range BLAP, but it needs a lot more damage and less dispersion to do it. It also needs its charge shot to work more effectively, with shorter charges, less damage per charge shot, and heat build up instead of auto-overheatGÇöallowing for multiple charge shots in a row before overheating. Need: Increase damage A LOT; increase heat build up per second (should be per shot) slightly; reduce dispersion; increase effective range to 45m; increase overheat damage and seize time Revamp charge shot GÇôreduce charge time by 40%; reduce damage by 40%; charge shots build up heat such thatGÇöstarting from no heatGÇöonly 4 can be fired before overheat; charge shots have 35m effective range Suggested variants: Assault Ion Pistol GÇô Increased ROF; reduced heat build up; 48m effective range; increased ammo; no charge shot Breach Ion Pistol GÇô Reduced ROF; increased damage; reduced dispersion; increased heat build up; charge shot has same charge time and damage as current Ion Pistol (can fire 2 charge shots before overheat)
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 202	Posted - 2014.09.06 02:05:00 - [114] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: 6)Nova Knives GÇô These little guys are OP right now. They 2 shot heavies and 1 shot everyone else. They may not be considered a problem because for some reason not every cloaked scout is using them, but itGÇÖs like getting hit by a remote. YouGÇÖre done. I guess the counter is to keep an eye out for scouts, stay together in a protective phalanx, and take the knifer down before he gets close enough, but donGÇÖt we have enough of the game being dictated by scout behavior already without adding another way scouts can instapop people? Need: Reduce damage 7)Ion Pistol GÇô The ugly duckling. This gun struggles to apply its deficient DPS due to extremely short range and too much dispersion. ItGÇÖs charge shot can do a lot of damage if it hits, but youGÇÖre then a sitting duck due to the overheat. This gun needs a lot of changes in order to be effective in its role: applying major damage at very close range. It should keep its rate of fire so that it can succeed in its role of close range BLAP, but it needs a lot more damage and less dispersion to do it. It also needs its charge shot to work more effectively, with shorter charges, less damage per charge shot, and heat build up instead of auto-overheatGÇöallowing for multiple charge shots in a row before overheating. Need: Increase damage A LOT; increase heat build up per second (should be per shot) slightly; reduce dispersion; increase effective range to 45m; increase overheat damage and seize time Revamp charge shot GÇôreduce charge time by 40%; reduce damage by 40%; charge shots build up heat such thatGÇöstarting from no heatGÇöonly 4 can be fired before overheat; charge shots have 35m effective range Suggested variants: Assault Ion Pistol GÇô Increased ROF; reduced heat build up; 48m effective range; increased ammo; no charge shot Breach Ion Pistol GÇô Reduced ROF; increased damage; reduced dispersion; increased heat build up; charge shot has same charge time and damage as current Ion Pistol (can fire 2 charge shots before overheat) One of the main reasons that nova knives are 'OP' is that when using them, I discover that the majority of players on the team have the worst awareness. THE WORST I tell you... and as a Sentinel, I find it quite difficult to get killed by a knifer consistently, but usually it's 50/50. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1700	Posted - 2014.09.06 02:57:00 - [115] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: 6)Nova Knives GÇô These little guys are OP right now. They 2 shot heavies and 1 shot everyone else. They may not be considered a problem because for some reason not every cloaked scout is using them, but itGÇÖs like getting hit by a remote. YouGÇÖre done. I guess the counter is to keep an eye out for scouts, stay together in a protective phalanx, and take the knifer down before he gets close enough, but donGÇÖt we have enough of the game being dictated by scout behavior already without adding another way scouts can instapop people? If you're bringing knives to a gunfight, and you are fast enough to get that close, you have earned your kill. Shoot Scout with yes.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 488	Posted - 2014.09.06 03:01:00 - [116] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: 6)Nova Knives GÇô These little guys are OP right now. They 2 shot heavies and 1 shot everyone else. They may not be considered a problem because for some reason not every cloaked scout is using them, but itGÇÖs like getting hit by a remote. YouGÇÖre done. I guess the counter is to keep an eye out for scouts, stay together in a protective phalanx, and take the knifer down before he gets close enough, but donGÇÖt we have enough of the game being dictated by scout behavior already without adding another way scouts can instapop people? If you're bringing knives to a gunfight, and you are fast enough to get that close, you have earned your kill. No. You haven't earned anything. You did the opposite of earning something. You put on kincats, cloaked up, ran behind someone, briefly held down R1, and released it.
Jace Kaisar 145	Posted - 2014.09.06 03:03:00 - [117] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: BTW the effective range of the Magsec is 66m while the effective range of the SMG is 48m. Which is exactly why the Mag kicks like a mule. Working as intended. Hands off my SMG, please. Wanna fight me in my optimal zone? You die. Want to kill me from outside of my optimized zone? I die. Working as intended. At the magsec's optimal it's really hard to consistently hit someone...Not working as intended It needs that bolt pistol scope I'm a Spooky Scary Ghost Before you ask, yes this is me.
Jace Kaisar 145	Posted - 2014.09.06 03:04:00 - [118] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: 6)Nova Knives GÇô These little guys are OP right now. They 2 shot heavies and 1 shot everyone else. They may not be considered a problem because for some reason not every cloaked scout is using them, but itGÇÖs like getting hit by a remote. YouGÇÖre done. I guess the counter is to keep an eye out for scouts, stay together in a protective phalanx, and take the knifer down before he gets close enough, but donGÇÖt we have enough of the game being dictated by scout behavior already without adding another way scouts can instapop people? If you're bringing knives to a gunfight, and you are fast enough to get that close, you have earned your kill. No. You haven't earned anything. You did the opposite of earning something. You put on kincats, cloaked up, ran behind someone, briefly held down R1, and released it. And you didn't run with a squad and regularly check your six. Scout used stealth and eWAR to get the drop on you. Working as intended. We punish the solo players who don't pay attention. Or those who are simply preoccupied with other things I'm a Spooky Scary Ghost Before you ask, yes this is me.
Jace Kaisar 145	Posted - 2014.09.06 03:12:00 - [119] - Quote Flaylock Pistol: Homogenized splash radius and damage across the tiers (1.5m and 150 splash damage. At max skills this gives it 1.875m splash and 202.5 splash damage VS. ARMOR) Direct damage increases across the tiers as follows 200, 250, 300 (with max skills, this deals 270, 337.5, 400.5. Please note that these are DIRECT shots with Max proficiency against armor. Increase projectile speed. OPTIONAL: Increase clip size by one. It's still good to use at basic tier by people who can't aim, but the real DPS comes from Proto tier direct shots, which are capable of blasting though people (Damage makes sense. You're hitting someone with a literal pocket rocket. Sucker should hurt.) Max DPC is 12001.5 or 1602 (3-4 Direct Shots) However, every missed direct shot subtracts around 200 damage from the target. Min - Max is as follows for the three round flaylock 600-1200 Typical users hit once directly and twice with splash, giving it a balanced DPC of 800, which is enough to kill most targets. I'm a Spooky Scary Ghost Before you ask, yes this is me.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 490	Posted - 2014.09.06 07:04:00 - [120] - Quote Jace Kaisar wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: 6)Nova Knives GÇô These little guys are OP right now. They 2 shot heavies and 1 shot everyone else. They may not be considered a problem because for some reason not every cloaked scout is using them, but itGÇÖs like getting hit by a remote. YouGÇÖre done. I guess the counter is to keep an eye out for scouts, stay together in a protective phalanx, and take the knifer down before he gets close enough, but donGÇÖt we have enough of the game being dictated by scout behavior already without adding another way scouts can instapop people? If you're bringing knives to a gunfight, and you are fast enough to get that close, you have earned your kill. No. You haven't earned anything. You did the opposite of earning something. You put on kincats, cloaked up, ran behind someone, briefly held down R1, and released it. And you didn't run with a squad and regularly check your six. Scout used stealth and eWAR to get the drop on you. Working as intended. We punish the solo players who don't pay attention. Or those who are simply preoccupied with other things It's so quiet you can quickly dispatch people who are near their squad mates and on comms, then duck away and cloak before anyone knows where to look. OP.



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