DUST Search - Side Arm Balance: Merging the Threads

Jace Kaisar wrote:

zzZaXxx wrote:

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

zzZaXxx wrote:

6)Nova Knives GÇô These little guys are OP right now. They 2 shot heavies and 1 shot everyone else. They may not be considered a problem because for some reason not every cloaked scout is using them, but itGÇÖs like getting hit by a remote. YouGÇÖre done. I guess the counter is to keep an eye out for scouts, stay together in a protective phalanx, and take the knifer down before he gets close enough, but donGÇÖt we have enough of the game being dictated by scout behavior already without adding another way scouts can instapop people?

If you're bringing knives to a gunfight, and you are fast enough to get that close, you have earned your kill.

No. You haven't earned anything. You did the opposite of earning something. You put on kincats, cloaked up, ran behind someone, briefly held down R1, and released it.

And you didn't run with a squad and regularly check your six.

Scout used stealth and eWAR to get the drop on you. Working as intended. We punish the solo players who don't pay attention.

Or those who are simply preoccupied with other things Twisted


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 485	Posted - 2014.09.04 15:30:00 - [1] - Quote Rattati, I don't understand why these threads need to be merged. What issues do the sidearms have in common? I think they're each a special case and would be best served by their own thread. If you think otherwise could you clarify the rason for merging the threads? Thanks!
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 488	Posted - 2014.09.06 00:53:00 - [2] - Quote Rattati, hereGÇÖs my take on what the needs are for each sidearm: LetGÇÖs start with the ones that (in my opinion) need the least change and move to the ones that need more. 1)Bolt Pistol GÇô Performs extremely well in its role. Gives HMG, SG, AR, AsCR users a long range option. Very accurate and stable in ADS. Feels great. Need: Change Operation skill to 25% charge time reduction (recoil is irrelevant in ADS and not a difference maker when forced to hip fire, but even a little less charge time would make aiming a lot easier) Slightly larger clip Slightly more ammo Suggested variants: Burst Bolt Pistol GÇô Slightly less range, slightly less damage. Two rapid shots. Tactical Bolt Pistol GÇô Effective range increased to 76, slightly more damage, longer charge time, slightly more hip fire recoil, more zoom in ADS 2)Submachine Gun GÇô Performs extremely well in its role: finishing off enemies in CQC and serving as a flexible all-around sidearm for engagements inside 50m. A bit too efficient in applying its damage compared to other sidearms. Damage profile change will help it as a finisher, but hurt its flexibility. Assault SMG should be changed so itGÇÖs different, not just better. Need: Standard GÇô Slightly reduce damage; give it Assault SMG range Assault GÇô Slightly increase ROF; slightly increase dispersion, decrease effective range to 46m Breach GÇô Revamp it into the SMG with the longest range and least dispersion: keep ROF but boost damage to put DPS a tad under standard SMG; 55 meter effective range; less hip fire dispersion 3)Scrambler Pistol GÇô Works well in its role of applying damage inside 60m with good accuracy (if youGÇÖre accurate enough). ItGÇÖs fine, but honestly I think it would be a lot more fun to run the scrambler pistol if it had heat buildup. High enough heat buildup would keep it balanced, and cooldown would be slower than the scrambler rifle since the operations skill doesnGÇÖt affect it. IGÇÖm thinking a 20% increase in ROF with heat build up that will allow 8 rapid shots before overheat (slightly under 2/3 of clip). So with heat build up the scrambler pistols would look like this: (Compared to current variants) Standard GÇô Higher ROF to go with heat build up. Can be steady fired at just under current ROF to work through clip without overheating, or can be bursted quickly for alpha volleys, with a cooldown wait afterward (when bursted, can rapid fire 8 shots before overheat, leaving 5 in the clip) Assault GÇô Higher ROF; less damage; less heat build up than standard (can fire a whole clip without overheating at faster rate than current AScP, but doing less damage per round)(changed so itGÇÖs different than standard, not just better) Burst GÇô Higher ROF; longer burst interval; same heat build up as standard Breach GÇô Higher ROF; increased damage; more heat build up than standard (can GÇ£rapid fireGÇ¥ 6 shots before overheat) 4)Magsec Submachine Gun GÇô Close to performing perfectly in its niche--engaging at longer range with a punch and being serviceable in CQC--but current ADS recoil makes the gun quite inaccurate at range. Need: Keep hip fire recoil as it is but reduce ADS recoil Suggested variants: Burst Magsec SMG GÇô increased ROF; fires 4 round bursts Tactical Magsec SMG GÇô decreased ROF; slightly increased damage; reduced recoil; effective range increased to 69m; ADS has zoom scope 5)Flaylock Pistol GÇô In certain situations it still can finish off armor very quickly, but blast radius is really tight and damage per clip is low considering its extremely short range(not counting the occasional flaylock snipe). We know what itGÇÖs like when itGÇÖs OP and when itGÇÖs UP, so a middle ground needs to be found. Need: Larger blast radius (but not too big!); increased ROF; faster reload or increase clip size to 4 Suggested variants: Assault Flaylock Pistol GÇô increased splash radius; decreased damage, direct and splash; increased ROF; larger clip; increased ammo (see Assault Mass Driver) Tactical Flaylock Pistol GÇô shoots straight; faster projectile speed; 60m range before detonation; less damage, direct and splash; larger clip; increased ammo continued....
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 488	Posted - 2014.09.06 00:54:00 - [3] - Quote 6)Nova Knives GÇô These little guys are OP right now. They 2 shot heavies and 1 shot everyone else. They may not be considered a problem because for some reason not every cloaked scout is using them, but itGÇÖs like getting hit by a remote. YouGÇÖre done. I guess the counter is to keep an eye out for scouts, stay together in a protective phalanx, and take the knifer down before he gets close enough, but donGÇÖt we have enough of the game being dictated by scout behavior already without adding another way scouts can instapop people? Need: Reduce damage 7)Ion Pistol GÇô The ugly duckling. This gun struggles to apply its deficient DPS due to extremely short range and too much dispersion. ItGÇÖs charge shot can do a lot of damage if it hits, but youGÇÖre then a sitting duck due to the overheat. This gun needs a lot of changes in order to be effective in its role: applying major damage at very close range. It should keep its rate of fire so that it can succeed in its role of close range BLAP, but it needs a lot more damage and less dispersion to do it. It also needs its charge shot to work more effectively, with shorter charges, less damage per charge shot, and heat build up instead of auto-overheatGÇöallowing for multiple charge shots in a row before overheating. Need: Increase damage A LOT; increase heat build up per second (should be per shot) slightly; reduce dispersion; increase effective range to 45m; increase overheat damage and seize time Revamp charge shot GÇôreduce charge time by 40%; reduce damage by 40%; charge shots build up heat such thatGÇöstarting from no heatGÇöonly 4 can be fired before overheat; charge shots have 35m effective range Suggested variants: Assault Ion Pistol GÇô Increased ROF; reduced heat build up; 48m effective range; increased ammo; no charge shot Breach Ion Pistol GÇô Reduced ROF; increased damage; reduced dispersion; increased heat build up; charge shot has same charge time and damage as current Ion Pistol (can fire 2 charge shots before overheat)
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 488	Posted - 2014.09.06 03:01:00 - [4] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: 6)Nova Knives GÇô These little guys are OP right now. They 2 shot heavies and 1 shot everyone else. They may not be considered a problem because for some reason not every cloaked scout is using them, but itGÇÖs like getting hit by a remote. YouGÇÖre done. I guess the counter is to keep an eye out for scouts, stay together in a protective phalanx, and take the knifer down before he gets close enough, but donGÇÖt we have enough of the game being dictated by scout behavior already without adding another way scouts can instapop people? If you're bringing knives to a gunfight, and you are fast enough to get that close, you have earned your kill. No. You haven't earned anything. You did the opposite of earning something. You put on kincats, cloaked up, ran behind someone, briefly held down R1, and released it.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 490	Posted - 2014.09.06 07:04:00 - [5] - Quote Jace Kaisar wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: 6)Nova Knives GÇô These little guys are OP right now. They 2 shot heavies and 1 shot everyone else. They may not be considered a problem because for some reason not every cloaked scout is using them, but itGÇÖs like getting hit by a remote. YouGÇÖre done. I guess the counter is to keep an eye out for scouts, stay together in a protective phalanx, and take the knifer down before he gets close enough, but donGÇÖt we have enough of the game being dictated by scout behavior already without adding another way scouts can instapop people? If you're bringing knives to a gunfight, and you are fast enough to get that close, you have earned your kill. No. You haven't earned anything. You did the opposite of earning something. You put on kincats, cloaked up, ran behind someone, briefly held down R1, and released it. And you didn't run with a squad and regularly check your six. Scout used stealth and eWAR to get the drop on you. Working as intended. We punish the solo players who don't pay attention. Or those who are simply preoccupied with other things It's so quiet you can quickly dispatch people who are near their squad mates and on comms, then duck away and cloak before anyone knows where to look. OP.
zzZaXxx D3ATH CARD 492	Posted - 2014.09.06 18:14:00 - [6] - Quote Quiet for my surrounding teammates. It doesn't alert everyone in the immediate area like the shotgun. The sound is not as loud or noticeable.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 495	Posted - 2014.09.07 17:42:00 - [7] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Regardless of weather you want it to or not, with level 5 operation, each shot now charges the weapon 25% more than it did before, even with the same length of a short tap. This means that the original 9.5 heat per shot is now 11.875 heat per shot. So now you are guaranteed an overheat on the 9th shot with short trigger pulls, and if you hold down one of the shots for a fraction of a second too long it becomes very easy to overheat it even on the 8th shot. Getting level 5 operation effectively removes a large portion of the damage you would be able to apply before an overheat otherwise. Basically, the more you invest in the weapon, the less you get out of it. It is almost exactly the opposite of the Scrambler Pistol really. Are you sure? IIRC heat build up in Dust is over time, so if charges are taking less time you should be able to mini-charge more in the same amount of time, thus getting more mini-charge shots per heat.