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[Request] Swarm Launcher Damage Progression

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2097	Posted - 2014.07.17 00:35:00 - [31] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 4 across all tiers As a pilot I greatly dislike this change. We already have virtually no information to go off of when coming under fire, now you're removing the only indicator that tells me whether I can tank that second shot or if I have to run away because swarms just effortlessly destroy armor now. Having no indicator other than waiting to get owned by a ton of damage is a serious minus, as well as being a hell of a lot less cool than 6 missiles flying at you. Also invisible swarms NEED to be fixed. It's been too many times now that I'd get hit by invisible swarms. Not only do you have no indication that they are coming so the damage is a total surprise, but you don't know where they're coming from so you're just as likely to move towards the swarmer as you are to move away. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 647	Posted - 2014.07.17 00:40:00 - [32] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Also invisible swarms NEED to be fixed. It's been too many times now that I'd get hit by invisible swarms. Not only do you have no indication that they are coming so the damage is a total surprise, but you don't know where they're coming from so you're just as likely to move towards the swarmer as you are to move away. Now THAT I wholeheartedly agree with. I ******* hate invisible Swarms. Swarms I am fine with, it's when you're looking at the guy then you just get a ton of explosion all over you with no indication of anyone firing. Alt of Halla Murr.
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1538	Posted - 2014.07.17 00:58:00 - [33] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 4 across all tiers As a pilot I greatly dislike this change. We already have virtually no information to go off of when coming under fire, now you're removing the only indicator that tells me whether I can tank that second shot or if I have to run away because swarms just effortlessly destroy armor now. Having no indicator other than waiting to get owned by a ton of damage is a serious minus, as well as being a hell of a lot less cool than 6 missiles flying at you. I would actually agree that this change will prompt risk assessment issues. However, it's not like this would be unique to swarm launchers. In fact, I don't know of any weapon, AV or AI, other than the SL that makes its tier and thus power visually apparent through its firing behavior. So I'd say we either consider this is a problem, but then it's clearly systemic that needs a global solution, or it's not which means the swarm launcher is merely getting in line with virtually every other weapons system in the game. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14617	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:00:00 - [34] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 4 across all tiers As a pilot I greatly dislike this change. We already have virtually no information to go off of when coming under fire, now you're removing the only indicator that tells me whether I can tank that second shot or if I have to run away because swarms just effortlessly destroy armor now. Having no indicator other than waiting to get owned by a ton of damage is a serious minus, as well as being a hell of a lot less cool than 6 missiles flying at you. I would actually agree that this change will prompt risk assessment issues. However, it's not like this would be unique to swarm launchers. In fact, I don't know of any weapon, AV or AI, other than the SL that makes its tier and thus power visually apparent through its firing behavior. So I'd say we either consider this is a problem, but then it's clearly systemic that needs a global solution, or it's not which means the swarm launcher is merely getting in line with virtually every other weapons system in the game. To be fair, every other weapon requires you to aim and to track your target. No other weapon is fire and forget. The Future
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1538	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:19:00 - [35] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 4 across all tiers As a pilot I greatly dislike this change. We already have virtually no information to go off of when coming under fire, now you're removing the only indicator that tells me whether I can tank that second shot or if I have to run away because swarms just effortlessly destroy armor now. Having no indicator other than waiting to get owned by a ton of damage is a serious minus, as well as being a hell of a lot less cool than 6 missiles flying at you. I would actually agree that this change will prompt risk assessment issues. However, it's not like this would be unique to swarm launchers. In fact, I don't know of any weapon, AV or AI, other than the SL that makes its tier and thus power visually apparent through its firing behavior. So I'd say we either consider this is a problem, but then it's clearly systemic that needs a global solution, or it's not which means the swarm launcher is merely getting in line with virtually every other weapons system in the game. To be fair, every other weapon requires you to aim and to track your target. No other weapon is fire and forget. How exactly does therefore follow that swarms need this distinct behavior while other weapons don't? The range of RE's are the only weapons that don't require you to have LoS, or any physical connection for that matter, to the target. Should they too therefore have a unique mechanic to make their damage potential more easily assessable? You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2148	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:30:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We just looked at some swarm changes in line with this, I think reducing number of missiles per swarm and increasing swarm damage, bringing STD and ADV considerably up to PRO dmg levels I'd rather you made each missile do less damage, and have the basic shoot ten missiles, the advanced shoot eleven, and the proto shoot twelve, this would not only keep in line with the normal light weapon scales of +5% damage per teir but also look hella cool "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1453	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:32:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We just looked at some swarm changes in line with this, I think reducing number of missiles per swarm and increasing swarm damage, bringing STD and ADV considerably up to PRO dmg levels This is better, because there is less missikesbin the air, which will help server load, even in a small way. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1538	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:37:00 - [38] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We just looked at some swarm changes in line with this, I think reducing number of missiles per swarm and increasing swarm damage, bringing STD and ADV considerably up to PRO dmg levels I'd rather you made each missile do less damage, and have the basic shoot ten missiles, the advanced shoot eleven, and the proto shoot twelve, this would not only keep in line with the normal light weapon scales of +5% damage per teir but also look hella cool That could prevent the missiles from breaking shield recharge though I don't know where these thresholds actually are. Also client performance would be a concern even though it would be awesome to look at. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14619	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:53:00 - [39] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 4 across all tiers As a pilot I greatly dislike this change. We already have virtually no information to go off of when coming under fire, now you're removing the only indicator that tells me whether I can tank that second shot or if I have to run away because swarms just effortlessly destroy armor now. Having no indicator other than waiting to get owned by a ton of damage is a serious minus, as well as being a hell of a lot less cool than 6 missiles flying at you. I would actually agree that this change will prompt risk assessment issues. However, it's not like this would be unique to swarm launchers. In fact, I don't know of any weapon, AV or AI, other than the SL that makes its tier and thus power visually apparent through its firing behavior. So I'd say we either consider this is a problem, but then it's clearly systemic that needs a global solution, or it's not which means the swarm launcher is merely getting in line with virtually every other weapons system in the game. To be fair, every other weapon requires you to aim and to track your target. No other weapon is fire and forget. How exactly does therefore follow that swarms need this distinct behavior while other weapons don't? The range of RE's are the only weapons that don't require you to have LoS, or any physical connection for that matter, to the target. Should they too therefore have a unique mechanic to make their damage potential more easily assessable? Or something else entirely? REs are going to 1HKO you no matter what, so you're kind of just grasping at straws here. All I'm saying is swarm launchers are don't require you to aim in order to apply their damage, which is now quite significant, so they really don't need even more mechanics helping them apply their already significant, effortless damage. Generally speaking you're going to get hit by the first two volleys of swarms as a dropship pilot, particularly Incubus, even when you're bugging out to get away. Not having any way to know what kind of damage is coming towards you basically just assures that all we can do is fly in circles all match while some idiot spams missiles whenever we get to close. The Future
Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10573	Posted - 2014.07.17 02:44:00 - [40] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: REs are going to 1HKO you no matter what, so you're kind of just grasping at straws here. STD ones won't OHK a fitted HAV, and Proximities of all tiers won't even kill you (assuming your competent). However, there are also the AV Grenades, DUST Fiend wrote: All I'm saying is swarm launchers are don't require you to aim in order to apply their damage, which is now quite significant, It's also significantly less than it's other counterpart, the Forge Gun. I'm not sure what game you've been playing for the past 2 years, but in DUST 514 ONE sacrifice comes with ONE gain. Swarms already sacrifice damage for guidance, so any sacrifice afterwards is unnecessary. Though one could also say that they sacrifice projectile speed as well, so that's actually 2 sacrifices. DUST Fiend wrote: so they really don't need even more mechanics helping them apply their already significant, effortless damage. This point is null, as their damage would be applied regardless of the amount of Swarms. DUST Fiend wrote: Generally speaking you're going to get hit by the first two volleys of swarms as a dropship pilot, particularly Incubus, even when you're bugging out to get away. Not if you use your Afterburner the moment you hear the Swarms. DUST Fiend wrote: Not having any way to know what kind of damage is coming towards you basically just assures that all we can do is fly in circles all match while some idiot spams missiles whenever we get to close. Actually, it ensures that you'll have to be prepared for anything. The AVer doesn't have the privilege of knowing what turret (or tier) the ADS' turret is until the engagement has started, so you shouldn't either. Though this is another null point, as the damage would be the same regardless of total Swarms, meaning you'd have to evade either way. The Snack That Smiles Back, Tankers! -HAND

DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14619	Posted - 2014.07.17 02:48:00 - [41] - Quote Pretty sure I fear swarms more than forge guns now. A single clip from a PRO swarm will down just about every Incubus fit without once having to aim. At least I can dodge forge guns by being good. If I'm not already moving max speed in my bus I'm just free points for swarm launchers, and it basically just ensures that all I can do is fly away before I can even line up a shot to attempt to hit the commando that I won't be able to stay stable enough to kill in the time he kills me with his aim free weapon. It's ok, I'm moving on to other games, I just can't wrap my head around this game anymore and I have absolutely no desire to try anymore. Just in my death throes before I stop visiting the forums as well. The Future
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1541	Posted - 2014.07.17 03:03:00 - [42] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: REs are going to 1HKO you no matter what, so you're kind of just grasping at straws here. Not if you're in a tank. The tier can make a difference there since hotfix beta. DUST Fiend wrote: All I'm saying is swarm launchers are don't require you to aim in order to apply their damage, which is now quite significant, so they really don't need even more mechanics helping them apply their already significant, effortless damage. Generally speaking you're going to get hit by the first two volleys of swarms as a dropship pilot, particularly Incubus, even when you're bugging out to get away. Not having any way to know what kind of damage is coming towards you basically just assures that all we can do is fly in circles all match while some idiot spams missiles whenever we get to close. First of all. It's not a mechanic that makes damage application easier, it makes predicting the incoming damage harder. The a priori projected damage remains the same. Only your ability to premeditate the optimal response is impeded. Then again, and this is my second, it wouldn't be a mechanic helping them in the first place. To the contrary, swarms currently have a unique mechanic that works to their disadvantage by giving their target certain clues unlike every other weapon. Thirdly and probably most importantly. It seems your reasoning rests on the unspoken assumption that knowing the tier of the swarms used would continue to be a uniquely useful bit of information after the proposed scaling changes if the missile counts were to be left unchanged. If Rattati follows through with flattening the damage progression of SL, the damage difference between the STD SL and a PRO variant will go from 64% to somewhere between 10.25% and 21% regardless of missile count scaling. You will have to change the way you approach (or avoid) swarms in any case so I'd ask how important this mechanic really is under these conditions. Edit: Ninja'd. Atiim pretty much covered 1,2 and parts of the third point already. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8803	Posted - 2014.07.17 04:15:00 - [43] - Quote I must agree that it is far better to have all swarm missiles do the same damage and increase volley count per tier, as that why vehicles have something to go off of. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1033	Posted - 2014.07.17 04:16:00 - [44] - Quote Atiim wrote: The Problem Swarm Launchers have a damage increase of 25% per tier. Not only is this ridiculously higher than any other item in the game, but it makes lower tiered Swarm Launchers effectively useless as well (880 HP per volley is pathetic). The Solution My proposition, would be to make them fire the same amount of Missiles per Volley, but with 10% increments in Missile Damage per tier, which will bring it's progression in-line with other items, while making STD Swarm Launchers viable. I made a spreadsheet with the proposed changes here. Yes. 10% damage progessio. Std swarms at 800. Swarms are balanced for a fire amd forget skill-less weapon. no further buffs needed..
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6332	Posted - 2014.07.17 04:21:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 4 across all tiers -Whispers- Rattati... Six looks cooler... Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10580	Posted - 2014.07.17 04:23:00 - [46] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Yes. 10% damage progessio. Std swarms at 800. Swarms are balanced for a fire amd forget skill-less weapon. no further buffs needed.. Swarms already make a sacrifice for it's guidance capabilities, so this is point is null. However, a weapon being useless at every tier below PRO is in no way balanced. The Snack That Smiles Back, Tankers! -HAND
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14621	Posted - 2014.07.17 04:48:00 - [47] - Quote Atiim wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: Yes. 10% damage progessio. Std swarms at 800. Swarms are balanced for a fire amd forget skill-less weapon. no further buffs needed.. Swarms already make a sacrifice for it's guidance capabilities, so this is point is null. However, a weapon being useless at every tier below PRO is in no way balanced. Except they aren't useless. Giving every single player on the field access to highly potent, zero skill AV is just horrible for balance and removes the incentive to actually invest. Swarms can already put out more damage than forge guns more reliably in a faster frame of Time at no personal skill if the pilot does anything but burn away at Max speed with the afterburners he is FORCED to.fit if he wishes to to survive against an. auto aim weapon. You guys.really wont stop until vehicles are just removed.from the game The Future
Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10583	Posted - 2014.07.17 05:22:00 - [48] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Except they aren't useless. 880HP/swarm is about as useful as a MLT 20GJ Blaster on a Gorgon. DUST Fiend wrote: Giving every single player on the field access to highly potent, zero skill AV is just horrible for balance and removes the incentive to actually invest. 1056HP isn't really potent, especially compared to current PRO Swarms. These changes wouldn't remove the incentive to invest into Swarm Launchers, as you'll still need the higher tiers and proficiency to deal with the "better" Pilots. Though the current model removes the incentive for actually using it over FGs (where the "go PRO or go home" model doesn't exist), which is even worse for balance. DUST Fiend wrote: Swarms can already put out more damage than forge guns more reliably in a faster frame of Time at no personal skill if the pilot does anything but burn away at Max speed with the afterburners he is FORCED to.fit if he wishes to to survive against an. auto aim weapon. SL's damage output isn't nearly as reliable as FGs, as the damage from a FG can't be outrun, and aiming with a FG isn't really difficult either. Considering how Incubi travel at 50m/s, you still have a reasonable amount of time to escape (3.5s) without an Afterburner. If SLs are giving you that much trouble however, you should either fit an extender (thus negating the 1st Swarm, making the 2nd & 3rd significantly softer); or run a Python instead. DUST Fiend wrote: You guys.really wont stop until vehicles are just removed.from the game When vehicles are no longer a carcinogen to the NPE, when Pand when we don't have to "Go PRO or Go Home", we'll be happy to stop. The Snack That Smiles Back, Tankers! -HAND
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14621	Posted - 2014.07.17 05:49:00 - [49] - Quote Its really cute because pilots have had to "go PRO or go home" this entire time, but you just.conveniently ignore that and assume our mlt and advanced fits are totally viable in the new AV "balance" . Swarms are definitely more reliable that forges for a weapon that takes no aim. You can evade forge shots with skill and understanding of timings. Swarms you can only run from. Your shield extender suggestion assumes a single swarm on the entire map. The second you eat that first shot you are drastically more vulnerable to all AV for an extended amount of time, and are also forced to fit weaker modules to your main tank due to CPU constraints. Swarm launchers are now the staple weapon of skill-less players. Also, you can't fit two forge guns on a sentinel. It's so sad that you all need even more buffs to such an effortless weapon. It's embarrassing. The Future
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 768	Posted - 2014.07.17 12:02:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We just looked at some swarm changes in line with this, I think reducing number of missiles per swarm and increasing swarm damage, bringing STD and ADV considerably up to PRO dmg levels You can get bad FPS at the moment the swarms explode, less missiles may help improve this to. Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3893	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:16:00 - [51] - Quote Atiim wrote: The Problem Swarm Launchers have a damage increase of 25% per tier. Not only is this ridiculously higher than any other item in the game, but it makes lower tiered Swarm Launchers effectively useless as well (880 HP per volley is pathetic). The Solution My proposition, would be to make them fire the same amount of Missiles per Volley, but with 10% increments in Missile Damage per tier, which will bring it's progression in-line with other items, while making STD Swarm Launchers viable. I made a spreadsheet with the proposed changes here. I donGÇÖt like it, but I have to concede that yours is probably the only reasonable solution. I liked the uniqueness of the Swarm Launcher changing missile counts, but you are right that such a large step between tiers make it very hard to balance. I liked LogibroGÇÖs solution of changing it from 4/5/6 to 6/7/8 to reduce the step between tiers, but as he discovered when testing it, the extra missiles would create a lot of lag and this game does not need more lag. So I have to grudgingly through my support behind your suggestion. +1 As an added bonus, reducing all tiers of Swarm Launcher to 4 missiles will likely reduce lag slightly. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1518	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:02:00 - [52] - Quote This is an excellent solution. Fun > Realism
SHANN da MAN D3LTA FORC3 C0VEN 252	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:08:00 - [53] - Quote I made a proposal for Swarms way back in January along the same lines as this thread ... let me see if I can find the Necro-thread. ah ... here it is ... enjoy! nothing to see here ... move along
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 1076	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:15:00 - [54] - Quote Atiim wrote: The Problem Swarm Launchers have a damage increase of 25% per tier. Not only is this ridiculously higher than any other item in the game, but it makes lower tiered Swarm Launchers effectively useless as well (880 HP per volley is pathetic). The Solution My proposition, would be to make them fire the same amount of Missiles per Volley, but with 10% increments in Missile Damage per tier, which will bring it's progression in-line with other items, while making STD Swarm Launchers viable. I made a spreadsheet with the proposed changes here. I truly feel sorry for maddie drivers. This would mean ANY swarm launcher will pose a threat, and when grouped, certain death. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14622	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:09:00 - [55] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Atiim wrote: The Problem Swarm Launchers have a damage increase of 25% per tier. Not only is this ridiculously higher than any other item in the game, but it makes lower tiered Swarm Launchers effectively useless as well (880 HP per volley is pathetic). The Solution My proposition, would be to make them fire the same amount of Missiles per Volley, but with 10% increments in Missile Damage per tier, which will bring it's progression in-line with other items, while making STD Swarm Launchers viable. I made a spreadsheet with the proposed changes here. I truly feel sorry for maddie drivers. This would mean ANY swarm launcher will pose a threat, and when grouped, certain death. Yup, and Atiim seems to believe that infantry are the only ones who have to skill into proto. Who knew. This also applies to Incubus, which is already owned to death by swarms if you do anything other than punch your AB and keep flying away. The Future
Sir Dukey G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1035	Posted - 2014.07.18 00:27:00 - [56] - Quote Atiim wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: Yes. 10% damage progessio. Std swarms at 800. Swarms are balanced for a fire amd forget skill-less weapon. no further buffs needed.. Swarms already make a sacrifice for it's guidance capabilities, so this is point is null. However, a weapon being useless at every tier below PRO is in no way balanced. you are null so stfu. There is no counter to swarms therefor no buffs needed. Why is it that you only support stuff you skilled into???
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1961	Posted - 2014.07.18 01:52:00 - [57] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: My issue with having more missiles per launch is that missiles don't always hit their target. So even with proto you could still have the potential of dealing only standard damage. Standardizing the amount of missiles launched is a good idea. The Assault Variant could then fire more missiles with reduced damage, how does that sound? :D My thought process is that base variant swarms should fire 4 missiles. High alpha damage missiles with varying missile damages per tier, mimicking the missile turret's tier growth. 6 missiles breaks the damage up into too many individual hits. More missiles, more knock back, marginally less damage and a higher flight speed for the assault swarms would work nicely. Or am I being too greedy.... hard to say... Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1961	Posted - 2014.07.18 02:01:00 - [58] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Atiim wrote: The Problem Swarm Launchers have a damage increase of 25% per tier. Not only is this ridiculously higher than any other item in the game, but it makes lower tiered Swarm Launchers effectively useless as well (880 HP per volley is pathetic). The Solution My proposition, would be to make them fire the same amount of Missiles per Volley, but with 10% increments in Missile Damage per tier, which will bring it's progression in-line with other items, while making STD Swarm Launchers viable. I made a spreadsheet with the proposed changes here. I truly feel sorry for maddie drivers. This would mean ANY swarm launcher will pose a threat, and when grouped, certain death. Yup, and Atiim seems to believe that infantry are the only ones who have to skill into proto. Who knew. This also applies to Incubus, which is already owned to death by swarms if you do anything other than punch your AB and keep flying away. I think you may want to start running some dedicated gunners my friend, I've had my entire 6-man AV squad wrecked by 2 incubus with two specced gunners a piece. (big road map, Border Gultch?) The sheer number of rounds flying at you guarantees you'll get tagged, and it only takes 1-2 hits to kill 90% of players. All we could do is sit in the redline and try to forge them when they got close enough. One of the most depressing matches of my recent AVing career. Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10624	Posted - 2014.07.18 02:03:00 - [59] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: you are null so stfu. There is no counter to swarms therefor no buffs needed. Why is it that you only support stuff you skilled into??? Am I null? My ideas may not always be the best, but at least I present them in an organized and orderly fashion. As for counter to the Swarm Launcher, there are always: Shield Extenders Shield Hardeners Shield Boosters Afterburners Fuel Injectors Anyone with an AP Weapon Making a quick turn around a corner Taking cover etc, etc, etc... This wouldn't be a buff to the Swarm Class as a whole, as all it does is make STD and ADV Swarms effective, whilist leaving the Absolute Swarm Launcher Damage unchanged, so that is yet another null point. Does anyone here have an argument as to why this shouldn't happen besides not wanting players who can't or don't use PRO Swarm Launchers to be effective? PS: How could I not "only support what I'm skilled into" when I've invested SP into quite literally every item in the game? The Snack That Smiles Back, Tankers! -HAND
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14623	Posted - 2014.07.18 02:08:00 - [60] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Atiim wrote: The Problem Swarm Launchers have a damage increase of 25% per tier. Not only is this ridiculously higher than any other item in the game, but it makes lower tiered Swarm Launchers effectively useless as well (880 HP per volley is pathetic). The Solution My proposition, would be to make them fire the same amount of Missiles per Volley, but with 10% increments in Missile Damage per tier, which will bring it's progression in-line with other items, while making STD Swarm Launchers viable. I made a spreadsheet with the proposed changes here. I truly feel sorry for maddie drivers. This would mean ANY swarm launcher will pose a threat, and when grouped, certain death. Yup, and Atiim seems to believe that infantry are the only ones who have to skill into proto. Who knew. This also applies to Incubus, which is already owned to death by swarms if you do anything other than punch your AB and keep flying away. I think you may want to start running some dedicated gunners my friend, I've had my entire 6-man AV squad wrecked by 2 incubus with two specced gunners a piece. (big road map, Border Gultch?) The sheer number of rounds flying at you guarantees you'll get tagged, and it only takes 1-2 hits to kill 90% of players. All we could do is sit in the redline and try to forge them when they got close enough. One of the most depressing matches of my recent AVing career. I refuse to abuse bugs but thanks for the tip. I'd have to see it to believe it, I'm a terrible forge gunner and I can down most Incubus no problem, and I know you guys run a good AV squad so I'm pretty confused lol. Would really need to see that for myself. The Future



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