DUST Search - Balance Scouts.. remove cloaks

Izlare Lenix wrote:

Lol. I love hearing players cry about something because they suck at killing it.

I have been a scout for 8 months. I maxed out Caldari day 1 since I always wanted a cal scout. Very recently I started specining into heavy/hmg because they are WAAAYY stronger than scouts.

I only have lvl 1 amarr/cal heavy suits and only lvl 4 hmg, and guess what...I can murder everything with a basic suit and mh-82 especially scouts. And the burst makes scouts my *****.

So why can I kill most scouts I come across as a very new heavy while long time heavies ***** and moan about scouts? Because I'm always thinking like a scout. I know how scouts operate, how they flank, how they hide, how they set traps and when they like to attack. And I am not blind as I can clearly see scouts shimmer, and with the hmg when you see a shimmer, point, click, +50.

So many heavies are stupid morons with zero situational awarness. Too many heavies have allowed their high hp suits and death dealing OP as fuk hmg to make up for thier lack of gun game.

So if you are using the highest hp suit in the game with the highest dps weapon in the game, and a scout with 1/3 your hp kills you there are two possibilities. The scout got the best of you, which is his role, or you suck balls with the best cqc weapon in the game.

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Tech De Ra Electronic Sports League 519	Posted - 2014.07.17 11:55:00 - [31] - Quote Quote: This entire thread lol Prime League champion SGL Sidearm champion Fanfest '14 All star champion
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1499	Posted - 2014.07.17 11:59:00 - [32] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: If we remove hmgs Beat me to it "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1499	Posted - 2014.07.17 12:04:00 - [33] - Quote Mike De Luca wrote: Dude, if you're in a heavy....you're not gonna see jack shot on the tacnet other than other heavies, you want ewar? join the scouts or be quiet. And turn around every once in awhile, specifically when entering and leaving buildings, idk how many I've killed with an std smg on my av fit (cal sent w/iafg) just because i use my eyes instead of trying to rely on tacnet 24/7. And then you get gang banged by me and Bor "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 160	Posted - 2014.07.17 12:29:00 - [34] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Cloaks don't make people invisible. I die plenty while cloaked, and kill plenty while they are cloaked. It is not the problem you think it is. You are sub par and you are in no way a point of balance reference. Service with a smile
RogueTrooper 2000AD Neckbeard Absolution 160	Posted - 2014.07.17 12:30:00 - [35] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Thurak1 wrote: When facing a scout there are a few things i can figure out instantly. Like if they are using a kb/mouse and if they have a clue. KB/mouse scouts that know what they are doing are dammed near impossible to kill they are like bouncing flying cat ninjas! they are just all over the dam place. Even with my HMG at nearly point blank i am lucky to even hit them never mind take their shields down. scouts using a controller even if they are experienced are much easier to hit and their movements far less erratic. Most of the time i can turn them into a pile of ooze. Huh? Are you serious? How you can possibly tell who is using a MKB and who is using a DS3 by how they jump or how erratically they move is COMPLETELY beyond me, and I suspect you are simply projecting false logic to a problem of varied skill levels in your opponents. The best five scouts I know all use DS3. In fact, I don't know of a A+ scout (or, frankly any top infantry slayer) that uses MKB. They might be out there -- and if anyone knows of one, please do correct me -- but I've not met them. Have you used a MKB with Dust? It's what I usually play with -- so please trust me when I tell you it's not MKB that you're seeing. Its cool for people to say they use a ds3 when really they use a k/b and mouse. Your welcome. Service with a smile
VikingKong iBUN G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 117	Posted - 2014.07.17 12:33:00 - [36] - Quote Balance Entire Game.. Remove Heavies
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 778	Posted - 2014.07.17 12:37:00 - [37] - Quote Lol. I love hearing players cry about something because they suck at killing it. I have been a scout for 8 months. I maxed out Caldari day 1 since I always wanted a cal scout. Very recently I started specining into heavy/hmg because they are WAAAYY stronger than scouts. I only have lvl 1 amarr/cal heavy suits and only lvl 4 hmg, and guess what...I can murder everything with a basic suit and mh-82 especially scouts. And the burst makes scouts my ***. So why can I kill most scouts I come across as a very new heavy while long time heavies *** and moan about scouts? Because I'm always thinking like a scout. I know how scouts operate, how they flank, how they hide, how they set traps and when they like to attack. And I am not blind as I can clearly see scouts shimmer, and with the hmg when you see a shimmer, point, click, +50. So many heavies are stupid morons with zero situational awarness. Too many heavies have allowed their high hp suits and death dealing OP as fuk hmg to make up for thier lack of gun game. So if you are using the highest hp suit in the game with the highest dps weapon in the game, and a scout with 1/3 your hp kills you there are two possibilities. The scout got the best of you, which is his role, or you suck balls with the best death dealing weapon in the game. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Jimmy Slapnuts Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 68	Posted - 2014.07.17 12:44:00 - [38] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: If we remove hmgs I keep reading this as "...remove HUGS" lol
calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1747	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:06:00 - [39] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Atiim wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: ' Go in a squad or at least 2 other friends I don't support the removal of Cloaks, but that's "Tanker's Logic". No its not. *I can still be taken out by a single enemy infantry unit.* : O Im just saying that since Calvin here assures its impossible to kill cloaked scouts. No I can kill scouts all day, its the fact the cloak gives one class such a huge advantage over others. It needs removal or way needs to be implemented to prevent the cloak from working temporary or have a counter to there ability to hide on radar. Closed Beta Vet and Heavy, so no I am not FOTM I am an Antique
calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1747	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:10:00 - [40] - Quote Clone D wrote: calvin b wrote: The cloak has been one of the most lopsided items placed in the game IMO and needs to be removed. You are a closed beta vet so you know all about ewar. What is you reason behind not speccing into cal scout in order to get more TACNET info and achieve greater awareness? I am proto cal. I specced into it first day. Problem was it became FOTM and that was when I left it in the closet. Second heavies are also going that way and so I started to skill into assaults. Today I turn proto in Cal Assault. I choose what I think will be a challenge, the scout was a bust and the heavy is well everyone is either going heavy or scout that is why I am choosing assault as my new toy. Closed Beta Vet and Heavy, so no I am not FOTM I am an Antique

calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1747	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:14:00 - [41] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Clone D wrote: calvin b wrote: The cloak has been one of the most lopsided items placed in the game IMO and needs to be removed. You are a closed beta vet so you know all about ewar. What is you reason behind not speccing into cal scout in order to get more TACNET info and achieve greater awareness? God love him, Calvin just likes to complain. That's his MO, and this thread is simply one of many -- all with the same tone. I think it's kind of cute and often make fun of him. He rarely takes my bait any more. Calv, All jokes aside, I hope you're doing well. I hope your doing well, second yes I am ball of anger that is why I like to run heavy it allows me to wade into Hell and kill as many as I can before I succumb to the dreaded frame rate drop. Just letting everyone know I do not like to lose and I am a tryhard. Closed Beta Vet and Heavy, so no I am not FOTM I am an Antique
calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1747	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:21:00 - [42] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Lol. I love hearing players cry about something because they suck at killing it. I have been a scout for 8 months. I maxed out Caldari day 1 since I always wanted a cal scout. Very recently I started specining into heavy/hmg because they are WAAAYY stronger than scouts. I only have lvl 1 amarr/cal heavy suits and only lvl 4 hmg, and guess what...I can murder everything with a basic suit and mh-82 especially scouts. And the burst makes scouts my ***. So why can I kill most scouts I come across as a very new heavy while long time heavies *** and moan about scouts? Because I'm always thinking like a scout. I know how scouts operate, how they flank, how they hide, how they set traps and when they like to attack. And I am not blind as I can clearly see scouts shimmer, and with the hmg when you see a shimmer, point, click, +50. So many heavies are stupid morons with zero situational awarness. Too many heavies have allowed their high hp suits and death dealing OP as fuk hmg to make up for thier lack of gun game. So if you are using the highest hp suit in the game with the highest dps weapon in the game, and a scout with 1/3 your hp kills you there are two possibilities. The scout got the best of you, which is his role, or you suck balls with the best cqc weapon in the game. Its not about situational awareness. It is the fact there is no counter to 3-4 scouts decloaking beside you and as soon as you start to lay waste they cloak and run off, or they toss RE into the air that glide and then land at your feet, or the fact they can jump over your head but I cant even jump onto a 6in curb. When a cloaked scout decloaks besides you and then proceeds to climb his way into your inner bowels remember scouts are easier, as he puts round after round into as you fail to kill them, why? Because you forgot how to think like a scout Closed Beta Vet and Heavy, so no I am not FOTM I am an Antique
Clone D Grundstein Automation 575	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:40:00 - [43] - Quote calvin b wrote: It is the fact there is no counter to 3-4 scouts decloaking beside you and ... It feels like 3-4 scouts, but it is really just 1. Seriously, if they are ganging up on you, then good for them. Did you expect anything less with your 1800 eHP mobile death beam? A corp for lonewolves where squadding and comms are optional, but exceptional team play is expected.
Jimmy Slapnuts Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 68	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:47:00 - [44] - Quote They should never have put cloaks into the game without also adding a direct counter to them. By "direct counter", I am referring to a means by which to disable or forcibly deactivate an enemy's cloak. IMO Flux Grenades should negate any active cloaks in their AoE. Also, any damage taken while cloaked should also immediately deactivate it. If I manage to spot a cloaked character, but am not in a position to kill him myself, I should at least be able to de-cloak him with a couple of shots or a Flux Grenade, in order to reveal him to my teammates.
BLOOD Ruler The Lionheart Coalition 546	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:32:00 - [45] - Quote So an xray thing,however it should cost alot like the cloak,side-effects are seeing the bones of the enemy. Feel the pain of my knives and the piercing pain your skull has felt to my pistol.I am the Assassin.
Michael Arck 4877	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:51:00 - [46] - Quote Scouts were sucker punching us long before cloaks. Cloaks just brought about new scouts. You should always be aware of your surroundings anyway. I like the challenge cloaks provide. If they get me, I make sure to watch my six so that doesnt happen a second time. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 67	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:58:00 - [47] - Quote Only the ones who can't use their brains to counter a cloak scout are the ones crying and whining that cloaks need to be removed......as a heavy you have absolutly crap for passive scan and the best you can do is scan another heavy.....im not sure if that includes the scan passive skill or not......but if it doesn't then get smart and put some dam points into your passive scan skills.......as a heavy if your not running with your squad and you running solo then you deserve to get killed by cloaked scouts.....unless it changed we have shared tacnet so try sticking with your squad and the people with better scans will show up the red dots on the map for you........ before any of you go off, i am a scout and i know how easy it is to die by the smart players that know what to look for when i run my cloak build.......and no i dont always use a cloak......there are better equpiment i can fill those slots with
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3607	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:01:00 - [48] - Quote If they do remove cloaks, I better get my extra 10 percent of damps back. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2245	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:07:00 - [49] - Quote Your being ignorant and frankly stupid. Planetside 2 you can shoot while cloaked.. And good luck seeing someone actually cloaked. The way DUST 514 and CCP did cloaking.. It doesn't get more balanced. What makes cloaking a problem in DUST? the Radar. CCP trains noobs in this game to look for red... and a red chevron. And players build up total dependency on that radar for nearly everything. Me Personally? I have stopped using it except to tell me the general direction of the action. Your EYES are OP. Specially against DUST 514's cloaks. You would literally only have had played couple of games in your life time to even see DUST's cloak mechanics in that way. Cuz when compared to cloaking mechanics in several games it doesn't get more balanced.
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 67	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:13:00 - [50] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Your being ignorant and frankly stupid. Planetside 2 you can shoot while cloaked.. And good luck seeing someone actually cloaked. The way DUST 514 and CCP did cloaking.. It doesn't get more balanced. What makes cloaking a problem in DUST? the Radar. CCP trains noobs in this game to look for red... and a red chevron. And players build up total dependency on that radar for nearly everything. Me Personally? I have stopped using it except to tell me the general direction of the action. Your EYES are OP. Specially against DUST 514's cloaks. You would literally only have had played couple of games in your life time to even see DUST's cloak mechanics in that way. Cuz when compared to cloaking mechanics in several games it doesn't get more balanced. Don't forget the uber OP cloaking in the Crysis series......talk about unbalanced

Clone D Grundstein Automation 581	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:13:00 - [51] - Quote I would argue that, at the speed which scouts move and due to the fact that the server lag creates a fringe of invisibility on TACNET, scouts can race directly toward a precision-enhanced dropsuit and one-shot it before they even show up on the radar. I am all for increasing the default scan range of every dropsuit by another 50%. A corp for lonewolves where squadding and comms are optional, but exceptional team play is expected.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2245	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:18:00 - [52] - Quote Clone D wrote: I would argue that, at the speed which scouts move and due to the fact that the server lag creates a fringe of invisibility on TACNET, scouts can race directly toward a precision-enhanced dropsuit and one-shot it before they even show up on the radar. I am all for increasing the default scan range of every dropsuit by another 50%. Common stop with the utter bullshit. just WOW.
Clone D Grundstein Automation 581	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:24:00 - [53] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Common stop with the utter bullshit. just WOW. Why the hostility? If a basic light frame scan range is 22m (20m + 2m for range amp bonus), and network lag is ~ 1 second, and the aggressing scout has a speed of ~ 10 m/s and their weapon range is ~12m, and they run directly at you, then by the time they show up on radar, they will be 12m from you and pull the trigger. Is that so hard to work out? A corp for lonewolves where squadding and comms are optional, but exceptional team play is expected.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2245	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:28:00 - [54] - Quote Clone D wrote: Bethhy wrote: Clone D wrote: I would argue that, at the speed which scouts move and due to the fact that the server lag creates a fringe of invisibility on TACNET, scouts can race directly toward a precision-enhanced dropsuit and one-shot it before they even show up on the radar. I am all for increasing the default scan range of every dropsuit by another 50%. Common stop with the utter bullshit. just WOW. Why the hostility? If a basic light frame scan range is 22m (20m + 2m for range amp bonus), and server lag is ~ 1 second, and the aggressing scout has a speed of ~ 10 m/s and their weapon range is ~12m, and they run directly at you, then by the time they show up on radar, they will be 12m from you and pull the trigger. Is that so hard to work out? Because your full of ****. And your basic understanding how the Tac-Net even works is terrible. Just go back to saying "This is OP, that is OP". because WOW.
Clone D Grundstein Automation 581	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:29:00 - [55] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Because your full of ****. And your basic understanding how the Tac-Net even works is terrible. Just go back to saying "This is OP, that is OP". because WOW. If you have a contrary understanding, please explain it. I'm all ears. A corp for lonewolves where squadding and comms are optional, but exceptional team play is expected.
Sgt Buttscratch R 0 N 1 N 2143	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:30:00 - [56] - Quote I locked down the enemies home point yesterday solo, didn't die.18/0. Running a scan scout with RE's and moar re's. No cloak. Enemy was full squad of hellstorm and some bluenarbs. Cloaks make a lot of scouts complacent. Give me my scrambler pistol back....**
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2245	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:30:00 - [57] - Quote calvin b wrote: Clone D wrote: calvin b wrote: The cloak has been one of the most lopsided items placed in the game IMO and needs to be removed. You are a closed beta vet so you know all about ewar. What is you reason behind not speccing into cal scout in order to get more TACNET info and achieve greater awareness? I am proto cal. I specced into it first day. Problem was it became FOTM and that was when I left it in the closet. Second heavies are also going that way and so I started to skill into assaults. Today I turn proto in Cal Assault. I choose what I think will be a challenge, the scout was a bust and the heavy is well everyone is either going heavy or scout that is why I am choosing assault as my new toy. So you have the ability to Counter nearly everything DUST 514 has to offer.... But because your to lazy... or you just don't "feel" like countering the stuff used against you.. It should get nerfed. or you quit. This is seriously your argument? OMG GD is getting worse by the day.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2245	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:33:00 - [58] - Quote Clone D wrote: Bethhy wrote: Because your full of ****. And your basic understanding how the Tac-Net even works is terrible. Just go back to saying "This is OP, that is OP". because WOW. If you have a contrary understanding, please explain it. I'm all ears. There are hundreds of Posts actually explaining the tac-net. Detailed information explaining the tac-net with You-tube videos for example.. People go and read and watch them before they pretend they know what they are talking about. Specially on a Nerf thread. and yes I will call bullshit when it should be called. Everytime.
843-Vika BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 67	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:34:00 - [59] - Quote Clone D wrote: Bethhy wrote: Clone D wrote: I would argue that, at the speed which scouts move and due to the fact that the server lag creates a fringe of invisibility on TACNET, scouts can race directly toward a precision-enhanced dropsuit and one-shot it before they even show up on the radar. I am all for increasing the default scan range of every dropsuit by another 50%. Common stop with the utter bullshit. just WOW. Why the hostility? If a basic light frame scan range is 22m (20m + 2m for range amp bonus), and server lag is ~ 1 second, and the aggressing scout has a speed of ~ 10 m/s and their weapon range is ~12m, and they run directly at you, then by the time they show up on radar, they will be 12m from you and pull the trigger. Is that so hard to work out? Wow another player with the inability to compensate for something blame it on server lag........ The only time server lag will be the reason for you to get killed is when your screen freezes for a second or 2 like when you try spawn into the game or when you see the rubber banding effect on screen...other then that lag is not the reason for what scouts can do..BTW no scout even stacking proto kincat can never reach 10 meters a second.....the fastest scout which in min can reach max sprint speed while stacking 3 complex kincats is 8.3055 m/s and i would run out of stamina before i got 100m away from starting point.... Your entire arguement is based on flawed data.....the start of your thread i agree with you on it.....scouts are the top of the food chain.....but if your going to try and say stuff at least make sure your facts are correct.
Clone D Grundstein Automation 581	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:38:00 - [60] - Quote 843-Vika wrote: Wow another player with the inability to compensate for something blame it on server lag........ The only time server lag will be the reason for you to get killed is when your screen freezes for a second or 2 like when you try spawn into the game or when you see the rubber banding effect on screen...other then that lag is not the reason for what scouts can do..BTW no scout even stacking proto kincat can never reach 10 meters a second.....the fastest scout which in min can reach max sprint speed while stacking 3 complex kincats is 8.3055 m/s and i would run out of stamina before i got 100m away from starting point.... Your entire arguement is based on flawed data.....the start of your thread i agree with you on it.....scouts are the top of the food chain.....but if your going to try and say stuff at least make sure your facts are correct. My max scout speeds are above 10 m/s. I don't know where you're getting your info. You have a game client and I have a game client and there is a server in between. Let's say that it takes ~500ms for your game client to send info to the server, and ~500 ms for the server to send info to my game client. Your distance from me, time elapsed, information whereabouts 22m, 0ms, your client 18m, 500ms, server 12m, 1000ms, my client (you appear on TACNET to me) you pull the trigger and bang I am dead In this way, there is a fringe of invisibility in TACNET, determined by the relative speeds of objects surrounding the player and where information is being processed and how long packets take to travel from network location to network location. A corp for lonewolves where squadding and comms are optional, but exceptional team play is expected.



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