DUST Search - Really What Was The Point?

843-Vika wrote:

Nobinishi wrote:

There is more reward and little to no risk involved with the Thale's if you even compare it with other officer weapons used in the game. Plus, on many occasions people who use it are armor and shield stack up to their eyeballs when using it in some god forsaken place in the redline. Rarely a counter for it (and let's exclude another Thale sniper to counter as a solution). It needed to be tuned down. But sensing you are unsatisfied with what CCP did , it seems you have a better solution....so let's here it. What?

Why do people always have to cry about red line sniprs? Especially when they cry about a weapon that is ment for long range.
The Thale was the only sniper rifle that you could use effectively use at the 600m range, every other sniper rifle you have to st between 300-400 meters to use effectively, and now you have to do the same with the Thale.

You want another solution besides what CCP did, simple, if it is not broken, don't fix it. Snipers have always gotten dumped on for the longest time because people cry "oh i got killed by a sniper from 400m away" well guess what, that's what there supposed to do, kill you from far away.

Is a sniper supposed to be seen when shooting at people? No he is not.
Is a sniper supposed to be on the ground shooting at people? No he is supposed to up high somewhere so he can see the field.
Is a sniper supposed to be forced to shoot at someone within the same range as an assault rifle or rail rifle can reach you at? No because the you are to close and easy to kill.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 330	Posted - 2014.08.18 21:22:00 - [1] - Quote lol, i actually like the idea of the thales and the charge having the same scope, it will allow me to change to a stronger rifle without needing to change my tactics to adjust to a zoom that is too powerful for my preferred spots. (don't worry fellow snipers i'm relatively sure i'm a minority there.) but the new reticule is inaccurate for them all anyway. just think it's funny as one of the very few who would of liked it, i have 0 thales anyway and since 1.1 have only ever had 12. gotta love irony haven't you. now to get some thales.. i'll try the player market i guess..
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 331	Posted - 2014.08.18 21:34:00 - [2] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: lol, i actually like the idea of the thales and the charge having the same scope, it will allow me to change to a stronger rifle without needing to change my tactics to adjust to a zoom that is too powerful for my preferred spots. (don't worry fellow snipers i'm relatively sure i'm a minority there.) but the new reticule is inaccurate for them all anyway. just think it's funny as one of the very few who would of liked it, i have 0 thales anyway and since 1.1 have only ever had 12. gotta love irony haven't you. now to get some thales.. i'll try the player market i guess.. If it makes you feel any better, I have 71 and I don't ever plan on using them. Edit: I could if I wanted though. I hope that makes you feel good. o7 lol. cheers bud, i really appreciated that.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 331	Posted - 2014.08.18 22:06:00 - [3] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I have received several complaints that the Thale's is completely unusable in closer ranges because of the zoom to the point that the only way to use a Thale's properly WAS to be in the redline. As for what my fellow said I think adjusting the zoom is by far a more optimal solution to bringing them out of the redline a bit without nerfing the range. and i didn't even complain about folks, honest.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 333	Posted - 2014.08.19 16:38:00 - [4] - Quote 843-Vika wrote: Nobinishi wrote: There is more reward and little to no risk involved with the Thale's if you even compare it with other officer weapons used in the game. Plus, on many occasions people who use it are armor and shield stack up to their eyeballs when using it in some god forsaken place in the redline. Rarely a counter for it (and let's exclude another Thale sniper to counter as a solution). It needed to be tuned down. But sensing you are unsatisfied with what CCP did , it seems you have a better solution....so let's here it. Why do people always have to cry about red line sniprs? Especially when they cry about a weapon that is ment for long range. The Thale was the only sniper rifle that you could use effectively use at the 600m range, every other sniper rifle you have to st between 300-400 meters to use effectively, and now you have to do the same with the Thale. You want another solution besides what CCP did, simple, if it is not broken, don't fix it. Snipers have always gotten dumped on for the longest time because people cry "oh i got killed by a sniper from 400m away" well guess what, that's what there supposed to do, kill you from far away. Is a sniper supposed to be seen when shooting at people? No he is not. Is a sniper supposed to be on the ground shooting at people? No he is supposed to up high somewhere so he can see the field. Is a sniper supposed to be forced to shoot at someone within the same range as an assault rifle or rail rifle can reach you at? No because the you are to close and easy to kill. There is a very simple reason for people complaining about redline snipers. it is because they do not like snipers. do not make the mistake of thinking that because it is what they sit behind it is the real and only problem.. I assure you that if the red line was removed, they would then complain about our range until that was nerfed, then they would complain that we are always going into high places until we couldn't get to them anymore, then they would complain that we always set up in positions where we can see them coming, (which is one of the issues with redlines,btw.) after all of that they would complain that we are quick scoping, and do more damage per bullet than other rifles... eventually after all of that they would say... snipers are completely useless please get rid of them. they don't care about the ballistics even though will ask for them. they will ask for our range to be reduced in order to fix red line snipers even though it would it mean red line snipers were now safe and they could of asked to change the red line mechanics (I actually put threads on here with ideas and nobody was interested-at all). they will say about how good a sniper is if he doesn't use distances, even though they will say that they don't want us to quick scope. because their problem is Snipers. on to the thales, the thales is still the most superior sniper rifle, it performs at the proto level when the proto rifles perform at advanced level. if you don't believe me take a kalakiota and headsot an amarr pro sentinel. or even a charge, with the first you will need to reload by the time you get close to a kill, with the charge they will be in cover by the time you charge your next shot. (and honestly you will even struggle with most mediums at proto level.) people can say about how well it performs at pub, but the thing is it shouldn't be getting wasted on pub matches, at pub level most players use advanced gear, (although running proto seems to be more popular now, but in pc battles everybody is proto.) it is 2 tiers higher than what should need to be used for pubs. finally on to "career" or "dedicated" snipers, to us things like position are paramount, not because of red lines and safety but because of the way sniping works relying on line of sight much more than other weapons. even if the red line was completely taken away you would still find me using the same positions i use at the moment (no they are not even mostly in the red line anyway, but some are due to map design.) which is why sometimes i'm near my enemies red line, sometimes i will go back to a position even if i just died there, (most would say it's stupid to do that, but it has it's uses.) and it's why back when people qq'd to remove some of the best positions we all said don't do it because it will increase the (at the time small issue) red line sniping. do not refer to all snipers in the same way because it is not the "snipers" you people have problems with it is the ground runners that try to retire to it.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 334	Posted - 2014.08.19 18:03:00 - [5] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Lets make a comparison here for a second-- Lets take a Thales and a Balacs AR, two of the "best" officer light weapons. Compared to the prototype variants (ishukone Sniper Rifle and Duvolle assault Rifle)-- Duvolle DPS-~500 Balac's DPS-~575 Thats a 15% damage increase right there Versus Ishukone damage-230 Thales damage-355 Thats a 54% damage increase right there... So, relative to other officer weapons, the Thales is OP even without a special attribute such as added zoom. However, with the eHP buffs all non-scout suits have gotten recently, I think its fair to give an increase to the damage of alpha weapons (Sniper, PLC, NK's, Shotgun, Breach Mass Driver, most pistols) unfortunately you just completely overlooked the fact that the proto level ishukone doesn't do proto level damage, and is completely useless in pc (where you would expect a proto rifle to damage proto level gear) I'm not saying that the difference is damage percentage wise is right, but the ishukone damage kind of needs to go up. Quote: In dust, you don't have to kill people to be useful while sniping. Most snipers have this notion that you MUST kill every target that you hit. Most snipers seem to want to easily kill people who are in proto without taking into consideration that you are sniping from far back with minimal risk and expect to 2 hit kill a 200k+ fit. true there are other things that a sniper should be doing but as you only get 50wp for kills, and 15wp (i think) for hives and uplinks it's kind of limiting what they are supposed to do Quote: In a game like dust, it would be silly to one hit kill a proto with a sniper because we have risk vs reward don't we. Sniping far back is the absolute minimum risk. How many hits would you consider reasonable in a game with risk vs reward, no bullet drop or travel time?. I know that sniping can sometimes get very little payouts so dying once can put you in a guaranteed -isk situation but its minimal risk for minimal reward. In fact the increased reward for your costly sniper is the damage it does. I'm an aggressive sniper, i snipe for kills and to aid my team, support my squad, decimate group attacks to break their momentum, destroy uplinks and hives. I'm one of the few who tries to get to the best vantage points for the situation at hand, I'm normally in a relatively exposed situation, that's how i get my kills you see so you don't believe that if i am in an exposed position, have fully skilled into sniping, taking my time to place headshots and playing as a member of a team that i should be a threat on the battlefield? i'm sorry but headshots from sniper rifles should do much more damage. they are a joke. and you say that the reward i deserve for running an expensive fit in exposed and frequently dangerous (some of my positions mean instant death on the slightest error) positions and according to your horrible idea sacrificing my isk reward is that i get to use an underpowered sniper rifle. gee thanks n.b i included your comment about ballistics here because there is a thread in these forums, i believe it was called something interesting, i'll edit it in shortly, it is a thread containing a wiki link to information about rail rifles in current day real life, here's the thing.. they have enough force to penetrate a tank when they fire at 3000m/s (in dust it's 2500) and they do not suffer from bullet drop at all for at least the first kilometer, the speed that it travels at means it arrives almost instantly, and the force from a rail gun shot would be akin to that of a bus travelling at nearly 400 miles per hour, bear in mind that it would also be a sharp projectile which would increase pressure... are you so sure you want realistic ballistics?
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 334	Posted - 2014.08.19 18:07:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: The zoom level on the Thales has not been changed, nor have any other stats. I imagine that it looks different though due to the crosshair changing in Hotfix Charlie. Interesting... i need to see this effect.. can you send me some thales tonight so that i can check this new information..