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Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 190	Posted - 2014.08.28 22:51:00 - [1] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: After numerous threads and many different ideas being thrown about we still don't have a single unified idea of how to balance side-arms. As many have pointed out the Ion Pistol and the Flaylock are both hugely underpowered. The other pistols while better are still poor options compared to the SMG and the Magsec SMG. I previously proposed balancing the pistols around an inverse range to damage relationship with the scrambler pistol as the mid point. BL4CKST4R proposed buffing many of the weapons stats as well as changing the heat mechanic of the ion pistol. Rattati further proposed that since the SMG is the most used weapon all the side arms should actually be balanced with it in mind. Many others also commented that because of its short range the ion pistol needed a much higher DPS than the bolt pistol. Taking these ideas into consideration I have revamped my original spreadsheet. The new sheet incorporates all of the ideas above and assumes the overheat mechanics proposed by BL4CKST4R. Please note that I have have only shown the stats for prototype weapons. These weapons should only be a 10% improvement over basic weapons with advanced ones lying right in the middle (5% weaker than proto 5% more powerful than basic) Ranges should be equalized across weapon tiers (like what was done with pistols). Weapon varients have not been included at this time but should be part of the balancing. I would of crouse like feed back about what to do with them. I am leaning towards the breach flaylock being an AV varient, and a decrease in pershot damage for the assault SMG (to make up for its higher rate of fire). Take a second, look the spread sheet over and make comments. Lets try to build something productive here. Sidearm Balance Spreadsheet Please note that I have included BL4CKST4R's spreadsheet as well so we can easily compare the two. There's only one thing wrong with your post... hardly anyone uses the Magsec. There's nothing wrong with the weapon, it's great, but being one of the few weapons having true recoil, people decide to use easier weapons that have no recoil. I find it easy to use, but I never see the poor thing in the killfeed... just because it has recoil... My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 190	Posted - 2014.08.29 02:57:00 - [2] - Quote THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Magsec needs to have a better scope, and needs less kick when aimed down sight. DPS feels fine. the SMG needs more kick as there is practically none. ^ This Give the magsec a reflex scope or something a little more powerful. Its a rail type weapon so I don't see why the single shot bolt pistol gets a scope while the magsec runs with an iron sight. I run the magsec on just about all of my cal suits scaling with their tier. Although can scopes even be implemented in a hotfix? I understand if it already exists but isn't set to the weapon but if its not is that possible? The magsec doesn't really have kick at all, it just bounces up and down to the exact same spot. It just appears to have 'kick' or 'recoil', and It's perfectly accurate, even at 50 or so meters, but after that you'll have damage falloff within a few meters. The thing I found quite odd was that the bolt pistol's model originally had no scope, while the magsec did, and that scope is the one that the bolt pistol has currently... There was also the mention of the suppressor on the magsec, as the model had it (it even does on the weapon selection wheel in game. Is it really that hard to remove the suppressor from the damn icon? That's just lazy in my book.), but the devs stated that it would not receive it, even though the first time we were shown it indeed had a suppressor. Although, I don't find the removal of the suppressor of the magsec an issue, but it's just the whole process that was... strange. That, and the Minmatar heavy's textures looked at little rushed with the release of 1.8. I shouldn't be able to see low res pixels along the entire body, other than head anyway, which retained minute detail and a higher res texture... very strange. Apologies for going off track. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 191	Posted - 2014.08.29 20:59:00 - [3] - Quote Erasmus Konstantin wrote: THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote: Erasmus Konstantin wrote: I like where we're going with the RoF boost to the bolt pistol, but the charge time between shots needs to go. No other automatic rail weapon works like that and it really cuts the dps as shown in the google doc. By all means leave the initial charge time in, in line with the other rail weapons. I wonder if buffing the hipfire would be going too far. I use the bolt pistol a lot, sometimes as a primary for fun, and while it is deadly pinpoint accurate in ADS, it could benefit a little bit more in CQC from having similar hipfire to the scrambler pistol. Both have similar crosshair bloom when continuously firing, but having that first shot accuracy be that much more accurate would lend it more of that 'skillshot' feel. Considering the initial charge time, you really need to make that first shot count, especially in close quarters. The charge between shots is the only thing keeping that weapon from being OP. Take that away and you got a mini semi auto sniper. The charge mechanic is pointless when you can just change the RoF, it would make it more in line with the other railguns. Also the bolt pistol is already fully automatic, just slow. You would still have the initial charge when you release the trigger and pull it again. At standard, with a base of 135 damage, it would become overpowered. There's no question to it. If you were to increase the RoF, then the maximum would be 5-10% increase. Perhaps increasing the magazine by 1-2 rounds would be nice, but it's balanced as is. People just don't tend to like non-spray-and-pray weapons. It's excellent in the right hands. Other rail weapons do work like that btw, with the charge between shots (maybe it doesn't actually charge, but it works the exact same way with it's RoF on turrets). It's just that it isn't displayed with the rail turrets. Once 'charged', you have a set amount of time inbetween shots that are either charging, or simply have a low RoF. There is essentially no difference... My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 191	Posted - 2014.08.30 03:18:00 - [4] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Pseudogenesis wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Nova Knives - With the latest buff they have become the nearest thing to a modern day flaylock, i.e. a sidearm widely used as a primary weapon. Seeing people get a lot of 30 or 40 kill games with them. Maybe the increase in range brought in in Charlie should be rolled back a little so it's less of a 'shotgun in a sidearm slot'. You want to remove the one thing that made nova knives enjoyable to use? Do they have to be OP for them to be enjoyable to use? Plenty of people had fun with them before. And in any case, I'm not saying put them back to exactly how they used to be, just dial it back a little. It should be possible to get 40 kill games with a sidearm but not easy like it is now with NKs. If you get a 40 kill game with nova knives and nova knives alone then you're a god amongst men playing against a team of people playing video games for the first time. They're not overpowered, not even close. If you're playing against a competent team, pulling high scores with scrambler pistols or the SMG is far easier. Do you even use them? Every once in a while I'll get games where my team (non proto stacked team), eradicates the enemy team and then continues to hack and hold all of the objectives in the first minute or two, while the redberries are sitting on the redline or reverted to sniping for the remainder of the match. I'm there thinking "You... can't.... you can't be serious. Already?! How?". Then I get hate mail from a player on the enemy team, and I almost feel bad for how effortless it was to kill them... even if I'm new to a game, I'm never as bad as they were. Then those people come to the forums... My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 192	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:49:00 - [5] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: SMG - No one has ever complained about SMGs being OP. They are the one thing in this game that has always been balanced. Leave as they are. ScP - Not the god mode weapon they were prior to the assault variant RoF reduction but remain very effective. Still kill more quickly than an SMG in the hands of a skilled user. Leave as they are. Magsec SMG - Obviously it's fantastic having that range in a sidearm, so there has to be a tradeoff in terms of damage application. Nevertheless a small buff may be reasonable. Either kick reduction or slight (5% or so) damage increase. Flaylock pistol - They are a little UP but tread VERY carefully. When these were good the game was absolutely horrible. It was frequently used as a primary weapon and explosive spam was everywhere. I would discourage increases to blast radius as it is this, not damage per se, that is the real killer with this weapon - it is impossible to respond once you're hit as your aim is thrown all over the place. Getting that massive advantage over your opponent should remain a matter of skill. Maybe a slight increase to damage would be okay. Nova Knives - With the latest buff they have become the nearest thing to a modern day flaylock, i.e. a sidearm widely used as a primary weapon. Seeing people get a lot of 30 or 40 kill games with them. Maybe the increase in range brought in in Charlie should be rolled back a little so it's less of a 'shotgun in a sidearm slot'. Ion pistol and bolt pistol - Don't know. SMG - leave alone ScP - leave alone (could consider dialing back the headshot multiplier from 450% to 400%) Magsec SMG - range trumps everything; no buffs required Flaylock - UP, needs love Nova Knives - recent changes over corrected; dial range back to 2m Ion & Bolt - don't know The thing I get with the flaylock is even when I hit the ground around someones feet (no more than half a foot away from them), it may or may not do any damage... With such an immensely small splash radius, it seems far too inconsistent to be viable as a sidearm (especially with lag, which is unforgiving with this weapon), especially in comparison to others. It the radius were to be increased, and proves too easy to use, then you could just adjust the damage accordingly. I don't think the issue is any longer of it being a skillshot weapon, but of it simply being viable in most encounters. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 193	Posted - 2014.08.31 16:47:00 - [6] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: no offence but your evaluation of scr pistols is completely wrong here.. if you go out into some matches you'll find the Scr Pistol does not match up to the smg at all... infact the dps of the scp is much slower than it seems due to the restrained firing ability that came with it's previous nerfs... rest assured more nerfs to the pathetic attempt at a pistol are not necessary, infact i think it's assault variant should be buffed to provide a higher ROF to match the punch of other side arms. That 'restrained' firing ability is a mere delay, and like all delays, they can be somewhat overlapped, and 'increase' the RoF. By trying to fire faster (not too fast, you'll miss time the delay) you can increase the RoF from 301 on the Assault Scrambler Pistol to about the same of the Rail Rifle's, which is around 460 RoF I believe. It's the same with the Combat Rifle, which has the slightest delay between shots. Once you figure out the delay's time, you can nearly fire it as fast as the Assault varient, a fully automatic 1200 RoF. Even the Tactical Assault Rifle does this, and once figured out, it can be shot somewhat (not quite) like the Scrambler Rifle, which has no delay at all due to it's RoF being set way up at 750. My estimate for the maximum potential for the Tactical Assault Rifle's RoF would be around 600-650, maybe a little lower. The Burst Assault Rifle also has delay, that when overcome, allows you to put nearly twice as many bullets down range. It's all about timing... PS: I've also been annihilating people with my new Viziam and Carthum Scrambler Pistols. I think they fine as is. Not overpowered, and not too easy to use for most people. Also, does anyone find it odd that the IA5 Tactical Scrambler Pistol that we get from salvage, an advanced tiered weapon, has worse stats than the standard Assault Scrambler Pistol? My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 193	Posted - 2014.08.31 16:51:00 - [7] - Quote THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote: bogeyman m wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: SMG - No one has ever complained about SMGs being OP. They are the one thing in this game that has always been balanced. Leave as they are. ScP - Not the god mode weapon they were prior to the assault variant RoF reduction but remain very effective. Still kill more quickly than an SMG in the hands of a skilled user. Leave as they are. Magsec SMG - Obviously it's fantastic having that range in a sidearm, so there has to be a tradeoff in terms of damage application. Nevertheless a small buff may be reasonable. Either kick reduction or slight (5% or so) damage increase. Flaylock pistol - They are a little UP but tread VERY carefully. When these were good the game was absolutely horrible. It was frequently used as a primary weapon and explosive spam was everywhere. I would discourage increases to blast radius as it is this, not damage per se, that is the real killer with this weapon - it is impossible to respond once you're hit as your aim is thrown all over the place. Getting that massive advantage over your opponent should remain a matter of skill. Maybe a slight increase to damage would be okay. Nova Knives - With the latest buff they have become the nearest thing to a modern day flaylock, i.e. a sidearm widely used as a primary weapon. Seeing people get a lot of 30 or 40 kill games with them. Maybe the increase in range brought in in Charlie should be rolled back a little so it's less of a 'shotgun in a sidearm slot'. Ion pistol and bolt pistol - Don't know. SMG - leave alone ScP - leave alone (could consider dialing back the headshot multiplier from 450% to 400%) Magsec SMG - range trumps everything; no buffs required Flaylock - UP, needs love Nova Knives - recent changes over corrected; dial range back to 2m Ion & Bolt - don't know Range means nothing when you can't hit your target. I can hit people out to 60 meters out with the Magsec... what's your excuse? It doesn't climb at all, and bounces up and down slightly, but it always goes back to the same spot, making it incredibly accurate if you're able to ignore the animation and focus on the center dot of the iron sight. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 193	Posted - 2014.08.31 19:20:00 - [8] - Quote THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK wrote: bogeyman m wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: SMG - No one has ever complained about SMGs being OP. They are the one thing in this game that has always been balanced. Leave as they are. ScP - Not the god mode weapon they were prior to the assault variant RoF reduction but remain very effective. Still kill more quickly than an SMG in the hands of a skilled user. Leave as they are. Magsec SMG - Obviously it's fantastic having that range in a sidearm, so there has to be a tradeoff in terms of damage application. Nevertheless a small buff may be reasonable. Either kick reduction or slight (5% or so) damage increase. Flaylock pistol - They are a little UP but tread VERY carefully. When these were good the game was absolutely horrible. It was frequently used as a primary weapon and explosive spam was everywhere. I would discourage increases to blast radius as it is this, not damage per se, that is the real killer with this weapon - it is impossible to respond once you're hit as your aim is thrown all over the place. Getting that massive advantage over your opponent should remain a matter of skill. Maybe a slight increase to damage would be okay. Nova Knives - With the latest buff they have become the nearest thing to a modern day flaylock, i.e. a sidearm widely used as a primary weapon. Seeing people get a lot of 30 or 40 kill games with them. Maybe the increase in range brought in in Charlie should be rolled back a little so it's less of a 'shotgun in a sidearm slot'. Ion pistol and bolt pistol - Don't know. SMG - leave alone ScP - leave alone (could consider dialing back the headshot multiplier from 450% to 400%) Magsec SMG - range trumps everything; no buffs required Flaylock - UP, needs love Nova Knives - recent changes over corrected; dial range back to 2m Ion & Bolt - don't know Range means nothing when you can't hit your target. I can hit people out to 60 meters out with the Magsec... what's your excuse? It doesn't climb at all, and bounces up and down slightly, but it always goes back to the same spot, making it incredibly accurate if you're able to ignore the animation and focus on the center dot of the iron sight. Never said I couldn't hit people with it at a distance, its a skill weapon at the moment which I would prefer it stay, benefits from no aim assist/magnetism whatsoever. I never threw out any recoil reduction suggestions all I wanted was a scope, considering its caldari tech that's all it needs. The smg on the other hand is just point and shoot there's next to no recoil with that thing, no real drawbacks excluding its range since its a sidearm. Won't toss my ideas out on that once since I don't use it. For future revision, when you say something along the lines of 'Range mean nothing when you can't hit your target.', it's generally assumed that the one who said it is the one who can indeed not do it (or do it, depending on the wording and/or context), unless stated otherwise. It is true that the Smg is painfully easy to use with absolutely no recoil, even towards the end of the magazine where is gently rises. I also don't like how recoil is done in Dust. It just doesn't make sense in the mechanics of a weapon, and adding actual recoil can balance and fix several issues. Recoil over time makes no sense. Unless the projectile was being shot harder and faster in order to achieve a greater distance, and it continually progresses in this state at a steady rate over time, then it would make sense that recoil eventually arises when shooting. No weapon works like that... nothing of which that could be held by a mere human anyway. Recoil should be per bullet. Weapons that do this are the Smg, Assault Rifle, Assault Combat Rifle, and a few others. The one exception is the Hmg, which SLOWLY increases in... well it isn't kick, but it's of that variety. The reason why is that to hold onto an object of that size and is constantly vibrating for a continuous period of time could lax the grip of the user, causing it to slowly rise upward. It's like using any handheld electric saw. That sh*t will wear your arms off. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 200	Posted - 2014.09.05 04:42:00 - [9] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Gabriella Grey wrote: I'm not a fan of much of the proposed changes on this. Much of this is taking what is current and flipping it on it's head, which isn't really fixing most if any of the issues. The Scrambler pistols current rate of fire in the assault variant should be where any semi-automatic weapon should not be. The scrambler pistol should be placed back to where it was. In that relation the scrambler pistol has better relation to the SMG and Magsec. I have no issues with the magsec, but I do with the SMG, and that is due to mainly it has no kick, gun rise, and dispersion etc. The magsec is more balanced with this compared to the SMG, but the Magsec sometimes feels as if it has too much of this seriously hindering its accuracy. Giving the Ion pistol too much DPS i feel is an issue even though it has a charge option, simply because of the fact of its +10 -10 percentile. I would see its ROF below the KLO scrambler pistol making it focus more on damage without overshadowing the scrambler pistol variant in the assault, burst, and breach categories. Bolt pistol I would generalize round about just below the breach scrambler pistol variant making it focus on continuous heavy damage where the bolt pistol can really shine. Lastly the flaylock doesn't need a high ROF in the slightest. This is a handheld mass driver. It should have a slowest ROF compared to the other weapons, and concentrate on damage. With that said then we can look at bringing its splash damage out a bit more, while keeping its clip size the same or shortening it further. Bringing back the flaylock pistol to where it originally was is just going to disrupt light and side arms weapons making the flaylock the answer to most scenarios again. The reason the flaylock was bad because it had too much of a splash radius, high rate of fire, and did a great deal of damage. If it is tweaked along the lines of making this weapon into an area denial weapon as its sister weapon the mass driver we should see more use from the flaylock while the other weapons and side arms are not overshadowed by it. I think many do not see the hand gun as weapons that should be able to effectively kill infantry as a stand alone weapon, but with limitations, such as range, splash damage, and small magazine sizes. Having these things will limit them to still being side arms but effective none the less, but these side arms limited ammo will make them useful for 1 on 1 scenarios, but make them struggle when faced in a less controlled fire fight scenario. Honestly I had a hard time reading your post, which is why I added paragraphs, but I think I get the general gist. I'm going to summarize your points here and take a second to respond to them. 1) You state that the ScP's rate of fire should be brought back to pre-1.8 levels, and the SMG needs an increase in either dispersion or barrel climb to make it perform on par with the Magsec. I don't really feel that the ScP's RoF is the only way to make it more competitive which is why I proposed it get a small buff to several stats. As far as your proposal to change the SMG that would be highly disagreeable to many players though I must admit I agree on one level but it is also the only side arm that is currently useful. All other side arms really just need to be brought up to its level of usefulness including the Magsec. Although I loved the RoF on the Scrambler Pistol, they were indeed overpowered, and certainly do not need a buff to pre 1.8 levels, maybe a SMALL increase, but they operate just fine as is. Also, it can fire it faster than others think it can. All you have to do is try and perfect the delay time inbetween shots. It's the same as the combat rifle, when trying to fire it as if it were fully automatic. The current Scrambler Pistol is just fine, especially dual Viziams or Carthums on my ADV Amarr Assaut suit that is reping at about 24hp/s. The range on them is amazing as well. They are very deadly in the right hand, and fair well in the majority of confrontations for a mere sidearm. I'd would prefer that small, minute changes be made to the Scrambler Pistol, if any were to be made. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 202	Posted - 2014.09.06 02:05:00 - [10] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: 6)Nova Knives GÇô These little guys are OP right now. They 2 shot heavies and 1 shot everyone else. They may not be considered a problem because for some reason not every cloaked scout is using them, but itGÇÖs like getting hit by a remote. YouGÇÖre done. I guess the counter is to keep an eye out for scouts, stay together in a protective phalanx, and take the knifer down before he gets close enough, but donGÇÖt we have enough of the game being dictated by scout behavior already without adding another way scouts can instapop people? Need: Reduce damage 7)Ion Pistol GÇô The ugly duckling. This gun struggles to apply its deficient DPS due to extremely short range and too much dispersion. ItGÇÖs charge shot can do a lot of damage if it hits, but youGÇÖre then a sitting duck due to the overheat. This gun needs a lot of changes in order to be effective in its role: applying major damage at very close range. It should keep its rate of fire so that it can succeed in its role of close range BLAP, but it needs a lot more damage and less dispersion to do it. It also needs its charge shot to work more effectively, with shorter charges, less damage per charge shot, and heat build up instead of auto-overheatGÇöallowing for multiple charge shots in a row before overheating. Need: Increase damage A LOT; increase heat build up per second (should be per shot) slightly; reduce dispersion; increase effective range to 45m; increase overheat damage and seize time Revamp charge shot GÇôreduce charge time by 40%; reduce damage by 40%; charge shots build up heat such thatGÇöstarting from no heatGÇöonly 4 can be fired before overheat; charge shots have 35m effective range Suggested variants: Assault Ion Pistol GÇô Increased ROF; reduced heat build up; 48m effective range; increased ammo; no charge shot Breach Ion Pistol GÇô Reduced ROF; increased damage; reduced dispersion; increased heat build up; charge shot has same charge time and damage as current Ion Pistol (can fire 2 charge shots before overheat) One of the main reasons that nova knives are 'OP' is that when using them, I discover that the majority of players on the team have the worst awareness. THE WORST I tell you... and as a Sentinel, I find it quite difficult to get killed by a knifer consistently, but usually it's 50/50. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.

Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 202	Posted - 2014.09.06 17:33:00 - [11] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Jace Kaisar wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: 6)Nova Knives GÇô These little guys are OP right now. They 2 shot heavies and 1 shot everyone else. They may not be considered a problem because for some reason not every cloaked scout is using them, but itGÇÖs like getting hit by a remote. YouGÇÖre done. I guess the counter is to keep an eye out for scouts, stay together in a protective phalanx, and take the knifer down before he gets close enough, but donGÇÖt we have enough of the game being dictated by scout behavior already without adding another way scouts can instapop people? If you're bringing knives to a gunfight, and you are fast enough to get that close, you have earned your kill. No. You haven't earned anything. You did the opposite of earning something. You put on kincats, cloaked up, ran behind someone, briefly held down R1, and released it. And you didn't run with a squad and regularly check your six. Scout used stealth and eWAR to get the drop on you. Working as intended. We punish the solo players who don't pay attention. Or those who are simply preoccupied with other things It's so quiet you can quickly dispatch people who are near their squad mates and on comms, then duck away and cloak before anyone knows where to look. OP. Nova Knives are quiet for you? I find them to be loud as f*ck. If you attempt to knife me and miss, I'm going to turn 180 on your ass. What level of volume do you people play on? I like to be able to hear things to point of one's footsteps, which are quiet on anything but the dirt/gravel/sand across the field. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.

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