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why does everyone want to nerf assault dropships?

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emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 159	Posted - 2014.07.31 17:59:00 - [1] - Quote The role of pilot takes the (arguably) most skill of any other vehiclist in the game. All the arguments i see are "all you have to do is activate your afterburner" or 'all you pilots just run'. And to that I question you this; how does a dropship that runs manage to kill you? Just by flying in the air we presume huge risks that blue berries don't have to worry about, such as: 1) surprise forge gun 2) confined spaces 3) installations (seriously, redline installations are BS OP already) hitting you from 600 meters 4) new installation AI ( blueberries may have to be concerned about this) 5) rail tanks 6) kamikaze pilots 7) the mcc (plink.... Boom!) 8) heavies beating our shields' passive regen (i hate this, personally) 9) other, friendly pilots 10) layers and layers and layers of swarms I've died to all these things atleast once, and they are real threats that we watch out for in real time. Not only do we have to watch out for every one of those, there is no cover for us! If we get hit by a forge, our only option is to run, kill, or die. Most often you will see the run or die actions, however, once in a brave while you'll see a pilot who fighs off the threat (i'll admit, i rarely do this, ever) succesfully (even more rarely) and continue on their dropship day. So, why do those who complain do so? -- You called, sir?
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3190	Posted - 2014.07.31 18:11:00 - [2] - Quote Most of us don't actually want them nerfed, they are fine as they are. The problem with the people who complain about afterburners is that they expect AV to be as simple as Gùå Run to Supply Depot Gùå Change to AV fit Gùå ???? Gùå Profit Gùå Return to Supply Depot Gùå Continue Slaying Redberries. Alot of them who complain about after burners being used to escape, don't understand that AV is meant to be a full-time role. The only tning I will say is that both from my own experience as an ADS pilot and an AVer, afterburners will save someone even if their last rites have already been read. There are too many occasions where it would be unfair for me to survive yet I have. As it stands I don't want Dropships nerfed I simply don't think they need the propossed buff they are getting either. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3740	Posted - 2014.07.31 18:13:00 - [3] - Quote Probably because AV keeps getting nerfed. I'm all for the lower tier getting a buff for the SL, but why does the Proto have to get nerfed? "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1004	Posted - 2014.07.31 18:13:00 - [4] - Quote because if you have to come up with a whole gameplan in PC to stop one guy in a ADS the thing is OP. because when the rail on the tank had its distance nerfed the ADS should have been nerfed along with it. the rail tank used to be the real counter to an ADS without that the ADS became free to **** ground troops at will. now yes i am full aware that you can put forge guns all over the high ground to keep the ADS at bay but you can't hold letters by just focussing on one ADS. its called game play balance ether buff the swarm lock on distance, rail tank range, or nerf the ADS. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1698	Posted - 2014.07.31 18:14:00 - [5] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Most of us don't actually want them nerfed, they are fine as they are. The problem with the people who complain about afterburners is that they expect AV to be as simple as Gùå Run to Supply Depot Gùå Change to AV fit Gùå ???? Gùå Profit Gùå Return to Supply Depot Gùå Continue Slaying Redberries. Alot of them who complain about after burners being used to escape, don't understand that AV is meant to be a full-time role. The only tning I will say is that both from my own experience as an ADS pilot and an AVer, afterburners will save someone even if their last rites have already been read. There are too many occasions where it would be unfair for me to survive yet I have. As it stands I don't want Dropships nerfed I simply don't think they need the propossed buff they are getting either. My problem is they want the ungodly maneuverability and the ability to soak incoming AV fire like a HAV does. Yes your dropship is expensive. No, it should not be able to take a hit like a tank does. three shots with a proto forge. If you're a good dropship pilot it should be very hard to land that third shot. Most of the time in my experience landing two hits with an ishukone assault is easy. Getting that last killshot in is insanely hard when the pilot isn't being a blistering idiot.
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 1113	Posted - 2014.07.31 18:29:00 - [6] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: As it stands I don't want Dropships nerfed I simply don't think they need the propossed buff they are getting either. Agreed. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo 235	Posted - 2014.07.31 18:32:00 - [7] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: because if you have to come up with a whole gameplan in PC to stop one guy in a ADS the thing is OP. because when the rail on the tank had its distance nerfed the ADS should have been nerfed along with it. the rail tank used to be the real counter to an ADS without that the ADS became free to **** ground troops at will. now yes i am full aware that you can put forge guns all over the high ground to keep the ADS at bay but you can't hold letters by just focussing on one ADS. its called game play balance ether buff the swarm lock on distance, rail tank range, or nerf the ADS. Wait, you can't down a dropship without camping the redzone and being able to fire accross half the map? Can't possibly do it with the anti air missile tank then... So much brain power you must have just overlooked it, lol.
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11137	Posted - 2014.07.31 18:42:00 - [8] - Quote 1, 2, 5, and 10 are non factors unless they OHK me, and you have to be pretty careless to fall to 6 & 7. 3 is only an Issue when it's the Large Missile Installation. -HAND
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 159	Posted - 2014.07.31 18:44:00 - [9] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: My problem is they want the ungodly maneuverability and the ability to soak incoming AV fire like a HAV does. Yes your dropship is expensive. No, it should not be able to take a hit like a tank does. three shots with a proto forge. If you're a good dropship pilot it should be very hard to land that third shot. Most of the time in my experience landing two hits with an ishukone assault is easy. Getting that last killshot in is insanely hard when the pilot isn't being a blistering idiot. I'm going to take this time to point out that assault dropships have 2 less slots than standard tanks, and usually around 75% the hp. -- You called, sir?
KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 5585	Posted - 2014.07.31 18:48:00 - [10] - Quote emm kay wrote: The role of pilot takes the (arguably) most skill of any other vehiclist in the game. All the arguments i see are "all you have to do is activate your afterburner" or 'all you pilots just run'. And to that I question you this; how does a dropship that runs manage to kill you? Just by flying in the air we presume huge risks that blue berries don't have to worry about, such as: 1) surprise forge gun 2) confined spaces 3) installations (seriously, redline installations are BS OP already) hitting you from 600 meters 4) new installation AI ( blueberries may have to be concerned about this) 5) rail tanks 6) kamikaze pilots 7) the mcc (plink.... Boom!) 8) heavies beating our shields' passive regen (i hate this, personally) 9) other, friendly pilots 10) layers and layers and layers of swarms I've died to all these things atleast once, and they are real threats that we watch out for in real time. Not only do we have to watch out for every one of those, there is no cover for us! If we get hit by a forge, our only option is to run, kill, or die. Most often you will see the run or die actions, however, once in a brave while you'll see a pilot who fighs off the threat (i'll admit, i rarely do this, ever) succesfully (even more rarely) and continue on their dropship day. So, why do those who complain do so? I dont really think ADS need nerf. The need a limiter same as tanks.Its a different issue. There shouldnt be more than 2 ADS per team... a Good ADS pilot can simply wrecka whole team while not getting killed once unless coordinated proto AVERS attack. But the ADS ITSELF is ok. Hell, might even need a buff. The best Damage mod is a HEADSHOT....

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1700	Posted - 2014.07.31 20:47:00 - [11] - Quote emm kay wrote: 8) heavies beating our shields' passive regen (i hate this, personally) What's the goddamn point of having an anti-vehicle weapon if it can't kill the vehicle? You're mad that a forge gun can break your passive shield regen??? You have lost all credibility as a fair assessor of balance in any way. The door is that way. ---->
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 159	Posted - 2014.07.31 21:04:00 - [12] - Quote emm kay wrote: The role of pilot takes the (arguably) most skill of any other vehiclist in the game. All the arguments i see are "all you have to do is activate your afterburner" or 'all you pilots just run'. And to that I question you this; how does a dropship that runs manage to kill you? Just by flying in the air we presume huge risks that blue berries don't have to worry about, such as: 1) surprise forge gun 2) confined spaces 3) installations (seriously, redline installations are BS OP already) hitting you from 600 meters 4) new installation AI ( blueberries may have to be concerned about this) 5) rail tanks 6) kamikaze pilots 7) the mcc (plink.... Boom!) 8) heavies beating our shields' passive regen (i hate this, personally) 9) other, friendly pilots 10) layers and layers and layers of swarms I've died to all these things atleast once, and they are real threats that we watch out for in real time. Not only do we have to watch out for every one of those, there is no cover for us! If we get hit by a forge, our only option is to run, kill, or die. Most often you will see the run or die actions, however, once in a brave while you'll see a pilot who fighs off the threat (i'll admit, i rarely do this, ever) succesfully (even more rarely) and continue on their dropship day. So, why do those who complain do so? Don't firget we have to fly sort of low to see our targets... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 159	Posted - 2014.07.31 21:04:00 - [13] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: emm kay wrote: 8) heavies beating our shields' passive regen (i hate this, personally) What's the goddamn point of having an anti-vehicle weapon if it can't kill the vehicle? You're mad that a forge gun can break your passive shield regen??? You have lost all credibility as a fair assessor of balance in any way. The door is that way. ----> He means the foty hmg, 99% of heavies use it. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 159	Posted - 2014.07.31 21:06:00 - [14] - Quote Atiim wrote: 1, 2, 5, and 10 are non factors unless they OHK me, and you have to be pretty careless to fall to 6 & 7. 3 is only an Issue when it's the Large Missile Installation. I once saw an enemy dropship explode 30m above his mcc...glitch514 at its finest. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12438	Posted - 2014.07.31 21:14:00 - [15] - Quote emm kay wrote: The role of pilot takes the (arguably) most skill of any other vehiclist in the game. All the arguments i see are "all you have to do is activate your afterburner" or 'all you pilots just run'. And to that I question you this; how does a dropship that runs manage to kill you? Just by flying in the air we presume huge risks that blue berries don't have to worry about, such as: 1) surprise forge gun 2) confined spaces 3) installations (seriously, redline installations are BS OP already) hitting you from 600 meters 4) new installation AI ( blueberries may have to be concerned about this) 5) rail tanks 6) kamikaze pilots 7) the mcc (plink.... Boom!) 8) heavies beating our shields' passive regen (i hate this, personally) 9) other, friendly pilots 10) layers and layers and layers of swarms I've died to all these things atleast once, and they are real threats that we watch out for in real time. Not only do we have to watch out for every one of those, there is no cover for us! If we get hit by a forge, our only option is to run, kill, or die. Most often you will see the run or die actions, however, once in a brave while you'll see a pilot who fighs off the threat (i'll admit, i rarely do this, ever) succesfully (even more rarely) and continue on their dropship day. So, why do those who complain do so? Not really. It's really the same role except you have slightly less EHP and can fly. 1.)Every vehiclist deals with surprise AV, don't pretend like you are special. 2.)Tanker have to deal with that too 3.)Yes I deal with Redline Rails too 4.)Again I deal with that and now have significantly less accurate blasters as compared to the turrets dead eye shooting 5.)Uh Duh..... Rail Tanks primary role is to bust other HAV, come off it mate 6.)JLAV except they are far more common and easier to pull off. 7.) Yeah fine I don't have to deal with a giant floating ship that fills half the skies...I stay on the map 8.) Can't argue with that 9.)Yeah Tankers can be dumb sobs as well 10.) If you think players hate ADS..... you should have seen their raging hardons when I drop tanks... Lets not pretend like you have a swarthe of "personal issues" that other vehiclists don't........ emm kay wrote: there is no cover for us! If we get hit by a forge, our only option is to run, kill, or die Oh good ******* lord mate...... "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Patrick57 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7935	Posted - 2014.07.31 21:15:00 - [16] - Quote Assault dropships are fine as they are, IMO. Buffs and nerfs are unnecessary at this point. King Thunderbolt is my number one fan.
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 1972	Posted - 2014.07.31 22:38:00 - [17] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Probably because AV keeps getting nerfed. I'm all for the lower tier getting a buff for the SL, but why does the Proto have to get nerfed? That while all HAVs and Dropships got massively buffed last Winter. Once someone is sitting in Nerfsville the only logic left is how to drag in the other guy who put you there. A major theme of 2013 was defined by a concentrated effort by a few people to get all infantry AV junked. In general I tried to warn people about the evils of nerfing early as Open Beta with obvious failure. Two reasoning errors pretty much killed progress: Nerfing one item to bring it in line is simple and therefor better than setting parameters of how you define the battlefield and going from there. The Flaylock nerfing is a great example of how something that was supposed to be a fix was just a curb stomping nerf, the changes should have been a redesign so that it would fit in the intended role. It was impossible to use nerfing to change it in a manner that was still useful if people were complaining about that very use of it in the first place. An analogy would be, "Someone is grossed out at you using chopsticks to eat ramen so at your next meal they are replaced with cooking skewers. Wouldn't a Chinese Spoon have made more sense since drinking the broth still required lifting the bowl?" Lack of coherent definition. Things that exist but have very little or no use. That was the conundrum many regular DS pilots were having all last year. They read the description and thought it was going to be a rewarding battle taxi job. In the end it was a taxi but only for getting to elevated inaccessible area, little/no rewards for the pilot like other occupations either. A few did pull off the proto Small Missile glass cannons but it was a hard path. The funny irony about this is weapons like Fprge Guns and Swarm Launchers are in the same place Dropships were most of last year. The sad part is the waves-of-oppurtunity concept could have worked (or at least had a good start) if the Devs could have refrained from nerfing defeat from the jaws of success. Things would go a lot smoother if we had clear design roles and expectations. The Assault Dropships risk verse reward is skewered. When people run around in Dropsuits have a measure of our Tank, Damage, and Mobility. Right now Assault Dropships can potentially get all three very high while the rest of us have to make choices. Frankly I don't want ADS nerfs or AV buffs. I believe wholeheartedly nothing is going to get better since some people in our community won't allow it and the management of CCP will end up prevent everything else. Just get me in a game mode where there are no vehicles and I don't have to pull out a FG on my Sentinel. Let me ride that wave until Legion drops and CCP's FPS can disappear into internet obscurity. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4813	Posted - 2014.07.31 22:42:00 - [18] - Quote Patrick57 and I deployed our ADS into a Domination : I was at the other ground spawn flying over to patrick. Patrick was picking up squad mates. Then, out of nowhere, in our own redline, a kamikaze pilot blazes out of nowhere and takes out patrick. It was funny as **** but just goes to show the ultimate low blows pilots must deal with. Light Weapon AV may be underperforming against DS but all other forms are very viable. Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12443	Posted - 2014.07.31 22:51:00 - [19] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Patrick57 and I deployed our ADS into a Domination : I was at the other ground spawn flying over to patrick. Patrick was picking up squad mates. Then, out of nowhere, in our own redline, a kamikaze pilot blazes out of nowhere and takes out patrick. It was funny as ** but just goes to show the ultimate low blows pilots must deal with. Light Weapon AV may be underperforming against DS but all other forms are very viable. Boo ***** hoo Bojo. It's exactly the same as having to deal with JLAV's as a tanker. And I get told by people to HTFU about it, because lol double standard...... HTFU "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4813	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:01:00 - [20] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Patrick57 and I deployed our ADS into a Domination : I was at the other ground spawn flying over to patrick. Patrick was picking up squad mates. Then, out of nowhere, in our own redline, a kamikaze pilot blazes out of nowhere and takes out patrick. It was funny as ** but just goes to show the ultimate low blows pilots must deal with. Light Weapon AV may be underperforming against DS but all other forms are very viable. Boo ***** hoo Bojo. It's exactly the same as having to deal with JLAV's as a tanker. And I get told by people to HTFU about it, because lol double standard...... HTFU Not really the same but I'll let you throw mud I've been in need of a makeover after all Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12443	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:02:00 - [21] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: True Adamance wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Patrick57 and I deployed our ADS into a Domination : I was at the other ground spawn flying over to patrick. Patrick was picking up squad mates. Then, out of nowhere, in our own redline, a kamikaze pilot blazes out of nowhere and takes out patrick. It was funny as ** but just goes to show the ultimate low blows pilots must deal with. Light Weapon AV may be underperforming against DS but all other forms are very viable. Boo ***** hoo Bojo. It's exactly the same as having to deal with JLAV's as a tanker. And I get told by people to HTFU about it, because lol double standard...... HTFU Not really the same but I'll let you throw mud I've been in need of a makeover after all It's exactly the same. A fast vehicle ploughs into the side of your significantly more expensive vehicle with the purpose of instantly destroying you.....except in JLAVers cases most of the time they have BPO's. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2667	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:06:00 - [22] - Quote True that grammar in your sig. Tanker/Logi/Assault
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11142	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:10:00 - [23] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: True Adamance wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Patrick57 and I deployed our ADS into a Domination : I was at the other ground spawn flying over to patrick. Patrick was picking up squad mates. Then, out of nowhere, in our own redline, a kamikaze pilot blazes out of nowhere and takes out patrick. It was funny as ** but just goes to show the ultimate low blows pilots must deal with. Light Weapon AV may be underperforming against DS but all other forms are very viable. Boo ***** hoo Bojo. It's exactly the same as having to deal with JLAV's as a tanker. And I get told by people to HTFU about it, because lol double standard...... HTFU Not really the same but I'll let you throw mud I've been in need of a makeover after all It's exactly the same. A fast vehicle ploughs into the side of your significantly more expensive vehicle with the purpose of instantly destroying you.....except in JLAVers cases most of the time they have BPO's. In the case of Kamikaze DS vs Assault Dropships, the ADS has significantly better speed and acceleration, so I wouldn't really say "fast vehicle". Other than that, your pretty spot on. Introducing 'Hotfix Charlie' Assault Dropships: New Eden's first line of SHAVs -HAND
Miokai Zahou The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 363	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:12:00 - [24] - Quote ADS quite frankly needed the buff especially the python considering how it's hit box is broken and most dangers come from invisible swarm users or that non - rendered forge shot that just so happens to take out the shields without any notification at all. Yes ADS needed the buff because rendering and hit detection just plain sucks. Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12447	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:13:00 - [25] - Quote Atiim wrote: True Adamance wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: True Adamance wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Patrick57 and I deployed our ADS into a Domination : I was at the other ground spawn flying over to patrick. Patrick was picking up squad mates. Then, out of nowhere, in our own redline, a kamikaze pilot blazes out of nowhere and takes out patrick. It was funny as ** but just goes to show the ultimate low blows pilots must deal with. Light Weapon AV may be underperforming against DS but all other forms are very viable. Boo *** hoo Bojo. It's exactly the same as having to deal with JLAV's as a tanker. And I get told by people to HTFU about it, because lol double standard...... HTFU Not really the same but I'll let you throw mud I've been in need of a makeover after all It's exactly the same. A fast vehicle ploughs into the side of your significantly more expensive vehicle with the purpose of instantly destroying you.....except in JLAVers cases most of the time they have BPO's. In the case of Kamikaze DS vs Assault Dropships, the ADS has significantly better speed and acceleration, so I wouldn't really say "fast vehicle". Other than that, your pretty spot on. Okay so ADS have one less reason to *** about it. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4814	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:18:00 - [26] - Quote True Adamance wrote: It's exactly the same. A fast vehicle ploughs into the side of your significantly more expensive vehicle with the purpose of instantly destroying you.....except in JLAVers cases most of the time they have BPO's. It's not because an armor hardened gorgon can ram a Python and still survive. ADS also waaaaaaay more expensive than an HAV as of right now. Charlie will make a difference in that argument but no one knows the price adjustment. Seeing as how HAVs do not suffer from collision damage as severe as shield dropships and the HP disparity between an HAV and an LAV is much larger than MLT DS versus ADS you are talking about at least a chance to fend off the assailant. At least a chance. Honestly against everything else HAVs have it relatively easy by comparison to dropship mechanics. Both JLAVs and KDS are bullshit tactics but they are not the same in sense. Also my squad has been the victim of JLAV v. Methana so it's not as if JLAVs don't go beyond HAVs. YEAH, someone suicide LAVd another LAV because they couldn't kill it otherwise. It's not like I haven't been the victim of both. Just as long as the dice keep rollin, the hoes keep hoein, and the money keeps flowin!
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12449	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:31:00 - [27] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: True Adamance wrote: It's exactly the same. A fast vehicle ploughs into the side of your significantly more expensive vehicle with the purpose of instantly destroying you.....except in JLAVers cases most of the time they have BPO's. It's not because an armor hardened gorgon can ram a Python and still survive. ADS also waaaaaaay more expensive than an HAV as of right now. Charlie will make a difference in that argument but no one knows the price adjustment. Seeing as how HAVs do not suffer from collision damage as severe as shield dropships and the HP disparity between an HAV and an LAV is much larger than MLT DS versus ADS you are talking about at least a chance to fend off the assailant. At least a chance. Honestly against everything else HAVs have it relatively easy by comparison to dropship mechanics. Both JLAVs and KDS are bullshit tactics but they are not the same in sense. Also my squad has been the victim of JLAV v. Methana so it's not as if JLAVs don't go beyond HAVs. YEAH, someone suicide LAVd another LAV because they couldn't kill it otherwise. It's not like I haven't been the victim of both. Really? I see them roughly costing the same amount. 323K ISK Hull + Turrets (if you use them) +Modules 200K ISK Hull +281K ISK Large Turret + Small Turrets (If you use them) + Modules (we have more slots) By my reckoning the cost roughly the same amount. But lets not talk about costs.... I remember when my tanks cost 1.5+ Million ISK to even field. "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3642	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:31:00 - [28] - Quote Because its the last vehicle to get a nerf Hotfix alpha and bravo nerfed the ground tanks more in general, now its time for aerial vehicles
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2668	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:36:00 - [29] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: True Adamance wrote: It's exactly the same. A fast vehicle ploughs into the side of your significantly more expensive vehicle with the purpose of instantly destroying you.....except in JLAVers cases most of the time they have BPO's. It's not because an armor hardened gorgon can ram a Python and still survive. ADS also waaaaaaay more expensive than an HAV as of right now. Charlie will make a difference in that argument but no one knows the price adjustment. Seeing as how HAVs do not suffer from collision damage as severe as shield dropships and the HP disparity between an HAV and an LAV is much larger than MLT DS versus ADS you are talking about at least a chance to fend off the assailant. At least a chance. Honestly against everything else HAVs have it relatively easy by comparison to dropship mechanics. Both JLAVs and KDS are bullshit tactics but they are not the same in sense. Also my squad has been the victim of JLAV v. Methana so it's not as if JLAVs don't go beyond HAVs. YEAH, someone suicide LAVd another LAV because they couldn't kill it otherwise. It's not like I haven't been the victim of both. JLAV'ing an LAV is kind of pointless unless their using a Gastun's I find Proximities are actually quite effective though occasionally I'll strap boundless RE's to shield LAV and laugh as the Brick tanked Gallante Heavy with a boundless tries to ram my LAV with his Armor LAV to blow me up and continue doing his B*tch tactic unimpeded. Tanker/Logi/Assault
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2669	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:51:00 - [30] - Quote Examples of Effective tank fittings https://zkillboard.com/kill/39655789/ https://zkillboard.com/kill/38506926/ Examples of Effective ADS fittings https://zkillboard.com/kill/40252017/ https://zkillboard.com/kill/38373852/ You can see the Prices are not all that different The ADS being only slightly more expensive. Tanker/Logi/Assault

Zindorak 1.U.P 205	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:53:00 - [31] - Quote emm kay wrote: The role of pilot takes the (arguably) most skill of any other vehiclist in the game. All the arguments i see are "all you have to do is activate your afterburner" or 'all you pilots just run'. And to that I question you this; how does a dropship that runs manage to kill you? Just by flying in the air we presume huge risks that blue berries don't have to worry about, such as: 1) surprise forge gun 2) confined spaces 3) installations (seriously, redline installations are BS OP already) hitting you from 600 meters 4) new installation AI ( blueberries may have to be concerned about this) 5) rail tanks 6) kamikaze pilots 7) the mcc (plink.... Boom!) 8) heavies beating our shields' passive regen (i hate this, personally) 9) other, friendly pilots 10) layers and layers and layers of swarms I've died to all these things atleast once, and they are real threats that we watch out for in real time. Not only do we have to watch out for every one of those, there is no cover for us! If we get hit by a forge, our only option is to run, kill, or die. Most often you will see the run or die actions, however, once in a brave while you'll see a pilot who fighs off the threat (i'll admit, i rarely do this, ever) succesfully (even more rarely) and continue on their dropship day. So, why do those who complain do so? Yea this i love u op. you know the feels Master of the Scrambler Pistol. Carthum Assault ScP <3
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 160	Posted - 2014.07.31 23:54:00 - [32] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Because its the last vehicle to get a nerf Hotfix alpha and bravo nerfed the ground tanks more in general, now its time for aerial vehicles Even though they don't need it. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 160	Posted - 2014.08.01 03:26:00 - [33] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Not really. It's really the same role except you have slightly less EHP and can fly. 1.)Every vehiclist deals with surprise AV, don't pretend like you are special. 2.)Tanker have to deal with that too 3.)Yes I deal with Redline Rails too 4.)Again I deal with that and now have significantly less accurate blasters as compared to the turrets dead eye shooting 5.)Uh Duh..... Rail Tanks primary role is to bust other HAV, come off it mate 6.)JLAV except they are far more common and easier to pull off. 7.) Yeah fine I don't have to deal with a giant floating ship that fills half the skies...I stay on the map 8.) Can't argue with that 9.)Yeah Tankers can be dumb sobs as well 10.) If you think players hate ADS..... you should have seen their raging hardons when I drop tanks... Lets not pretend like you have a swarthe of "personal issues" that other vehiclists don't........ emm kay wrote: there is no cover for us! If we get hit by a forge, our only option is to run, kill, or die Oh good ******* lord mate...... 1) tank: get behind wall ADS: run. 2)tank: GO BACKWARDS. it's simple. ADS: ??? 3)I was refrencing missile instalations 4) what? 5) ADS != HAV 6) lies. any (seasoned) MLT pilot knows that if you see an assault dropship, you're now kamikaze. 7) they are on the map... 9) tankers don't kill you with the slightest tap..... 10)because they're easier to kill? 11) you're not looking for all of this at the same time. you've got cover, intel, and above all, HITPOINTS. it's not me. Its ALL other pilots -- You called, sir?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3479	Posted - 2014.08.01 04:21:00 - [34] - Quote emm kay wrote: So, why do those who complain do so? Dumped SP into Swarm Proficiency so I could do my part against 1.7 vehicle spam. All maxed out and ready to rumble, I was a 'bit perturbed to find that ADS after ADS could fly directly at me once engaged, eat multiple volleys of my max-skill-cmp-dmg-amp'd-proto AV, then OHK me anyway. If you think that required "skill" on the part of the pilot, then you should've seen Mario Kart back in the day. That game was tough. Bananas and bombs allover the place, and everyone fought on equal footing. Craziness. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Dauth Jenkins Merc-0107 555	Posted - 2014.08.01 04:27:00 - [35] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: because if you have to come up with a whole gameplan in PC to stop one guy in a ADS the thing is OP. because when the rail on the tank had its distance nerfed the ADS should have been nerfed along with it. the rail tank used to be the real counter to an ADS without that the ADS became free to **** ground troops at will. now yes i am full aware that you can put forge guns all over the high ground to keep the ADS at bay but you can't hold letters by just focussing on one ADS. its called game play balance ether buff the swarm lock on distance, rail tank range, or nerf the ADS. If you have 1 commando in your squad running swarms, you will have few problems with ADS. While you may not kill it, you will keep it out of the fight. -Sincerely --The Dual Swarm Commando
Riptalis Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 48	Posted - 2014.08.01 08:17:00 - [36] - Quote ADS need a price drop. We all know it. You might not completely agree but it's true. Nice to be back on ADS forums, yay! Logistics ak.0 ADS Pilot PSN: Riptalis
deezy dabest IMPERIAL SPECIAL FORCES GROUP 816	Posted - 2014.08.01 08:43:00 - [37] - Quote Even tho they will likely still get poped right at the start buffing installations is a nerf to ADS and an even bigger nerf to hoping for someone useful in pubs. Nothing makes me happier than watching blueberries shooting a wall so no one can take their installation. Just remove the things instead. Matches are all fine with them having been popped in the first 2 minutes every time except for some tanker having half an orbital.
Death Shadow117 New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 173	Posted - 2014.08.01 09:40:00 - [38] - Quote Because people get killed by an ads once and they freak the ** out. I ads too and yes it does require alot of skill to do and alot of isk to learn. Tanks cost a bag of compared to what they used too and the ads hull is the most expensive thing in this game. When will ads's cost a bag of ** to what they are now CCP? What?
Death Shadow117 New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 173	Posted - 2014.08.01 10:09:00 - [39] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Patrick57 and I deployed our ADS into a Domination : I was at the other ground spawn flying over to patrick. Patrick was picking up squad mates. Then, out of nowhere, in our own redline, a kamikaze pilot blazes out of nowhere and takes out patrick. It was funny as ** but just goes to show the ultimate low blows pilots must deal with. Light Weapon AV may be underperforming against DS but all other forms are very viable. Boo ***** hoo Bojo. It's exactly the same as having to deal with JLAV's as a tanker. And I get told by people to HTFU about it, because lol double standard...... HTFU Yeah i fly and ads and they are not exactly the same. As in a jihad jeep cant put re's on the bottom/top of it and land/fly up and hit your tank. But jlav's are more common than kds's but ill say that if your in an ads against me be ready to be particle cannoned. What?
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3648	Posted - 2014.08.01 10:25:00 - [40] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Because its the last vehicle to get a nerf Hotfix alpha and bravo nerfed the ground tanks more in general, now its time for aerial vehicles Even though they don't need it. But thats infantry for you If its still usable its OP so it must be nerfed into the ***** ground and this is for ***** pubs, in PC basically all vehicles are useless maybe barring the ADS if the pilot is damn good

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 164	Posted - 2014.08.01 10:51:00 - [41] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Because its the last vehicle to get a nerf Hotfix alpha and bravo nerfed the ground tanks more in general, now its time for aerial vehicles Even though they don't need it. But thats infantry for you If its still usable its OP so it must be nerfed into the ***** ground and this is for ***** pubs, in PC basically all vehicles are useless maybe barring the ADS if the pilot is damn good No it's not infantry It's nerf514 It killed me it's op514 Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 241	Posted - 2014.08.01 12:46:00 - [42] - Quote They dont need buffs aswell. Gunlogi have lower shields than maddy, why python will have same shields as incubus armor? Stop be so dramatic. If you will get shoot, you just need to activate after burner and fly away. Then go back from other side. Tanks cost same as ADS and Tank is way easier to destory. Once you stop for like 0,5sec, they will put remotes on you. 1shoot from swarms/fg and youre done. About hiding from AV. You have whole sky, simply hold trigger to fly up. We cant outrun swarms and they do 90-¦ turns over covers. Once again, dont be so dramatic -~-~-Caldari Loyalist-~-~- Markiplier fan. Hollywood Undead ,rocks.
Everything Dies BIKINI BOTTOM BRIGADE 876	Posted - 2014.08.01 14:14:00 - [43] - Quote At this point in time, I've made peace with the fact that a decent ADS pilot will completely dominate the battle; what I want to see fixed, however, is their ability to be the best slayers out there. Get rid of the RoF bonus for assault ships and see where that takes us. Seriously, when I'm in my tank my biggest fear isn't AV or other tanks--it's the d*mn ADS pilots that can hover above me and take me out in a matter of two seconds. Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof: Listen
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 759	Posted - 2014.08.01 14:27:00 - [44] - Quote Miokai Zahou wrote: ADS quite frankly needed the buff especially the python considering how it's hit box is broken and most dangers come from invisible swarm users or that non - rendered forge shot that just so happens to take out the shields without any notification at all. Yes ADS needed the buff because rendering and hit detection just plain sucks. Yes, buff stuff because of **** mechanics. I love when they do that. It makes so much sense that it makes my face hurt. Who farted?
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3200	Posted - 2014.08.01 14:39:00 - [45] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Because its the last vehicle to get a nerf Hotfix alpha and bravo nerfed the ground tanks more in general, now its time for aerial vehicles You also forget to mention AV has been progressively nerfed since 1.8. 1) Change to damage profile (15% across the board nerf) 2) Chmange to damage mods (5% nerf per module - about 12% across the board nerf) 3) Swarm Launcher lock-on range 4) FG damage 5) AV grenade capacity 6) Increased AV nanite cost In return we got 1) AV grenade buff (still not as good as 3 grenades) 2) Plasma Cannon buff (still useless) And exactly how much have you lost? 1) 15% Active Hardener Resistance 2) 20 HP/s Armour Rep Rate 3) 60% blaster accuracy 4) A bit of rail turret range QQ moar, for balance! They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1733	Posted - 2014.08.01 14:46:00 - [46] - Quote I would wager to say the real problems assault dropship pilots face, at least python pilots, is randomized collision damage, gunner's exploding for no reason, and rendering issues. Oh and rdvs
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3656	Posted - 2014.08.01 14:51:00 - [47] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Because its the last vehicle to get a nerf Hotfix alpha and bravo nerfed the ground tanks more in general, now its time for aerial vehicles You also forget to mention AV has been progressively nerfed since 1.8. 1) Change to damage profile (15% across the board nerf) 2) Chmange to damage mods (5% nerf per module - about 12% across the board nerf) 3) Swarm Launcher lock-on range 4) FG damage 5) AV grenade capacity 6) Increased AV nanite cost In return we got 1) AV grenade buff (still not as good as 3 grenades) 2) Plasma Cannon buff (still useless) And exactly how much have you lost? 1) 15% Active Hardener Resistance 2) 20 HP/s Armour Rep Rate 3) 60% blaster accuracy 4) A bit of rail turret range QQ moar, for balance! SL can still fire its entire clip in less than 4seconds with missiles that travel around corners are sometimes invisible and can hit to 400m which require 0 aim or skill FG damage/SL damage hasnt really changes since all hardeners got a nerf AV nades change to stop spam, they still require no aim and never miss PLC buff happened increase of ppl using it but again requires aim which 99% dont have Vehicles have lost skills, modules, hulls, turrets slots aswell as accuracy on blasters so you can no longer defend yourself, rail range because muh DS for ppl who cant fly, armor rep rate because i cant solo it with militia, hardner nerf because it did its job, railgun OH because why not, railgun refire speed because why not, overdrive nerf because it worked, afterburner nerf because it does its job, damage mod nerf because it does its job AV got nerfed get ****** all its had is buffs while vehicles have got less of everything and that is a fact
DontChimpOut Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 49	Posted - 2014.08.01 15:02:00 - [48] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: I would wager to say the real problems assault dropship pilots face, at least python pilots, is randomized collision damage, gunner's exploding for no reason, and rendering issues. Oh and rdvs Don't forget the people that say "no fun allowed" and either tap a Python with their Incubus, or those that ram at full speed with a Gorgon, who somehow pilot their little MLT ship as if it were an ADS.
The True Inferno Myrmidon Syndicate 45	Posted - 2014.08.01 15:27:00 - [49] - Quote All I ask is them to fix the blaster turrets, so I can finally use them like a minigun on my Dropships, for gunning and ADSing. ScP = GÖÑ Recent fat scout (sentinel w/shotty and cin-cats)
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3201	Posted - 2014.08.01 15:51:00 - [50] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Because its the last vehicle to get a nerf Hotfix alpha and bravo nerfed the ground tanks more in general, now its time for aerial vehicles You also forget to mention AV has been progressively nerfed since 1.8. 1) Change to damage profile (15% across the board nerf) 2) Chmange to damage mods (5% nerf per module - about 12% across the board nerf) 3) Swarm Launcher lock-on range 4) FG damage 5) AV grenade capacity 6) Increased AV nanite cost In return we got 1) AV grenade buff (still not as good as 3 grenades) 2) Plasma Cannon buff (still useless) And exactly how much have you lost? 1) 15% Active Hardener Resistance 2) 20 HP/s Armour Rep Rate 3) 60% blaster accuracy 4) A bit of rail turret range QQ moar, for balance! SL can still fire its entire clip in less than 4seconds with missiles that travel around corners are sometimes invisible and can hit to 400m which require 0 aim or skill Yes because it's not like AVers have to consider where to be placed when attacking, what path the swarms will travel, swarms have stopped the going round corners buisness for absolute ages. Your just poor at avoiding them. FG damage/SL damage hasnt really changes since all hardeners got a nerf Both were done in 1.8, so that kinda null and void since, hardeners also haven't been nerfed further since the proficency skill changes and damage mod nerfs AV nades change to stop spam, they still require no aim and never miss Spam? So I'm not allowed to lob 3 AV grenades at tank sitting 10m from me?, AV grenades lost more from that grenade then the slight buff they were given back PLC buff happened increase of ppl using it but again requires aim which 99% dont have Plc buff happened and everyone went to have a look, including my self, it is still poor because the damage just doesn't stack up. It's still not viable as an Anti-Tank weapon Vehicles have lost skills, modules, hulls, turrets slots aswell as accuracy on blasters so you can no longer defend yourself, Can't defend yourself? Yet this fitting: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6018 will take 6 PRO swarm launcher, without taking into account it's hardeners and repping, it also comes equipepdd with a scanner and fuel injector. If your having trouble surviving in that kind of fit I suggest you reevaluate how you pilot your tank. Futhermore they do intend to give them back when vehicles are in a balanced state. Rail range because muh DS for ppl who cant fly, or because you all sat in the redline like incredibly scrubby snipers armor rep rate because i cant solo it with militia, Yes of course because repping at well over 300 HP/s faster than the DPS of AV isn't broken at all. Hardner nerf because it did its job, because achieving 98% damage resistance isn't at all broken railgun OH because why not, railgun refire speed because why not, tankers complained about railgun DPS because we all got in tanks to kill you, like you wanted thank Spkr for that one overdrive nerf because it worked, afterburner nerf because it does its job, Yes because I'm sure tanks should be driving as fast as LAV's damage mod nerf because it does its job Tankers complained about that because we fitted out damage mod tanks to kill you, like you suggested AV got nerfed get **** all its had is buffs while vehicles have got less of everything and that is a fact Yes because in the rebalance we lost Direct Damage to the Forge Gun Swarm Launcher lock-on speed Profciency Changes + Damage Mod changes equalling a 28% nerf to AV damage output across the board. Forge guns that wouldn't fire. (Bug) Damage Mods that didn't effect damage (Bug) You spent all of 1.8 telling us to get in tanks to kill you, me Atiim and every other AVer followed your advice and fit Damage Mod Railguns to take you out. You have spent your entire time in this game complaining, because a skilled AVer managed to take you solo a half dozen times. Prehaps if you didn't insist on tanks and vehicles being overpowered and require half a teams woth of proto to scratch the paintwork you might more people actually prepared to have reasonable discussions. AV and Vehicles have both been progressively nerfed since the orginal rebalance. Not to mention they are getting nerfed again in Charlie. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3

Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1733	Posted - 2014.08.01 16:35:00 - [51] - Quote DontChimpOut wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: I would wager to say the real problems assault dropship pilots face, at least python pilots, is randomized collision damage, gunner's exploding for no reason, and rendering issues. Oh and rdvs Don't forget the people that say "no fun allowed" and either tap a Python with their Incubus, or those that ram at full speed with a Gorgon, who somehow pilot their little MLT ship as if it were an ADS. Suicide dropships aren't uniquely an ads problem. Tanks have to look out for JLAVs and lav's have to watch out for tanks tapping them. JLAVs are more fare in comparison because if you shoot one of the remotes they explode and you have to be going at a fast speed to trigger the explosion, its not based solely on touch.
taxi bastard jihad taxi co. 174	Posted - 2014.08.01 16:51:00 - [52] - Quote I can counter everything else in game with my own skill - tanks and suits ADS - I have to hope the pilot makes a big mistake or the best I can do is contain him. this is not balance so it needs to be addressed, and this is why ADS and/or some modules need to be changed.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1011	Posted - 2014.08.01 17:13:00 - [53] - Quote It sounds like Spkr and Takahiro and their arguments about tanks. An ADS pilot is one player. What do you think the average kdr is for a Python pilot. 1.0? Who wins 1 vs. 1 with a Python and AV 90% of the time? For every potential danger an ADS pilot faces, the opposing ground AV faces 3 or 4 or more. The sole viable argument is ISK cost and the arguments about balancing around ISK are already well known. All vehicles are still OP by any objective standard but almost all of us have learned to make peace with that. I think we have achieved an acceptable compromise regarding balance, one I think that the proposed buff to dropships and nerf to proto swarms threatens. My advice is fix collision damage, bring down the price but for gid's sake don't buff the ADS. Because, that's why.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo 237	Posted - 2014.08.01 17:16:00 - [54] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: They dont need buffs aswell. Gunlogi have lower shields than maddy, why python will have same shields as incubus armor? Stop be so dramatic. If you will get shoot, you just need to activate after burner and fly away. Then go back from other side. Tanks cost same as ADS and Tank is way easier to destory. Once you stop for like 0,5sec, they will put remotes on you. 1shoot from swarms/fg and youre done. About hiding from AV. You have whole sky, simply hold trigger to fly up. We cant outrun swarms and they do 90-¦ turns over covers. Once again, dont be so dramatic As someone who both tanks and pilots I can say avoiding swarms is actually much easier in ground vehicles, simply a small mound will block the strike and if fired from above you turbo forwards and most hit the ground... In the Bus you can only outrun them with afterburner on (definately not flying up as that is too slow) this is without any added armour, they always fly around objects no matter how long ago they were damn well shot (and this is a problem for all vehicles because frankly driving/flying behind a building should block them, shouldn't have to rely on making them hit the floor.) As for the massive shield buff on the Python, it's stupid... Can't be anything more than python pilots bitching about being downed by small rails, which is surely a small rail/rof bonus problem... Now the Python will easily kill it's target with enough time to fly away. honestly I want the ads rof bonuses gone, they are not balanced and are not needed, I didn't even skill into them for a long time and it's still easy enough to kill a forge gunner without missile speed as it is also easy to down a tank without the rof bonus for rails.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3657	Posted - 2014.08.01 17:34:00 - [55] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: SL can still fire its entire clip in less than 4seconds with missiles that travel around corners are sometimes invisible and can hit to 400m which require 0 aim or skill Yes because it's not like AVers have to consider where to be placed when attacking, what path the swarms will travel, swarms have stopped the going round corners buisness for absolute ages. Your just poor at avoiding them. FG damage/SL damage hasnt really changes since all hardeners got a nerf Both were done in 1.8, so that kinda null and void since, hardeners also haven't been nerfed further since the proficency skill changes and damage mod nerfs AV nades change to stop spam, they still require no aim and never miss Spam? So I'm not allowed to lob 3 AV grenades at tank sitting 10m from me?, AV grenades lost more from that grenade then the slight buff they were given back PLC buff happened increase of ppl using it but again requires aim which 99% dont have Plc buff happened and everyone went to have a look, including my self, it is still poor because the damage just doesn't stack up. It's still not viable as an Anti-Tank weapon Vehicles have lost skills, modules, hulls, turrets slots aswell as accuracy on blasters so you can no longer defend yourself, Can't defend yourself? Yet this fitting: http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/6018 will take 6 PRO swarm launcher, without taking into account it's hardeners and repping, it also comes equipepdd with a scanner and fuel injector. If your having trouble surviving in that kind of fit I suggest you reevaluate how you pilot your tank. Futhermore they do intend to give them back when vehicles are in a balanced state. Rail range because muh DS for ppl who cant fly, or because you all sat in the redline like incredibly scrubby snipers armor rep rate because i cant solo it with militia, Yes of course because repping at well over 300 HP/s faster than the DPS of AV isn't broken at all. Hardner nerf because it did its job, because achieving 98% damage resistance isn't at all broken railgun OH because why not, railgun refire speed because why not, tankers complained about railgun DPS because we all got in tanks to kill you, like you wanted thank Spkr for that one overdrive nerf because it worked, afterburner nerf because it does its job, Yes because I'm sure tanks should be driving as fast as LAV's damage mod nerf because it does its job Tankers complained about that because we fitted out damage mod tanks to kill you, like you suggested AV got nerfed get ****** all its had is buffs while vehicles have got less of everything and that is a fact Yes because in the rebalance we lost Direct Damage to the Forge Gun Swarm Launcher lock-on speed Profciency Changes + Damage Mod changes equalling a 28% nerf to AV damage output across the board. Forge guns that wouldn't fire. (Bug) Damage Mods that didn't effect damage (Bug) You spent all of 1.8 telling us to get in tanks to kill you, me Atiim and every other AVer followed your advice and fit Damage Mod Railguns to take you out. You have spent your entire time in this game complaining, because a skilled AVer managed to take you solo a half dozen times. Prehaps if you didn't insist on tanks and vehicles being overpowered and require half a teams woth of proto to scratch the paintwork you might more people actually prepared to have reasonable discussions. AV and Vehicles have both been progressively nerfed since the orginal rebalance. Not to mention they are getting nerfed again in Charlie. Move tank around corner, swarms still follow, yea no Harderners got nerfs just as bad, the new damage profiles of both weapons make hardeners worthless unless you run 2 at any one time which takes up 2 out of the 3 slots AV nades are fine now, they are a skillless weapon to begin with, its bad enough that they never miss and require no aim Maybe you dont know how to use the PLC? then again go to PC matches if its not used then its useless because scrubs like you balance for pubs and not PC Maddy with a plate and hardener lol, with a blaster on it lol it cant hit anything outside 10m lol, says its a good fit lol, says CCP will give vehicle stuff back when its balanced, its never been as unbalanced since they removed useful skills/hulls/modules/slots/turrets, even 1.0 was better In the hills like a sniper, no up at the enemy redline killing bolas 300hp/s only viable fit left, hardeners are worse than a repper and have a cooldown timer, plate is useless and makes you slower, scrubs nerfed anything which was good so we adapted and used whats left, same scrubs keep screaming for nerfs to balance pubs but triple rep maddy is useless in PC Direct damage to FG, BFG can still 2 shot a maddy/gunlogi Lost lock on time, its an unskilled weapon which requires no aim, you dont even have to keep lock on to guide the missiles Profciency Changes + Damage Mod changes equalling a 28% nerf to AV damage output across the board, while hardeners/reppers get nerfed for vehicles which makes it even while blasters are made worse so you cant defend yourself Forge guns that wouldn't fire. (Bug), Railguns that wouldnt fire (bug) still hasnt been fixed since pre 1.0 Damage Mods that didn't effect damage (Bug), Shield boosters dont work (bug) still broken Wants to be able to solo all vehicles with proto weapons, yet wont allow pilots to have proto hulls or useful modules and skills which they have lost Vehicles have been nerfed alot more than AV and its a fact, they have lost more modules/turrets/slots/hulls and skills and still continue to lose out on the nerf train SL/FG have roughly stayed the same in DUST, yet vehicles get less of everything in every update. fact
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming 1239	Posted - 2014.08.01 18:01:00 - [56] - Quote Bottom line: ADS's are fragile, not terribly manoeuvrable and frankly need the afterburners just to survive. Even then there is skill in knowing when and how to use them effectively in actual combat. AV users don't like seeing their target get away. They don't see the suppressive effect they have. Even a militia swarm throws the craft around like you suddenly gave the controls to an drunken angry infant. They also forget that the ADS is the most expensive investment that a player can risk placing on the field, so its only right that there is some protection. They also forget there is no freakin cover up there -_- "The air smells damp and oppressive, like a wet nun" "Why am I talking to a lightbulb? Illuminate me"
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3657	Posted - 2014.08.01 18:13:00 - [57] - Quote .
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8914	Posted - 2014.08.01 18:13:00 - [58] - Quote emm kay wrote: The role of pilot takes the (arguably) most skill of any other vehiclist in the game. All the arguments i see are "all you have to do is activate your afterburner" or 'all you pilots just run'. And to that I question you this; how does a dropship that runs manage to kill you? Just by flying in the air we presume huge risks that blue berries don't have to worry about, such as: 1) surprise forge gun 2) confined spaces 3) installations (seriously, redline installations are BS OP already) hitting you from 600 meters 4) new installation AI ( blueberries may have to be concerned about this) 5) rail tanks 6) kamikaze pilots 7) the mcc (plink.... Boom!) 8) heavies beating our shields' passive regen (i hate this, personally) 9) other, friendly pilots 10) layers and layers and layers of swarms I've died to all these things atleast once, and they are real threats that we watch out for in real time. Not only do we have to watch out for every one of those, there is no cover for us! If we get hit by a forge, our only option is to run, kill, or die. Most often you will see the run or die actions, however, once in a brave while you'll see a pilot who fighs off the threat (i'll admit, i rarely do this, ever) succesfully (even more rarely) and continue on their dropship day. So, why do those who complain do so? For starters, I've flown assault dropships ever since they were introduced, started with the Python now I mostly use the Incubus. The ADS definitely takes the most time to learn how to control the darn thing, but that is the only real hump presented. Doesn't take too long, maybe a few days of dedication. Once you figure out how to control it nicely, it is in my opinion the easiest vehicle to operate. 1) My ADS can survive 3 forge shots, and I always take the precaution and flee after the first shot. Usually there's another area I can work on away from the forges anyways. 2) Not very difficult to maneuver around, but most the time you can aim your missile into the space without going in yourself. 3) This was a problem until they nerfed Rail Installation range. Not a problem anymore. 4) Meh, will have to hold my judgement until I see how new Installation EHP turns out 5) Funny enough I mostly see ADS pilots in Ambush OMS since they can avoid rail tanks, their one true counter. But like forges, as soon as you get hit the first time move out of the way, it will be extremely difficult to track you. Then you can get up on the tank's personal space and wreck him in such a way that he can't even aim back at you. Easier to deal with than forges. 6) Kamikaze pilots will always fly militia or standard dropships, meaning they aren't nearly as maneuverable. Keep an eye out for them, and then you can easily position yourself in a way to destroy them while they slowly try to catch up. 7) That is your own stupid fault if you are hitting the MCC 8) Haven't flown a Python in a long time, but at least with the Incubus this is never a problem. 9) Not very hard to keep track of where all dropships are. 10) Swarms can be outran. Assault dropships are by far the EASIEST role in all of Dust 514, taking both vehicles and infantry into consideration. This is largely due to the lack of counters. Still, I'll have to wait and see how new installation EHP changes things. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3205	Posted - 2014.08.01 18:39:00 - [59] - Quote Taki wrote: Move tank around corner, swarms still follow, yea no Fires Swarms at Tank, piles into building, yeah yeah Harderners got nerfs just as bad, the new damage profiles of both weapons make hardeners worthless unless you run 2 at any one time which takes up 2 out of the 3 slots Hold on are you saying the NERFED damage profile is worse than before? Please continue on how more nerfs to AV will make it more over powered. In the end you recieved a 15% hardener nerf for armour and 20% for shields, we recieved nearly 30% max damage output nerf . On weapons that already had poor max damage output for the time. AV nades are fine now, they are a skillless weapon to begin with, its bad enough that they never miss and require no aim They still got nerfed though which kinda what we are discussing here Maybe you dont know how to use the PLC? then again go to PC matches if its not used then its useless because scrubs like you balance for pubs and not PC So I'm going to balance the game on a game mode a half dozen people play, which consists entirely of FOTM spam? I've been in PC matches Taki, there is a good reason for them not to be used as balance. Maddy with a plate and hardener lol, with a blaster on it lol it cant hit anything outside 10m lol, says its a good fit lol, says CCP will give vehicle stuff back when its balanced, its never been as unbalanced since they removed useful skills/hulls/modules/slots/turrets, even 1.0 was better can you suggest a fit that will sponge more damage without stacking hardeners? In the hills like a sniper, no up at the enemy redline killing bolas As equally Scrubby: Spkr4thedead wrote: They're also generally terrible, either camping a mountaintop, or only coming out of the redline when an enemy tank is nearby. This in my opinion is the worst way to tank. 300hp/s only viable fit left, hardeners are worse than a repper and have a cooldown timer, plate is useless and makes you slower, scrubs nerfed anything which was good so we adapted and used whats left, same scrubs keep screaming for nerfs to balance pubs but triple rep maddy is useless in PC Prehaps that's because half the enemy sit on a rooftop spamming forge guns to high heaven? Something I would not be opposed to removing. Direct damage to FG, BFG can still 2 shot a maddy/gunlogi Yeah with 8 second charge time and the inabilty to frikking move, that is an entire 16seconds you have to get out of the guys radius. if you are regularly getting 2 shotted by a Breach Forge Gun you need to learn when to retreat. Dropships do it so well, a few idiots thinknthey need a nerf! Lost lock on time, its an unskilled weapon which requires no aim, you dont even have to keep lock on to guide the missiles Do you actually have mathematical proof or is this just opinon? Swarms are no more skilless than Missile Turrets or Railguns against vehicles. Just Point and Shoot Right? Reptools are skilless just because all you have to do is hold down the fire button. Is that correct as well? Profciency Changes + Damage Mod changes equalling a 28% nerf to AV damage output across the board, while hardeners/reppers get nerfed for vehicles which makes it even while blasters are made worse so you cant defend yourself Forge guns that wouldn't fire. (Bug), Railguns that wouldnt fire (bug) still hasnt been fixed since pre 1.0 My railgun always worked fine Damage Mods that didn't effect damage (Bug), Shield boosters dont work (bug) still broken Shield Boosters work everytime on my Dropship Wants to be able to solo all vehicles with proto weapons, yet wont allow pilots to have proto hulls or useful modules and skills which they have lost I'd love to have Proto hulls and a greater variety of vehicle modules, but you wouldn't know that because you assume everyone who thinks tanks should be nerfed all just want the blown up with rifles. Depends of Pilot skill, AVer skill, positioning, tactics etc etc. If you can't solo your average run of the mill tanker via the use of traps, superior positioning, tactics and skill exactly how do you even expect to supress a skilled tanker? A railgun? But didn't tankers want them nerfed because they were blowing up their tanks to easy? Vehicles have been nerfed alot more than AV and its a fact, they have lost more modules/turrets/slots/hulls and skills and still continue to lose out on the nerf train Opinion: unless you have maths to prove otherwise, however I do agree vehicles were nerfed more than AV because vehicles were overpowered, but to say that AV hasn't been nerfed, or the nerfs are negligible is a narrow minded view and shows exactly why you and Spkr have become infamous for wanting OP tanks, you have absoultly no consoderation for any other role or player of this game. SL/FG have roughly stayed the same in DUST, yet vehicles get less of everything in every update. Yes because once again nearly a 30% reduction maximum damage output is "roughly the same" They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3659	Posted - 2014.08.01 20:04:00 - [60] - Quote No Hardener nerf worse AV nades still a no skill never miss weapon, you get more damage if it means you actually have to aim and hit the vehicle without having a mechanic make it up for you Balance for PC because then everything can be balanced and made useful, balance for pubs like scrubs want and your only make PC work for a select few playstyles and weapons and make everything else useless No point using a blaster on it, plates slow you down hardner is useless, might aswell go with 2 reps and a plate but the tank fit is still crap since every part of it got nerfed Redlining is more scrubby than being in the redline, top lol So you are saying a triple rep is useless in PC? maybe we are getting somewhere 8second charge time lolno, obv doesnt know **** about FG It was worked out time ago when it was changed, yes they are skillless, missiles require aim, railguns require aim, neither lock on and do the deed for you, rep tools dont kill ppl Rails still bugged, booster still bugged, you wouldnt know tho sine you hop in 1 every blue moon Its why you actively complain and ask for every useful mod and hull to be nerfed Doesnt think vehicles have been nerfed more, top lol here is a list Enforcers - removed Marauders - removed logi lav - removed logi ds - removed scout lav - removed HS - removed nanofibre hulls - removed tracking computers - removed tracking enhancers - removed 12 types of turrets removed in total active armor reps removed active hardners nerfed passive hardners removed torque modes removed passive damage mods removed railgun range nerfed railgun damage nerfed railgun refire time nerfed railgun oh nerfed missile damage nerfed missile spalsh nerfed blaster accuracy nerfed blaster oh nerfed blaster range nerfed pg/cpu nerfed pg passive skill bonus removed cpu passive skill bonus removed shield hp skill bonus removed armor hp skill bonus removed damage increase for all turrets x6 removed hull slots on all vehicles nerfed shield hp mods nerfed armor hp mods nerfed over 50% of skill books have lost the passive skill bonus Proberly alot more i missed out

Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 4300	Posted - 2014.08.01 20:09:00 - [61] - Quote My only complaint with ADS is HAVING TO AIM THROUGH THE BLOODY DROPSHIP!!! Seriously, transparency would be soooo easy to implement. Tank buster // caldari scout
calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1830	Posted - 2014.08.01 21:20:00 - [62] - Quote If ADS would not sit on top of you and bombard you over and over and then when you retaliate they hit the burners and gone. Out of all range weapons. So yes ADS is a bit much. I hate them for this fact. So give them a certain height that allows some form of deterrence and I will be happy. Closed Beta Vet and gave up on assault back to Heavy full time. Remove cloaks balance scouts.
Zindorak 1.U.P 217	Posted - 2014.08.01 21:27:00 - [63] - Quote Flix Keptick wrote: My only complaint with ADS is HAVING TO AIM THROUGH THE BLOODY DROPSHIP!!! Seriously, transparency would be soooo easy to implement. yea lol Master of the Scrambler Pistol. Carthum Assault ScP <3
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3524	Posted - 2014.08.01 22:13:00 - [64] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: SL can still fire its entire clip in less than 4seconds This is not correct. Try it. If counting is not your strong point, ask your mom to count for you or get a stop watch. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3659	Posted - 2014.08.01 22:32:00 - [65] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: SL can still fire its entire clip in less than 4seconds This is not correct. Try it. If counting is not your strong point, ask your mom to count for you or get a stop watch. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1213221#post1213221 From 1.4 onwards less than 4seconds
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3212	Posted - 2014.08.01 23:00:00 - [66] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: No Or do you use them once and take that as your basis for all your opinions? I've had swarms drive themselves into the ground because the tanker went over a speed bump. I've had them miss a fast moving tank by inches and then pile into the ground because they tried turning around. I've have probably seen every which way Swarms can be outplayed, outsmarted and outmanoeuvred by good tankers. Hell 1 guy in FW made me kill my own teams tank with a Swarm launcher becuase I was dumb and just locked-on and fired without any consideration to the battle around me. Hardener nerf worse CCP Logibro wrote: Vehicle hardeners have been reduced in effectiveness (Armour 40% -> 25%, Shield 60% -> 40%) 20% for Shields 15% for Armour AV nades still a no skill never miss weapon, you get more damage if it means you actually have to aim and hit the vehicle without having a mechanic make it up for you Well it's obvious you don't use them then, you have to actually throw it AT the vehicle, or would you rather us have to throw it at 2 inch spot under your turret to achieve any damage? Balance for PC because then everything can be balanced and made useful, balance for pubs like scrubs want and your only make PC work for a select few playstyles and weapons and make everything else useless Or if it's balanced for Pubs it'll be balanced for PC, if PC only consits of a few select playstyles "because they are all that works" that means those playstyles are overpowered! How can you not see that? If the game is balanced in either aspect then there wil be no OP playstyles No point using a blaster on it, plates slow you down hardner is useless, might aswell go with 2 reps and a plate but the tank fit is still crap since every part of it got nerfed So no then? You can't make a better fit? Redlining is more scrubby than being in the redline, top lol I used the word equally, I suggest you get a dictionary and learn what the term equally means. Sitting on your opponents redline and destroying vehicles (at the time the only thing capable of destroying/supressing you) before they deploy is pretty damn scrubby. So you are saying a triple rep is useless in PC? maybe we are getting somewhere I'm saying there are tactics in PC which I frown upon, I would have no objection to removing said tactics. Very different reasons, very different methods, similar results. I am aware vehicles are struggling in PC mostly because of the age old tactic of "Put 7 forge guns on the highest point in the map tactic" I personally would love to see a height limit enforced for infantry players to stop this behaviour. 8second charge time lolno, obv doesnt know ** about FG Yeah fair enough, read the wrong stats (I will except my error) still even at max operation 4.5 secs is a long time to react to a guy who can move. It was worked out time ago when it was changed, yes they are skillless, missiles require aim, railguns require aim, neither lock on and do the deed for you, rep tools dont kill ppl So you mean to tell me it's difficult to point the tiny blue dot at the side of a huge tank? The fact a reptool doesn't kill people is not the point, it does the work for you but knowing when and how to use it effectively is all down to the player. Rails still bugged, booster still bugged, you wouldnt know tho sine you hop in 1 every blue moon I'm in a dropship regularly so I'm pretty happy with my booster and my squad mate is pretty happy with his rail turret. Its why you actively complain and ask for every useful mod and hull to be nerfed Its why ask for every OP thing to be nerfed because they are OP. Monkey MAC wrote:** I'd love to have Proto hulls and a greater variety of vehicle modules, I have literally just said to you I would love for their to be Proto Hulls and additional mods, yet apparently that has no bearing on you? Doesnt think vehicles have been nerfed more, top lol here is a list Snip Proberly alot more i missed out Monkey MAC wrote: however I do agree vehicles were nerfed more than AV because vehicles were overpowered, Looks like I'm not the only who needs to double check what I'm reading They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3539	Posted - 2014.08.01 23:06:00 - [67] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1213221#post1213221 From 1.4 onwards less than 4seconds That's what they said. But I've yet to see it. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2319	Posted - 2014.08.01 23:09:00 - [68] - Quote Dropships need a re-concept. They work completely assbackwards. They have made dropships roaming slayer vehicles that are based on hit and run tactics. Dropships where supposed to be mobile troop transport vehicles and Mobile spawn platforms. This would improve the entire gameplay of DUST as you can have more mobile spawn platforms that allow the red-lining to be less of an issue. aswell as moving entire teams out of the red-line to more competitive parts of the map. Dropship pilots where supposed to get rewarded for picking up troops from a captured point then moving them quick. Keeping the battlefield continuously exciting and evolving.. Instead of the constant stale mates that happen now. Dropships where supposed to be that static sight in the sky that give full time legitimacy to full time AV mercenaries.. Allowing something they can engage always.. But with the Straight up burst alpha damage that dropships have today and with the lack of any meaningful defense to sit there and provide support to troops, or not being able to have a meaningful gunfire exchange with AV specialists before having to completely run for your life. We have made dropships into fighters essentially. The entire purpose of tank modules on the dropship was to allow them to stay in the air and have some persistence... Not to give Turrets on Dropships extreme killing potential and be forced to have dropships paper thin to balance it. It's assbackwards concept and makes no sense.
Atiim Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11171	Posted - 2014.08.01 23:17:00 - [69] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: SL can still fire its entire clip in less than 4seconds 1.4 * 3 = 4.2s \| 4.2s Gë« 4s Your inability to perform grade school math aside, the amount of time it takes to empty a clip can be very misleading when in a balance discussion, as Swarms have a significant travel time, meaning their damage application is not instantaneous. -HAND
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3660	Posted - 2014.08.01 23:55:00 - [70] - Quote Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: SL can still fire its entire clip in less than 4seconds 1.4 * 3 = 4.2s \| 4.2s Gë« 4s Your inability to perform grade school math aside, the amount of time it takes to empty a clip can be very misleading when in a balance discussion, as Swarms have a significant travel time, meaning their damage application is not instantaneous. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1213221#post1213221 Travel time is meaningless since they have a 400m range than only the ADS with an AB can outrun

Echo 1991 WarRavens Final Resolution. 389	Posted - 2014.08.01 23:57:00 - [71] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: SL can still fire its entire clip in less than 4seconds 1.4 * 3 = 4.2s \| 4.2s Gë« 4s Your inability to perform grade school math aside, the amount of time it takes to empty a clip can be very misleading when in a balance discussion, as Swarms have a significant travel time, meaning their damage application is not instantaneous. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1213221#post1213221 Travel time is meaningless since they have a 400m range than only the ADS with an AB can outrun you get behind something fast enough it still wont hit you.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3660	Posted - 2014.08.02 00:04:00 - [72] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: No Or do you use them once and take that as your basis for all your opinions? I've had swarms drive themselves into the ground because the tanker went over a speed bump. I've had them miss a fast moving tank by inches and then pile into the ground because they tried turning around. I've have probably seen every which way Swarms can be outplayed, outsmarted and outmanoeuvred by good tankers. Hell 1 guy in FW made me kill my own teams tank with a Swarm launcher becuase I was dumb and just locked-on and fired without any consideration to the battle around me. So you are saying they are broken? Hardener nerf worse CCP Logibro wrote: Vehicle hardeners have been reduced in effectiveness (Armour 40% -> 25%, Shield 60% -> 40%) 20% for Shields 15% for Armour Yup terrible nerf, even militia could bypass a hardener AV nades still a no skill never miss weapon, you get more damage if it means you actually have to aim and hit the vehicle without having a mechanic make it up for you Well it's obvious you don't use them then, you have to actually throw it AT the vehicle, or would you rather us have to throw it at 2 inch spot under your turret to achieve any damage? I can throw an AV nade over the vehicle and it would miss except it has a homing crutch mechanic which means you can never miss Balance for PC because then everything can be balanced and made useful, balance for pubs like scrubs want and your only make PC work for a select few playstyles and weapons and make everything else useless Or if it's balanced for Pubs it'll be balanced for PC, if PC only consits of a few select playstyles "because they are all that works" that means those playstyles are overpowered! How can you not see that? If the game is balanced in either aspect then there wil be no OP playstyles Wrong, how many tripple rep maddys have you seen in PC? No point using a blaster on it, plates slow you down hardner is useless, might aswell go with 2 reps and a plate but the tank fit is still crap since every part of it got nerfed So no then? You can't make a better fit? I just gave you one, the hardener is useless so replace with a rep, turrets is useless so replace with whatever you want, either way you have a gimped tank which frankly cant do ** in PC unless you glass cannon the out of it that is if it has enough CPU which it generally doesnt Redlining is more scrubby than being in the redline, top lol I used the word equally, I suggest you get a dictionary and learn what the term equally means. Sitting on your opponents redline and destroying vehicles (at the time the only thing capable of destroying/supressing you) before they deploy is pretty damn scrubby. No its shutting down the attack before it can begin So you are saying a triple rep is useless in PC? maybe we are getting somewhere I'm saying there are tactics in PC which I frown upon, I would have no objection to removing said tactics. Very different reasons, very different methods, similar results. So are you saying a triple rep is useless in PC? I am aware vehicles are struggling in PC mostly because of the age old tactic of "Put 7 forge guns on the highest point in the map tactic" I personally would love to see a height limit enforced for infantry players to stop this behaviour. Its still a valid tactic, armor isnt thicker on the front like it is in PS2 so frankly a tank should be able to take that kind of damage, in 1.0 PC days the maddy could take quite a bit of damage more so than now, so why cant it now deal with the same tactic? 8second charge time lolno, obv doesnt know about FG Yeah fair enough, read the wrong stats (I will except my error) still even at max operation 4.5 secs is a long time to react to a guy who can move. Maybe but position is key with suprise element and aim required if you want that sweet weakspot It was worked out time ago when it was changed, yes they are skillless, missiles require aim, railguns require aim, neither lock on and do the deed for you, rep tools dont kill ppl So you mean to tell me it's difficult to point the tiny blue dot at the side of a huge tank? The fact a reptool doesn't kill people is not the point, it does the work for you but knowing when and how to use it effectively is all down to the player. Its difficult to point a tiny blue dot at the weakspot for maximum damage, rep tool doesnt kill it is the point since SL can kill vehicles Rails still bugged, booster still bugged, you wouldnt know tho sine you hop in 1 every blue moon I'm in a dropship regularly so I'm pretty happy with my booster and my squad mate is pretty happy with his rail turret. Its why you actively complain and ask for every useful mod and hull to be nerfed Its why ask for every OP thing to be nerfed because they are OP. Monkey MAC wrote:** I'd love to have Proto hulls and a greater variety of vehicle modules, I have literally just said to you I would love for their to be Proto Hulls and additional mods, yet apparently that has no bearing on you? It has no bearing because whatever proto mods we have infantry like you want to nerf them into the ground so we cant stand up to proto AV with our basic plus proto mods Doesnt think vehicles have been nerfed more, top lol here is a list Snip Proberly alot more i missed out Monkey MAC wrote: however I do agree vehicles were nerfed more than AV because vehicles were overpowered, Looks like I'm not the only who needs to double check what I'm reading
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3660	Posted - 2014.08.02 00:05:00 - [73] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: SL can still fire its entire clip in less than 4seconds 1.4 * 3 = 4.2s \| 4.2s Gë« 4s Your inability to perform grade school math aside, the amount of time it takes to empty a clip can be very misleading when in a balance discussion, as Swarms have a significant travel time, meaning their damage application is not instantaneous. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1213221#post1213221 Travel time is meaningless since they have a 400m range than only the ADS with an AB can outrun you get behind something fast enough it still wont hit you. Is there cover in the sky? Only if the vehicle is at max range but if it goes for where you were before you moved it will travel around the corner no matter what
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3545	Posted - 2014.08.02 00:10:00 - [74] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Is there cover in the sky? Only if the vehicle is at max range but if it goes for where you were before you moved it will travel around the corner no matter what Make no mistake, AVers. Pythons and Incubi are crashed all day every day by swarm specialists. It may not be you out there crashing birds, and it certainly is not me, but Taki here has laid everything out. As you can see, Assaults Dropships don't stand a chance. No cover. No chance of escape. We're probably crashing them and not even realizing it. Tanks too. Swarms are that good. This explains the Swarm Launcher's stellar performance in the Expert Challenge. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3212	Posted - 2014.08.02 00:45:00 - [75] - Quote No Swarms aren't broken but they require more planning than ooh look tank! personally I'd like even further chamges made to make Swarms more skillful even with it being a lock-on weapon and all. I'm simply pointing out that there smarter tanker out there who manage to turn the tables on swarm launchers, you can learn to do the same for the low low price of 5 million ISK Wether you like the nerf or not it was the nerf I told you it was, pair this with your abilty to count 4.2 as being under 4 seconds, telling me I said something I didn't, you might need to go back to preschool before we can continue this arguement. Yeah you definetly haven't used many AV grenades. Are triple Rep Madrugars overpowered? No? That's why you don't see them in PC, like I said only OP playstyles are seen in PC. So your telling me reducing incoming damage by a quarter is useless? Ok, ok, I'll take you word for that, reducing incoming damage enough to effectively add over a 1000 extra eHP to your fit, plus bumping up your active repping power is uselss? Cool, ok! Shutting down an attack before it can begin, I'll remember that term the nex time a tanker complains when we ganked their tank before it hit the floor. No I'm not saying triple reps are uselss in PC, I'm saying PC is simply a load of Pig Crap and is a poor medium for balance, would you like me to spell it out further for you. Aah ya see we are getting somewhere now, not only do you WANT 7 people sat on a roof all match, you WANT them to be ineffective against tanks, because you know it's not like it's actually teamwork or anything, and as we all know teamwork should ALWAYS win. The fact you want to go back to days when even teamwork like that wasn't enough to kill you says it all. So why are you complaining about forge guns then? You know they need to have you in an incredibly compromising position, which could easily be covered by friendly infantry because he can't even move. You also know he either has to wait patiently for his pray or risking loosing every kill where the pilot has reactions at least on par with a goldfish! How much more do you want? Do we have summon the 4 horseman of the apocalypse first? And it's not hard to force the Swarms which aim for centre mass without any direction from you to do so? You have incredibly fast projetile on a target the size of a barn, especially if you catch him side on where you can't shoot his weakspot anyway. Requiring all of my ammo reserves to kill you isn't being able to stand up to our damage? Oh come on taki get a grip, STD dropsuits can't even fit Proto modules. You expect STD hulls to have high survivabilty, what the hell are Protpmhulls gonna be in your view cause they sound like they might as well be MCC. I would expect my PRO AV on PRO Dropsuit to be capable of AT THE VERY LEAST scarring you off back to the redline with absolute regularity. I'm done, here I've said my piece, all there is left to say is that so long as vehicles exsist in this game you will not be happy with them! They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
The True Inferno Myrmidon Syndicate 45	Posted - 2014.08.02 01:08:00 - [76] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Dropships need a re-concept. They work completely assbackwards. They have made dropships roaming slayer vehicles that are based on hit and run tactics. Dropships where supposed to be mobile troop transport vehicles and Mobile spawn platforms. This would improve the entire gameplay of DUST as you can have more mobile spawn platforms that allow the red-lining to be less of an issue. aswell as moving entire teams out of the red-line to more competitive parts of the map. Dropship pilots where supposed to get rewarded for picking up troops from a captured point then moving them quick. Keeping the battlefield continuously exciting and evolving.. Instead of the constant stale mates that happen now. Dropships where supposed to be that static sight in the sky that give full time legitimacy to full time AV mercenaries.. Allowing something they can engage always.. But with the Straight up burst alpha damage that dropships have today and with the lack of any meaningful defense to sit there and provide support to troops, or not being able to have a meaningful gunfire exchange with AV specialists before having to completely run for your life. We have made dropships into fighters essentially. The entire purpose of tank modules on the dropship was to allow them to stay in the air and have some persistence... Not to give Turrets on Dropships extreme killing potential and be forced to have dropships paper thin to balance it. It's assbackwards concept and makes no sense. A few things CCP could do(leaving ADS out of it): Reintroduce the logi dropship Give points for spawns with both Moblie CRUs and logistic dropship spawns Increase the range and hit detection (possible aim assist?) for some side guns on dropships, exclude ADSs Greatly improve deployment bonus Fix the Mobile CRU randomly going of and on, when spawning people usually don't see it, thus do not spawn on it Reintroduce sheild and armor transporters for vehicles and give points for it(as they are an active module)a swell as older modules such as the passive hardener, active reps, overdrive and turret heat sinkers ScP = GÖÑ Recent fat scout (sentinel w/shotty and cin-cats)
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3213	Posted - 2014.08.02 02:13:00 - [77] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Dropships need a re-concept. They work completely assbackwards. They have made dropships roaming slayer vehicles that are based on hit and run tactics. Dropships where supposed to be mobile troop transport vehicles and Mobile spawn platforms. This would improve the entire gameplay of DUST as you can have more mobile spawn platforms that allow the red-lining to be less of an issue. aswell as moving entire teams out of the red-line to more competitive parts of the map. Dropship pilots where supposed to get rewarded for picking up troops from a captured point then moving them quick. Keeping the battlefield continuously exciting and evolving.. Instead of the constant stale mates that happen now. Dropships where supposed to be that static sight in the sky that give full time legitimacy to full time AV mercenaries.. Allowing something they can engage always.. But with the Straight up burst alpha damage that dropships have today and with the lack of any meaningful defense to sit there and provide support to troops, or not being able to have a meaningful gunfire exchange with AV specialists before having to completely run for your life. We have made dropships into fighters essentially. The entire purpose of tank modules on the dropship was to allow them to stay in the air and have some persistence... Not to give Turrets on Dropships extreme killing potential and be forced to have dropships paper thin to balance it. It's assbackwards concept and makes no sense. You can rede them as much you like but they still won't be used for dropship purposes, 1) The maps are too small I really don think I need a ride in a dropship to the next Null Cannon, it's only across the road. 2) Drop Uplinks Not only faster, they are readily available and you know exactly where you're gonna get off, not like when you jump out of moving dropship who's busy evading the Cloud of Swarms because can't hover close enough to the point you need to drop on. 3) Rewards There is little to no reward for actually transporting players, I think the best I have ever received from a Transport Assist is 12WP. Futhermore there is no reward for picking up 'distressed' soilders, because when you drop them off in your own territory to regroup or whatever they need to do, they are earning WP for your transport assist. Dropships will never be used the way they are meant to be in this game, there is little tactical advantage especially over LAV amd Uplinks! They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1013	Posted - 2014.08.02 04:21:00 - [78] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Atiim wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: SL can still fire its entire clip in less than 4seconds 1.4 * 3 = 4.2s \| 4.2s Gë« 4s Your inability to perform grade school math aside, the amount of time it takes to empty a clip can be very misleading when in a balance discussion, as Swarms have a significant travel time, meaning their damage application is not instantaneous. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1213221#post1213221 Travel time is meaningless since they have a 400m range than only the ADS with an AB can outrun I don't think they can be fired in less than 4 seconds, I think the actual time it takes for all missile to be fired is being ignored, but even if it is true a 4.2 second TTK is not excessively fast. Second, a full clip of swarms does not kill a Python in actual gameplay. Because, that's why.
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 273	Posted - 2014.08.02 05:14:00 - [79] - Quote cuz dropship is eezy mod stup relieing on ur cruch scrb dis is hvy derpshp 514 nee 2 b nerf Dust servers will be a ghost town on 09/09/14 Destiny kicks ass... Like Halo knocked up Mass Effect and gave birth
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3562	Posted - 2014.08.02 05:18:00 - [80] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: 1. I don't think they can be fired in less than 4 seconds, I think the actual time it takes for all missile to be fired is being ignored 2. Second, a full clip of swarms does not kill a Python in actual gameplay. 1. Agreed. Something's missing from the "4 second" figure. 2. Agreed. In practice, two Swarmers (two sync'd clips) are needed to crash a Python. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley

Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2319	Posted - 2014.08.03 04:06:00 - [81] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Bethhy wrote: Dropships need a re-concept. They work completely assbackwards. They have made dropships roaming slayer vehicles that are based on hit and run tactics. Dropships where supposed to be mobile troop transport vehicles and Mobile spawn platforms. This would improve the entire gameplay of DUST as you can have more mobile spawn platforms that allow the red-lining to be less of an issue. aswell as moving entire teams out of the red-line to more competitive parts of the map. Dropship pilots where supposed to get rewarded for picking up troops from a captured point then moving them quick. Keeping the battlefield continuously exciting and evolving.. Instead of the constant stale mates that happen now. Dropships where supposed to be that static sight in the sky that give full time legitimacy to full time AV mercenaries.. Allowing something they can engage always.. But with the Straight up burst alpha damage that dropships have today and with the lack of any meaningful defense to sit there and provide support to troops, or not being able to have a meaningful gunfire exchange with AV specialists before having to completely run for your life. We have made dropships into fighters essentially. The entire purpose of tank modules on the dropship was to allow them to stay in the air and have some persistence... Not to give Turrets on Dropships extreme killing potential and be forced to have dropships paper thin to balance it. It's assbackwards concept and makes no sense. You can rede them as much you like but they still won't be used for dropship purposes, 1) The maps are too small I really don think I need a ride in a dropship to the next Null Cannon, it's only across the road. 2) Drop Uplinks Not only faster, they are readily available and you know exactly where you're gonna get off, not like when you jump out of moving dropship who's busy evading the Cloud of Swarms because can't hover close enough to the point you need to drop on. 3) Rewards There is little to no reward for actually transporting players, I think the best I have ever received from a Transport Assist is 12WP. Futhermore there is no reward for picking up 'distressed' soilders, because when you drop them off in your own territory to regroup or whatever they need to do, they are earning WP for your transport assist. Dropships will never be used the way they are meant to be in this game, there is little tactical advantage especially over LAV amd Uplinks! Monkey.... Your being very silly. The maps are too small? Your serious? Have you played Planetside? because it makes little sense when your running 800m in DUST and then running all of 400m in planetside 2 to get to the next map. Yet mass transportation is kinda huge in PS2.. as well as mobile armor spawn platforms. Drop Uplinks on average have longer spawn... And if you want to spawn blindly into a uplink where everyone gets spawn killed when you could spawn in a dropship and find a safe exit. Your again being silly. Dropships have been setup and ran like Paper thin ganking machines for over a year... Ofcourse that is how they are being used. How about we change it? Rewards have been buffed once and was said then it wasn't enough. Most Dropship pilots enjoy playing taxi more then they do slaying.. Most dropship plots became one to be a team player not a solo slayer. This has been a massive problem staring everyone in the face since Dropships got buffed by CCP Wang to God-like mode... Because he literally saw Vehicles as the end game in DUST 514 so should be better then everything. He got let go.
Michael Arck 5075	Posted - 2014.08.03 04:12:00 - [82] - Quote Simple. Because its next on the list. That's what we've been doing for a long time. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Ronan Elsword Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 279	Posted - 2014.08.03 04:30:00 - [83] - Quote I just hate the completely random collision damage. I don't care that another dropship can ram me and take me out. I just get tired of getting scratched by another ship or building and dying, while they are completely fine. I don't think that will ever be fixed in Dust
Shouper of BHD Better Hide R Die 305	Posted - 2014.08.03 05:58:00 - [84] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: because if you have to come up with a whole gameplan in PC to stop one guy in a ADS the thing is OP. because when the rail on the tank had its distance nerfed the ADS should have been nerfed along with it. the rail tank used to be the real counter to an ADS without that the ADS became free to **** ground troops at will. now yes i am full aware that you can put forge guns all over the high ground to keep the ADS at bay but you can't hold letters by just focussing on one ADS. its called game play balance ether buff the swarm lock on distance, rail tank range, or nerf the ADS. if you argue gameplay balance either you have forgotten what redline railgun tanks where like, it was like that time when madruagers would be in squads and run you over, except that the parking lot was where you couldn`t even fight them where they could infamously fight you.... or worse not. nerf ADS? no, buff AV yes, cheapen ADS (and DS) yes, both must be playable/awarding/usable roles.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3281	Posted - 2014.08.03 07:03:00 - [85] - Quote Nerf the ADS because it's one of the most OP tools this game has ever seen. Granted, it takes some practice to be able to fly and shoot. But it just doesn't make any sense how invincible they are. Because of the afterburner, they can hot tail it out of there whenever they get hit. Some of these dropships, you need to hit it 3 times to take it down. And unless the guy is clueless, you may only get 2 shots if the guy is low enough. > Check RND out here


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