The Problem

Swarm Launchers have a damage increase of 25% per tier. Not only is this ridiculously higher than any other item in the game, but it makes lower tiered Swarm Launchers effectively useless as well (880 HP per volley is pathetic).

The Solution

My proposition, would be to make them fire the same amount of Missiles per Volley, but with 10% increments in Missile Damage per tier, which will bring it's progression in-line with other items, while making STD Swarm Launchers viable.

I made a spreadsheet with the proposed changes here.

Swarms already make a sacrifice for it's guidance capabilities, so this is point is null.

However, a weapon being useless at every tier below PRO is in no way balanced.

Am I null? My ideas may not always be the best, but at least I present them in an organized and orderly fashion.

As for counter to the Swarm Launcher, there are always:

• Shield Extenders
• Shield Hardeners
• Shield Boosters
• Afterburners
• Fuel Injectors
• Anyone with an AP Weapon
• Making a quick turn around a corner
• Taking cover
• etc, etc, etc...

This wouldn't be a buff to the Swarm Class as a whole, as all it does is make STD and ADV Swarms effective, whilist leaving the Absolute Swarm Launcher Damage unchanged, so that is yet another null point.

Does anyone here have an argument as to why this shouldn't happen besides not wanting players who can't or don't use PRO Swarm Launchers to be effective?

PS: How could I not "only support what I'm skilled into" when I've invested SP into quite literally every item in the game?

And this is an argument against making STD & ADV Swarm Launchers effective, how?


The moment you begin using a ScP or SMG, is the moment that you become a ScP or SMG user, not a Swarm user. That's be like me saying Large Missile users can easily rack-up kills because they can use 20GJ Railguns.

Assuming equal skill, the rifle user will always win, due to the superior stats of their sidearm equivalent. In terms of how "great" weapons are, the best would have to go to the Combat Rifle, and HMG. Assault SCPs would have a spot up there, but the RoF nerf removed that status.

Do you have an actual argument, or are you just going to stand on a soap box screaming at people because you don't want new players to stand a chance against you?


In a PRO vs PRO engagement, yes.

In a STD/ADV vs STD/ADV/PRO engagement, far from (at least where SLs are concerned).

Since always? Put any skilled player in a MLT/STD and they'll still perform well.

Null point. There's also no reason skill into something if you'd only be remotely effective at PRO, especially when other items with the same role allow you to be effective at all tiers.


This is also null, because while the STD/ADV SLs (with these new changes) will be effective, they still won't be as effective as PRO (especially compared to the efficiency of STD/ADV vs. PRO tiers found in other items).

I've already explained my reasoning through this thread, though I'd like to see your reasoning as to why they shouldn't be buffed, as so far you've presented none.


Your Python is threatened by MLT SLs? You should probably start fitting Shield Hardners.

Though I highly doubt that only 704 HP (422HP w//Hardener) forces you to take evasive action. If you find yourself doing anything but laughing at that, you have a serious problem.


Adapt to what? I already have PRO Swarms and enough ISK to lose 1000s of my AV suits and still not have to worry about ISK financially.

This change won't benefit me.

Having a 25% increase per tier while not being able to kill anything is in no way balanced.

Is that really the best you've got?