DUST Search - CCP before you touch the scrambler just read this

Cassa-Nova wrote:

Ghost Kaisar wrote:

Cassa-Nova wrote:

So you're suggestion is to punish players who have skill and learned to master a gun. That's a great way to go about things. Sorry your to good so we have to destroy the thing you've spent months practising with.

You wanna talk about guns that take skill to use right?

Go use a Flaylock.

Anyways: The real problem of the ScR isn't in it's stats. The stats aren't bad. It's the Amarr Assault bonus.

Pick up a normal ScR on a non-AA suit. It functions as intended, being able to put rounds down range, but not being able to sustain for long due to overheat.

On an AA? Spam City. SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM.

That's not skill, it's easy as hell.

Now I'm not saying that there are some damn fine ScR users out there. I've seen them. What I'm saying is that the ScR needs to become less of a Spam weapon in the hands of an Amarr Assault.

ONTO MY FIX
What would be better is to give them a cooldown bonus on the suit. I know that the OP skill already has one, but think about it this way. It's a safeguard. Instead of allowing you to fire more shots without worry, it cuts down on the fire intervals.

For example. Lets say that you can fire 16 shots with the ScR at current skills. This is with the 25% reduction. So, after this, lets assume that you can only fire 12 shots before overheating.

12 shots at 71.5 base damage is still a large amount. That's 858 base damage, not including headshots or proficiency. You also fire at 8 shots a second (Assuming unmodded controller here. This is around 500 RPM) ] amounting to 572 DPS.

Okay, but you overheat. 5s seize duration. Since you can't fire any longer, lets assume this time is "Tacked on". You deal 858 damage over 1.5s + 5s overheat. Total? 132 DPS. Now, your instantaneous DPS is much higher, but this makes the gun appeal to the "Spam". Since you can achieve such high DPS for a burst (over range), standard practice is to squeeze off as many shots as you possibly can to drop the target instantly, before the match gets too drawn out to cause overheat. This gives it a VERY low TTK, and gives rise to modded controllers.

But how about this instead? Due to how fast you cooldown, it is more effective to fire 8 shots, and then wait half a second before firing again. Let's say that you cool down fast enough to let you fire off 6 more shots in that time, then after another 0.5 seconds, you can fire 4 more shots (etc. etc. You see the trend with the cooldown. Ideally, you could fire 2 more shots, but this is all theorycrafting. I don't have the data to back this up)

So, we fired 8 (1s), waited 0.5, fired 6 (0.75s) waited 0.5, and fired 4 (0.5s).

Total Shots: 18
Total Time: 3.25s

18 * 71.5 = 1287 damage / 3.25 = 396 Base DPS

Oh look, the 400 range! This is RIGHT around the Kalaakiota RR DPS (397 DPS)

Suddenly, this gun becomes less "Gank" and more "Tactical Shooting". It focuses more on placing shots carefully over time and going for headshots (Which makes it's DPS go THROUGH THE ROOF), rather than trying to quickly drop a target with a light show of spammed lasers.

Thoughts? Comments? I think I was pretty impartial here.

My thoughts are hurry up and make your own topic for this fix! i Support it 100% because it actually fixes the problem not the product.


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Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6591	Posted - 2014.08.22 00:23:00 - [1] - Quote Cassa-Nova wrote: So you're suggestion is to punish players who have skill and learned to master a gun. That's a great way to go about things. Sorry your to good so we have to destroy the thing you've spent months practising with. You wanna talk about guns that take skill to use right? Go use a Flaylock. Anyways: The real problem of the ScR isn't in it's stats. The stats aren't bad. It's the Amarr Assault bonus. Pick up a normal ScR on a non-AA suit. It functions as intended, being able to put rounds down range, but not being able to sustain for long due to overheat. On an AA? Spam City. SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM. That's not skill, it's easy as hell. Now I'm not saying that there are some damn fine ScR users out there. I've seen them. What I'm saying is that the ScR needs to become less of a Spam weapon in the hands of an Amarr Assault. ONTO MY FIX What would be better is to give them a cooldown bonus on the suit. I know that the OP skill already has one, but think about it this way. It's a safeguard. Instead of allowing you to fire more shots without worry, it cuts down on the fire intervals. For example. Lets say that you can fire 16 shots with the ScR at current skills. This is with the 25% reduction. So, after this, lets assume that you can only fire 12 shots before overheating. 12 shots at 71.5 base damage is still a large amount. That's 858 base damage, not including headshots or proficiency. You also fire at 8 shots a second (Assuming unmodded controller here. This is around 500 RPM) ] amounting to 572 DPS. Okay, but you overheat. 5s seize duration. Since you can't fire any longer, lets assume this time is "Tacked on". You deal 858 damage over 1.5s + 5s overheat. Total? 132 DPS. Now, your instantaneous DPS is much higher, but this makes the gun appeal to the "Spam". Since you can achieve such high DPS for a burst (over range), standard practice is to squeeze off as many shots as you possibly can to drop the target instantly, before the match gets too drawn out to cause overheat. This gives it a VERY low TTK, and gives rise to modded controllers. But how about this instead? Due to how fast you cooldown, it is more effective to fire 8 shots, and then wait half a second before firing again. Let's say that you cool down fast enough to let you fire off 6 more shots in that time, then after another 0.5 seconds, you can fire 4 more shots (etc. etc. You see the trend with the cooldown. Ideally, you could fire 2 more shots, but this is all theorycrafting. I don't have the data to back this up) So, we fired 8 (1s), waited 0.5, fired 6 (0.75s) waited 0.5, and fired 4 (0.5s). Total Shots: 18 Total Time: 3.25s 18 * 71.5 = 1287 damage / 3.25 = 396 Base DPS Oh look, the 400 range! This is RIGHT around the Kalaakiota RR DPS (397 DPS) Suddenly, this gun becomes less "Gank" and more "Tactical Shooting". It focuses more on placing shots carefully over time and going for headshots (Which makes it's DPS go THROUGH THE ROOF), rather than trying to quickly drop a target with a light show of spammed lasers. Thoughts? Comments? I think I was pretty impartial here. FA's Stabber Extraordinaire Minmatar Enthusiast Explosions and Bulletstorm? Count me in!
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6591	Posted - 2014.08.22 01:00:00 - [2] - Quote Cassa-Nova wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Cassa-Nova wrote: So you're suggestion is to punish players who have skill and learned to master a gun. That's a great way to go about things. Sorry your to good so we have to destroy the thing you've spent months practising with. You wanna talk about guns that take skill to use right? Go use a Flaylock. Anyways: The real problem of the ScR isn't in it's stats. The stats aren't bad. It's the Amarr Assault bonus. Pick up a normal ScR on a non-AA suit. It functions as intended, being able to put rounds down range, but not being able to sustain for long due to overheat. On an AA? Spam City. SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM. That's not skill, it's easy as hell. Now I'm not saying that there are some damn fine ScR users out there. I've seen them. What I'm saying is that the ScR needs to become less of a Spam weapon in the hands of an Amarr Assault. ONTO MY FIX What would be better is to give them a cooldown bonus on the suit. I know that the OP skill already has one, but think about it this way. It's a safeguard. Instead of allowing you to fire more shots without worry, it cuts down on the fire intervals. For example. Lets say that you can fire 16 shots with the ScR at current skills. This is with the 25% reduction. So, after this, lets assume that you can only fire 12 shots before overheating. 12 shots at 71.5 base damage is still a large amount. That's 858 base damage, not including headshots or proficiency. You also fire at 8 shots a second (Assuming unmodded controller here. This is around 500 RPM) ] amounting to 572 DPS. Okay, but you overheat. 5s seize duration. Since you can't fire any longer, lets assume this time is "Tacked on". You deal 858 damage over 1.5s + 5s overheat. Total? 132 DPS. Now, your instantaneous DPS is much higher, but this makes the gun appeal to the "Spam". Since you can achieve such high DPS for a burst (over range), standard practice is to squeeze off as many shots as you possibly can to drop the target instantly, before the match gets too drawn out to cause overheat. This gives it a VERY low TTK, and gives rise to modded controllers. But how about this instead? Due to how fast you cooldown, it is more effective to fire 8 shots, and then wait half a second before firing again. Let's say that you cool down fast enough to let you fire off 6 more shots in that time, then after another 0.5 seconds, you can fire 4 more shots (etc. etc. You see the trend with the cooldown. Ideally, you could fire 2 more shots, but this is all theorycrafting. I don't have the data to back this up) So, we fired 8 (1s), waited 0.5, fired 6 (0.75s) waited 0.5, and fired 4 (0.5s). Total Shots: 18 Total Time: 3.25s 18 * 71.5 = 1287 damage / 3.25 = 396 Base DPS Oh look, the 400 range! This is RIGHT around the Kalaakiota RR DPS (397 DPS) Suddenly, this gun becomes less "Gank" and more "Tactical Shooting". It focuses more on placing shots carefully over time and going for headshots (Which makes it's DPS go THROUGH THE ROOF), rather than trying to quickly drop a target with a light show of spammed lasers. Thoughts? Comments? I think I was pretty impartial here. My thoughts are hurry up and make your own topic for this fix! i Support it 100% because it actually fixes the problem not the product. We don't need any more threads. Try editing it into the OP of this thread. More visibility, and less spam on the threads. Just make sure you give credit FA's Stabber Extraordinaire Minmatar Enthusiast Explosions and Bulletstorm? Count me in!
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6593	Posted - 2014.08.22 03:36:00 - [3] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Pick up a normal ScR on a non-AA suit. It functions as intended, being able to put rounds down range, but not being able to sustain for long due to overheat. On an AA? Spam City. SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM. That's not skill, it's easy as hell. peasant assault bonus does the exact same thing, best get rid of that to eh? ? Are you talking about the Min Assault bonus? Personally, I think the Min Assault has a very similar problem. But that also won't get fixed unless you tweak the CR. I want the CR to deal more damage per burst, but have a set ROF for the Bursts. As in a "Set" amount of bursts you can fire a minute. I want powerful bursts that have more space in between them, like the BR from Halo. Getting a headshot burst with the CR I want will be very strong, and should only take 2-3 to kill. Barring that, I'd take a reload bonus. The reason why the bonus is so good is because the CR chews through ammo like crazy. Since you only deal around 100 damage a burst, most targets take 4-5 bursts to kill (In reality, it's more like /-8 with standard strafing involved) This amounts to around 21-24 bullets wasted a target, which limits engagements to 1-2 targets (54 round clip). Since the CR is lauded as a weapon for "Engaging multiple targets at short-mid range" It makes sense for the clip size bonus. It allows it to engage an extra target without reloading. FA's Stabber Extraordinaire Minmatar Enthusiast Explosions and Bulletstorm? Count me in!