This could and has been said by everyone who had their FOTM up for review on these forums. I'll say it again, the closest weapon to the scrambler is the Tactical assault rifle. If the ScR is fine where it is then the TAR needs to get its hipfire dispersion, kick, and ROF buffed. It's also ridiculous that the ScR has the same ROF as the assault ScR.

Even with the proposed changes, at least the ones I'm backing, it still has its neiche of being one of two single shot rifles (Not counting the SR) with the unique ability to charge up without any movement penalty for a high alpha shot.

But sure, claim how the ScR is different from the AR, CR, RR, and every other weapon that needed to be toned down because the ScR "Din' do nuffin'!"

But when every other FOTM rose to power it was because of a change that CCP made to it or an unintended glitch that didnt get fixed for ages. With this the only this that changed is the META of the game. The scrambler is the same as it's been for months, just because it has gained popularity does not mean it need a nerf.

And comparing it to the tac AR is silly, for lack of the better word. the scrambler is a designated single shot rifle with multiple drawbacks where as the Tac AR is a variant of a full auto weapon that also grants access to 3 other varients

You've obviously never used the ScR if you think that. RR is full auto and can out range the ScR AND doesnt have to worry about overheat. That -20 also kills any hope of a ranged engagement because it stacks with the range penalty so any attempt to engage past optimum is often met with only 20-40% of damage applied which is pathetic. Heavies are pretty much immune to the gun because not enough damage can be applied before the over heat triggers if you die to scramblers in a heavy your just plain bad.

As to your first point, when I first started I used Minmitar suits and Caldari was the FOTM for shield tanking. Then armor got buffed and shields were no longer good in comparison as the TTK rose for Gallente and Amarr. Guess what, I got nerfed as minmitar was shield based back then. I had nothing to do with the Caldari FOTM but it turns out tweaking things can have unintended consequences. The ScR hasn't been changed in ages, but all the other rifles have been nerfed. This in effect has buffed the ScR since its remained untouched. Get it?

As to your second bit, the assault scrambler is viable in its own right. All variants are viable in their own right. The TAR should be on the same level as the ScR or at least slightly lower. There's a massive stat gap between the TAR and the ScR and that's not right.

I realize you have a hard on for the ScR and want your FOTM to remain in tact, like I said everyone goes through this when their weapons/gear are the FOTM. If you need help coping, you can join the tankers support group.

Eh, ScR out ranges the RR by 40 meters. Still, I just want the ScR to stay how it is. just the range is a little crazy, so you could nerf that I wont complain.

Its hardly flavour of the month for me, I've had a hardon, as you so eloquently put it, for scramblers since their release, every skill pertaining to it is at lvl 5. It more of the FOTY for me. But you're saying that instead of fixing the original problem that broke the system, you'd rather break something else to balance it.

The other rifles got nerfed cause they were in a whole nother league and really they still kind of are. But to say tthat AR variants should be as good as the ScR? your insane. What would be the point of any other rifle when the AR can just surpass them with out the extra SP? No it's main purpose is a Full auto brawler anything else like the TAc and Burst variants should only ever be pale imitations of the true weapons like the Scr and CR respectively.

But honestly I have yet to see one argument that is logical and actually proves that the Scrambler is OP.

It's not that I think that, it's that I know that. Do the math and you'll see the the Adv ScR does around 1 point more damage to armor than the Adv RR and the proto ScR does around .5 more damage to armor than the proto RR. And if you're engaging any weapon within their optimum while they're outside of yours, well that's just idiotic. Like I said, any semi competent person that uses it properly will wreck anything that comes at them, even heavies.

Alpha charge shot + a few blasts, if you think that's the same as a TAR i'm going to call bs on you having used ScR all this time, or you are a bad player.

Personally, I think you're just acting like the old tanker guys that believed tanks were perfectly balanced in 1.7

It's not that I think that, it's that I know that. Do the math and you'll see the the Adv ScR does around 1 point more damage to armor than the Adv RR and the proto ScR does around .5 more damage to armor than the proto RR. And if you're engaging any weapon within their optimum while they're outside of yours, well that's just idiotic. Like I said, any semi competent person that uses it properly will wreck anything that comes at them, even heavies.

So you're suggestion is to punish players who have skill and learned to master a gun. That's a great way to go about things. Sorry your to good so we have to destroy the thing you've spent months practising with.

You wanna talk about guns that take skill to use right?

Go use a Flaylock.

Anyways: The real problem of the ScR isn't in it's stats. The stats aren't bad. It's the Amarr Assault bonus.

Pick up a normal ScR on a non-AA suit. It functions as intended, being able to put rounds down range, but not being able to sustain for long due to overheat.

On an AA? Spam City. SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM.

That's not skill, it's easy as hell.

Now I'm not saying that there are some damn fine ScR users out there. I've seen them. What I'm saying is that the ScR needs to become less of a Spam weapon in the hands of an Amarr Assault.

ONTO MY FIX
What would be better is to give them a cooldown bonus on the suit. I know that the OP skill already has one, but think about it this way. It's a safeguard. Instead of allowing you to fire more shots without worry, it cuts down on the fire intervals.

For example. Lets say that you can fire 16 shots with the ScR at current skills. This is with the 25% reduction. So, after this, lets assume that you can only fire 12 shots before overheating.

12 shots at 71.5 base damage is still a large amount. That's 858 base damage, not including headshots or proficiency. You also fire at 8 shots a second (Assuming unmodded controller here. This is around 500 RPM) ] amounting to 572 DPS.

Okay, but you overheat. 5s seize duration. Since you can't fire any longer, lets assume this time is "Tacked on". You deal 858 damage over 1.5s + 5s overheat. Total? 132 DPS. Now, your instantaneous DPS is much higher, but this makes the gun appeal to the "Spam". Since you can achieve such high DPS for a burst (over range), standard practice is to squeeze off as many shots as you possibly can to drop the target instantly, before the match gets too drawn out to cause overheat. This gives it a VERY low TTK, and gives rise to modded controllers.

But how about this instead? Due to how fast you cooldown, it is more effective to fire 8 shots, and then wait half a second before firing again. Let's say that you cool down fast enough to let you fire off 6 more shots in that time, then after another 0.5 seconds, you can fire 4 more shots (etc. etc. You see the trend with the cooldown. Ideally, you could fire 2 more shots, but this is all theorycrafting. I don't have the data to back this up)

So, we fired 8 (1s), waited 0.5, fired 6 (0.75s) waited 0.5, and fired 4 (0.5s).

Total Shots: 18
Total Time: 3.25s

18 * 71.5 = 1287 damage / 3.25 = 396 Base DPS

Oh look, the 400 range! This is RIGHT around the Kalaakiota RR DPS (397 DPS)

Suddenly, this gun becomes less "Gank" and more "Tactical Shooting". It focuses more on placing shots carefully over time and going for headshots (Which makes it's DPS go THROUGH THE ROOF), rather than trying to quickly drop a target with a light show of spammed lasers.

Thoughts? Comments? I think I was pretty impartial here.

How is that any different from the rail rifle or combat rifle? I could do the same thing straight out of the academy with their militia variants without having to worry about any negative effects. The Scrambler is the light weapon primary that punishes a player for misuse. If you want to nerf the scrambler so bad I'd like to see the other guns also get negatives for incorrect use.

My thoughts are hurry up and make your own topic for this fix! i Support it 100% because it actually fixes the problem not the product.

Pick up a normal ScR on a non-AA suit. It functions as intended, being able to put rounds down range, but not being able to sustain for long due to overheat.
On an AA? Spam City. SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM.
That's not skill, it's easy as hell.

peasant assault bonus does the exact same thing, best get rid of that to eh?

Nerf the living hell out of the ScR. **** all you pussies that use it. **** that cheap ass Bullshit ****** gun.

And while we're talking of cheap Pussies, the player base can also go **** itself.

only OP in the hand of a skilled player. meaning the gun has the highist ceiling to be mastered. i think not many people took the time to learn the art of the scrambler rifle because assault suits used to be bad and when you first pick the weapon up its very hard to use. as players take the time to learn how to master it only then can it become a powerful weapon. and why should we not have a gun that you can take the time to learn and get better with. i cant stand my combat rifle a gun right out of the box thats OP from the very first time you use it. don't nerf skilled based weapons because skilled players will leave then your left with 99% scrubs playing dust. i remember the first time LT Tib shot my face off with a scrambler rifle when i was new and i said dam he is good with that thing then i tryed it and i sucked with it. i respect the OP players that take the time to master something like a ADS or scrambler rifle.

As to your first point, when I first started I used Minmitar suits and Caldari was the FOTM for shield tanking. Then armor got buffed and shields were no longer good in comparison as the TTK rose for Gallente and Amarr. Guess what, I got nerfed as minmitar was shield based back then. I had nothing to do with the Caldari FOTM but it turns out tweaking things can have unintended consequences. The ScR hasn't been changed in ages, but all the other rifles have been nerfed. This in effect has buffed the ScR since its remained untouched. Get it?

As to your second bit, the assault scrambler is viable in its own right. All variants are viable in their own right. The TAR should be on the same level as the ScR or at least slightly lower. There's a massive stat gap between the TAR and the ScR and that's not right.

I realize you have a hard on for the ScR and want your FOTM to remain in tact, like I said everyone goes through this when their weapons/gear are the FOTM. If you need help coping, you can join the tankers support group.

Edit: I am only making my tone a little more harsh because you are getting dismissive. Saying it's silly to think the TAR shouldn't be on par with the ScR is not a real argument. When people start to act like illogical children you have to get strict with them.

The ScR has been OP since they introduced it and you must not have been around very long if you think nobody complained about it being OP. Most people stay away from it because of the overheat but that's only a problem in CQC and only happens when you're outnumbered. Any semi competent person can wreck a team with it if they use it properly. Hell I went 22/0 with the militia version outside of the academy with my vehicle alt which doesn't have any infantry skills at all.

Edit: Oh, that -20% against armor everyone likes to point out as a weakness, is a joke. The ScR still does just as much damage after it's -20% as the RR does to armor with it's +10%.

It's really just the lack of overheat that's the problem. A weapon with that much DPS and range should have more of a drawback than overheat that doesn't come into play until the very end of your clip, if that.

So you're suggestion is to punish players who have skill and learned to master a gun. That's a great way to go about things. Sorry your to good so we have to destroy the thing you've spent months practising with.

So you're suggestion is to punish players who have skill and learned to master a gun. That's a great way to go about things. Sorry your to good so we have to destroy the thing you've spent months practising with.

I don't think learning to tap a button really fast is 'Mastering a Weapon', mastering the scrambler rifle is stopping as close to the overheat as possible, because that's where you get the most DPS from the weapon.

That's something a ROF cap, doesn't take away.
The ROF cap litterally just stops you shooting at such absurd fire rates, so you can't achieve such ridiculous damage.

Say what you will, give whatever arguements you feel like, but please don't tell me that because I can pull a trigger real fast I have mastered a weapon and am free to wreak havoc on my 'lesser skilled enemies'

Eh, i went 43/2 with a Combat Rifle on a character fresh outside of the academy, if by your standards then the CR is allot better...



Sooo you never used one did you ?

The end of the clip is 45 rounds, it overheats at around 18-22 rounds when using the prototype Amarr assault ...

22 out of 45, is the middle, not the end ...

The ScR has been OP since they introduced it and you must not have been around very long if you think nobody complained about it being OP. Most people stay away from it because of the overheat but that's only a problem in CQC and only happens when you're outnumbered. Any semi competent person can wreck a team with it if they use it properly. Hell I went 22/0 with the militia version outside of the academy with my vehicle alt which doesn't have any infantry skills at all.

Edit: Oh, that -20% against armor everyone likes to point out as a weakness, is a joke. The ScR still does just as much damage after it's -20% as the RR does to armor with it's +10%.

^ what he said.

Also, I have been an avid ScR user for almost 8 months, yet ALL of my best game scores have been with the CR. (Most recently 45/2 with RS-90) and I rarely use a Viziam in PC.

The reason for this is simple, the CR is easy as fuk to use versus the ScR for the following reasons:

- The CR does more damage per shoot(burst) without having to worry about overheat.
- You can engage multiple enemies with constant fire without a drawback
- The five second seizure on ScR is twice as long as reloading a CR, and during overheat you are completely vulnerable
- The overheat can kill you. I have suicide many times from ScR overheat
-The CR has the best damage profile, versus the ScR having the worst, especially against the many, many Pro Armor heavies overflowing in PCs these days.
- The CR has amazing hip fire and scope fire, probably the best of all the guns
- For me the CR seems to have better reliabilty with hit detection in laggy PC matches than the Viziam
- You can fire a CR until the clip is empty and THEN switch to a sidearm, meanwhile I constantly have to switch back and forth between my ScR and SMG to prevent overheat. NO other main weapon forces you to have to do this like the ScR does.
- The only true drawback to the CR is it chews through ammo fast. But with the multiple ways to get more ammo this is easily overcome but overheat is NOT easily dealt with.

But for me, as I already stated, the CR is too easy to use. So easy in fact I don't like to use it because it turns pubs into pure slaughterfest boredom. At least with the ScR I have to actually aim properly, manage overheat, avoid multiple targets and have clean sidearm transfers versus the CR EZmode of point and shoot till it's dead.

Give me a golden gun for headshots only then...