Because I guess they figured its time for you to get out of the redline.

Show the numbers to back that up and someone might listen
As a career sniper you lose alot of credibility right off the hop b/c snipers, in general, are ***** scrubs.
I get it though. I used to snipe all the time with that Thale's, but your issue really should be with redline snipers. They are the ones forcing ccp to nerf scrub snipers banging out 25/1 matches deep in the red with a Thale's. It really is a problem.
If there were no red zone, or any way to drastically reduce it in size then I might even back you up on that one.
As far as I'm concerned, until that happens, if your opponents still render at 600+m then you'll just have to figure it out.
Just repeating the same cod bs (because you ARE wrong) makes you look like a complete idiot

There is more reward and little to no risk involved with the Thale's if you even compare it with other officer weapons used in the game. Plus, on many occasions people who use it are armor and shield stack up to their eyeballs when using it in some god forsaken place in the redline. Rarely a counter for it (and let's exclude another Thale sniper to counter as a solution). It needed to be tuned down. But sensing you are unsatisfied with what CCP did , it seems you have a better solution....so let's here it.

Why do people always have to cry about red line sniprs? Especially when they cry about a weapon that is ment for long range.
The Thale was the only sniper rifle that you could use effectively use at the 600m range, every other sniper rifle you have to st between 300-400 meters to use effectively, and now you have to do the same with the Thale.

You want another solution besides what CCP did, simple, if it is not broken, don't fix it. Snipers have always gotten dumped on for the longest time because people cry "oh i got killed by a sniper from 400m away" well guess what, that's what there supposed to do, kill you from far away.

Is a sniper supposed to be seen when shooting at people? No he is not.
Is a sniper supposed to be on the ground shooting at people? No he is supposed to up high somewhere so he can see the field.
Is a sniper supposed to be forced to shoot at someone within the same range as an assault rifle or rail rifle can reach you at? No because the you are to close and easy to kill.

There is a very simple reason for people complaining about redline snipers.

it is because they do not like snipers.
do not make the mistake of thinking that because it is what they sit behind it is the real and only problem..

I assure you that if the red line was removed, they would then complain about our range until that was nerfed, then they would complain that we are always going into high places until we couldn't get to them anymore, then they would complain that we always set up in positions where we can see them coming, (which is one of the issues with redlines,btw.)
after all of that they would complain that we are quick scoping, and do more damage per bullet than other rifles...
eventually after all of that they would say... snipers are completely useless please get rid of them.

they don't care about the ballistics even though will ask for them.
they will ask for our range to be reduced in order to fix red line snipers even though it would it mean red line snipers were now safe and they could of asked to change the red line mechanics (I actually put threads on here with ideas and nobody was interested-at all).
they will say about how good a sniper is if he doesn't use distances, even though they will say that they don't want us to quick scope.

because their problem is Snipers.

on to the thales, the thales is still the most superior sniper rifle, it performs at the proto level when the proto rifles perform at advanced level.
if you don't believe me take a kalakiota and headsot an amarr pro sentinel. or even a charge, with the first you will need to reload by the time you get close to a kill, with the charge they will be in cover by the time you charge your next shot.

(and honestly you will even struggle with most mediums at proto level.)

people can say about how well it performs at pub, but the thing is it shouldn't be getting wasted on pub matches, at pub level most players use advanced gear, (although running proto seems to be more popular now, but in pc battles everybody is proto.) it is 2 tiers higher than what should need to be used for pubs.

finally on to "career" or "dedicated" snipers, to us things like position are paramount, not because of red lines and safety but because of the way sniping works relying on line of sight much more than other weapons.
even if the red line was completely taken away you would still find me using the same positions i use at the moment (no they are not even mostly in the red line anyway, but some are due to map design.)
which is why sometimes i'm near my enemies red line, sometimes i will go back to a position even if i just died there, (most would say it's stupid to do that, but it has it's uses.)
and it's why back when people qq'd to remove some of the best positions we all said don't do it because it will increase the (at the time small issue) red line sniping.
do not refer to all snipers in the same way because it is not the "snipers" you people have problems with it is the ground runners that try to retire to it.

Lets make a comparison here for a second--

Lets take a Thales and a Balacs AR, two of the "best" officer light weapons.

Compared to the prototype variants (ishukone Sniper Rifle and Duvolle assault Rifle)--

Duvolle DPS-~500
Balac's DPS-~575

Thats a 15% damage increase right there

Versus

Ishukone damage-230
Thales damage-355

Thats a 54% damage increase right there...

So, relative to other officer weapons, the Thales is OP even without a special attribute such as added zoom.

However, with the eHP buffs all non-scout suits have gotten recently, I think its fair to give an increase to the damage of alpha weapons (Sniper, PLC, NK's, Shotgun, Breach Mass Driver, most pistols)

In dust, you don't have to kill people to be useful while sniping. Most snipers have this notion that you MUST kill every target that you hit.

Most snipers seem to want to easily kill people who are in proto without taking into consideration that you are sniping from far back with minimal risk and expect to 2 hit kill a 200k+ fit.

In a game like dust, it would be silly to one hit kill a proto with a sniper because we have risk vs reward don't we.

Sniping far back is the absolute minimum risk. How many hits would you consider reasonable in a game with risk vs reward, no bullet drop or travel time?.

I know that sniping can sometimes get very little payouts so dying once can put you in a guaranteed -isk situation but its minimal risk for minimal reward.

In fact the increased reward for your costly sniper is the damage it does.

The zoom level on the Thales has not been changed, nor have any other stats. Your all just terrible snipers and won't admit it. I imagine that it looks different though due to the crosshair changing in Hotfix Charlie.

The zoom level on the Thales has not been changed, nor have any other stats. I imagine that it looks different though due to the crosshair changing in Hotfix Charlie.

The zoom level on the Thales has not been changed, nor have any other stats. I imagine that it looks different though due to the crosshair changing in Hotfix Charlie.

The zoom level on the Thales has not been changed, nor have any other stats. I imagine that it looks different though due to the crosshair changing in Hotfix Charlie.

So wait people and CPM are here discussing why the Thales is superior to the other snipers.....

Are you lot losing your minds or something? ITS AN OFFICER WEAPON - of course it is superior.......

I'm not a sniper, I have never even used the Thale's but the fact that it had increased zoom was something I always liked the idea of.

Blaming a scope for red line antics is a weak weak argument. The problem is map design and ridiculous red line boundaries.

As per usual you are slowly making this game worse by the month. Every detail of this game is being ruined.......

An its like that circular aiming reticule..... who ever thought that was a good idea? Seriously it was a moronic choice there is nothing else to it.

Go and have a look at 99% of real world scopes and rifles..... you tend to notice that the crosshairs are simple dots or simple crosses....none of this "GUESS WHERE IN THE CIRCLE THE BULLET WILL TRAVEL"

unfortunately you just completely overlooked the fact that the proto level ishukone doesn't do proto level damage, and is completely useless in pc (where you would expect a proto rifle to damage proto level gear)

I'm not saying that the difference is damage percentage wise is right, but the ishukone damage kind of needs to go up.



true there are other things that a sniper should be doing but as you only get 50wp for kills, and 15wp (i think) for hives and uplinks it's kind of limiting what they are supposed to do



I'm an aggressive sniper, i snipe for kills and to aid my team, support my squad, decimate group attacks to break their momentum, destroy uplinks and hives.
I'm one of the few who tries to get to the best vantage points for the situation at hand, I'm normally in a relatively exposed situation, that's how i get my kills you see

so you don't believe that if i am in an exposed position, have fully skilled into sniping, taking my time to place headshots and playing as a member of a team that i should be a threat on the battlefield?

i'm sorry but headshots from sniper rifles should do much more damage. they are a joke.

and you say that the reward i deserve for running an expensive fit in exposed and frequently dangerous (some of my positions mean instant death on the slightest error) positions and according to your horrible idea sacrificing my isk reward is that i get to use an underpowered sniper rifle.

gee thanks

n.b i included your comment about ballistics here because there is a thread in these forums, i believe it was called something interesting, i'll edit it in shortly, it is a thread containing a wiki link to information about rail rifles in current day real life, here's the thing.. they have enough force to penetrate a tank when they fire at 3000m/s (in dust it's 2500) and they do not suffer from bullet drop at all for at least the first kilometer, the speed that it travels at means it arrives almost instantly, and the force from a rail gun shot would be akin to that of a bus travelling at nearly 400 miles per hour, bear in mind that it would also be a sharp projectile which would increase pressure...
are you so sure you want realistic ballistics?

On the contrary.

In dust, you don't have to kill people to be useful while sniping. Most snipers have this notion that you MUST kill every target that you hit.

Most snipers seem to want to easily kill people who are in proto without taking into consideration that you are sniping from far back with minimal risk and expect to 2 hit kill a 200k+ fit.

In a game like dust, it would be silly to one hit kill a proto with a sniper because we have risk vs reward don't we.

Sniping far back is the absolute minimum risk. How many hits would you consider reasonable in a game with risk vs reward, no bullet drop or travel time?.

I know that sniping can sometimes get very little payouts so dying once can put you in a guaranteed -isk situation but its minimal risk for minimal reward.

In fact the increased reward for your costly sniper is the damage it does.

I have the charged with prof 2 or 3 as well, I have sniped a lot in dust and put the sp into it. I run a charged with damage mods. I plink/ohk people and shoot at the reds who are engaged in combat to aid my teams efforts, snipe uplinks, shoot out ds gunners or at least make the pilot fly off to save his buddy.

Counter sniping goes without saying.

I find that it can be annoying with how much HP people have but you have to respect that their fit costs a lot, they have put a lot of time and isk into what they have and they are down there risking it much more than I am, when I'm sniping.

Another thing that most snipers fail to do in dust is re locate and actually adapt to what is going on. A god sniper will be mobile and will move into different positions relative to what is happening.

Well, that or just fit a high HP suit and sit in a nice spot with cover.

That's just made me think actually, how do you think the other players who try to counter snipe you feel when you simply just duck out the way and regen?.

I'd imagine it'd be something like "wtf the guy won't die and just regens his HP, that's op!"

Your argument. " but I invested all this sp into sniping"

Well the people that you/we'd like to ohk/2 hit kill have also invested a lot and probably a lot more sp into their suits. The ones who are down in the action playing at a very high risk rate just for fun.

The zoom level on the Thales has not been changed, nor have any other stats. I imagine that it looks different though due to the crosshair changing in Hotfix Charlie.

So, In all actual reality, the Thales is now classified as a Prototype sniper with no significant difference other than the damage ?

Every time I salvage a Thale's I imagine smelting them down into a pile of slag while making all the mercs that want these rifles watch.

Pretty sure that a Logi LAV BPO doesn't exist. You probably are referring to the Guristas Saga LAVv BPO that had a similar paint scheme that the real logi lavs had. This confusion probably would not exist if CCP had kept the original gold paint scheme on the Guristas Saga