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Atiim
Fooly Cooly.
Anime Empire.
10530
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Posted - 2014.07.16 02:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
The Problem
Swarm Launchers have a damage increase of 25% per tier. Not only is this ridiculously higher than any other item in the game, but it makes lower tiered Swarm Launchers effectively useless as well (880 HP per volley is pathetic).
The Solution
My proposition, would be to make them fire the same amount of Missiles per Volley, but with 10% increments in Missile Damage per tier, which will bring it's progression in-line with other items, while making STD Swarm Launchers viable.
I made a spreadsheet with the proposed changes here.
The Snack That Smiles Back, Tankers!
-HAND
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ladwar
HEARTS OF PHOENIX
2010
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Posted - 2014.07.16 02:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
/signed
plus same sized missiles, same size launcher, so wtf is wrong with the basic and advanced missile launchers that prevents them from fire those missiles? really ccp. you mean to tell me they just don't launch out ever?
Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet.
I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth
doing reviews in free time, want 1?
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Malkai Inos
Any Given Day
1530
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Posted - 2014.07.16 02:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Agreed. The current progression makes the SL a prototypical noob trap.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
1046
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Posted - 2014.07.16 02:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
Atiim wrote:The Problem
Swarm Launchers have a damage increase of 25% per tier. Not only is this ridiculously higher than any other item in the game, but it makes lower tiered Swarm Launchers effectively useless as well (880 HP per volley is pathetic). The Solution
My proposition, would be to make them fire the same amount of Missiles per Volley, but with 10% increments in Missile Damage per tier, which will bring it's progression in-line with other items, while making STD Swarm Launchers viable. I made a spreadsheet with the proposed changes here.
The idea is interesting.
This gives:
880, 1100 and 1320 currently.
1056, 1188 and 1320 with your proposed changes.
I support these changes but I'd like to see the ranges of the swarm launchers increased slightly as well. Not per tier but overall.
Munch
Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1403
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Posted - 2014.07.16 03:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yet again Atiim, spot on! Have a like!
(Or three)
"Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
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taxi bastard
jihad taxi co.
145
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Posted - 2014.07.16 04:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
i agree that it would be a good move, but my biggest issue is swarm speed.
even with max unlock time the speed of the dropships with afterburners means they can even miss the second volley simply by outrunning them. |
Temias Mercurial
Knights Of Ender
RISE of LEGION
117
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Posted - 2014.07.16 07:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
taxi bastard wrote:i agree that it would be a good move, but my biggest issue is swarm speed.
even with max unlock time the speed of the dropships with afterburners means they can even miss the second volley simply by outrunning them.
The problem is that dropships simply can't take damage, as they are terribly weak, and afterburners are the only viable way to avoid anything... without them, a pilot is guaranteeing themselves for creating a spectacle of a flaming ball of fire in the sky, and they're in the damn thing...
My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
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I-Shayz-I
I----------I
4115
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Posted - 2014.07.16 10:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
My issue with having more missiles per launch is that missiles don't always hit their target.
So even with proto you could still have the potential of dealing only standard damage.
Standardizing the amount of missiles launched is a good idea.
The Assault Variant could then fire more missiles with reduced damage, how does that sound? :D
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
678
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Posted - 2014.07.16 10:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think I first supported this idea in spring 2013 or something.
Still a valid and important suggestion, though.
By the way, if we normalized all Swarm Launchers to 4 missiles per volley we'd save on performance. Less frame drops on impact for vehicle pilots is a good thing, if you ask me. Also we wouldn't be buffing knockback on dropships for STD and ADV variants. |
Will Driver
Horizons' Edge
Proficiency V.
145
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Posted - 2014.07.16 18:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
+1 from me on proposed progression for SL.
GÇ£Creativity is knowing how to hide your sourcesGÇ¥
GÇò Albert Einstein
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1159
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Posted - 2014.07.16 19:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:I think I first supported this idea in spring 2013 or something.
Still a valid and important suggestion, though.
By the way, if we normalized all Swarm Launchers to 4 missiles per volley we'd save on performance. Less frame drops on impact for vehicle pilots is a good thing, if you ask me. Also we wouldn't be buffing knockback on dropships for STD and ADV variants.
Hear hear,
this is something to keep in mind.
People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1159
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Posted - 2014.07.16 19:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:
The Assault Variant could then fire more missiles with reduced damage, how does that sound? :D
That would most likely be balanced by the amount of dps,
which means both would work the same.
The assault difference should be something else in it's functionality.
People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
1159
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Posted - 2014.07.16 19:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
taxi bastard wrote:i agree that it would be a good move, but my biggest issue is swarm speed.
even with max unlock time the speed of the dropships with afterburners means they can even miss the second volley simply by outrunning them.
This thread is not about how the best swarm launchers should fare VS some targets,
it's about how weaker tiers scale to the best ones.
People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2360
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Posted - 2014.07.16 19:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
I've always found it odd that most weapons are 5-10% difference between tiers but Swarms were 25%. While the idea of more missiles is cool, it really doesn't scale properly. I think pulling Adv and STD up to be 10% apart from Proto is very reasonable.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
2949
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Posted - 2014.07.16 19:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
o/ Atiim
Logibro mentioned in the NK thread that he'd like to squeeze Swarm changes into Charlie.
Any idea what he's referring to?
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2490
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Posted - 2014.07.16 20:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:My issue with having more missiles per launch is that missiles don't always hit their target.
So even with proto you could still have the potential of dealing only standard damage.
Standardizing the amount of missiles launched is a good idea.
The Assault Variant could then fire more missiles with reduced damage, how does that sound? :D
I personally think the assault should have a reduced damage per volley (not too much but certainly notice able) in exchange for a faster lock on and travel speed.
Tanker/Logi
0 The number of 7ucks given
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Atiim
Fooly Cooly.
Anime Empire.
10560
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Posted - 2014.07.16 20:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:
The Assault Variant could then fire more missiles with reduced damage, how does that sound? :D
That would make it even worse than it already is.
Each missile of the Swarm hits individually, so having reduced Missile Damage would result in SLs being unable to break the Shield Recharge Delay, which was one of the SL's main problems in 1.7.
The Snack That Smiles Back, Tankers!
-HAND
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Atiim
Fooly Cooly.
Anime Empire.
10560
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Posted - 2014.07.16 20:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:o/ Atiim
Logibro mentioned in the NK thread that he'd like to squeeze Swarm changes into Charlie.
Any idea what he has in mind?
I'm not too sure, but the only things I can really think of atm would be damage progression, ammunition, Swarm AI, and Air Speed improvements.
The Snack That Smiles Back, Tankers!
-HAND
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
4363
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Posted - 2014.07.16 20:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
We just looked at some swarm changes in line with this, I think reducing number of missiles per swarm and increasing swarm damage, bringing STD and ADV considerably up to PRO dmg levels
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6326
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Posted - 2014.07.16 20:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Nice way to think outside of the box. +1
Useful Links
Aeon Amadi for CPM1
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Atiim
Fooly Cooly.
Anime Empire.
10562
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Posted - 2014.07.16 21:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:We just looked at some swarm changes in line with this, I think reducing number of missiles per swarm and increasing swarm damage, bringing STD and ADV considerably up to PRO dmg levels
Thanks. This should also help improve the NPE.
Also, I edited the spreadsheet to reflect those changes.
The Snack That Smiles Back, Tankers!
-HAND
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Seymour KrelbornX
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
614
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Posted - 2014.07.16 21:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:My issue with having more missiles per launch is that missiles don't always hit their target.
So even with proto you could still have the potential of dealing only standard damage.
Standardizing the amount of missiles launched is a good idea.
The Assault Variant could then fire more missiles with reduced damage, how does that sound? :D I personally think the assault should have a reduced damage per volley (not too much but certainly notice able) in exchange for a faster lock on and travel speed.
worst idea ever.... |
Malkai Inos
Any Given Day
1536
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Posted - 2014.07.16 21:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:We just looked at some swarm changes in line with this, I think reducing number of missiles per swarm and increasing swarm damage, bringing STD and ADV considerably up to PRO dmg levels Do you mean reducing the number of missiles per swarm per tier (then boosting per-missile damage considerably) or just normalizing missiles per swarm across tiers and focusing on per missile damage for progression instead?
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2490
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Posted - 2014.07.16 22:35:00 -
[24] - Quote
Seymour KrelbornX wrote:Benjamin Ciscko wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:My issue with having more missiles per launch is that missiles don't always hit their target.
So even with proto you could still have the potential of dealing only standard damage.
Standardizing the amount of missiles launched is a good idea.
The Assault Variant could then fire more missiles with reduced damage, how does that sound? :D I personally think the assault should have a reduced damage per volley (not too much but certainly notice able) in exchange for a faster lock on and travel speed. worst idea ever....
What would you care your to busy using crutches to use actual AV weapons. Everybody wants swarms to have a faster travel time right so if your not willing to take a slight nerf then F*ck off entitled piece of Sh!t if look at the ACR it scarifies range for great CQC their is no way I am agreeing to the already high damage with a higher lock on and or travel time you to sacrifice a little something if you want to gain something no variant should just be flat out better then it's base. Provide a better idea if you'd like *******.
Tanker/Logi
0 The number of 7ucks given
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Zindorak
CaUsE-4-CoNcErN
135
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Posted - 2014.07.16 22:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
How about a breach variant which fires A FREAKING GIANT MISSILE thats does 1000 damage but longer lock time? |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2369
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Posted - 2014.07.16 23:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Malkai Inos wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:We just looked at some swarm changes in line with this, I think reducing number of missiles per swarm and increasing swarm damage, bringing STD and ADV considerably up to PRO dmg levels Do you mean reducing the number of missiles per swarm per tier (then boosting per-missile damage considerably) or just normalizing missiles per swarm across tiers and focusing on per missile damage for progression instead?
The impression I got was to reduce all swarms to fire 4 missiles, increasing PRO missiles by 50% (effective 6 missiles) and then pulling missile damage of ADV up to x% less than proto and pull STD up to x% less than ADV.
Like my ideas?
Pokey Dravon for CPM1
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Leeroy Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
502
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Posted - 2014.07.16 23:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
I like this idea.
I would like it better if it was four swarms with 330 damage than 6 swarms with 220, though.
The SL craps on my framerate when it hits me from my view angle while in first person.
It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart...
CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
4395
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Posted - 2014.07.17 00:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
4 across all tiers
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
14614
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Posted - 2014.07.17 00:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:4 across all tiers
As a pilot I greatly dislike this change. We already have virtually no information to go off of when coming under fire, now you're removing the only indicator that tells me whether I can tank that second shot or if I have to run away because swarms just effortlessly destroy armor now.
Having no indicator other than waiting to get owned by a ton of damage is a serious minus, as well as being a hell of a lot less cool than 6 missiles flying at you.
The Future
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
646
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Posted - 2014.07.17 00:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:4 across all tiers As a pilot I greatly dislike this change. We already have virtually no information to go off of when coming under fire, now you're removing the only indicator that tells me whether I can tank that second shot or if I have to run away because swarms just effortlessly destroy armor now. Having no indicator other than waiting to get owned by a ton of damage is a serious minus, as well as being a hell of a lot less cool than 6 missiles flying at you.
To be honest, I agree with you. But I also would rather have less information here and have better gameplay performance. It's swings and roundabouts. Worse frame rate, but you know it's a proto Swarmer, or better frame rate (and less impulse I should add!) but no tier information?
I'll take the frame rate thanks, since the will let me actually respond. Half the time in deciding whether I engage the AV or not is position relative to them, not damage: that is, can I draw a bead on them quickly enough (ie, between volleys) or do I just disengage and come back once I'm recharged?
Alt of Halla Murr.
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