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Differentiating the Assault and Commando specializations

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Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8351	Posted - 2014.05.24 19:04:00 - [1] - Quote Premise "There is too much overlap between the Assault and Commando." This is something I hear very often, and it definitely has its share of truth. Over the course of my Dust career I've dabbled in every role, but by far my most used suits are the Assault and Commando. While I can tell apart the very subtle differences between the suits and what would be a better choice in a certain situation, it has gotten to the point where after the Uprising 1.8 respec I skilled into every class except the Assault because it was too similar to the Commando to warrant another couple million of my SP. What's even more worrisome is CCP notices this as well as evident by the Commando not even existing in the current build of Project Legion. However, for the purposes of this thread let's keep the discussion to what can be done to differentiate the Assault and Commando through hotfixes in Dust 514. If successful, maybe we can see the Commandos return in Legion My Proposal Let me stress that this is just my opinion on what would make the two roles distinct. Please take it for nothing more. Use it as a starting ground to bring your own proposals to the table, or don't and bring up new proposals completely unrelated to how I do it! The point is, let's all come up with ideas and provide constructive feedback to each other. So let me begin. Currently there isn't much differentiating the two. Both specializations bring hard hitting firepower to the table, while the Assaults get a little more mobility and a smaller hitbox whereas Commandos get two light weapons and more EHP. These are some great starting points, but not nearly enough to truly differentiate the two. I would believe the problem really starts to come into play when you examine the bonuses. The Assaults generally get bonuses that extend the fight, such as Amarr being able to fire laser weaponry longer, Minmatar being able to fire more projectile rounds before reloading, and Caldari being able to reload rails faster to continue shooting again sooner. The Commandos on the other time all have bonuses that shorten the fight, with flat DPS bonuses to down the enemy quicker. When you consider that the Assault is the one with less EHP that means it is less survivable in full out firefights which means it doesn't make sense that it would want to extend the fight. Really, the bonuses are backwards. Assaults should be trying to end a fight as soon as possible, whereas a Commando should be extending it (the Dust in-game client calls Commandos "the ultimate suppression fighters"). So let's start with this: Assault Class: 5% reduction to PG/CPU of light weapons and sidearms per level Amarr Assault: 2% increased damage to laser weaponry per level Caldari Assault: 2% increased damage to hybrid - rail weaponry per level Gallente Assault: 2% increased damage to hybrid - blaster weaponry per level Minmatar Assault: 2% increased damage to projectile and explosive weaponry per level Alright so now time for the Commando. This is a little trickier because it's not as simple as simply taking all the old assault, because for one they weren't that great to begin with, secondly the Caldari Assault's bonus overlaps with the Commando class bonus, and thirdly the Gallente Assault's bonus doesn't really fit with the theme of "the ultimate suppression fighter." So what would work? Well if we are going to go for making them suppression fighters then ammo capacity seems like a logical place to look at. And if it is going to be ammo capacity, then it will have to be something significant to make it feel worth it. So how about this: Commando Class: 5% increased reload speed of light weapons and sidearms per level Amarr Commando: 20% increased ammo capacity of laser weaponry per level Caldari Commando: 20% increased ammo capacity of hybrid - rail weaponry per level Gallente Commando: 20% increased ammo capacity of hybrid - blaster weaponry per level Minmatar Commando: 20% increased ammo capacity of projectile and explosive weaponry per level Do note that for both the Assault and Commando, all bonuses apply to both light weapons and sidearms. This is because one should not be penalized for wanting to use a sidearm in the light weapon slot, as it is a cascading system. And this actually paves the way for the Assault to have two light weapon slots as discussed for Project Legion and still be distinctive enough from the Commando. Conclusion The Assault and Commando now fill two very distinctive roles. The Assault class as the speed and mobility to charge in bases or flank the enemy and then deal with them quickly, whereas the Commando is less mobile but still able to keep up with the squad and has the EHP to provide constant suppression fire with up two twice the normal ammo capacity and a fast reload speed to boot! The Commando may not be doing much killing as it won't have the strongest weapons (the Assault will) but it will be able to constantly fire for a long duration, even if it knows it is not hitting anyone, and become that "ultimate suppression fighter." Amarr are the good guys.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 535	Posted - 2014.05.24 20:46:00 - [2] - Quote I like the concept. The described roles feel distinctive and fitting. However I think a clip size bonus would be more worthwhile to a commando than additional total ammo. In an ideal situation everyone in a match should be getting a 1.0 kdr, so having lots of ammo wouldn't be very desirable. How large do think a clipsize bonus should be to make it affect the playstyle of the Commando suits and make specialization worthwhile? 5% per level? That would put an AR at 80 shots per magazine. That's a whole lot of suppression.
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 101	Posted - 2014.05.24 20:55:00 - [3] - Quote A long while ago someone said the assault needs an extra low and high slot. This is the best suggestion I've seen. GûéGûäGûà /Gûî /Gûî /Gûî Gûî GûêGûêGûàGûâGûé IGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûêGûê] GùÑGèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGû¦GèÖGùñn++
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8354	Posted - 2014.05.24 20:56:00 - [4] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: I like the concept. The described roles feel distinctive and fitting. However I think a clip size bonus would be more worthwhile to a commando than additional total ammo. In an ideal situation everyone in a match should be getting a 1.0 kdr, so having lots of ammo wouldn't be very desirable. How large do think a clipsize bonus should be to make it affect the playstyle of the Commando suits and make specialization worthwhile? 5% per level? That would put an AR at 80 shots per magazine. That's a whole lot of suppression. The concept that everyone should be getting a 1.0 KDR is a flaw in my opinion. Should a logi really be getting the same KDR as an Assault for example? It is a common flaw I see in a lot of FPS games because by their very title they are a SHOOTER which implies killing, but there are more roles in a shooter than just killing. I did consider giving the Commando a bonus to clip size instead, but that would turn it back into a slayer and then all of a sudden we have two slayer roles again (Assault and Commando) which defeats the point of trying to differentiate them. Having a large excess of ammunition would allow the Commando to provide constant streams of cover to teammates in the form of gun fire, aka suppression. This is not a foreign concept in the world of shooters, but it is one that is hard to make use of in Dust because of the low ammo capacity causing the players to make every shot count. Increasing the ammo capacity would alleviate that and shoot not to hit the target but to suppress them. With this, the five current roles in Dust become: Scout, the infiltrator Assault, the slayer Logi, the supporter Commando, the suppressor Sentinel, the defender Amarr are the good guys.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10933	Posted - 2014.05.24 21:35:00 - [5] - Quote I actually really like the current Amarr and Minmatar bonuses, I like where this is going, but I don't want to lose those. I would prefer this: Assault bonus: 2% increase in all light weapon damage per level. Amarr: 5% reduction of heat buildup on laser weaponry per level (functionally equivalent to magazine increase) Minmatar: 5% increase magazine size of projectile weaponry per level. Gallente: 5% increase in hybrid-blaster weaponry magazine size per level. Caldari: 5% increase in hybrid-rail weaponry magazine size per level. Magazine increases Commandos have 2 light weapon slots to fit, so I believe the light/sidearm weapon weapon bonus would benefit the commando bonus. I would then add the reload bonus to the racial bonus, so a commando would have magazine reserves and reload speed as a racial bonus (like how the Minmatar scout has both hacking speed and nova knife damage). Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8355	Posted - 2014.05.24 21:45:00 - [6] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I actually really like the current Amarr and Minmatar bonuses, I like where this is going, but I don't want to lose those. I would prefer this: Assault bonus: 2% increase in all light weapon damage per level. Amarr: 5% reduction of heat buildup on laser weaponry per level (functionally equivalent to magazine increase) Minmatar: 5% increase magazine size of projectile weaponry per level. Gallente: 5% increase in hybrid-blaster weaponry magazine size per level. Caldari: 5% increase in hybrid-rail weaponry magazine size per level. Magazine increases and similar bonuses (like the Amarr heat reduction bonus) are the only current racial assault bonuses that are really worth it, so I would extend it to all assaults. Commandos have 2 light weapon slots to fit, so I believe the light/sidearm weapon weapon bonus would benefit the commando bonus. I would then add the reload bonus to the racial bonus, so a commando would have magazine reserves and reload speed as a racial bonus (like how the Minmatar scout has both hacking speed and nova knife damage). Thinking about it, I completely agree with you. Putting those skills as the class bonus would allow the suits to use any weapon and still get the primary benefit of the specialization, and then have the racial bonuses be the slighter bonuses for super specialized people. I'm going to update my OP with these suggestions. Amarr are the good guys.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 10933	Posted - 2014.05.24 21:55:00 - [7] - Quote Oh, and you're back in our Skype group, whether you like it or not. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 723	Posted - 2014.05.25 00:53:00 - [8] - Quote I really like these bonuses. Instead of being able to fit proto weapons easier on an assault, fitting a standard one would be proto equivalent because the damage difference is 10%. Also it would give people a reason to use a Gallente or Caldari assault over the commando for doing assaulty type stuff while making the difference between the assault and role clear and not overlap like how the Cal assault has the same bonus as a commando, reload speed. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. Scanned scouts aren't dead scouts, they're +600HP scouts.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 309	Posted - 2014.05.25 18:48:00 - [9] - Quote the commando is the opposite of the sentinel and does the most damage but trades defense. the assault is in between, and doesnt deal as much deal damage as a commando or take as much damage as a sentinel but it recovers faster from changes in battle, such as being flanked or needing to exploit a weakness in the enemies defenses. you cant do that as a heavy suit. assualt suits honestly are general purpose combat suits that allow you to provide some level of offense and defense without sacrificing your ability to quickly react to and/or recover from changes in the battlefield. as such i think assaults suits should have one bonus related to offense and one bonus related to defense. for assaults: Amarr: 5% per level to armor plate efficacy, 5% per level to laser weaponry heat build up Caldari: 5% per level to shield extender efficacy, 5% per level to railgun weaponry optimal range Gallente: 5% per level to armor repair efficacy, 2% per level to blaster weaponry damage Minmatar: 5% per level to biotic efficacy, 5% per level to projectile and explosive weaponry rof for commandos id increase racial weapon damage to 3% per level and keep the reload bonus.
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 732	Posted - 2014.06.05 01:27:00 - [10] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: the commando is the opposite of the sentinel and does the most damage but trades defense. the assault is in between, and doesnt deal as much deal damage as a commando or take as much damage as a sentinel but it recovers faster from changes in battle, such as being flanked or needing to exploit a weakness in the enemies defenses. you cant do that as a heavy suit. assualt suits honestly are general purpose combat suits that allow you to provide some level of offense and defense without sacrificing your ability to quickly react to and/or recover from changes in the battlefield. as such i think assaults suits should have one bonus related to offense and one bonus related to defense. for assaults: Amarr: 5% per level to armor plate efficacy, 5% per level to laser weaponry heat build up Caldari: 5% per level to shield extender efficacy, 5% per level to railgun weaponry optimal range Gallente: 5% per level to armor repair efficacy, 2% per level to blaster weaponry damage Minmatar: 5% per level to biotic efficacy, 5% per level to projectile and explosive weaponry rof for commandos id increase racial weapon damage to 3% per level and keep the reload bonus. I am apposed to that role/classification for commando and what you're suggesting would make it a better slayer than assaults, and make assaults better at tanking which would make them have commando like HP, which would further blur the distinction between the too. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. Scanned scouts aren't dead scouts, they're +600HP scouts.

Cyrus Militani 101	Posted - 2014.06.05 01:33:00 - [11] - Quote I would like to see the Commando removed and the Assault given that second light weapon slot. If they're going to do it in Legion they might as well do it in DUST. The Commando is jokingly referred to as "a fake heavy" anyway. Less health, but just as slow. The only issue with that is the heavy having only one specialization, like the scout. But to be honest, I'm not sure what other specializations you can have for a heavy. Even pilot is stretching it for the light frames.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11007	Posted - 2014.06.06 04:11:00 - [12] - Quote STILL WANT Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2174	Posted - 2014.06.06 05:23:00 - [13] - Quote Commando will not be removed, nor Assault given two weapons in DUST 514 "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2268	Posted - 2014.06.06 05:30:00 - [14] - Quote How, and why, have I never seen this thread before. Thanks Kagehoshi for pointing me here o7 Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11009	Posted - 2014.06.06 05:38:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Commando will not be removed, nor Assault given two weapons in DUST 514 Would you consider the bonus changes proposed? Both I (an assault and logi), and Aero (the king of commandos) agree on them, and as supreme rulers of stuff, we deserve to impose our will on the rest of the community. Seriously though, even if you don't give the assaults the damage bonus, the Caldari and Gallente bonuses should be changed to magazine size; the current ones just suck. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
MINA Longstrike 827	Posted - 2014.06.06 05:40:00 - [16] - Quote I find that most of the commando's I've seen play the role because they like the sheer amount of options provided for regular anti-infantry play with the pocket option of being able to AV as well in a pinch. It has been what's shot the commando into some form of popularity. Play to that strength. My gallente commando friend loves packing around a gek and a plc - he can 1shot heavies if he's accurate and do some av work without screwing himself versus infantry. The reload speed bonus is wonderful and the damage bonus works too. They get their choice of blaster rifle, blaster shotgun and plasma cannon. Minmatar commando gets its choice of three weapons - one of which is av - and its fast. It is by far the most popular commando. Getting their choice of swarm, combat rifle and mass driver. Caldari and Amarr are much less popular due to only having two weapons with some overlap. The amarr get the scr and the lr and are essentially the ultimate suppression fighter but have no av choices, while the caldari get the rr and the sniper and have very niche suppression / assassination use. Make the commandos the 'light av specialist' infantry frames that can still defend themselves versus other players. How should this be done? Ramp up the breach mass drivers damage versus vehicles by a lot (700-900 direct damage per shot keeping the explosive damage profile), change swarms to be flagged as hybrid type damage (and possibly allow assault swarms to lock infantry players - this is just something I'd like to see though). Finally the amarr need to have some form of light av weapon for their commando, it could be swarms in the interim until they get their own but they must get more weapons That's just my thoughts. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2176	Posted - 2014.06.06 06:11:00 - [17] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Commando will not be removed, nor Assault given two weapons in DUST 514 Would you consider the bonus changes proposed? Both I (an assault and logi), and Aero (the king of commandos) agree on them, and as supreme rulers of stuff, we deserve to impose our will on the rest of the community. Seriously though, even if you don't give the assaults the damage bonus, the Caldari and Gallente bonuses should be changed to magazine size; the current ones just suck. Sure, they are valuable feedback "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2269	Posted - 2014.06.06 06:37:00 - [18] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Commando will not be removed, nor Assault given two weapons in DUST 514 Would you consider the bonus changes proposed? Both I (an assault and logi), and Aero (the king of commandos) agree on them, and as supreme rulers of stuff, we deserve to impose our will on the rest of the community. Seriously though, even if you don't give the assaults the damage bonus, the Caldari and Gallente bonuses should be changed to magazine size; the current ones just suck. I'm in full support of an assault bonus rework, more racial flavor, more gank, more tactical flex/effect. I'm not "married" to a specific method but the assaults clearly need some work and there's a solid discussion going on here. CCP Rattati if there's a specific role vision in place for the assault could you elaborate please so that we as a community here assembled can apply our efforts to honing the idea/direction that has been selected? I think clearly we all want them to be viable, so let's collaborate on how. Cheers, Cross Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5960	Posted - 2014.06.06 06:43:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Commando will not be removed, nor Assault given two weapons in DUST 514 Would you consider the bonus changes proposed? Both I (an assault and logi), and Aero (the king of commandos) agree on them, and as supreme rulers of stuff, we deserve to impose our will on the rest of the community. Seriously though, even if you don't give the assaults the damage bonus, the Caldari and Gallente bonuses should be changed to magazine size; the current ones just suck. Sure, they are valuable feedback IMO, Assaults could use the Damage Bonus while Commandos could use the Magazine Size increase... I think it'd be nice to turn Commandos into the Suppression kings since they're already utilizing two light weapons, while the Assault remains better for frontline combat. Just my opinion though. Something terrifying about a Caldari Commando utilizing a Assault Rail Rifle with an extended magazine. Dunno, need more time to think about it, myself. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 314	Posted - 2014.06.06 12:37:00 - [20] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Commando will not be removed, nor Assault given two weapons in DUST 514 Would you consider the bonus changes proposed? Both I (an assault and logi), and Aero (the king of commandos) agree on them, and as supreme rulers of stuff, we deserve to impose our will on the rest of the community. Seriously though, even if you don't give the assaults the damage bonus, the Caldari and Gallente bonuses should be changed to magazine size; the current ones just suck. Sure, they are valuable feedback IMO, Assaults could use the Damage Bonus while Commandos could use the Magazine Size increase... I think it'd be nice to turn Commandos into the Suppression kings since they're already utilizing two light weapons, while the Assault remains better for frontline combat. Just my opinion though. Something terrifying about a Caldari Commando utilizing a Assault Rail Rifle with an extended magazine. Dunno, need more time to think about it, myself. magazine size increase is redundant since you can already skip reloading by running two of the same type weapon and switching between them when one empties, then reloading both when done. what practical use is there for shooting your gun an extra second longer instead of just reloading your weapon and getting a fresh clip? do assault combat rifles need bigger clips too? laser weapons have heat, so they dont benefit from bigger magazines. Ive seen you guys pushing for bigger magazines for months now and it still doesnt makes any practical sense. CCP should just give you guys some officer weapons with bigger magazines so you can be done with this idea already

Mordecai Sanguine What The French Red Whines. 702	Posted - 2014.06.06 12:41:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Commando will not be removed, nor Assault given two weapons in DUST 514 Would you consider the bonus changes proposed? Both I (an assault and logi), and Aero (the king of commandos) agree on them, and as supreme rulers of stuff, we deserve to impose our will on the rest of the community. Seriously though, even if you don't give the assaults the damage bonus, the Caldari and Gallente bonuses should be changed to magazine size; the current ones just suck. Sure, they are valuable feedback Ammo capacity AND reload speed bonus ? WTF ? This is so useless. Actually Reload speed is actually useless on Amarr Commandos because Amarr weapons don't reload that much. Ammo capacity, same. Would buried this entire class.
MINA Longstrike 827	Posted - 2014.06.06 12:47:00 - [22] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Commando will not be removed, nor Assault given two weapons in DUST 514 Would you consider the bonus changes proposed? Both I (an assault and logi), and Aero (the king of commandos) agree on them, and as supreme rulers of stuff, we deserve to impose our will on the rest of the community. Seriously though, even if you don't give the assaults the damage bonus, the Caldari and Gallente bonuses should be changed to magazine size; the current ones just suck. Sure, they are valuable feedback Ammo capacity AND reload speed bonus ? WTF ? This is so useless. Actually Reload speed is actually useless on Amarr Commandos because Amarr weapons don't reload that much. Ammo capacity, same. Would buried this entire class. Clearly you've never used a laser rifle or an assault SCR. You reload those things all the **ing time. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.** I have a few alts.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1275	Posted - 2014.06.06 13:42:00 - [23] - Quote I think it would be better to have an increase in magazine size per level on commandos. Suppression is only useful if it is constant and uninterrupted. Larger magazines mean you can keep putting fire downrange when your enemy is being forced to reload. I would also change the reload bonus to max ammo. Synergizes well with the increased magazine size. That's what you get!! - DA Rick
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 238	Posted - 2014.06.06 13:55:00 - [24] - Quote Op in regards to the Amarr Commando, your idea would be taking the Amarr commando out back and breaking both of its knee caps. Laser weapons don't need faster reload times, especially not the regular scrambler rifle, the bonus is a complete waste as proposed both sides of it for the Amarr. For the Amarr it would actually be more benefical with your proposed to use other weapons that are not laser based. Second for the Amarr Assault, you just gave it a double bonus to damage that it didn't have before, laser rifles gain bonus damage over the period of time that they are active, then ontop of that you placed a 2% dmg bonus. In regards to the scrambler rifle it would lengthen how many shots could be shot and increase the dps and damage substantially. This would grossly destroy the balance between Amarr Commando and Amarr Assault. Not only that but assault suits are getting a rework for hotfix beta, (no clue when it might be out) with the slot layout increasing the survivability of them. While your idea does have great merit, I believe the targeted bonuses need to be changed so not to provide great imbalance within the game least for the Amarr.
Toby Flenderson research lab 542	Posted - 2014.06.06 17:03:00 - [25] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Commando will not be removed, nor Assault given two weapons in DUST 514 Would you consider the bonus changes proposed? Both I (an assault and logi), and Aero (the king of commandos) agree on them, and as supreme rulers of stuff, we deserve to impose our will on the rest of the community. Seriously though, even if you don't give the assaults the damage bonus, the Caldari and Gallente bonuses should be changed to magazine size; the current ones just suck. I love the gallente bonus. It also helps hip fire the ion pistol very reliably. It allows for better rangers encounters for the AR in the sense of recoil reduction and increases the spray and pray abilities at slightly further ranges than merely "close". I'd be really annoyed if they changed the bonus so soon after releasing it.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 88	Posted - 2014.06.07 17:26:00 - [26] - Quote first of all... most people who skilled into the commando suit did so for the damage bonuses following the damage mod nerf so if you now change the suit they apply to, don't expect people to not expect a respec. secondly as a sniper this would be the final nail in the coffin as you are talking about removing 10% of our damage ability and also reducing our health as well as removing our av side weapons. I wouldn't mind an assult suit to use as long as I get a respec and av grenades that do genuine damage to dropships first or if the sniper rifles get a buff which renders relying on the extra damage moot.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8414	Posted - 2014.06.07 21:17:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Commando will not be removed, nor Assault given two weapons in DUST 514 Of course not, but from all we've heard of Legion that seems to be the case. Sure they say the Commando isn't ruled out for Legion, but the outlook sure seems grim. I suppose I am simply confused that if you think giving the Assault two light weapons in Dust 514 is a bad idea then why is it suddenly a good idea in Legion? Both could exist with multiple light weapons without any redundancy, that is all I'm saying. Amarr are the good guys.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8414	Posted - 2014.06.07 21:22:00 - [28] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Commando will not be removed, nor Assault given two weapons in DUST 514 Would you consider the bonus changes proposed? Both I (an assault and logi), and Aero (the king of commandos) agree on them, and as supreme rulers of stuff, we deserve to impose our will on the rest of the community. Seriously though, even if you don't give the assaults the damage bonus, the Caldari and Gallente bonuses should be changed to magazine size; the current ones just suck. Sure, they are valuable feedback Ammo capacity AND reload speed bonus ? WTF ? This is so useless. Actually Reload speed is actually useless on Amarr Commandos because Amarr weapons don't reload that much. Ammo capacity, same. Would buried this entire class. Have you ever used a laser rifle, bro? Reload a ton and run out of ammo fast. Same with assault scrambler. Not so much the normal scrambler, but hey that is 2 out of 3. Amarr are the good guys.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8414	Posted - 2014.06.07 21:25:00 - [29] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: Op in regards to the Amarr Commando, your idea would be taking the Amarr commando out back and breaking both of its knee caps. Laser weapons don't need faster reload times, especially not the regular scrambler rifle, the bonus is a complete waste as proposed both sides of it for the Amarr. For the Amarr it would actually be more benefical with your proposed to use other weapons that are not laser based. Second for the Amarr Assault, you just gave it a double bonus to damage that it didn't have before, laser rifles gain bonus damage over the period of time that they are active, then ontop of that you placed a 2% dmg bonus. In regards to the scrambler rifle it would lengthen how many shots could be shot and increase the dps and damage substantially. This would grossly destroy the balance between Amarr Commando and Amarr Assault. Not only that but assault suits are getting a rework for hotfix beta, (no clue when it might be out) with the slot layout increasing the survivability of them. While your idea does have great merit, I believe the targeted bonuses need to be changed so not to provide great imbalance within the game least for the Amarr. Again, it's only one out of the three Amarr light weapons that it would have minimal benefit too. I play the Amarr commando all the time, this would in no way break its knees. Also the whole gesture of "This would grossly destroy the balance between Amarr Commando and Amarr Assault." Really? I mean, really? I have a feeling your implying this based on killing capability. And if so, you missed the entire point of this thread. Not every role is supposed to be a straight up slayer. The commando would focus on suppression, not necessarily killing, while the assault is your bread and butter slayer. Amarr are the good guys.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 316	Posted - 2014.06.08 02:17:00 - [30] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: lithkul devant wrote: Op in regards to the Amarr Commando, your idea would be taking the Amarr commando out back and breaking both of its knee caps. Laser weapons don't need faster reload times, especially not the regular scrambler rifle, the bonus is a complete waste as proposed both sides of it for the Amarr. For the Amarr it would actually be more benefical with your proposed to use other weapons that are not laser based. Second for the Amarr Assault, you just gave it a double bonus to damage that it didn't have before, laser rifles gain bonus damage over the period of time that they are active, then ontop of that you placed a 2% dmg bonus. In regards to the scrambler rifle it would lengthen how many shots could be shot and increase the dps and damage substantially. This would grossly destroy the balance between Amarr Commando and Amarr Assault. Not only that but assault suits are getting a rework for hotfix beta, (no clue when it might be out) with the slot layout increasing the survivability of them. While your idea does have great merit, I believe the targeted bonuses need to be changed so not to provide great imbalance within the game least for the Amarr. Again, it's only one out of the three Amarr light weapons that it would have minimal benefit too. I play the Amarr commando all the time, this would in no way break its knees. Also the whole gesture of "This would grossly destroy the balance between Amarr Commando and Amarr Assault." Really? I mean, really? I have a feeling your implying this based on killing capability. And if so, you missed the entire point of this thread. Not every role is supposed to be a straight up slayer. The commando would focus on suppression, not necessarily killing, while the assault is your bread and butter slayer. someone explain to me how they intend to capitalize on increased magazine sizes for laser weapons. those weapons are limited by heat, not their magazines. a useless bonus. and other weapons are balanced because they small magazine sizes. you would imbalance some weapon liks the ARR and ACR. the other issue with focusing on suppression is that nobody gets kills for that role. people want to kill their enemy not scare them lol. and idk how many times ive said it, but running dual weapon setups IS a suppression fit. its double ammo for the weapon. laser weapons can be swapped before they over heat so that you can fire indefinitely. i dont not need a bonus for something i can do already.



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