DUST Search - Complex Shield Rechargers / Enigizers

I-Shayz-I wrote:

Energizers and Rechargers need to be completely different modules...not just modules that do the same thing, but one being 100x better (energizers cost less cpu for a much greater effect)

The reason why these modules are so similar is because the penalty is too low. Simple as that.

But it's not so simple as just increasing the penalty. As it is now, using energizers on a Caldari Heavy is actually a pretty steep sacrifice...but you could have a 20% shield penalty and scouts would still sacrifice barely anything for insane regen.
_____________________________________________________

My idea? Make rechargers like armor repairers. Instead of giving a percentage, they increase shield recharge by a set amount...like 15, 20, 25

However, the downside here is that this makes it easier for an armor tanker to have high shield regen without sacrificing anything.

Instead, the shield penalty should be a fixed value on energizers. This penalty could be as high as 30-50 shields as a sentinel wouldn't have much of an issue with that...but try using them on a scout or an assault and it now becomes MUCH better to use rechargers.

idk, no matter what we do, someone's going to be unhappy it seems like, and the best action is to take no action :/

You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.

Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
shady merc RisingSuns Dark Taboo 50	Posted - 2014.08.21 05:21:00 - [31] - Quote You could argue about alot of things that are wrong with Shield but this is not one of them. Things that would help shield users Make Kin Cats easier to fit, This would help increase the difference in mobility between armor and shields Give armor suit more built in HP but reduce the difference between armor plate and shield extenders effectiveness Change the SCR. The scramble rifle is one of the biggest issue with the shield vs armor metagame. Change map design which would help alleviate balancing issue for shield,armor, heavys, sniper rifles,etc (client side update I know it won't happen) The Scrambler Rifle causes this due to the fact that it does more damage in one shot then a complex shield extender offers. Combined with the fact that its a rifle and not some situation weapon( like the MD or laser rifle) and its will always be safer to fit armor then shields. This issue is made worse by the fact that all weapons that do well against armor have no issues against shield due to their lower hitpoints. So any time shields get a buff or become popular more scrambler rifle will show up to the battlefield. While this a good thing the same thing doesn't happen to armor, because everything that can make quick work of your armor suit will also make quick work of your shield suit.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2279	Posted - 2014.08.21 06:04:00 - [32] - Quote We were both wrong. 15% from skillz.
Boot Booter Pure Evil. 876	Posted - 2014.08.21 16:11:00 - [33] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Boot Booter wrote: OK I may be insane but you just precisely proved my point, nobody uses complex energizers or rechargers. Rattati I'm sure you've seen data to confirm this. Oh and it's not like anyone has been saying shields are OP lol. I still believe a buff like I suggested makes more sense. Rechargers are a must for Caldari/Minmatar Sentinels and its stats do not require tweaking. ADV Energizer got an unnecessary buff, to give the PRO variant a higher value would be excessive so it's best to just change the value on ADV to %50 and leave the PRO module untouched. Fine so you admit that complex shield energizers, supposedly the most powerful shield recharge module in the game, are worthless. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 4330	Posted - 2014.08.21 17:04:00 - [34] - Quote Master Smurf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction More Minny issues incoming then. Please don't let this go unnoticed. Level 4 Forum Warrior Very, very bitter vet PSN: wbrom42
Kaeru Nayiri Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 17	Posted - 2014.08.21 17:20:00 - [35] - Quote Does Shield Recharge Delay still take over from Shield Depleted Rechage Delay if you continue to take damage after shield is depleted, and into armor? This plays a part in it.
Boot Booter Pure Evil. 876	Posted - 2014.08.21 17:49:00 - [36] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Does Shield Recharge Delay still take over from Shield Depleted Rechage Delay if you continue to take damage after shield is depleted, and into armor? This plays a part in it. Yes. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Cruor Abominare Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 134	Posted - 2014.08.22 02:49:00 - [37] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Freccia di Lybra wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction Buff the extenders then! even just a little bit! Shield tanking need some love! it does.. the extenders need to scale like 44 66 88 not 33 50 66 its like a huge leap between 33 and 50 but then the 50 to 66 is underwhelming 17 is a massive jump but 16 is underwhelming? I uh, yea.
Sgt Kirk Lucent Echelon 7342	Posted - 2014.08.22 03:17:00 - [38] - Quote Cruor Abominare wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Freccia di Lybra wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction Buff the extenders then! even just a little bit! Shield tanking need some love! it does.. the extenders need to scale like 44 66 88 not 33 50 66 its like a huge leap between 33 and 50 but then the 50 to 66 is underwhelming 17 is a massive jump but 16 is underwhelming? I uh, yea. You should know that DUST players are highly illogical. Lucent Echelon -The Brightest Ranks Gallente Faction Warfare Chanel
Atiim 11562	Posted - 2014.08.22 03:35:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: And maybe some tiny PG introduction Please Don't. DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1109	Posted - 2014.08.22 04:52:00 - [40] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: remember not everyone like you have tons of sp to put into the fitting oper (1.8 million) to lower their pg for they weapons. remembe3r balance for all not the elite Jace , your asking for too much ... this is how Rattati and the think tank at CCP , have been balancing this game by listening to players like such ... you know , those with 50 or more million skill points ... the one's who dominate the forum and put up numbers and stats to back up their argument . They know better than you or I , you know ... those who represent the majority , those under 30 million . It's been " working " so far so why deviate from it now ? You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1109	Posted - 2014.08.22 04:58:00 - [41] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Energizers and Rechargers need to be completely different modules...not just modules that do the same thing, but one being 100x better (energizers cost less cpu for a much greater effect) The reason why these modules are so similar is because the penalty is too low. Simple as that. But it's not so simple as just increasing the penalty. As it is now, using energizers on a Caldari Heavy is actually a pretty steep sacrifice...but you could have a 20% shield penalty and scouts would still sacrifice barely anything for insane regen. _____________________________________________________ My idea? Make rechargers like armor repairers. Instead of giving a percentage, they increase shield recharge by a set amount...like 15, 20, 25 However, the downside here is that this makes it easier for an armor tanker to have high shield regen without sacrificing anything. Instead, the shield penalty should be a fixed value on energizers. This penalty could be as high as 30-50 shields as a sentinel wouldn't have much of an issue with that...but try using them on a scout or an assault and it now becomes MUCH better to use rechargers. idk, no matter what we do, someone's going to be unhappy it seems like, and the best action is to take no action :/ ^^^ It's a start , nice work . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5592	Posted - 2014.08.22 07:44:00 - [42] - Quote First of all, so I was only talking about Regulators and Energizers and it seems everyone got upset about Rechargers. Second, Alldin, I went and looked at some data and I don't think shield dropsuits are above average currently. I however noticed that the Caldari Commando is quite, quite good comparatively. I wonder if there is some uber fit combination with shield delay making it a tad OP. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 345	Posted - 2014.08.22 07:54:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: First of all, so I was only talking about Regulators and Energizers and it seems everyone got upset about Rechargers. Second, Alldin, I went and looked at some data and I don't think shield dropsuits are above average currently. I however noticed that the Caldari Commando is quite, quite good comparatively. I wonder if there is some uber fit combination with shield delay making it a tad OP. that's interesting to know, only ever use it for sniping in one fashion or another really, may have to revise some of my fit outs any opinion on the calsent? it seems like it's just not worth using regulators vs armour reps, plates or reactives Also seems like it's not worth losing the hp to use energizers, maybe if extenders were better or energizers were less cpu/pg... Which is even more evident if your squaded with a logibro. that said it doesn't seem like a weak suit until you come across some of the other heavies with a logi bro. of course if they are more for assaults and scouts i guess it doesn't matter..
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2287	Posted - 2014.08.22 10:31:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: First of all, so I was only talking about Regulators and Energizers and it seems everyone got upset about Rechargers. Second, Alldin, I went and looked at some data and I don't think shield dropsuits are above average currently. I however noticed that the Caldari Commando is quite, quite good comparatively. I wonder if there is some uber fit combination with shield delay making it a tad OP. I run Calmando at the standard level. what level of calmando is this trend popping up to, and what trends are you looking for? Will skill up Calmando to test this question.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2934	Posted - 2014.08.22 10:36:00 - [45] - Quote I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2287	Posted - 2014.08.22 10:37:00 - [46] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. I haven't actually been having issues with using shields except for fitting them on a Caldari sentinel. They eat a boat-ton of CPU. Caldari Sentinel or Shield-Heavy MinSent with a Burst HMG is a goddamn BEAST that recovers rapidly.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2934	Posted - 2014.08.22 10:39:00 - [47] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. I haven't actually been having issues with using shields except for fitting them on a sentinel. They eat a boat-ton of CPU. Caldari Sentinel or Shield-Heavy MinSent with a Burst HMG is a goddamn BEAST that recovers rapidly. If I fit a dual tank I can fit whatever I want but when I use a repair fit on a shield suit my cpu caps really fast. Only way I can fit a side arm or a grenade is if I use a state rail rifle. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2287	Posted - 2014.08.22 10:40:00 - [48] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. I haven't actually been having issues with using shields except for fitting them on a sentinel. They eat a boat-ton of CPU. Caldari Sentinel or Shield-Heavy MinSent with a Burst HMG is a goddamn BEAST that recovers rapidly. If I fit a dual tank I can fit whatever I want but when I use a repair fit on a shield suit my cpu caps really fast. Only way I can fit a side arm or a grenade is if I use a state rail rifle. I have noticed that it's a LOT easier to fit complex reps or a reactive plate than it is to fit a regulator. Caldari resourced are tight.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5593	Posted - 2014.08.22 11:34:00 - [49] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. Regulators and Energizers, not Rechargers and Extenders... "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5593	Posted - 2014.08.22 11:36:00 - [50] - Quote Commando "mystery" solved, redline sniper fit "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1014	Posted - 2014.08.22 12:14:00 - [51] - Quote I'm dying of not surprise. Dust/Eve transfers
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1014	Posted - 2014.08.22 12:16:00 - [52] - Quote I like Shayz' suggestion that rechargers vs energisers could be differentiated by a flat rate vs percentage increase, with light frames favouring one, heavies favouring the other, and medium frames having a tough choice between them. Dust/Eve transfers
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2291	Posted - 2014.08.22 12:41:00 - [53] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Commando "mystery" solved, redline sniper fit Still worth driving a jeep deep into the redline to remove a thale from the game permanently.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2935	Posted - 2014.08.22 13:50:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. Regulators and Energizers, not Rechargers and Extenders... I said recharging modules to encompass all forms including regulators. And when I mean extenders look through this thread and other threads where people jeep constantly asking for extenders buffs so they can properly fit repair supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 5598	Posted - 2014.08.22 14:28:00 - [55] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. Regulators and Energizers, not Rechargers and Extenders... I said recharging modules to encompass all forms including regulators. And when I mean extenders look through this thread and other threads where people jeep constantly asking for extenders buffs so they can properly fit repair We are not changing Extenders "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 514	Posted - 2014.08.22 18:07:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: I'm sorry but you cannot buff shield extenders and recharging modules at the same time, especially extenders. You cannot have high EHP and high repairs; this would cause way to many balance problems. Remember the rep, Madrugars? Choosing to run a repair fit is a sacrifice, if you can't accept the sacrifice then don't run the fit. The only thing that really needs to be done is tweaking the cpu of the modules, and some tweaking of basic and adv tier modules. The reason for the cpu is because my repair caldari suit can't fit a side arm or grenade properly, compared to my Gal repair fit which can fit a advanced side arm and basic flux grenade. Regulators and Energizers, not Rechargers and Extenders... first of all... i cannot for the life of me understand why in eve online, damage mods are low slots items and speed mods are basically mid slot items, but then in dust we flip it around. the whole point was for having low hp shield tanking units having high dps to balance out the high hp of armor tanking units. armor tanking units got speed mods to help them get into range range faster so they crush the shield tankers with overwhelming hp why have we given high hp armor units, high dps as well? this is why armor tanking is so popular. you get hp and damage with zero trade off adjusting shields mods doesnt change this
idlerowl Old-Type 9	Posted - 2014.08.22 18:21:00 - [57] - Quote CPU reduction is good. And about a number of Energizer. When I make Assault ck.0 an example,(All Skill MAX) < Shield Recharge Rate > basic [42.08] HP/s ADV [48.98] HP/s PRO [52.43] HP/s The differences between ADV and PRO are 3.5 for 6.9 differences between basic and ADV. I would like the numerical rise of proto. (around 10%) About Regulator, I intend to do post later. (I am sorry in poor English , and poor explain)
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3221	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:23:00 - [58] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: first of all... i cannot for the life of me understand why in eve online, damage mods are low slots items and speed mods are basically mid slot items, but then in dust we flip it around. the whole point was for having low hp shield tanking units having high dps to balance out the high hp of armor tanking units. armor tanking units got speed mods to help them get into range range faster so they crush the shield tankers with overwhelming hp why have we given high hp armor units, high dps as well? this is why armor tanking is so popular. you get hp and damage with zero trade off adjusting shields mods doesnt change this Agreed, flipping kin cats and damage mods would be a good first step in this. My other point of feedback... is it balanced that shield mods are essentially required to use low slots (regulator) as well as high slots(extender/recharger) to round out their primary form of tanking while armor is free to fit damage mods without any sacrifice in tanking potential? About all EVE online has for shield tanking in the lows is power diagnostic systems afaik... someone correct me if I'm wrong there. In this case... my feedback would be to move shield regulation to the high slots, and buff them slightly. Change rechargers to also decrease shield delay, and remove the penalty on shield extenders. Remove the skill for Shield Regulation, and wrap shield regulators into Shield Recharging skill. Or change the skill on Shield Regulation to lower the shield penalty delay. Adding in a Armor Layering skill which does the same for move speed. B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich
aaaasdff ertgfdd 232	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:41:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Any buff will be through CPU reduction, and maybe some tiny PG introduction Jesus christ leave them alone please, we have not enough pg as it is, they are fine please just leave them alone. Fix terrain glitches, grenade hit detection, anything but these. Damn fix the problems that have been here since DAY1..... INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
aaaasdff ertgfdd 232	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:47:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: First of all, so I was only talking about Regulators and Energizers and it seems everyone got upset about Rechargers. Second, Alldin, I went and looked at some data and I don't think shield dropsuits are above average currently. I however noticed that the Caldari Commando is quite, quite good comparatively. I wonder if there is some uber fit combination with shield delay making it a tad OP. Lolz, you calling out Alldins sniper fit? INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN



Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page