Suggestion: As a gallente scout, assault, heavy, and logistics player, I believe that scouts should have their innate shield regeneration switched with that of the assaults. And that possibly lengthen the recharge delay of scout suits. (Generally the regeneration of health being so quick is the main issue I find with scout suits maybe add a delay to armor repair as well)

Why? Because I believe scouts should play the role of stealth and speed, if said shield changes are made it would deter scouts from attacking enemies in quick succession.

Ex: With the current hp regeneration a scout is able to Attack---->Cloak and hide for short amount of time-------Return attack again

The role of a scout is that of either speed or stealth or a combination of the two, and stamina for the Amarr, however regen is a big part of why scouts do a better job of being assaults. When scouts do an invisible attack, as in cloak, attack ,re-cloak, leave, they only take a few seconds to replenish their health and come back to attack the enemy. If you change the regen it will make assaults better at continuously "assaulting" the enemy, it will also deter scouts from doing the job of the assault because it will take longer for them to be in the condition to do so...

Look Bojo, right now is not the time for semantics, if I have to be absolutely clear, I'll correct my statement. "I believe that scouts should play the role of stealth and speed, in terms of movement."

If the health of a scout is supposed to be very low, which theoretically it should be, it wouldn't need such a high regeneration rate because it would little have hp to restore and would still take a short time to regen, though slightly longer than it does now.

I understand your scout proposal would be very applicable, however CCP does things in a certain manner, a manner which your proposal would contradict. If a penalty were to be added to tanking modules all suits would be affected by it. In other words, the form in which CCP balances this game is that of all or nothing, no "one," suit is affected by a penalty of a specific module. Cloaks for instance, high cpu/pg suits are able to use them, however it is not practical to do so because they do not get the bonus, or the dampening benefit, that scouts do, however there is nothing hindering anyone from using said cloak on anything other than scouts. This theory is also applied to logistics-assaults, and scout logistic suits.

If any change to scout suit it would dishearten scouts to tank, however it would hinder not them in anyway to attempt to tank. As assaults need a buff in order to better the suit in the role of continuous attack, or as I believe an Assault should behave, I thought would be appropriate...

Issue: Scouts and Assaults, even after the eventual buff to assaults suit, will have roles that are too similar.

Why? Because if there is no change to the scout suit there will be nothing stopping scouts from stacking hp and running as pseudo-assault suits.

Solution:Inconclusive, there are many ways to remedy said situation. The main remedy that scouts are banking on is that assaults become buffed to a point that it would be impractical for a scout to act as an assault. (Or that assaults become buffed to a point so that assault users are happy enough to forget that scouts can still perform the same role.)

Suggestion: As a gallente scout, assault, heavy, and logistics player, I believe that scouts should have their innate shield regeneration switched with that of the assaults. And that possibly lengthen the recharge delay of scout suits. (Generally the regeneration of health being so quick is the main issue I find with scout suits maybe add a delay to armor repair as well)

Why? Because I believe scouts should play the role of stealth and speed, if said shield changes are made it would deter scouts from attacking enemies in quick succession.

Ex: With the current hp regeneration a scout is able to Attack---->Cloak and hide for short amount of time-------Return attack again

With proposed change scouts will be more along the lines of Attack----->Cloak and hide for enough time to replenish------>return and attack. Assaults will use the latter method and fulfill their role at "assaulting. "

Also with said changes Caldari Scouts will be less tempted to just stack shields because the recharge time would not allow them to do so effectively. Gallente Scouts will also be less likely to become a brick tank because of the time it will take considerably longer to get shield back and armor repairers will become more attractive to run . (I thinks there should be another penalty to regeneration with the gallente scout, but it might even out because their innate armor repair is only 3hp/s not sure though)

Issue with this: Amarr and Minmatar scout will be gimped even more now that their shields(especially minmatar scout) will not replenish at the higher rate. (probably leave the recharge rates the same with these two suits so they have a better role on the battlefield, but conflicts with the whole "Caldari have the best regeneration of all suits" )

Hopefully better ideas will be given in the replies to this post, rather than just rage about not fixing scouts.

If there is anything I missed please point it out for me...

I don't like the idea of a scout not being able to use a light weapon because two of the scout suits are already ridiculously gimped in terms of being a suit. It is also a very over-simplified way to deal with the issue...

What makes slayer suits is there ability to deal damage. Limiting them to 2 sidearms gives them plenty of options. The other 2 scout suits are gimped regardless of whether or not they can for light weapons or not, and need to be addressed separately.

I do SUCK, as a scout I sympathize with your unyielding desire to keep scouts in their current position in the game. However I find your lack of constructive criticism detrimental. If you're gonna trash talk please do so in a more coherent, and or, constructive manner.

Meh I'm not the best critic for god but I'll troll all day let's let bojo explain it he's a better explainer thingy p.S he's better then me

Issue: Scouts and Assaults, even after the eventual buff to assaults suit, will have roles that are too similar.

Why? Because if there is no change to the scout suit there will be nothing stopping scouts from stacking hp and running as pseudo-assault suits.

This is why (among other reasons) the Assault role needs to be defined by it's gank not it's tank. Give Assault suits a damage push that's native to the suit.

Nerfing scouts will no more make the Assault viable than nerfing Logi will make the assault viable. Even nerfting both will just mean that the heavy suits become the only worth while option.
Assault suits need both love and uniqueness, Without making them excel within a niche (LW dps output) they will remain in contention with too many other suits because of their current status as 'mid-range generalists'.

Revisiting balance after the assault suits get the touch ups they require will, in my view, be more effective than altering the scouts (or logis) before we know what changes will ultimately come to the assault suits.

Cheers,
Cross

Scout tanks work BECAUSE they can regenerate so quickly. In terms of E-war, I do believe that one of the medium frames should be able to counter the use of invisibility, however this is not the topic of my proposal. This addresses how to deter scout from tanking health by making it unattractive. What's more unattractive than knowing that if you tank your suit the health will take too long to come back after an engagement?

With the proposed change scout will have to choose between doing their role, or making an attempt at finding a good combination of regeneration and tank modules in order to survive a battle, and act as an assault.

As I said if a scout is doing their job they shouldn't need such a high regeneration rate in order to regain all their health...

You're not bridging the connection between low HP and fast recovery.

You can't make a light suit be the medium. Here is how things work:

Heavy - High HP - Slow Speeds - Heavy Weapons or 2 Light
Medium - Medium HP - Medium Speed - Most Slots
Light - Low HP - High Speeds - eWar

This is how things work because it's on a balance scale. Every suit has a frame weight pro, con, and specialty. Your suggestion would balance as so:

Medium - Medium HP - High Regen Speed/Medium Movement - Most Slots
Light - Low HP - Medium Regen/Fast Movement- Ewar

You end up with an imbalance. The notion of trying to suggest a method of dissuading scouts from tanking is noble however as you say you have many suits and you stand less to lose from such a suggestion. CCP has already castrated scouts by nerfing eWar instead of tanking. You want to further it and castrate our regen all in the name of nerfing tank?

If you want to nerf tank then nerf tank! Why must people suggest building a 70 mile road around the problem? Scouts should not be HP tanking so why nerf regen and eWar? If you take away regen and eWar what else is left to do but tank?

Also to end on a note of lemon zest I would agree with Cross as a good direction for the Assault to take.

Unfortunately, if you had done more than just skim through this thread, you would have read my proposal that assaults should take the role of high regeneration rate and this would in fact help in their role of "continuous attack." This is would not be a nerf, it is re-balancing.

To suggest that Scouts are currently in a good spot for their would be an understatement, they are in fact excelling in all roles. Heavies only take the role of damage and hp tanking, I mean they do have regenerative but currently they equal the assault. Preventing Scouts from excelling at said assault role is also important, because it perpetuates balance.

Honestly I have not seen any good idea put together on how to stop scouts from doing the assault role beyond limiting the suit's capabilities to certain weapons, or certain amounts of hp. Though this is a simple way of prevention of said abuse it is unlikely to occur considering CCP's pattern of re-balancing the game. I understand candidates tend to say things in order to keep the majority happy, in this case scouts, however I do not approve of you brushing off my idea as a simple "Nurf da scout," thread, as this is how you answered.

I should know I'm a scout...

EDIT:
Point of clarity; My responses are made in light of the impending balance pass to Assaults and Logistics.
My assumed results of those passes in summery are as follows;

• Normalization, or near normalization of medium frame high and low slots by meta level and race
• Normalization, or near normalization of medium frame native attributes by meta and race.
• Addition of proper LW fittings and damage bonuses (by race) to the Assault frame
• Enhancement of the Logi bonus to equipment fittings
• Addition of the requirement for Logi suits to fill all equipment slots to make a valid fitting

With these changes, which are already needed in the current game state, in place the proposed changes to scouts seem to have no clearly problematic role/balance implications.

I can't make you see your folly you are hell bent that the role of the Assaults is to regen. However I am not threatened by your suggestion because it will never come true. Just like 99/100 of all suggestions.

I can't make you see your folly you are hell bent that the role of the Assaults is to regen. However I am not threatened by your suggestion because it will never come true. Just like 99/100 of all suggestions.

Thanks for clarifying Cross Atu, though I do not agree that assaults should be focused on damage output, because of the TTK issue it might bring I understand where you're coming from. I would also make it a point to remind that the assault suit is not the best in any form of eHP, because it is the second most visible, weakest (because lolscouttank), has no damage reduction. Also, I believe if scouts are able to perform the role of invisibility, and speed, and heavies HP tank, and devastating attacks, logistics medic, and intel(which needs to be somwhat buffed I believe but that's a different topic). The assault should play a role beyond just 25% more damage "IF" you use your racial weapon, in this case durability/regeneration.(assumption made from past changes to the game)

I believe that medium frames in general should be the second best in terms of durability, heavies being first, because they are unable to do their respective roles without durabilty(i.e. attack and logistics) , buffing their regeneration rate alone would help a great deal. I added that scouts should also be affected by this change because currently they are abusing the ability to regen their health quickly by tanking suits.

Unless the damage output given to assaults is monstrous, then scouts will still be rewarded more for running assaults than the actual assault suit for doing so.