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Complex Shield Rechargers / Enigizers

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3902	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:50:00 - [61] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: first of all... i cannot for the life of me understand why in eve online, damage mods are low slots items and speed mods are basically mid slot items, but then in dust we flip it around. the whole point was for having low hp shield tanking units having high dps to balance out the high hp of armor tanking units. armor tanking units got speed mods to help them get into range range faster so they crush the shield tankers with overwhelming hp why have we given high hp armor units, high dps as well? this is why armor tanking is so popular. you get hp and damage with zero trade off adjusting shields mods doesnt change this Agreed, flipping kin cats and damage mods would be a good first step in this. My other point of feedback... is it balanced that shield mods are essentially required to use low slots (regulator) as well as high slots(extender/recharger) to round out their primary form of tanking while armor is free to fit damage mods without any sacrifice in tanking potential? About all EVE online has for shield tanking in the lows is power diagnostic systems afaik... someone correct me if I'm wrong there. In this case... my feedback would be to move shield regulation to the high slots, and buff them slightly. Change rechargers to also decrease shield delay, and remove the penalty on shield extenders. Remove the skill for Shield Regulation, and wrap shield regulators into Shield Recharging skill. Or change the skill on Shield Regulation to lower the shield penalty delay. Adding in a Armor Layering skill which does the same for move speed. But Armor tankers have to choose between regen and pure HP, shield tankers technically do not. And in a game where HP is usually king, being able to stack the (still) nerfed damage mods is not a universally superior fit. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1200	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:53:00 - [62] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: First of all, so I was only talking about Regulators and Energizers and it seems everyone got upset about Rechargers. Second, Alldin, I went and looked at some data and I don't think shield dropsuits are above average currently. I however noticed that the Caldari Commando is quite, quite good comparatively. I wonder if there is some uber fit combination with shield delay making it a tad OP. So far, I would only see this happening if energizers get a buff and are used together with regulators. Of course, this would be irrelevant when facing a Heavy or Scout+Shotty up close with little cover. Regarding the Commando fit, it looks normal: a Complex regulator a Enhanced Shield Extender a Complex Damage mod PRO Specialist Rail Rifle ADV Assault Scrambler Rifle Allotek Nanohive (R) Around 360 CPU is taken and PG is around 58. Unfortunately, Assaults surpass Commando in mobility, recovery, and the dps is now close due to recent damage mod buff. Racial skill may be needed to be raised to 3% damage per level or have the H/L slot layout mimic Sentinels. Alldin Kan has joined the battle!
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback 3221	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:53:00 - [63] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: first of all... i cannot for the life of me understand why in eve online, damage mods are low slots items and speed mods are basically mid slot items, but then in dust we flip it around. the whole point was for having low hp shield tanking units having high dps to balance out the high hp of armor tanking units. armor tanking units got speed mods to help them get into range range faster so they crush the shield tankers with overwhelming hp why have we given high hp armor units, high dps as well? this is why armor tanking is so popular. you get hp and damage with zero trade off adjusting shields mods doesnt change this Agreed, flipping kin cats and damage mods would be a good first step in this. My other point of feedback... is it balanced that shield mods are essentially required to use low slots (regulator) as well as high slots(extender/recharger) to round out their primary form of tanking while armor is free to fit damage mods without any sacrifice in tanking potential? About all EVE online has for shield tanking in the lows is power diagnostic systems afaik... someone correct me if I'm wrong there. In this case... my feedback would be to move shield regulation to the high slots, and buff them slightly. Change rechargers to also decrease shield delay, and remove the penalty on shield extenders. Remove the skill for Shield Regulation, and wrap shield regulators into Shield Recharging skill. Or change the skill on Shield Regulation to lower the shield penalty delay. Adding in a Armor Layering skill which does the same for move speed. But Armor tankers have to choose between regen and pure HP, shield tankers technically do not. And in a game where HP is usually king, being able to stack the (still) nerfed damage mods is not a universally superior fit. Considering the power of rep tools and triage hives neither of which help shield tankers at all, I just don't see that that argument holds much weight anymore. B C R U are letters, not words - Wierd Al Yankovich
aaaasdff ertgfdd 232	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:56:00 - [64] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: jace silencerww wrote: remember not everyone like you have tons of sp to put into the fitting oper (1.8 million) to lower their pg for they weapons. remembe3r balance for all not the elite Jace , your asking for too much ... this is how Rattati and the think tank at CCP , have been balancing this game by listening to players like such ... you know , those with 50 or more million skill points ... the one's who dominate the forum and put up numbers and stats to back up their argument . They know better than you or I , you know ... those who represent the majority , those under 30 million . It's been " working " so far so why deviate from it now ? It sucks, but you must balance it for what people will eventually have, so that its not op when you get there. When you don't have much sp it can be hard, but thats part of it, you, will get there. Now, HTFU INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
aaaasdff ertgfdd 232	Posted - 2014.08.22 19:59:00 - [65] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: First of all, so I was only talking about Regulators and Energizers and it seems everyone got upset about Rechargers. Second, Alldin, I went and looked at some data and I don't think shield dropsuits are above average currently. I however noticed that the Caldari Commando is quite, quite good comparatively. I wonder if there is some uber fit combination with shield delay making it a tad OP. So far, I would only see this happening if energizers get a buff and are used together with regulators. Of course, this would be irrelevant when facing a Heavy or Scout+Shotty up close with little cover. Regarding the Commando fit, it looks normal: a Complex regulator a Enhanced Shield Extender a Complex Damage mod PRO Specialist Rail Rifle ADV Assault Scrambler Rifle Allotek Nanohive (R) Around 360 CPU is taken and PG is around 58. Unfortunately, Assaults surpass Commando in mobility, recovery, and the dps is now close due to recent damage mod buff. Racial skill may be needed to be raised to 3% damage per level or have the H/L slot layout mimic Sentinels. You are ******* drunk... What? How? Look commando noob you got 10% damage built in, + 1damage mod is 17% no stacking penalty. An assault can stack 3 damage mods and cant get 17% because of the penalty. Hell no, 3% per level is dumb. INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
Logi Bro Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 3271	Posted - 2014.08.22 21:02:00 - [66] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Logi Bro wrote: How I see it, they should have the best shields (slightly more than they have now, even), the second best recharge, and the second best shield recharge delay. The Minmatar, being hit and run, make the most sense as being high regen, low downtime. I already brought this up before, some went on to object to the idea. Regardless, the energizers are not to blame for how well your fitting does, the dropsuit's base stats are to blame. Energizers are only, "on the border of being too good," on Caldari dropsuits. I've always felt there was no reason to upgrade from enhanced energizers to complex for a 10% increase, why not make them more useful? SP Sinks? Fixed.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2195	Posted - 2014.08.24 14:24:00 - [67] - Quote Logi Bro wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: On my Cal Assault I have: 1x dmg mod 1x Enhanced energizer 1x complex shield extender 2x enhanced shield extender 353 Armor with 4.80 m/s 1x Complex shield regulator 1x allotek nanohive (R) PRO combat Rifle PRO Scrambler pistol a flux grenade I get 510+ Shields with decent dps and a Shield recharge rate of nearly 50 with a delay of almost 3.0 seconds. Buffing the module even further is unecessary with the shield regen on Caldari already being double that of the average Armor rep Suit. I think this is more of a symptom of the Cal assault than it is the modules you use. The Caldari have the highest base shields, the highest base shield recharge, and the lowest base shield recharge delay. Of course your shield fits are amazing. How I see it, they should have the best shields (slightly more than they have now, even), the second best recharge, and the second best shield recharge delay. The Minmatar, being hit and run, make the most sense as being high regen, low downtime. I agree. The primary difference we're seeing in this example is racial. Also agree that high recharge low downtime makes the most sense on the minnie's smaller sheild tank. PSN: RationalSpark
Cass Caul 886	Posted - 2014.08.24 14:50:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Commando "mystery" solved, redline sniper fit Soooo, regen fit is only actually good if you don't actually engage in combat I blame her for nova knife kills on tanks
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1205	Posted - 2014.08.25 00:15:00 - [69] - Quote aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: You are ******* drunk... What? How? Look commando noob you got 10% damage built in, + 1damage mod is 17% no stacking penalty. An assault can stack 3 damage mods and cant get 17% because of the penalty. Hell no, 3% per level is dumb. Check your numbers buddy. Alldin Kan has joined the battle!
MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1143	Posted - 2014.08.25 00:44:00 - [70] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: You are ******* drunk... What? How? Look commando noob you got 10% damage built in, + 1damage mod is 17% no stacking penalty. An assault can stack 3 damage mods and cant get 17% because of the penalty. Hell no, 3% per level is dumb. Check your numbers buddy. Only for things that actually have stacking penalty, like y'know modules which are flagged for it. Commando bonus does not incur the penalty, nor does the first module, so a level 5 commando with 1 complex damage mod has a 17.7% damage increase [base dmg] * commando bonus * dmg mod 1 * damage mod 2(stacking penalty starts here) * damage mod 3 (max number of slots for cal commando. So for simplicities sake. 1 * 1.10 * 1.07 = 1.177 * 1.0609 = 1.2486793 * 1.0399 = 1.29850160407 So yeah, a commando with 3 damage mods gets about 30% more damage, and you want to increase that base damage by 5% which would jump it up to about 35% more damage. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1008	Posted - 2014.08.25 02:53:00 - [71] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: first of all... i cannot for the life of me understand why in eve online, damage mods are low slots items and speed mods are basically mid slot items, but then in dust we flip it around. the whole point was for having low hp shield tanking units having high dps to balance out the high hp of armor tanking units. armor tanking units got speed mods to help them get into range range faster so they crush the shield tankers with overwhelming hp why have we given high hp armor units, high dps as well? this is why armor tanking is so popular. you get hp and damage with zero trade off adjusting shields mods doesnt change this Agreed, flipping kin cats and damage mods would be a good first step in this. My other point of feedback... is it balanced that shield mods are essentially required to use low slots (regulator) as well as high slots(extender/recharger) to round out their primary form of tanking while armor is free to fit damage mods without any sacrifice in tanking potential? About all EVE online has for shield tanking in the lows is power diagnostic systems afaik... someone correct me if I'm wrong there. In this case... my feedback would be to move shield regulation to the high slots, and buff them slightly. Change rechargers to also decrease shield delay, and remove the penalty on shield extenders. Remove the skill for Shield Regulation, and wrap shield regulators into Shield Recharging skill. Or change the skill on Shield Regulation to lower the shield penalty delay. Adding in a Armor Layering skill which does the same for move speed. But Armor tankers have to choose between regen and pure HP, shield tankers technically do not. And in a game where HP is usually king, being able to stack the (still) nerfed damage mods is not a universally superior fit. Extenders - increase delay Energizers - reduce shields Regulators - increase recharge speed Plates- decrease speed repair - prevents pure eHP Reactives - repairs and adds eHP at the loss of speed. Shields gimp themselves armor does not. When repair modules decrease your armor by the same amount as they repair it. Or when plates reduce the effectiveness of your repair modules,then armor tanking will be harder. Until then... It takes 3 modules (2 high 1 low) to counter a 2 low armor tanker. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 3907	Posted - 2014.08.25 03:12:00 - [72] - Quote Meee One wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: first of all... i cannot for the life of me understand why in eve online, damage mods are low slots items and speed mods are basically mid slot items, but then in dust we flip it around. the whole point was for having low hp shield tanking units having high dps to balance out the high hp of armor tanking units. armor tanking units got speed mods to help them get into range range faster so they crush the shield tankers with overwhelming hp why have we given high hp armor units, high dps as well? this is why armor tanking is so popular. you get hp and damage with zero trade off adjusting shields mods doesnt change this Agreed, flipping kin cats and damage mods would be a good first step in this. My other point of feedback... is it balanced that shield mods are essentially required to use low slots (regulator) as well as high slots(extender/recharger) to round out their primary form of tanking while armor is free to fit damage mods without any sacrifice in tanking potential? About all EVE online has for shield tanking in the lows is power diagnostic systems afaik... someone correct me if I'm wrong there. In this case... my feedback would be to move shield regulation to the high slots, and buff them slightly. Change rechargers to also decrease shield delay, and remove the penalty on shield extenders. Remove the skill for Shield Regulation, and wrap shield regulators into Shield Recharging skill. Or change the skill on Shield Regulation to lower the shield penalty delay. Adding in a Armor Layering skill which does the same for move speed. But Armor tankers have to choose between regen and pure HP, shield tankers technically do not. And in a game where HP is usually king, being able to stack the (still) nerfed damage mods is not a universally superior fit. Extenders - increase delay Energizers - reduce shields Regulators - increase recharge speed Plates- decrease speed repair - prevents pure eHP Reactives - repairs and adds eHP at the loss of speed. Shields gimp themselves armor does not. When repair modules decrease your armor by the same amount as they repair it. Or when plates reduce the effectiveness of your repair modules,then armor tanking will be harder. Until then... It takes 3 modules (2 high 1 low) to counter a 2 low armor tanker. I'll buy Zdubs argument more than this, though I can't say either one is all that compelling a reason to change the modules from low to high or vice versa. Perhaps decreasing the penalties for the shield mods, though as pointed out, Caldari suits can be fitted rather nicely as is. Reactives, in a way, act like energizers, you lose HP (relative to what a regular plate would give) in order to get regen. Also, the HP reduction for energizers is not that big a drawback unless it's for a sentinel, really. And if the modules are so bad, why do you want to switch them to one of your primary tank slots anyway? It really seems like what it comes down to is you just want to free up a low to brick on some more armor. Not that it Isn't a logical thing to want given the meta, but is that really the best solution to make shield suits more viable? To add armor to them? (I don't buy that you would all be adding codebreakers or kin cats. Unlikely at best.) (The godfather of tactical logistics)


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