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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14614
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Posted - 2014.07.17 00:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:4 across all tiers
As a pilot I greatly dislike this change. We already have virtually no information to go off of when coming under fire, now you're removing the only indicator that tells me whether I can tank that second shot or if I have to run away because swarms just effortlessly destroy armor now.
Having no indicator other than waiting to get owned by a ton of damage is a serious minus, as well as being a hell of a lot less cool than 6 missiles flying at you.
The Future
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14617
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Posted - 2014.07.17 01:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:4 across all tiers As a pilot I greatly dislike this change. We already have virtually no information to go off of when coming under fire, now you're removing the only indicator that tells me whether I can tank that second shot or if I have to run away because swarms just effortlessly destroy armor now. Having no indicator other than waiting to get owned by a ton of damage is a serious minus, as well as being a hell of a lot less cool than 6 missiles flying at you. I would actually agree that this change will prompt risk assessment issues. However, it's not like this would be unique to swarm launchers. In fact, I don't know of any weapon, AV or AI, other than the SL that makes its tier and thus power visually apparent through its firing behavior. So I'd say we either consider this is a problem, but then it's clearly systemic that needs a global solution, or it's not which means the swarm launcher is merely getting in line with virtually every other weapons system in the game.
To be fair, every other weapon requires you to aim and to track your target. No other weapon is fire and forget.
The Future
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14619
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Posted - 2014.07.17 01:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Malkai Inos wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:4 across all tiers As a pilot I greatly dislike this change. We already have virtually no information to go off of when coming under fire, now you're removing the only indicator that tells me whether I can tank that second shot or if I have to run away because swarms just effortlessly destroy armor now. Having no indicator other than waiting to get owned by a ton of damage is a serious minus, as well as being a hell of a lot less cool than 6 missiles flying at you. I would actually agree that this change will prompt risk assessment issues. However, it's not like this would be unique to swarm launchers. In fact, I don't know of any weapon, AV or AI, other than the SL that makes its tier and thus power visually apparent through its firing behavior. So I'd say we either consider this is a problem, but then it's clearly systemic that needs a global solution, or it's not which means the swarm launcher is merely getting in line with virtually every other weapons system in the game. To be fair, every other weapon requires you to aim and to track your target. No other weapon is fire and forget. How exactly does therefore follow that swarms need this distinct behavior while other weapons don't? The range of RE's are the only weapons that don't require you to have LoS, or any physical connection for that matter, to the target. Should they too therefore have a unique mechanic to make their damage potential more easily assessable? Or something else entirely?
REs are going to 1HKO you no matter what, so you're kind of just grasping at straws here.
All I'm saying is swarm launchers are don't require you to aim in order to apply their damage, which is now quite significant, so they really don't need even more mechanics helping them apply their already significant, effortless damage. Generally speaking you're going to get hit by the first two volleys of swarms as a dropship pilot, particularly Incubus, even when you're bugging out to get away. Not having any way to know what kind of damage is coming towards you basically just assures that all we can do is fly in circles all match while some idiot spams missiles whenever we get to close.
The Future
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14619
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Posted - 2014.07.17 02:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pretty sure I fear swarms more than forge guns now. A single clip from a PRO swarm will down just about every Incubus fit without once having to aim.
At least I can dodge forge guns by being good. If I'm not already moving max speed in my bus I'm just free points for swarm launchers, and it basically just ensures that all I can do is fly away before I can even line up a shot to attempt to hit the commando that I won't be able to stay stable enough to kill in the time he kills me with his aim free weapon.
It's ok, I'm moving on to other games, I just can't wrap my head around this game anymore and I have absolutely no desire to try anymore. Just in my death throes before I stop visiting the forums as well.
The Future
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14621
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Posted - 2014.07.17 04:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Sir Dukey wrote:
Yes. 10% damage progessio. Std swarms at 800. Swarms are balanced for a fire amd forget skill-less weapon. no further buffs needed..
Swarms already make a sacrifice for it's guidance capabilities, so this is point is null. However, a weapon being useless at every tier below PRO is in no way balanced.
Except they aren't useless.
Giving every single player on the field access to highly potent, zero skill AV is just horrible for balance and removes the incentive to actually invest. Swarms can already put out more damage than forge guns more reliably in a faster frame of Time at no personal skill if the pilot does anything but burn away at Max speed with the afterburners he is FORCED to.fit if he wishes to to survive against an. auto aim weapon.
You guys.really wont stop until vehicles are just removed.from the game
The Future
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14621
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Posted - 2014.07.17 05:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Its really cute because pilots have had to "go PRO or go home" this entire time, but you just.conveniently ignore that and assume our mlt and advanced fits are totally viable in the new AV "balance" .
Swarms are definitely more reliable that forges for a weapon that takes no aim. You can evade forge shots with skill and understanding of timings. Swarms you can only run from. Your shield extender suggestion assumes a single swarm on the entire map. The second you eat that first shot you are drastically more vulnerable to all AV for an extended amount of time, and are also forced to fit weaker modules to your main tank due to CPU constraints.
Swarm launchers are now the staple weapon of skill-less players. Also, you can't fit two forge guns on a sentinel. It's so sad that you all need even more buffs to such an effortless weapon. It's embarrassing.
The Future
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14622
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Posted - 2014.07.17 20:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Atiim wrote:The Problem
Swarm Launchers have a damage increase of 25% per tier. Not only is this ridiculously higher than any other item in the game, but it makes lower tiered Swarm Launchers effectively useless as well (880 HP per volley is pathetic). The Solution
My proposition, would be to make them fire the same amount of Missiles per Volley, but with 10% increments in Missile Damage per tier, which will bring it's progression in-line with other items, while making STD Swarm Launchers viable. I made a spreadsheet with the proposed changes here. I truly feel sorry for maddie drivers. This would mean ANY swarm launcher will pose a threat, and when grouped, certain death.
Yup, and Atiim seems to believe that infantry are the only ones who have to skill into proto. Who knew.
This also applies to Incubus, which is already owned to death by swarms if you do anything other than punch your AB and keep flying away.
The Future
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14623
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Posted - 2014.07.18 02:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Atiim wrote:The Problem
Swarm Launchers have a damage increase of 25% per tier. Not only is this ridiculously higher than any other item in the game, but it makes lower tiered Swarm Launchers effectively useless as well (880 HP per volley is pathetic). The Solution
My proposition, would be to make them fire the same amount of Missiles per Volley, but with 10% increments in Missile Damage per tier, which will bring it's progression in-line with other items, while making STD Swarm Launchers viable. I made a spreadsheet with the proposed changes here. I truly feel sorry for maddie drivers. This would mean ANY swarm launcher will pose a threat, and when grouped, certain death. Yup, and Atiim seems to believe that infantry are the only ones who have to skill into proto. Who knew. This also applies to Incubus, which is already owned to death by swarms if you do anything other than punch your AB and keep flying away. I think you may want to start running some dedicated gunners my friend, I've had my entire 6-man AV squad wrecked by 2 incubus with two specced gunners a piece. (big road map, Border Gultch?) The sheer number of rounds flying at you guarantees you'll get tagged, and it only takes 1-2 hits to kill 90% of players. All we could do is sit in the redline and try to forge them when they got close enough. One of the most depressing matches of my recent AVing career. 
I refuse to abuse bugs but thanks for the tip. I'd have to see it to believe it, I'm a terrible forge gunner and I can down most Incubus no problem, and I know you guys run a good AV squad so I'm pretty confused lol. Would really need to see that for myself.
The Future
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14624
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Posted - 2014.07.18 02:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
Atiim wrote:This wouldn't be a buff to the Swarm Class as a whole, as all it does is make STD and ADV Swarms effective, whilist leaving the Absolute Swarm Launcher Damage unchanged, so that is yet another null point.
Does anyone here have an argument as to why this shouldn't happen besides not wanting players who can't or don't use PRO Swarm Launchers to be effective?
Why should a single player who refuses to skill into AV be a persistent threat all by himself to a vehicle player who is very likely fully skilled into vehicles?
Why can't he bring one other player who refuses to skill into AV to compensate for his decision to not skill into AV?
Especially considering that the weapon requires no aim.
The Future
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14624
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Posted - 2014.07.18 03:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Atiim wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:
Why should a single player who refuses to skill into AV be a persistent threat all by himself to a vehicle player who is very likely fully skilled into vehicles?
Why can't he bring one other player who refuses to skill into AV to compensate for his decision to not skill into AV?
At no point in time should any weapon of any tier be ineffective within it's niche that equipping it does more harm than good. Making vehicles "near-immune" to lower tiered Swarms is also carcinogenic to the new player experience. Though even if the weapon itself is good, it's up to the player to make good use of it. If the Pilot is truly skilled, then they'll have no problem defeating the AVer. Investment Gëá Victory DUST Fiend wrote:Especially considering that the weapon requires no aim. Swarm Launchers already make sacrifices for their guidance capabilities, so this is yet again, null.
If there was any way to avoid swarms other than running away, I would be inclined to agree with you.
Giving every single player on the field access to effortless AV that is threatening at all tiers (low tier swarms ARE threatening when not solo, wow, who knew) ensures that all we ever do is run away with the occasional fly by to steal a kill. And, of course, it further reduces the desire to fit blasters or rails since sitting still in an incubus on a field full of AV is certain death, especially with your asinine suggestion of adding a couple hundred shield HP at the expense of my armor tank and an AB.
Your wisdom pours down upon me like a waterfall from the heavens.
The Future
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14624
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Posted - 2014.07.18 07:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:Things are supposed to just barely fit.
Finding women who share that philosophy is always a pain, no pun intended
The Future
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14625
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Posted - 2014.07.18 07:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
virgindestroyer7 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Things are supposed to just barely fit. Finding women who share that philosophy is always a pain in the ass, no pun intended everyone knows forum warriors are virgins so they have no idea what this means. whether pun intended or not, no one will get it. :P
I'm a virgin, I don't get it
The Future
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14628
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Posted - 2014.07.18 07:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
virgindestroyer7 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:virgindestroyer7 wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:Baal Omniscient wrote:Things are supposed to just barely fit. Finding women who share that philosophy is always a pain in the ass, no pun intended everyone knows forum warriors are virgins so they have no idea what this means. whether pun intended or not, no one will get it. :P I'm a virgin, I don't get it hook a sister up? i didn't get this name for nothing. though i am partial to the 7 at the end of my name by now...
You can destroy me any day of the week. I heard that kinky is good, but I don't really know what that is? Is it like, when you touch their bum?
The Future
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