Edit: Oh, that -20% against armor everyone likes to point out as a weakness, is a joke. The ScR still does just as much damage after it's -20% as the RR does to armor with it's +10%.

so the best answer is to make it as useless as the standard sniper? That thing is a joke most assaults and all heavies just laugh and find cover for a second.... I really don't want its rate of fire nerfed. I want a program installed where if button presses of a single button exceed X it denies your controller from being used until you shut it off and restart the controller. It would stop turbo controllers from even being used. The turbo turds are the issue not the scrambler.

What exactly would that number be 8,9,10?
What about people who reach those manually?

This is exactly why it's needs a harsher ROF cap, because people can and will achieve these values, and absolutely obliterate.
It's that or nerf the damage.

You've obviously never used the ScR if you think that. RR is full auto and can out range the ScR AND doesnt have to worry about overheat. That -20 also kills any hope of a ranged engagement because it stacks with the range penalty so any attempt to engage past optimum is often met with only 20-40% of damage applied which is pathetic. Heavies are pretty much immune to the gun because not enough damage can be applied before the over heat triggers if you die to scramblers in a heavy your just plain bad.

Does this make you feel any better?

It's always been considered AWESOME, now people are starting to use it as all the old fotms have been nerfed...

So you're suggestion is to punish players who have skill and learned to master a gun. That's a great way to go about things. Sorry your to good so we have to destroy the thing you've spent months practising with.

This pretty much sums up my feelings of the forums unfortunately I find myself having to come here to have any sort of voice or meaningful opinion. But that's not why I'm here.

I'm here to ask you- no to beg you to actually think for yourselves and not to listen to the vocal fear mongering minority that is demanding this amazing rifle be cast down to the depth of implayability. This work of art has stood untouched for over 6 months since 1.8 and not once, not a single time has it ever been consider OP, for a long while it was considered the exact opposite and buffs were actual considered! This gun is arguably the most BALANCED gun in the game and the flak I will receive for saying just that will cement my opinion of the forum. The Amarr Assault has always had this bonus and again it was never complained about never once uttered as OP.

But for some unfathomable reason with the advent of hot-fix Charlie where not a single statistic on the Scrambler rifle has changed it has suddenly become more OP then any gun in the game. More OP the the Rail Rifle of Combat Rifle?!

I am telling you, as someone who's stuck with you since beta through thick and thin, if you destroy the viability of this weapon I will leave and never look back. Destiny is only weeks away it won't be hard. Tweak it if you have to, appease the minority with a tiny nerf to rate of fire OR dispersion. BUT please don't give in and ruin the one gun that has kept me playing since its release.

Well said... The funny thing is, people advocating these changes are the same people who screams "OP" every single update/Build... Finally after a long time i'm seeing so many different weapons on the kill feed... It's nice and it shows something... A close enough balance... All the Scrubs are just crying over the Weapon they haven't specced into...

What exactly would that number be 8,9,10?
What about people who reach those manually?

This is exactly why it's needs a harsher ROF cap, because people can and will achieve these values, and absolutely obliterate.
It's that or nerf the damage.

It's not that I think that, it's that I know that. Do the math and you'll see the the Adv ScR does around 1 point more damage to armor than the Adv RR and the proto ScR does around .5 more damage to armor than the proto RR. And if you're engaging any weapon within their optimum while they're outside of yours, well that's just idiotic. Like I said, any semi competent person that uses it properly will wreck anything that comes at them, even heavies.

This pretty much sums up my feelings of the forums unfortunately I find myself having to come here to have any sort of voice or meaningful opinion. But that's not why I'm here.

I'm here to ask you- no to beg you to actually think for yourselves and not to listen to the vocal fear mongering minority that is demanding this amazing rifle be cast down to the depth of implayability. This work of art has stood untouched for over 6 months since 1.8 and not once, not a single time has it ever been consider OP, for a long while it was considered the exact opposite and buffs were actual considered! This gun is arguably the most BALANCED gun in the game and the flak I will receive for saying just that will cement my opinion of the forum. The Amarr Assault has always had this bonus and again it was never complained about never once uttered as OP.

But for some unfathomable reason with the advent of hot-fix Charlie where not a single statistic on the Scrambler rifle has changed it has suddenly become more OP then any gun in the game. More OP the the Rail Rifle of Combat Rifle?!

I am telling you, as someone who's stuck with you since beta through thick and thin, if you destroy the viability of this weapon I will leave and never look back. Destiny is only weeks away it won't be hard. Tweak it if you have to, appease the minority with a tiny nerf to rate of fire OR dispersion. BUT please don't give in and ruin the one gun that has kept me playing since its release.

Again a rail rifle is full auto has better range and doesnt have to worry about overheat. It can easily just keep firing its entire mag without thought while the scrambler has to get in range and watch for overheat while tapping the trigger repeatedly. It takes skill and practice to do all thouse things simultaniously where as i can pick up a RR turn off my brain and go 30/4 without breaking a sweat.

The ScR fires faster than the RR does so it being full auto doesn't mean a thing. And while the RR doesn't have an overheat it does have a pretty mean kick which makes staying on target at long range slightly difficult unless they're standing still. The overheat on the ScR is only a problem in CQC and when you're outnumbered or facing a heavy (but that makes you an idiot).

Also, lol at it taking "skill"; the only thing that takes skill in this game is consistently hitting people at long range with the MD & PC.

The ScR fires faster than the RR does so it being full auto doesn't mean a thing. And while the RR doesn't have an overheat it does have a pretty mean kick which makes staying on target at long range slightly difficult unless they're standing still. The overheat on the ScR is only a problem in CQC and when you're outnumbered or facing a heavy (but that makes you an idiot).

Also, lol at it taking "skill"; the only thing that takes skill in this game is consistently hitting people at long range with the MD & PC.

why not just lower its ammo to 25 . hell charge shot does hell'va lot of damage .

You can only fire as fast as you pull the trigger and when doing that you're going to overheat because overheat is a major problem in every single engagement. If you want to avoid it you'll be firing SIGNIFICANTLY slower then a Rail Rifle. And dont even give me the bullshit about recoil because its so easy to control and if you can only hit stationary targets with it you really should be making comments about balance of weapons you haven't even used.

Not only that but your a hypocrite by saying that controlling the recoil takes skill which you then say nothing in the game beside MDs & PCs take.

So you're suggestion is to punish players who have skill and learned to master a gun. That's a great way to go about things. Sorry your to good so we have to destroy the thing you've spent months practising with.

Saying something is slightly difficult isn't the same as saying it takes skill and I didn't say you could only hit stationary targets with it. I'd also like to point out that in my first post I said that I went 22/0 on a vehicle alt with no infantry skills (the kind of character that dies as fast as you can blink) using the militia ScR. I'm not talking out my ass, I have experience with the weapon and am currently skilling into the amarr assault with the hope that I can properly abuse it before it's nerfed.

You're only going to overheat pulling the trigger as fast as you can before killing who you're shooting at if they're far away or a heavy; anything else will be dead shortly after you start firing.

This could and has been said by everyone who had their FOTM up for review on these forums. I'll say it again, the closest weapon to the scrambler is the Tactical assault rifle. If the ScR is fine where it is then the TAR needs to get its hipfire dispersion, kick, and ROF buffed. It's also ridiculous that the ScR has the same ROF as the assault ScR.

Even with the proposed changes, at least the ones I'm backing, it still has its neiche of being one of two single shot rifles (Not counting the SR) with the unique ability to charge up without any movement penalty for a high alpha shot.

But sure, claim how the ScR is different from the AR, CR, RR, and every other weapon that needed to be toned down because the ScR "Din' do nuffin'!"

But when every other FOTM rose to power it was because of a change that CCP made to it or an unintended glitch that didnt get fixed for ages. With this the only this that changed is the META of the game. The scrambler is the same as it's been for months, just because it has gained popularity does not mean it need a nerf.

And comparing it to the tac AR is silly, for lack of the better word. the scrambler is a designated single shot rifle with multiple drawbacks where as the Tac AR is a variant of a full auto weapon that also grants access to 3 other varients

You've obviously never used the ScR if you think that. RR is full auto and can out range the ScR AND doesnt have to worry about overheat. That -20 also kills any hope of a ranged engagement because it stacks with the range penalty so any attempt to engage past optimum is often met with only 20-40% of damage applied which is pathetic. Heavies are pretty much immune to the gun because not enough damage can be applied before the over heat triggers if you die to scramblers in a heavy your just plain bad.

As to your first point, when I first started I used Minmitar suits and Caldari was the FOTM for shield tanking. Then armor got buffed and shields were no longer good in comparison as the TTK rose for Gallente and Amarr. Guess what, I got nerfed as minmitar was shield based back then. I had nothing to do with the Caldari FOTM but it turns out tweaking things can have unintended consequences. The ScR hasn't been changed in ages, but all the other rifles have been nerfed. This in effect has buffed the ScR since its remained untouched. Get it?

As to your second bit, the assault scrambler is viable in its own right. All variants are viable in their own right. The TAR should be on the same level as the ScR or at least slightly lower. There's a massive stat gap between the TAR and the ScR and that's not right.

I realize you have a hard on for the ScR and want your FOTM to remain in tact, like I said everyone goes through this when their weapons/gear are the FOTM. If you need help coping, you can join the tankers support group.

Eh, ScR out ranges the RR by 40 meters. Still, I just want the ScR to stay how it is. just the range is a little crazy, so you could nerf that I wont complain.

Its hardly flavour of the month for me, I've had a hardon, as you so eloquently put it, for scramblers since their release, every skill pertaining to it is at lvl 5. It more of the FOTY for me. But you're saying that instead of fixing the original problem that broke the system, you'd rather break something else to balance it.

The other rifles got nerfed cause they were in a whole nother league and really they still kind of are. But to say tthat AR variants should be as good as the ScR? your insane. What would be the point of any other rifle when the AR can just surpass them with out the extra SP? No it's main purpose is a Full auto brawler anything else like the TAc and Burst variants should only ever be pale imitations of the true weapons like the Scr and CR respectively.

But honestly I have yet to see one argument that is logical and actually proves that the Scrambler is OP.

It's not that I think that, it's that I know that. Do the math and you'll see the the Adv ScR does around 1 point more damage to armor than the Adv RR and the proto ScR does around .5 more damage to armor than the proto RR. And if you're engaging any weapon within their optimum while they're outside of yours, well that's just idiotic. Like I said, any semi competent person that uses it properly will wreck anything that comes at them, even heavies.

Alpha charge shot + a few blasts, if you think that's the same as a TAR i'm going to call bs on you having used ScR all this time, or you are a bad player.

Personally, I think you're just acting like the old tanker guys that believed tanks were perfectly balanced in 1.7

It's not that I think that, it's that I know that. Do the math and you'll see the the Adv ScR does around 1 point more damage to armor than the Adv RR and the proto ScR does around .5 more damage to armor than the proto RR. And if you're engaging any weapon within their optimum while they're outside of yours, well that's just idiotic. Like I said, any semi competent person that uses it properly will wreck anything that comes at them, even heavies.

So you're suggestion is to punish players who have skill and learned to master a gun. That's a great way to go about things. Sorry your to good so we have to destroy the thing you've spent months practising with.

You wanna talk about guns that take skill to use right?

Go use a Flaylock.

Anyways: The real problem of the ScR isn't in it's stats. The stats aren't bad. It's the Amarr Assault bonus.

Pick up a normal ScR on a non-AA suit. It functions as intended, being able to put rounds down range, but not being able to sustain for long due to overheat.

On an AA? Spam City. SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM.

That's not skill, it's easy as hell.

Now I'm not saying that there are some damn fine ScR users out there. I've seen them. What I'm saying is that the ScR needs to become less of a Spam weapon in the hands of an Amarr Assault.

ONTO MY FIX
What would be better is to give them a cooldown bonus on the suit. I know that the OP skill already has one, but think about it this way. It's a safeguard. Instead of allowing you to fire more shots without worry, it cuts down on the fire intervals.

For example. Lets say that you can fire 16 shots with the ScR at current skills. This is with the 25% reduction. So, after this, lets assume that you can only fire 12 shots before overheating.

12 shots at 71.5 base damage is still a large amount. That's 858 base damage, not including headshots or proficiency. You also fire at 8 shots a second (Assuming unmodded controller here. This is around 500 RPM) ] amounting to 572 DPS.

Okay, but you overheat. 5s seize duration. Since you can't fire any longer, lets assume this time is "Tacked on". You deal 858 damage over 1.5s + 5s overheat. Total? 132 DPS. Now, your instantaneous DPS is much higher, but this makes the gun appeal to the "Spam". Since you can achieve such high DPS for a burst (over range), standard practice is to squeeze off as many shots as you possibly can to drop the target instantly, before the match gets too drawn out to cause overheat. This gives it a VERY low TTK, and gives rise to modded controllers.

But how about this instead? Due to how fast you cooldown, it is more effective to fire 8 shots, and then wait half a second before firing again. Let's say that you cool down fast enough to let you fire off 6 more shots in that time, then after another 0.5 seconds, you can fire 4 more shots (etc. etc. You see the trend with the cooldown. Ideally, you could fire 2 more shots, but this is all theorycrafting. I don't have the data to back this up)

So, we fired 8 (1s), waited 0.5, fired 6 (0.75s) waited 0.5, and fired 4 (0.5s).

Total Shots: 18
Total Time: 3.25s

18 * 71.5 = 1287 damage / 3.25 = 396 Base DPS

Oh look, the 400 range! This is RIGHT around the Kalaakiota RR DPS (397 DPS)

Suddenly, this gun becomes less "Gank" and more "Tactical Shooting". It focuses more on placing shots carefully over time and going for headshots (Which makes it's DPS go THROUGH THE ROOF), rather than trying to quickly drop a target with a light show of spammed lasers.

Thoughts? Comments? I think I was pretty impartial here.

How is that any different from the rail rifle or combat rifle? I could do the same thing straight out of the academy with their militia variants without having to worry about any negative effects. The Scrambler is the light weapon primary that punishes a player for misuse. If you want to nerf the scrambler so bad I'd like to see the other guns also get negatives for incorrect use.

My thoughts are hurry up and make your own topic for this fix! i Support it 100% because it actually fixes the problem not the product.

Pick up a normal ScR on a non-AA suit. It functions as intended, being able to put rounds down range, but not being able to sustain for long due to overheat.
On an AA? Spam City. SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM.
That's not skill, it's easy as hell.

peasant assault bonus does the exact same thing, best get rid of that to eh?

Nerf the living hell out of the ScR. **** all you pussies that use it. **** that cheap ass Bullshit ****** gun.

And while we're talking of cheap Pussies, the player base can also go **** itself.

only OP in the hand of a skilled player. meaning the gun has the highist ceiling to be mastered. i think not many people took the time to learn the art of the scrambler rifle because assault suits used to be bad and when you first pick the weapon up its very hard to use. as players take the time to learn how to master it only then can it become a powerful weapon. and why should we not have a gun that you can take the time to learn and get better with. i cant stand my combat rifle a gun right out of the box thats OP from the very first time you use it. don't nerf skilled based weapons because skilled players will leave then your left with 99% scrubs playing dust. i remember the first time LT Tib shot my face off with a scrambler rifle when i was new and i said dam he is good with that thing then i tryed it and i sucked with it. i respect the OP players that take the time to master something like a ADS or scrambler rifle.

As to your first point, when I first started I used Minmitar suits and Caldari was the FOTM for shield tanking. Then armor got buffed and shields were no longer good in comparison as the TTK rose for Gallente and Amarr. Guess what, I got nerfed as minmitar was shield based back then. I had nothing to do with the Caldari FOTM but it turns out tweaking things can have unintended consequences. The ScR hasn't been changed in ages, but all the other rifles have been nerfed. This in effect has buffed the ScR since its remained untouched. Get it?

As to your second bit, the assault scrambler is viable in its own right. All variants are viable in their own right. The TAR should be on the same level as the ScR or at least slightly lower. There's a massive stat gap between the TAR and the ScR and that's not right.

I realize you have a hard on for the ScR and want your FOTM to remain in tact, like I said everyone goes through this when their weapons/gear are the FOTM. If you need help coping, you can join the tankers support group.

Edit: I am only making my tone a little more harsh because you are getting dismissive. Saying it's silly to think the TAR shouldn't be on par with the ScR is not a real argument. When people start to act like illogical children you have to get strict with them.

The ScR has been OP since they introduced it and you must not have been around very long if you think nobody complained about it being OP. Most people stay away from it because of the overheat but that's only a problem in CQC and only happens when you're outnumbered. Any semi competent person can wreck a team with it if they use it properly. Hell I went 22/0 with the militia version outside of the academy with my vehicle alt which doesn't have any infantry skills at all.

Edit: Oh, that -20% against armor everyone likes to point out as a weakness, is a joke. The ScR still does just as much damage after it's -20% as the RR does to armor with it's +10%.

It's really just the lack of overheat that's the problem. A weapon with that much DPS and range should have more of a drawback than overheat that doesn't come into play until the very end of your clip, if that.

So you're suggestion is to punish players who have skill and learned to master a gun. That's a great way to go about things. Sorry your to good so we have to destroy the thing you've spent months practising with.

So you're suggestion is to punish players who have skill and learned to master a gun. That's a great way to go about things. Sorry your to good so we have to destroy the thing you've spent months practising with.

I don't think learning to tap a button really fast is 'Mastering a Weapon', mastering the scrambler rifle is stopping as close to the overheat as possible, because that's where you get the most DPS from the weapon.

That's something a ROF cap, doesn't take away.
The ROF cap litterally just stops you shooting at such absurd fire rates, so you can't achieve such ridiculous damage.

Say what you will, give whatever arguements you feel like, but please don't tell me that because I can pull a trigger real fast I have mastered a weapon and am free to wreak havoc on my 'lesser skilled enemies'

Eh, i went 43/2 with a Combat Rifle on a character fresh outside of the academy, if by your standards then the CR is allot better...



Sooo you never used one did you ?

The end of the clip is 45 rounds, it overheats at around 18-22 rounds when using the prototype Amarr assault ...

22 out of 45, is the middle, not the end ...

The ScR has been OP since they introduced it and you must not have been around very long if you think nobody complained about it being OP. Most people stay away from it because of the overheat but that's only a problem in CQC and only happens when you're outnumbered. Any semi competent person can wreck a team with it if they use it properly. Hell I went 22/0 with the militia version outside of the academy with my vehicle alt which doesn't have any infantry skills at all.

Edit: Oh, that -20% against armor everyone likes to point out as a weakness, is a joke. The ScR still does just as much damage after it's -20% as the RR does to armor with it's +10%.

^ what he said.

Also, I have been an avid ScR user for almost 8 months, yet ALL of my best game scores have been with the CR. (Most recently 45/2 with RS-90) and I rarely use a Viziam in PC.

The reason for this is simple, the CR is easy as fuk to use versus the ScR for the following reasons:

- The CR does more damage per shoot(burst) without having to worry about overheat.
- You can engage multiple enemies with constant fire without a drawback
- The five second seizure on ScR is twice as long as reloading a CR, and during overheat you are completely vulnerable
- The overheat can kill you. I have suicide many times from ScR overheat
-The CR has the best damage profile, versus the ScR having the worst, especially against the many, many Pro Armor heavies overflowing in PCs these days.
- The CR has amazing hip fire and scope fire, probably the best of all the guns
- For me the CR seems to have better reliabilty with hit detection in laggy PC matches than the Viziam
- You can fire a CR until the clip is empty and THEN switch to a sidearm, meanwhile I constantly have to switch back and forth between my ScR and SMG to prevent overheat. NO other main weapon forces you to have to do this like the ScR does.
- The only true drawback to the CR is it chews through ammo fast. But with the multiple ways to get more ammo this is easily overcome but overheat is NOT easily dealt with.

But for me, as I already stated, the CR is too easy to use. So easy in fact I don't like to use it because it turns pubs into pure slaughterfest boredom. At least with the ScR I have to actually aim properly, manage overheat, avoid multiple targets and have clean sidearm transfers versus the CR EZmode of point and shoot till it's dead.

Give me a golden gun for headshots only then...

when people are talking about skill with the scrambler rifle or mastering the scrambler rifle they aren't really talking about how fast they can spam it before overheat. skilled players understand how to apply the most DPS out of the gun and thats by landing a high % of your shots into the enemies head to be the most effective with there damage output. the difference between when a new play is fighting 2 enemies at once and i am fighting 2 enemies at once is the new player will spam R1 at the first enemiy but probably overheat by the second. when im fighting 2 enemies in my mind its never about how fast i can spam R1 it how fast can i apply all my shots into the enemies head by doing so allows me to have less overheat to kill the 2nd enemy faster. and skilled players understand this and yes it takes a fair amout of skill to land headshots on strafeing targets. this crazy damage some of you people are feeling is a charge shot to your face followed by a fast accurate volley to your face and if done right it will drop you like a bag of hammers and yes this takes skill.

You see now we are getting somewhere, that's mastery!
You don't need a ridiculous ROF for that kind of mastery, that's use the weapons PROS (Charge Shot) to outweigh it's cons.
I have absolutely no quarrel with that, in fact I'd probably congratulate you if I ever saw you in action.

But you still don't need to be capable of firing 11 shots a second, and that leads to abuse. By controllers and 'l33t' players, who have been doing that kinda thing since FPS's were first invented.

so the best answer is to make it as useless as the standard sniper? That thing is a joke most assaults and all heavies just laugh and find cover for a second.... I really don't want its rate of fire nerfed. I want a program installed where if button presses of a single button exceed X it denies your controller from being used until you shut it off and restart the controller. It would stop turbo controllers from even being used. The turbo turds are the issue not the scrambler.

Nerf the living hell out of the ScR. **** all you pussies that use it. **** that cheap ass Bullshit ****** gun.

And while we're talking of cheap Pussies, the player base can also go **** itself.