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Complex Shield Rechargers / Enigizers

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Boot Booter Pure Evil. 868	Posted - 2014.08.19 15:46:00 - [1] - Quote I think a small buff for the following shield rechargers and energizers is in order. Complex shield recharger 45% - > 55% It makes no sense to have this recharger less than the enhanced shield energizer. They should be equal so that you trade higher CPU cost for no penalty, just like the basic to enhanced. Complex shield energizer 65% - > 75% The current level of 65% is too low. It's only 10% more than the enhanced energizer, not worth the extra 21 CPU it costs to fit. On my min assault, fitting a complex energizer over the enhanced only provides an extra 3 hp/s shield recharge. Think this could make it to delta? Thanks. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 219	Posted - 2014.08.19 15:51:00 - [2] - Quote You're absolutely right. Not to mention the shield loss on the Energizer between the levels. Screws you over on the shield sentinels and assaults. It does not justify the CPU increase like you said
Boot Booter Pure Evil. 869	Posted - 2014.08.20 00:41:00 - [3] - Quote Bump What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5478	Posted - 2014.08.20 02:25:00 - [4] - Quote Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1000	Posted - 2014.08.20 02:46:00 - [5] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: You're absolutely right. Not to mention the shield loss on the Energizer between the levels. Screws you over on the shield sentinels and assaults. It does not justify the CPU increase like you said Lol assaults,more like logis. Assaults were buffed to insane levels,you have 0 right to QQ in any form. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Freccia di Lybra Maphia Clan Corporation 287	Posted - 2014.08.20 02:46:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction Buff the extenders then! even just a little bit! Shield tanking need some love! Ei fu, xxwhitedevilxx former Co-CEO Maphia Clan Corporation / Unit Unicorn
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 572	Posted - 2014.08.20 03:22:00 - [7] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: I think a small buff for the following shield rechargers and energizers is in order. Complex shield recharger 45% - > 55% It makes no sense to have this recharger less than the enhanced shield energizer. They should be equal so that you trade higher CPU cost for no penalty, just like the basic to enhanced. Complex shield energizer 65% - > 75% The current level of 65% is too low. It's only 10% more than the enhanced energizer, not worth the extra 21 CPU it costs to fit. On my min assault, fitting a complex energizer over the enhanced only provides an extra 3 hp/s shield recharge. Think this could make it to delta? Thanks. im all for improving shield tanking. +1 [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 572	Posted - 2014.08.20 03:23:00 - [8] - Quote Freccia di Lybra wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction Buff the extenders then! even just a little bit! Shield tanking need some love! it does.. the extenders need to scale like 44 66 88 not 33 50 66 its like a huge leap between 33 and 50 but then the 50 to 66 is underwhelming [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 572	Posted - 2014.08.20 03:25:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction that would just be too little.. however i do agree with a cpu reduction on extenders.. if you want shield tank exclusive runners then you need to buff shield hp or extenders.. change 33 - 50 - 66 to 44 - 66 - 88 [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 223	Posted - 2014.08.20 03:33:00 - [10] - Quote Meee One wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: You're absolutely right. Not to mention the shield loss on the Energizer between the levels. Screws you over on the shield sentinels and assaults. It does not justify the CPU increase like you said Lol assaults,more like logis. Assaults were buffed to insane levels,you have 0 right to QQ in any form. I have all Caldari suits proto besides the Commando.. What was your point again? Don't be so quick to jump to conclusions. Seems to me you only read the word Assault. Learn to read and understand the whole story instead of trying to get cheap shots on people.

SAIRAX SIS Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 119	Posted - 2014.08.20 03:54:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction why??? Cal Assault need more few PG... yoroshiku ne !pÇÇpÇÇCute Cat NyaoooonpÇÇGÖ¬
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1192	Posted - 2014.08.20 04:54:00 - [12] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: I think a small buff for the following shield rechargers and energizers is in order. Complex shield recharger 45% - > 55% It makes no sense to have this recharger less than the enhanced shield energizer. They should be equal so that you trade higher CPU cost for no penalty, just like the basic to enhanced. Complex shield energizer 65% - > 75% The current level of 65% is too low. It's only 10% more than the enhanced energizer, not worth the extra 21 CPU it costs to fit. On my min assault, fitting a complex energizer over the enhanced only provides an extra 3 hp/s shield recharge. Think this could make it to delta? Thanks. You're Insane. CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction Please no, these modules are already on the border of being too good. Alldin Kan has joined the battle!

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5494	Posted - 2014.08.20 05:42:00 - [13] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Boot Booter wrote: I think a small buff for the following shield rechargers and energizers is in order. Complex shield recharger 45% - > 55% It makes no sense to have this recharger less than the enhanced shield energizer. They should be equal so that you trade higher CPU cost for no penalty, just like the basic to enhanced. Complex shield energizer 65% - > 75% The current level of 65% is too low. It's only 10% more than the enhanced energizer, not worth the extra 21 CPU it costs to fit. On my min assault, fitting a complex energizer over the enhanced only provides an extra 3 hp/s shield recharge. Think this could make it to delta? Thanks. You're Insane. CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction Please no, these modules are already on the border of being too good. Alldin, can you expand a little on that? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 114	Posted - 2014.08.20 06:10:00 - [14] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Freccia di Lybra wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction Buff the extenders then! even just a little bit! Shield tanking need some love! it does.. the extenders need to scale like 44 66 88 not 33 50 66 its like a huge leap between 33 and 50 but then the 50 to 66 is underwhelming They increase at just about the same ratio as Armor plates now. I don't see an issue here, especially when I've seen more than a couple of 600+ SHP Calassaults last weekend. That is insane. Something like 42/54/66 would be acceptable, as that would put them at the same exact ratio as armor plates.
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1192	Posted - 2014.08.20 06:56:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: Boot Booter wrote: I think a small buff for the following shield rechargers and energizers is in order. Complex shield recharger 45% - > 55% It makes no sense to have this recharger less than the enhanced shield energizer. They should be equal so that you trade higher CPU cost for no penalty, just like the basic to enhanced. Complex shield energizer 65% - > 75% The current level of 65% is too low. It's only 10% more than the enhanced energizer, not worth the extra 21 CPU it costs to fit. On my min assault, fitting a complex energizer over the enhanced only provides an extra 3 hp/s shield recharge. Think this could make it to delta? Thanks. You're Insane. CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction Please no, these modules are already on the border of being too good. Alldin, can you expand a little on that? On my Cal Assault I have: 1x dmg mod 1x Enhanced energizer 1x complex extender 2x enhanced extender 353 Armor with 4.80 m/s 1x Complex shield regulator 1x allotek nanohive (R) PRO combat Rifle PRO Scrambler pistol a flux grenade I get 510+ Shields with decent dps and a Shield recharge rate of nearly 50 with a delay of almost 3.0 seconds. Buffing the module even further is unecessary with the shield regen on Caldari already being double that of the average Armor rep Suit. Alldin Kan has joined the battle!
jace silencerww Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 30	Posted - 2014.08.20 07:14:00 - [16] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: Boot Booter wrote: I think a small buff for the following shield rechargers and energizers is in order. Complex shield recharger 45% - > 55% It makes no sense to have this recharger less than the enhanced shield energizer. They should be equal so that you trade higher CPU cost for no penalty, just like the basic to enhanced. Complex shield energizer 65% - > 75% The current level of 65% is too low. It's only 10% more than the enhanced energizer, not worth the extra 21 CPU it costs to fit. On my min assault, fitting a complex energizer over the enhanced only provides an extra 3 hp/s shield recharge. Think this could make it to delta? Thanks. You're Insane. CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction Please no, these modules are already on the border of being too good. Alldin, can you expand a little on that? On my Cal Assault I have: 1x dmg mod 1x Enhanced energizer 1x complex shield extender 2x enhanced shield extender 353 Armor with 4.80 m/s 1x Complex shield regulator 1x allotek nanohive (R) PRO combat Rifle PRO Scrambler pistol a flux grenade I get 510+ Shields with decent dps and a Shield recharge rate of nearly 50 with a delay of almost 3.0 seconds. Buffing the module even further is unecessary with the shield regen on Caldari already being double that of the average Armor rep Suit. remember not everyone like you have tons of sp to put into the fitting oper (1.8 million) to lower their pg for they weapons. remembe3r balance for all not the elite
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4610	Posted - 2014.08.20 08:21:00 - [17] - Quote Energizers and Rechargers need to be completely different modules...not just modules that do the same thing, but one being 100x better (energizers cost less cpu for a much greater effect) The reason why these modules are so similar is because the penalty is too low. Simple as that. But it's not so simple as just increasing the penalty. As it is now, using energizers on a Caldari Heavy is actually a pretty steep sacrifice...but you could have a 20% shield penalty and scouts would still sacrifice barely anything for insane regen. _____________________________________________________ My idea? Make rechargers like armor repairers. Instead of giving a percentage, they increase shield recharge by a set amount...like 15, 20, 25 However, the downside here is that this makes it easier for an armor tanker to have high shield regen without sacrificing anything. Instead, the shield penalty should be a fixed value on energizers. This penalty could be as high as 30-50 shields as a sentinel wouldn't have much of an issue with that...but try using them on a scout or an assault and it now becomes MUCH better to use rechargers. idk, no matter what we do, someone's going to be unhappy it seems like, and the best action is to take no action :/ 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1193	Posted - 2014.08.20 08:24:00 - [18] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: remember not everyone like you have tons of sp to put into the fitting oper (1.8 million) to lower their pg for they weapons. remembe3r balance for all not the elite I'm at lv 4 for cpu/pg reduction, I could've simply downgraded a plate or the weapon to fit it if I had less sp. Shield modules were alright prior to the buff, giving another would be excessive. The STD/ADV recharger would then require tweaks to not get far from PRO amount and the 75% energizer would be overkill (65% is already huge, ADV energizer was ok at 45% and did not need buff) Alldin Kan has joined the battle!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2241	Posted - 2014.08.20 11:58:00 - [19] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: jace silencerww wrote: remember not everyone like you have tons of sp to put into the fitting oper (1.8 million) to lower their pg for they weapons. remembe3r balance for all not the elite I'm at lv 4 for cpu/pg reduction, I could've simply downgraded a plate or the weapon to fit it if I had less sp. Shield modules were alright prior to the buff, giving another would be excessive. The STD/ADV recharger would then require tweaks to not get far from PRO amount and the 75% energizer would be overkill (65% is already huge, ADV energizer was ok at 45% and did not need buff) Lets not forget the skill adds that shield regeneration adds to both modules. I believe each gets 25% boost to their +45%/+65% to the modules. At proto level that brings them to +56%/+81% to regen just eyeballing the numbers and rounding down.
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1194	Posted - 2014.08.20 12:22:00 - [20] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: jace silencerww wrote: remember not everyone like you have tons of sp to put into the fitting oper (1.8 million) to lower their pg for they weapons. remembe3r balance for all not the elite I'm at lv 4 for cpu/pg reduction, I could've simply downgraded a plate or the weapon to fit it if I had less sp. Shield modules were alright prior to the buff, giving another would be excessive. The STD/ADV recharger would then require tweaks to not get far from PRO amount and the 75% energizer would be overkill (65% is already huge, ADV energizer was ok at 45% and did not need buff) Lets not forget the skill adds that shield regeneration adds to both modules. I believe each gets 25% boost to their +45%/+65% to the modules. At proto level that brings them to +56%/+81% to regen just eyeballing the numbers and rounding down. 10% max buddy Alldin Kan has joined the battle!

Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 224	Posted - 2014.08.20 12:40:00 - [21] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: jace silencerww wrote: remember not everyone like you have tons of sp to put into the fitting oper (1.8 million) to lower their pg for they weapons. remembe3r balance for all not the elite I'm at lv 4 for cpu/pg reduction, I could've simply downgraded a plate or the weapon to fit it if I had less sp. Shield modules were alright prior to the buff, giving another would be excessive. The STD/ADV recharger would then require tweaks to not get far from PRO amount and the 75% energizer would be overkill (65% is already huge, ADV energizer was ok at 45% and did not need buff) Lets not forget the skill adds that shield regeneration adds to both modules. I believe each gets 25% boost to their +45%/+65% to the modules. At proto level that brings them to +56%/+81% to regen just eyeballing the numbers and rounding down. Lol, yeah right.. Check the skills again buddy
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Top Men. 76	Posted - 2014.08.20 12:50:00 - [22] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: I think a small buff for the following shield rechargers and energizers is in order. Complex shield recharger 45% - > 55% It makes no sense to have this recharger less than the enhanced shield energizer. They should be equal so that you trade higher CPU cost for no penalty, just like the basic to enhanced. Complex shield energizer 65% - > 75% The current level of 65% is too low. It's only 10% more than the enhanced energizer, not worth the extra 21 CPU it costs to fit. On my min assault, fitting a complex energizer over the enhanced only provides an extra 3 hp/s shield recharge. Think this could make it to delta? Thanks. CCP has a long standing for Dust of standard versus enhanced item differences being greater than enhanced versus prototype differences. Honestly I'm okay with this since it means that you spend larger amounts of isk and CPU/PG for that extra performance. Also, since the prototypes are the greatest that you can get, they take full advantage of the bonuses that come with the skills required to use those modules. There is a tradeoff between Energizers and rechargers. Simply put, the energizers sacrifice some shields to get that extra boost to shield recharge rate. Shield rechargers do not, and as such I don't think they should go past 50%. Plus, you can't forget the bonuses that come with it (an extra 10% for complex I think). In order for the Shield energizers to be pushed up to 75% they would need to increase the penalty by about 2% meaning that you would lose 8% total shields per module. The increase in penalty would equal out the benefits so that technically you wouldn't get just an immediate boost in "power/strength." 3 of these "proposed" modules together would decrease total shields by almost 1/4th. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2929	Posted - 2014.08.20 13:02:00 - [23] - Quote BrotherofHavok wrote: Boot Booter wrote: I think a small buff for the following shield rechargers and energizers is in order. Complex shield recharger 45% - > 55% It makes no sense to have this recharger less than the enhanced shield energizer. They should be equal so that you trade higher CPU cost for no penalty, just like the basic to enhanced. Complex shield energizer 65% - > 75% The current level of 65% is too low. It's only 10% more than the enhanced energizer, not worth the extra 21 CPU it costs to fit. On my min assault, fitting a complex energizer over the enhanced only provides an extra 3 hp/s shield recharge. Think this could make it to delta? Thanks. CCP has a long standing for Dust of standard versus enhanced item differences being greater than enhanced versus prototype differences. Honestly I'm okay with this since it means that you spend larger amounts of isk and CPU/PG for that extra performance. Also, since the prototypes are the greatest that you can get, they take full advantage of the bonuses that come with the skills required to use those modules. There is a tradeoff between Energizers and rechargers. Simply put, the energizers sacrifice some shields to get that extra boost to shield recharge rate. Shield rechargers do not, and as such I don't think they should go past 50%. Plus, you can't forget the bonuses that come with it (an extra 10% for complex I think). In order for the Shield energizers to be pushed up to 75% they would need to increase the penalty by about 2% meaning that you would lose 8% total shields per module. The increase in penalty would equal out the benefits so that technically you wouldn't get just an immediate boost in "power/strength." 3 of these "proposed" modules together would decrease total shields by almost 1/4th. Shields loss is on base shields not total. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
BrotherofHavok PIanet Express Top Men. 76	Posted - 2014.08.20 13:09:00 - [24] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: BrotherofHavok wrote: Boot Booter wrote: I think a small buff for the following shield rechargers and energizers is in order. Complex shield recharger 45% - > 55% It makes no sense to have this recharger less than the enhanced shield energizer. They should be equal so that you trade higher CPU cost for no penalty, just like the basic to enhanced. Complex shield energizer 65% - > 75% The current level of 65% is too low. It's only 10% more than the enhanced energizer, not worth the extra 21 CPU it costs to fit. On my min assault, fitting a complex energizer over the enhanced only provides an extra 3 hp/s shield recharge. Think this could make it to delta? Thanks. CCP has a long standing for Dust of standard versus enhanced item differences being greater than enhanced versus prototype differences. Honestly I'm okay with this since it means that you spend larger amounts of isk and CPU/PG for that extra performance. Also, since the prototypes are the greatest that you can get, they take full advantage of the bonuses that come with the skills required to use those modules. There is a tradeoff between Energizers and rechargers. Simply put, the energizers sacrifice some shields to get that extra boost to shield recharge rate. Shield rechargers do not, and as such I don't think they should go past 50%. Plus, you can't forget the bonuses that come with it (an extra 10% for complex I think). In order for the Shield energizers to be pushed up to 75% they would need to increase the penalty by about 2% meaning that you would lose 8% total shields per module. The increase in penalty would equal out the benefits so that technically you wouldn't get just an immediate boost in "power/strength." 3 of these "proposed" modules together would decrease total shields by almost 1/4th. Shields loss is on base shields not total. If this is true then I didn't know that. However, it can still be quite significant if you consider 3 high slots being taken up by shield energizers. Personally, my heavy Cal generally runs either 3 rechargers or 2 energizers so I can say that you can lose a couple hundred points of shields. Sincerely, Your Multi-purpose Everything User
Boot Booter Pure Evil. 874	Posted - 2014.08.20 21:16:00 - [25] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: Boot Booter wrote: I think a small buff for the following shield rechargers and energizers is in order. Complex shield recharger 45% - > 55% It makes no sense to have this recharger less than the enhanced shield energizer. They should be equal so that you trade higher CPU cost for no penalty, just like the basic to enhanced. Complex shield energizer 65% - > 75% The current level of 65% is too low. It's only 10% more than the enhanced energizer, not worth the extra 21 CPU it costs to fit. On my min assault, fitting a complex energizer over the enhanced only provides an extra 3 hp/s shield recharge. Think this could make it to delta? Thanks. You're Insane. CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction Please no, these modules are already on the border of being too good. Alldin, can you expand a little on that? On my Cal Assault I have: 1x dmg mod 1x Enhanced energizer 1x complex shield extender 2x enhanced shield extender 353 Armor with 4.80 m/s 1x Complex shield regulator 1x allotek nanohive (R) PRO combat Rifle PRO Scrambler pistol a flux grenade I get 510+ Shields with decent dps and a Shield recharge rate of nearly 50 with a delay of almost 3.0 seconds. Buffing the module even further is unecessary with the shield regen on Caldari already being double that of the average Armor rep Suit. OK I may be insane but you just precisely proved my point, nobody uses complex energizers or rechargers. Rattati I'm sure you've seen data to confirm this. Oh and it's not like anyone has been saying shields are OP lol. I still believe a buff like I suggested makes more sense. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3263	Posted - 2014.08.21 03:17:00 - [26] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: On my Cal Assault I have: 1x dmg mod 1x Enhanced energizer 1x complex shield extender 2x enhanced shield extender 353 Armor with 4.80 m/s 1x Complex shield regulator 1x allotek nanohive (R) PRO combat Rifle PRO Scrambler pistol a flux grenade I get 510+ Shields with decent dps and a Shield recharge rate of nearly 50 with a delay of almost 3.0 seconds. Buffing the module even further is unecessary with the shield regen on Caldari already being double that of the average Armor rep Suit. I think this is more of a symptom of the Cal assault than it is the modules you use. The Caldari have the highest base shields, the highest base shield recharge, and the lowest base shield recharge delay. Of course your shield fits are amazing. How I see it, they should have the best shields (slightly more than they have now, even), the second best recharge, and the second best shield recharge delay. The Minmatar, being hit and run, make the most sense as being high regen, low downtime. SP Sinks? Fixed.
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 573	Posted - 2014.08.21 03:20:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction More Minny issues incoming then. "Shine bright like a diamond"
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1195	Posted - 2014.08.21 04:11:00 - [28] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: How I see it, they should have the best shields (slightly more than they have now, even), the second best recharge, and the second best shield recharge delay. The Minmatar, being hit and run, make the most sense as being high regen, low downtime. I already brought this up before, some went on to object to the idea. Alldin Kan has joined the battle!
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7332	Posted - 2014.08.21 04:14:00 - [29] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Logi Bro wrote: How I see it, they should have the best shields (slightly more than they have now, even), the second best recharge, and the second best shield recharge delay. The Minmatar, being hit and run, make the most sense as being high regen, low downtime. I already brought this up before, some went on to object to the idea. Same as well. It always bothered me that Caldari didn't have more shields and that they were the ones with the best regen. and I always like to point to my scapegoat, CCP Shanghai, for this obvious error. Lucent Echelon -The Brightest Ranks Gallente Faction Warfare Chanel
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1195	Posted - 2014.08.21 04:29:00 - [30] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: OK I may be insane but you just precisely proved my point, nobody uses complex energizers or rechargers. Rattati I'm sure you've seen data to confirm this. Oh and it's not like anyone has been saying shields are OP lol. I still believe a buff like I suggested makes more sense. Rechargers are a must for Caldari/Minmatar Sentinels and its stats do not require tweaking. ADV Energizer got an unnecessary buff, to give the PRO variant a higher value would be excessive so it's best to just change the value on ADV to %50 and leave the PRO module untouched. Alldin Kan has joined the battle!

shady merc RisingSuns Dark Taboo 50	Posted - 2014.08.21 05:21:00 - [31] - Quote You could argue about alot of things that are wrong with Shield but this is not one of them. Things that would help shield users Make Kin Cats easier to fit, This would help increase the difference in mobility between armor and shields Give armor suit more built in HP but reduce the difference between armor plate and shield extenders effectiveness Change the SCR. The scramble rifle is one of the biggest issue with the shield vs armor metagame. Change map design which would help alleviate balancing issue for shield,armor, heavys, sniper rifles,etc (client side update I know it won't happen) The Scrambler Rifle causes this due to the fact that it does more damage in one shot then a complex shield extender offers. Combined with the fact that its a rifle and not some situation weapon( like the MD or laser rifle) and its will always be safer to fit armor then shields. This issue is made worse by the fact that all weapons that do well against armor have no issues against shield due to their lower hitpoints. So any time shields get a buff or become popular more scrambler rifle will show up to the battlefield. While this a good thing the same thing doesn't happen to armor, because everything that can make quick work of your armor suit will also make quick work of your shield suit.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2279	Posted - 2014.08.21 06:04:00 - [32] - Quote We were both wrong. 15% from skillz.
Boot Booter Pure Evil. 876	Posted - 2014.08.21 16:11:00 - [33] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Boot Booter wrote: OK I may be insane but you just precisely proved my point, nobody uses complex energizers or rechargers. Rattati I'm sure you've seen data to confirm this. Oh and it's not like anyone has been saying shields are OP lol. I still believe a buff like I suggested makes more sense. Rechargers are a must for Caldari/Minmatar Sentinels and its stats do not require tweaking. ADV Energizer got an unnecessary buff, to give the PRO variant a higher value would be excessive so it's best to just change the value on ADV to %50 and leave the PRO module untouched. Fine so you admit that complex shield energizers, supposedly the most powerful shield recharge module in the game, are worthless. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4330	Posted - 2014.08.21 17:04:00 - [34] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction More Minny issues incoming then. Please don't let this go unnoticed. Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet PSN: wbrom42
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 17	Posted - 2014.08.21 17:20:00 - [35] - Quote Does Shield Recharge Delay still take over from Shield Depleted Rechage Delay if you continue to take damage after shield is depleted, and into armor? This plays a part in it.
Boot Booter Pure Evil. 876	Posted - 2014.08.21 17:49:00 - [36] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Does Shield Recharge Delay still take over from Shield Depleted Rechage Delay if you continue to take damage after shield is depleted, and into armor? This plays a part in it. Yes. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Cruor Abominare Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 134	Posted - 2014.08.22 02:49:00 - [37] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Freccia di Lybra wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction Buff the extenders then! even just a little bit! Shield tanking need some love! it does.. the extenders need to scale like 44 66 88 not 33 50 66 its like a huge leap between 33 and 50 but then the 50 to 66 is underwhelming 17 is a massive jump but 16 is underwhelming? I uh, yea.
Sgt Kirk Lucent Echelon 7342	Posted - 2014.08.22 03:17:00 - [38] - Quote Cruor Abominare wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Freccia di Lybra wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction Buff the extenders then! even just a little bit! Shield tanking need some love! it does.. the extenders need to scale like 44 66 88 not 33 50 66 its like a huge leap between 33 and 50 but then the 50 to 66 is underwhelming 17 is a massive jump but 16 is underwhelming? I uh, yea. You should know that DUST players are highly illogical. Lucent Echelon -The Brightest Ranks Gallente Faction Warfare Chanel
Atiim 11562	Posted - 2014.08.22 03:35:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: And maybe some tiny PG introduction Please Don't. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1109	Posted - 2014.08.22 04:52:00 - [40] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: remember not everyone like you have tons of sp to put into the fitting oper (1.8 million) to lower their pg for they weapons. remembe3r balance for all not the elite Jace , your asking for too much ... this is how Rattati and the think tank at CCP , have been balancing this game by listening to players like such ... you know , those with 50 or more million skill points ... the one's who dominate the forum and put up numbers and stats to back up their argument . They know better than you or I , you know ... those who represent the majority , those under 30 million . It's been " working " so far so why deviate from it now ? You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1109	Posted - 2014.08.22 04:58:00 - [41] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Energizers and Rechargers need to be completely different modules...not just modules that do the same thing, but one being 100x better (energizers cost less cpu for a much greater effect) The reason why these modules are so similar is because the penalty is too low. Simple as that. But it's not so simple as just increasing the penalty. As it is now, using energizers on a Caldari Heavy is actually a pretty steep sacrifice...but you could have a 20% shield penalty and scouts would still sacrifice barely anything for insane regen. _____________________________________________________ My idea? Make rechargers like armor repairers. Instead of giving a percentage, they increase shield recharge by a set amount...like 15, 20, 25 However, the downside here is that this makes it easier for an armor tanker to have high shield regen without sacrificing anything. Instead, the shield penalty should be a fixed value on energizers. This penalty could be as high as 30-50 shields as a sentinel wouldn't have much of an issue with that...but try using them on a scout or an assault and it now becomes MUCH better to use rechargers. idk, no matter what we do, someone's going to be unhappy it seems like, and the best action is to take no action :/ ^^^ It's a start , nice work . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5592	Posted - 2014.08.22 07:44:00 - [42] - Quote First of all, so I was only talking about Regulators and Energizers and it seems everyone got upset about Rechargers. Second, Alldin, I went and looked at some data and I don't think shield dropsuits are above average currently. I however noticed that the Caldari Commando is quite, quite good comparatively. I wonder if there is some uber fit combination with shield delay making it a tad OP. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 345	Posted - 2014.08.22 07:54:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: First of all, so I was only talking about Regulators and Energizers and it seems everyone got upset about Rechargers. Second, Alldin, I went and looked at some data and I don't think shield dropsuits are above average currently. I however noticed that the Caldari Commando is quite, quite good comparatively. I wonder if there is some uber fit combination with shield delay making it a tad OP. that's interesting to know, only ever use it for sniping in one fashion or another really, may have to revise some of my fit outs any opinion on the calsent? it seems like it's just not worth using regulators vs armour reps, plates or reactives Also seems like it's not worth losing the hp to use energizers, maybe if extenders were better or energizers were less cpu/pg... Which is even more evident if your squaded with a logibro. that said it doesn't seem like a weak suit until you come across some of the other heavies with a logi bro. of course if they are more for assaults and scouts i guess it doesn't matter..
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2287	Posted - 2014.08.22 10:31:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: First of all, so I was only talking about Regulators and Energizers and it seems everyone got upset about Rechargers. Second, Alldin, I went and looked at some data and I don't think shield dropsuits are above average currently. I however noticed that the Caldari Commando is quite, quite good comparatively. I wonder if there is some uber fit combination with shield delay making it a tad OP. I run Calmando at the standard level. what level of calmando is this trend popping up to, and what trends are you looking for? Will skill up Calmando to test this question.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2934	Posted - 2014.08.22 10:36:00 - [45] - Quote I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2287	Posted - 2014.08.22 10:37:00 - [46] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. I haven't actually been having issues with using shields except for fitting them on a Caldari sentinel. They eat a boat-ton of CPU. Caldari Sentinel or Shield-Heavy MinSent with a Burst HMG is a goddamn BEAST that recovers rapidly.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2934	Posted - 2014.08.22 10:39:00 - [47] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. I haven't actually been having issues with using shields except for fitting them on a sentinel. They eat a boat-ton of CPU. Caldari Sentinel or Shield-Heavy MinSent with a Burst HMG is a goddamn BEAST that recovers rapidly. If I fit a dual tank I can fit whatever I want but when I use a repair fit on a shield suit my cpu caps really fast. Only way I can fit a side arm or a grenade is if I use a state rail rifle. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2287	Posted - 2014.08.22 10:40:00 - [48] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. I haven't actually been having issues with using shields except for fitting them on a sentinel. They eat a boat-ton of CPU. Caldari Sentinel or Shield-Heavy MinSent with a Burst HMG is a goddamn BEAST that recovers rapidly. If I fit a dual tank I can fit whatever I want but when I use a repair fit on a shield suit my cpu caps really fast. Only way I can fit a side arm or a grenade is if I use a state rail rifle. I have noticed that it's a LOT easier to fit complex reps or a reactive plate than it is to fit a regulator. Caldari resourced are tight.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5593	Posted - 2014.08.22 11:34:00 - [49] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. Regulators and Energizers, not Rechargers and Extenders... "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5593	Posted - 2014.08.22 11:36:00 - [50] - Quote Commando "mystery" solved, redline sniper fit "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1014	Posted - 2014.08.22 12:14:00 - [51] - Quote I'm dying of not surprise. Dust/Eve transfers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1014	Posted - 2014.08.22 12:16:00 - [52] - Quote I like Shayz' suggestion that rechargers vs energisers could be differentiated by a flat rate vs percentage increase, with light frames favouring one, heavies favouring the other, and medium frames having a tough choice between them. Dust/Eve transfers
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2291	Posted - 2014.08.22 12:41:00 - [53] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Commando "mystery" solved, redline sniper fit Still worth driving a jeep deep into the redline to remove a thale from the game permanently.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2935	Posted - 2014.08.22 13:50:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. Regulators and Energizers, not Rechargers and Extenders... I said recharging modules to encompass all forms including regulators. And when I mean extenders look through this thread and other threads where people jeep constantly asking for extenders buffs so they can properly fit repair supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5598	Posted - 2014.08.22 14:28:00 - [55] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. Regulators and Energizers, not Rechargers and Extenders... I said recharging modules to encompass all forms including regulators. And when I mean extenders look through this thread and other threads where people jeep constantly asking for extenders buffs so they can properly fit repair We are not changing Extenders "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 514	Posted - 2014.08.22 18:07:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. Regulators and Energizers, not Rechargers and Extenders... first of all... i cannot for the life of me understand why in eve online, damage mods are low slots items and speed mods are basically mid slot items, but then in dust we flip it around. the whole point was for having low hp shield tanking units having high dps to balance out the high hp of armor tanking units. armor tanking units got speed mods to help them get into range range faster so they crush the shield tankers with overwhelming hp why have we given high hp armor units, high dps as well? this is why armor tanking is so popular. you get hp and damage with zero trade off adjusting shields mods doesnt change this
idlerowl Old-Type 9	Posted - 2014.08.22 18:21:00 - [57] - Quote CPU reduction is good. And about a number of Energizer. When I make Assault ck.0 an example,(All Skill MAX) < Shield Recharge Rate > basic [42.08] HP/s ADV [48.98] HP/s PRO [52.43] HP/s The differences between ADV and PRO are 3.5 for 6.9 differences between basic and ADV. I would like the numerical rise of proto. (around 10%) About Regulator, I intend to do post later. (I am sorry in poor English , and poor explain)
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3221	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:23:00 - [58] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: first of all... i cannot for the life of me understand why in eve online, damage mods are low slots items and speed mods are basically mid slot items, but then in dust we flip it around. the whole point was for having low hp shield tanking units having high dps to balance out the high hp of armor tanking units. armor tanking units got speed mods to help them get into range range faster so they crush the shield tankers with overwhelming hp why have we given high hp armor units, high dps as well? this is why armor tanking is so popular. you get hp and damage with zero trade off adjusting shields mods doesnt change this Agreed, flipping kin cats and damage mods would be a good first step in this. My other point of feedback... is it balanced that shield mods are essentially required to use low slots (regulator) as well as high slots(extender/recharger) to round out their primary form of tanking while armor is free to fit damage mods without any sacrifice in tanking potential? About all EVE online has for shield tanking in the lows is power diagnostic systems afaik... someone correct me if I'm wrong there. In this case... my feedback would be to move shield regulation to the high slots, and buff them slightly. Change rechargers to also decrease shield delay, and remove the penalty on shield extenders. Remove the skill for Shield Regulation, and wrap shield regulators into Shield Recharging skill. Or change the skill on Shield Regulation to lower the shield penalty delay. Adding in a Armor Layering skill which does the same for move speed. B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich
aaaasdff ertgfdd 232	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:41:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction Jesus christ leave them alone please, we have not enough pg as it is, they are fine please just leave them alone. Fix terrain glitches, grenade hit detection, anything but these. Damn fix the problems that have been here since DAY1..... INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
aaaasdff ertgfdd 232	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:47:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: First of all, so I was only talking about Regulators and Energizers and it seems everyone got upset about Rechargers. Second, Alldin, I went and looked at some data and I don't think shield dropsuits are above average currently. I however noticed that the Caldari Commando is quite, quite good comparatively. I wonder if there is some uber fit combination with shield delay making it a tad OP. Lolz, you calling out Alldins sniper fit? INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3902	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:50:00 - [61] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: first of all... i cannot for the life of me understand why in eve online, damage mods are low slots items and speed mods are basically mid slot items, but then in dust we flip it around. the whole point was for having low hp shield tanking units having high dps to balance out the high hp of armor tanking units. armor tanking units got speed mods to help them get into range range faster so they crush the shield tankers with overwhelming hp why have we given high hp armor units, high dps as well? this is why armor tanking is so popular. you get hp and damage with zero trade off adjusting shields mods doesnt change this Agreed, flipping kin cats and damage mods would be a good first step in this. My other point of feedback... is it balanced that shield mods are essentially required to use low slots (regulator) as well as high slots(extender/recharger) to round out their primary form of tanking while armor is free to fit damage mods without any sacrifice in tanking potential? About all EVE online has for shield tanking in the lows is power diagnostic systems afaik... someone correct me if I'm wrong there. In this case... my feedback would be to move shield regulation to the high slots, and buff them slightly. Change rechargers to also decrease shield delay, and remove the penalty on shield extenders. Remove the skill for Shield Regulation, and wrap shield regulators into Shield Recharging skill. Or change the skill on Shield Regulation to lower the shield penalty delay. Adding in a Armor Layering skill which does the same for move speed. But Armor tankers have to choose between regen and pure HP, shield tankers technically do not. And in a game where HP is usually king, being able to stack the (still) nerfed damage mods is not a universally superior fit. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1200	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:53:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: First of all, so I was only talking about Regulators and Energizers and it seems everyone got upset about Rechargers. Second, Alldin, I went and looked at some data and I don't think shield dropsuits are above average currently. I however noticed that the Caldari Commando is quite, quite good comparatively. I wonder if there is some uber fit combination with shield delay making it a tad OP. So far, I would only see this happening if energizers get a buff and are used together with regulators. Of course, this would be irrelevant when facing a Heavy or Scout+Shotty up close with little cover. Regarding the Commando fit, it looks normal: a Complex regulator a Enhanced Shield Extender a Complex Damage mod PRO Specialist Rail Rifle ADV Assault Scrambler Rifle Allotek Nanohive (R) Around 360 CPU is taken and PG is around 58. Unfortunately, Assaults surpass Commando in mobility, recovery, and the dps is now close due to recent damage mod buff. Racial skill may be needed to be raised to 3% damage per level or have the H/L slot layout mimic Sentinels. Alldin Kan has joined the battle!
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3221	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:53:00 - [63] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: first of all... i cannot for the life of me understand why in eve online, damage mods are low slots items and speed mods are basically mid slot items, but then in dust we flip it around. the whole point was for having low hp shield tanking units having high dps to balance out the high hp of armor tanking units. armor tanking units got speed mods to help them get into range range faster so they crush the shield tankers with overwhelming hp why have we given high hp armor units, high dps as well? this is why armor tanking is so popular. you get hp and damage with zero trade off adjusting shields mods doesnt change this Agreed, flipping kin cats and damage mods would be a good first step in this. My other point of feedback... is it balanced that shield mods are essentially required to use low slots (regulator) as well as high slots(extender/recharger) to round out their primary form of tanking while armor is free to fit damage mods without any sacrifice in tanking potential? About all EVE online has for shield tanking in the lows is power diagnostic systems afaik... someone correct me if I'm wrong there. In this case... my feedback would be to move shield regulation to the high slots, and buff them slightly. Change rechargers to also decrease shield delay, and remove the penalty on shield extenders. Remove the skill for Shield Regulation, and wrap shield regulators into Shield Recharging skill. Or change the skill on Shield Regulation to lower the shield penalty delay. Adding in a Armor Layering skill which does the same for move speed. But Armor tankers have to choose between regen and pure HP, shield tankers technically do not. And in a game where HP is usually king, being able to stack the (still) nerfed damage mods is not a universally superior fit. Considering the power of rep tools and triage hives neither of which help shield tankers at all, I just don't see that that argument holds much weight anymore. B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich
aaaasdff ertgfdd 232	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:56:00 - [64] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: jace silencerww wrote: remember not everyone like you have tons of sp to put into the fitting oper (1.8 million) to lower their pg for they weapons. remembe3r balance for all not the elite Jace , your asking for too much ... this is how Rattati and the think tank at CCP , have been balancing this game by listening to players like such ... you know , those with 50 or more million skill points ... the one's who dominate the forum and put up numbers and stats to back up their argument . They know better than you or I , you know ... those who represent the majority , those under 30 million . It's been " working " so far so why deviate from it now ? It sucks, but you must balance it for what people will eventually have, so that its not op when you get there. When you don't have much sp it can be hard, but thats part of it, you, will get there. Now, HTFU INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
aaaasdff ertgfdd 232	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:59:00 - [65] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: First of all, so I was only talking about Regulators and Energizers and it seems everyone got upset about Rechargers. Second, Alldin, I went and looked at some data and I don't think shield dropsuits are above average currently. I however noticed that the Caldari Commando is quite, quite good comparatively. I wonder if there is some uber fit combination with shield delay making it a tad OP. So far, I would only see this happening if energizers get a buff and are used together with regulators. Of course, this would be irrelevant when facing a Heavy or Scout+Shotty up close with little cover. Regarding the Commando fit, it looks normal: a Complex regulator a Enhanced Shield Extender a Complex Damage mod PRO Specialist Rail Rifle ADV Assault Scrambler Rifle Allotek Nanohive (R) Around 360 CPU is taken and PG is around 58. Unfortunately, Assaults surpass Commando in mobility, recovery, and the dps is now close due to recent damage mod buff. Racial skill may be needed to be raised to 3% damage per level or have the H/L slot layout mimic Sentinels. You are ******* drunk... What? How? Look commando noob you got 10% damage built in, + 1damage mod is 17% no stacking penalty. An assault can stack 3 damage mods and cant get 17% because of the penalty. Hell no, 3% per level is dumb. INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3271	Posted - 2014.08.22 21:02:00 - [66] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Logi Bro wrote: How I see it, they should have the best shields (slightly more than they have now, even), the second best recharge, and the second best shield recharge delay. The Minmatar, being hit and run, make the most sense as being high regen, low downtime. I already brought this up before, some went on to object to the idea. Regardless, the energizers are not to blame for how well your fitting does, the dropsuit's base stats are to blame. Energizers are only, "on the border of being too good," on Caldari dropsuits. I've always felt there was no reason to upgrade from enhanced energizers to complex for a 10% increase, why not make them more useful? SP Sinks? Fixed.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2195	Posted - 2014.08.24 14:24:00 - [67] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: On my Cal Assault I have: 1x dmg mod 1x Enhanced energizer 1x complex shield extender 2x enhanced shield extender 353 Armor with 4.80 m/s 1x Complex shield regulator 1x allotek nanohive (R) PRO combat Rifle PRO Scrambler pistol a flux grenade I get 510+ Shields with decent dps and a Shield recharge rate of nearly 50 with a delay of almost 3.0 seconds. Buffing the module even further is unecessary with the shield regen on Caldari already being double that of the average Armor rep Suit. I think this is more of a symptom of the Cal assault than it is the modules you use. The Caldari have the highest base shields, the highest base shield recharge, and the lowest base shield recharge delay. Of course your shield fits are amazing. How I see it, they should have the best shields (slightly more than they have now, even), the second best recharge, and the second best shield recharge delay. The Minmatar, being hit and run, make the most sense as being high regen, low downtime. I agree. The primary difference we're seeing in this example is racial. Also agree that high recharge low downtime makes the most sense on the minnie's smaller sheild tank. PSN: RationalSpark
Cass Caul 886	Posted - 2014.08.24 14:50:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Commando "mystery" solved, redline sniper fit Soooo, regen fit is only actually good if you don't actually engage in combat I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1205	Posted - 2014.08.25 00:15:00 - [69] - Quote aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: You are ******* drunk... What? How? Look commando noob you got 10% damage built in, + 1damage mod is 17% no stacking penalty. An assault can stack 3 damage mods and cant get 17% because of the penalty. Hell no, 3% per level is dumb. Check your numbers buddy. Alldin Kan has joined the battle!
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1143	Posted - 2014.08.25 00:44:00 - [70] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: You are ******* drunk... What? How? Look commando noob you got 10% damage built in, + 1damage mod is 17% no stacking penalty. An assault can stack 3 damage mods and cant get 17% because of the penalty. Hell no, 3% per level is dumb. Check your numbers buddy. Only for things that actually have stacking penalty, like y'know modules which are flagged for it. Commando bonus does not incur the penalty, nor does the first module, so a level 5 commando with 1 complex damage mod has a 17.7% damage increase [base dmg] * commando bonus * dmg mod 1 * damage mod 2(stacking penalty starts here) * damage mod 3 (max number of slots for cal commando. So for simplicities sake. 1 * 1.10 * 1.07 = 1.177 * 1.0609 = 1.2486793 * 1.0399 = 1.29850160407 So yeah, a commando with 3 damage mods gets about 30% more damage, and you want to increase that base damage by 5% which would jump it up to about 35% more damage. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1008	Posted - 2014.08.25 02:53:00 - [71] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: first of all... i cannot for the life of me understand why in eve online, damage mods are low slots items and speed mods are basically mid slot items, but then in dust we flip it around. the whole point was for having low hp shield tanking units having high dps to balance out the high hp of armor tanking units. armor tanking units got speed mods to help them get into range range faster so they crush the shield tankers with overwhelming hp why have we given high hp armor units, high dps as well? this is why armor tanking is so popular. you get hp and damage with zero trade off adjusting shields mods doesnt change this Agreed, flipping kin cats and damage mods would be a good first step in this. My other point of feedback... is it balanced that shield mods are essentially required to use low slots (regulator) as well as high slots(extender/recharger) to round out their primary form of tanking while armor is free to fit damage mods without any sacrifice in tanking potential? About all EVE online has for shield tanking in the lows is power diagnostic systems afaik... someone correct me if I'm wrong there. In this case... my feedback would be to move shield regulation to the high slots, and buff them slightly. Change rechargers to also decrease shield delay, and remove the penalty on shield extenders. Remove the skill for Shield Regulation, and wrap shield regulators into Shield Recharging skill. Or change the skill on Shield Regulation to lower the shield penalty delay. Adding in a Armor Layering skill which does the same for move speed. But Armor tankers have to choose between regen and pure HP, shield tankers technically do not. And in a game where HP is usually king, being able to stack the (still) nerfed damage mods is not a universally superior fit. Extenders - increase delay Energizers - reduce shields Regulators - increase recharge speed Plates- decrease speed repair - prevents pure eHP Reactives - repairs and adds eHP at the loss of speed. Shields gimp themselves armor does not. When repair modules decrease your armor by the same amount as they repair it. Or when plates reduce the effectiveness of your repair modules,then armor tanking will be harder. Until then... It takes 3 modules (2 high 1 low) to counter a 2 low armor tanker. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3907	Posted - 2014.08.25 03:12:00 - [72] - Quote Meee One wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: first of all... i cannot for the life of me understand why in eve online, damage mods are low slots items and speed mods are basically mid slot items, but then in dust we flip it around. the whole point was for having low hp shield tanking units having high dps to balance out the high hp of armor tanking units. armor tanking units got speed mods to help them get into range range faster so they crush the shield tankers with overwhelming hp why have we given high hp armor units, high dps as well? this is why armor tanking is so popular. you get hp and damage with zero trade off adjusting shields mods doesnt change this Agreed, flipping kin cats and damage mods would be a good first step in this. My other point of feedback... is it balanced that shield mods are essentially required to use low slots (regulator) as well as high slots(extender/recharger) to round out their primary form of tanking while armor is free to fit damage mods without any sacrifice in tanking potential? About all EVE online has for shield tanking in the lows is power diagnostic systems afaik... someone correct me if I'm wrong there. In this case... my feedback would be to move shield regulation to the high slots, and buff them slightly. Change rechargers to also decrease shield delay, and remove the penalty on shield extenders. Remove the skill for Shield Regulation, and wrap shield regulators into Shield Recharging skill. Or change the skill on Shield Regulation to lower the shield penalty delay. Adding in a Armor Layering skill which does the same for move speed. But Armor tankers have to choose between regen and pure HP, shield tankers technically do not. And in a game where HP is usually king, being able to stack the (still) nerfed damage mods is not a universally superior fit. Extenders - increase delay Energizers - reduce shields Regulators - increase recharge speed Plates- decrease speed repair - prevents pure eHP Reactives - repairs and adds eHP at the loss of speed. Shields gimp themselves armor does not. When repair modules decrease your armor by the same amount as they repair it. Or when plates reduce the effectiveness of your repair modules,then armor tanking will be harder. Until then... It takes 3 modules (2 high 1 low) to counter a 2 low armor tanker. I'll buy Zdubs argument more than this, though I can't say either one is all that compelling a reason to change the modules from low to high or vice versa. Perhaps decreasing the penalties for the shield mods, though as pointed out, Caldari suits can be fitted rather nicely as is. Reactives, in a way, act like energizers, you lose HP (relative to what a regular plate would give) in order to get regen. Also, the HP reduction for energizers is not that big a drawback unless it's for a sentinel, really. And if the modules are so bad, why do you want to switch them to one of your primary tank slots anyway? It really seems like what it comes down to is you just want to free up a low to brick on some more armor. Not that it Isn't a logical thing to want given the meta, but is that really the best solution to make shield suits more viable? To add armor to them? (I don't buy that you would all be adding codebreakers or kin cats. Unlikely at best.) (The godfather of tactical logistics)


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