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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Firbolg Barun
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
12
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Posted - 2014.05.23 15:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
D1CK, you really need to study turrets in EVE.
Minmatar artillery turrets are also long range high alpha, low RoF, just like rail turrets.
Players are asking for an anti shield mass driver, a variant of the PLC can fit this role. It makes sense, even to CCP, at this point.
Plasers are also asking for good anti shield AV, a role that a plasma cannon variant could fill as well.
Lets just discuss how to make these two weapon variants useful/not too poweful/very cool, instead of discussing if they should even be done, because the answer to new weapon variants should always be a cheering crowd of "Yeeeeeeah!".
xD
Sincerely, a plasma cannon user since Uprising 1.0.
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Firbolg Barun
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
12
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Posted - 2014.05.23 16:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ghaz,
If alpha dmg of regular Proto PLC would equal alpha dmg of Proto assault forge gun (no prof on either), what would the resulting PLC dps be?
What about with breach forge alpha without prof?
P.S. Spectral Clone here, my main got banned :( |
TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
1075
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Posted - 2014.05.23 16:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
You dont geddit mang ....
The Plasma Cannon IS the anti-shield Mass Driver !!!!
And I have waited a seriously long time for variants, so I'm really hoping they don't F*** up
I want the variants, as I said the Beach should almost be firing a nuke, provided it had drawbacks
The Assault is tricky because the the Gallente weapons are Assault variants... So you see my issue here
What we have now is the Assault cannon, the others need to perform differently, hence why I ask for the
Assault variant to be an AV variant as there is no Assault PLC needed, I will reply with a link to a previous more detailed post
'D1CK by name'
'D1CK by nature'
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
1075
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Posted - 2014.05.23 16:20:00 -
[34] - Quote
It is not designed to be the typical Slayer weapon most players rely on....
It deals high damage to all suits, 98% OHK with prof.5 (Stack heavy's barely survive)
Vehicles it can under-perform due to hardeners and reps between shots
But as far as I can recall the in-game description states that
It is meant for anti-infantry suppression, which it performs perfectly
Unlike some weapons, it is working as stated ....
To buff it would create another FoTm and eventually be nerfed
The only realistic additions I can see are keeping the PLC
And introducing variants, which I have though a lot about
- Breach Variant, same old breach, slow but deadly (1500-2000DMG)??
- Assault Variant, this is trickier as you need to avoid spam fire
but I would highly recommend that they use the idea of
lasting burning DMG with less direct hit DMG
^^ If you don't see the potential in specialist AV with this then I can't help you
Faster shots/larger clipsize, make it just a seriously OP Mass Driver Pirate
I have used this weapon since it's release, and people who have gamed with me
have seen how it can dominate infantry when used effectively in a squad,
also they have seen the many occasions where the weapon is in-effective
But the flaws are required to balance the DMG from Plasma Cannons
The difficulty of judging trajectory, enemy movement and using cover effectively
during reload times and re-stocking, or when there is no way in hell your taking down
5 pimped out AR's X
Anyone looking for a buff is just asking for a crutch to spec into
I appreciate the other posters who have realized the potential with PLC
'D1CK by name'
'D1CK by nature'
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
464
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Posted - 2014.05.23 17:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
The issue with the comparison here is that the swarmer can't attack infantry at all. Keep that in mind.
That said, I like the proposals for Assault and Breach variants.
I want to add a Tac variant:
Longer range, faster projectile speed and longer charge.
The perfect interceptor for dropships.
The roles would be:
Assault: Easier to use due to higher clip, less vulnerable to infantry, very effective against LAVs and good at mid-range ADS encounters, but bad against HAV
Breach: Tank buster with significant anti-infantry drawback and a hard time hitting LAVs, with dropships needing to worry only about very few shots
Vanilla: Can fight infantry moderately well and is usable against all vehicle types, but doesn't excel in any area
Tac: Takes down ADS, is slightly weaker against infantry in close combat, but stronger at range due to an easier aim. Generally good at taking down nimble high-HP targets, like ADS and sped-up HAVs, while being weaker than the Breach against those same targets if they don't move much
So, any ideas for a burst variant? Tri-rocket launcher, anyone?
P.S.
Can we get some calculations for Commandos?
Gallente/Minmatar grant rather good 10% damage bonuses and the reload speed buff is far more effective for the PLC than the Swarmer, due to reloading after every shot. |
Chit Hoppened
The Exemplars
Top Men.
322
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Posted - 2014.05.23 17:33:00 -
[36] - Quote
Why don't you just knock off some reload time and trollsy lock time and give 80%* of the normal PLC damage for the Assault variant?
So instead of a HUGE time between shots you cut it nearly in half (~25-40%*) since the Assault variants are essentially faster RoF weapons with slightly lower damages.
The Breach should be basically the exact opposite; longer shot times but insanely jacked up damages.**
*I ain't so good at maths.
**All this is based off of using the PLC vs both kinds of HAVs since it is supposed to be "a shield busting AV weapon".
Bringing Heavy Metal to New Eden.
Cannon Fever Representative
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Yoma Carrim
Arrogance.
Dark Taboo
555
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Posted - 2014.05.23 17:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:There has been a change. I found some inconsistencies with the spreadhseet... swarm launcher now stand at 808 DPS at level 5 and rapid reload level 5 UPDATED Spreadsheet
Sorry Ghazabaran that's not the right link to your spreadsheet its the link to Hotfix Alpha
Oh Heck
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
Proficiency V.
1367
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Posted - 2014.05.23 17:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
Yoma Carrim wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:There has been a change. I found some inconsistencies with the spreadhseet... swarm launcher now stand at 808 DPS at level 5 and rapid reload level 5 UPDATED Spreadsheet Sorry Ghazabaran that's not the right link to your spreadsheet its the link to Hotfix Alpha
Darn my bad ^^ I'll fix it right now
HERE
Plasma Cannon Advocate
Dust 514 Survivor
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Yoma Carrim
Arrogance.
Dark Taboo
555
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Posted - 2014.05.23 17:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Yoma Carrim wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:There has been a change. I found some inconsistencies with the spreadhseet... swarm launcher now stand at 808 DPS at level 5 and rapid reload level 5 UPDATED Spreadsheet Sorry Ghazabaran that's not the right link to your spreadsheet its the link to Hotfix Alpha Darn my bad ^^ I'll fix it right now HERE
thank you
Oh Heck
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Yoma Carrim
Arrogance.
Dark Taboo
555
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Posted - 2014.05.23 18:04:00 -
[40] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:There has been a change. I found some inconsistencies with the spreadhseet... swarm launcher now stand at 808 DPS at level 5 and rapid reload level 5 UPDATED Spreadsheet
Quick question is the 808 DPS for the SL at STD or Proto lvl?
I know the spreadsheet says that its STD with RR lvl5, but it just seams questionable that the STD would have a higher total damage without proficiency skills.
Oh Heck
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sabre prime
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
266
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Posted - 2014.05.23 18:15:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
...]Can you do me a favor and compare to the forge. I would appreciate the insights as I know you are one of the PLC experts.
...Why don't you guys throw up some designs, don't wait for us.
Crowd sourcing game development/free labour? 
Not to seem bad, but these things are your full time jobs CCP.
Desperate attempt to get BPOs
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Grimmiers
563
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Posted - 2014.05.23 18:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Would it be possible to make it so the plc has 1 clip that can provide multiple shots? If you did this you could charge it up all the way for full damage, or do partial charged shots for more potential damage per second. You might have to change the clip to read a percentage, but I think this would blur the line between assault and breach making the plc more versatile.
I used the current proto damage to show how damage would scale with partial charges.
1/3 shot = 595 direct 150 splash (43%)
1/2 shot = 831.6 direct 206 splash (60%)
full shot = 1386 direct 375 splash(100%)
Although it would be a lot easier to just balance something with a fixed clip size.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
13673
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Posted - 2014.05.23 18:36:00 -
[43] - Quote
sabre prime wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
...]Can you do me a favor and compare to the forge. I would appreciate the insights as I know you are one of the PLC experts.
...Why don't you guys throw up some designs, don't wait for us.
Crowd sourcing game development/free labour? Not to seem bad, but these things are your full time jobs CCP.
When devs don't ask for feedback, people ***** and whine about them not listening.
When devs ask for feedback, people ***** and whine about how it's their job to do that.
This is why we can't have nice things.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Cross Atu for CPM1
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
Proficiency V.
1368
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Posted - 2014.05.23 18:39:00 -
[44] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:sabre prime wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
...]Can you do me a favor and compare to the forge. I would appreciate the insights as I know you are one of the PLC experts.
...Why don't you guys throw up some designs, don't wait for us.
Crowd sourcing game development/free labour? Not to seem bad, but these things are your full time jobs CCP. When devs don't ask for feedback, people ***** and whine about them not listening. When devs ask for feedback, people ***** and whine about how it's their job to do that. This is why we can't have nice things.
I completely agree.... Feedback is an integral art of the development process. I have trolled before but this seems serious enough that it merits serious responses.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
Dust 514 Survivor
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sabre prime
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
266
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Posted - 2014.05.23 18:47:00 -
[45] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:sabre prime wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
...]Can you do me a favor and compare to the forge. I would appreciate the insights as I know you are one of the PLC experts.
...Why don't you guys throw up some designs, don't wait for us.
Crowd sourcing game development/free labour? Not to seem bad, but these things are your full time jobs CCP. When devs don't ask for feedback, people ***** and whine about them not listening. When devs ask for feedback, people ***** and whine about how it's their job to do that. This is why we can't have nice things.
I'm not whining or complaining. But asking players to go and crunch the numbers is not feedback. CCP should do the stats comparison between the PLC and forge guns, as part of their own internal processes. In the context of how haphazard this games development has been, I just felt that it was worth calling out a little.
That is all.
Desperate attempt to get BPOs
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
Proficiency V.
1368
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Posted - 2014.05.23 18:53:00 -
[46] - Quote
sabre prime wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:sabre prime wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
...]Can you do me a favor and compare to the forge. I would appreciate the insights as I know you are one of the PLC experts.
...Why don't you guys throw up some designs, don't wait for us.
Crowd sourcing game development/free labour? Not to seem bad, but these things are your full time jobs CCP. When devs don't ask for feedback, people ***** and whine about them not listening. When devs ask for feedback, people ***** and whine about how it's their job to do that. This is why we can't have nice things. I'm not whining or complaining. But asking players to go and crunch the numbers is not feedback. CCP should do the stats comparison between the PLC and forge guns, as part of their own internal processes. In the context of how haphazard this games development has been, I just felt that it was worth calling out a little. That is all.
To be fair I feel Rattati is taking on a big job. The game is riddled with a lot of issues and he has come up with changes quicker than we have experienced in the last year.
He has been responding to our suggestions diligently and something I respect him for is that he live's in SHanghai. At the time he asked for feedback it was 10PM over there. So if he felt tired as all human beings do, it's more than ok for him to ask it of us who do this for FUN and then get on with our lives.
So please man I understand that CCP has not been very accommodating of the community but I really do hope that the community shows a bit more respect to about the only person trying to get DUST back together again.
again I understand your frustrations of the past but these weeks have been the first time we see CCP Rattati dealing with balancing issueas. He has a lot on his plate and if you enjoy this game and want to make it better, reserve your bad thought and give some feedback a try.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
Dust 514 Survivor
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sabre prime
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
266
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Posted - 2014.05.23 18:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:sabre prime wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
...]Can you do me a favor and compare to the forge. I would appreciate the insights as I know you are one of the PLC experts.
...Why don't you guys throw up some designs, don't wait for us.
Crowd sourcing game development/free labour? Not to seem bad, but these things are your full time jobs CCP. When devs don't ask for feedback, people ***** and whine about them not listening. When devs ask for feedback, people ***** and whine about how it's their job to do that. This is why we can't have nice things. I completely agree.... Feedback is an integral art of the development process. I have trolled before but this seems serious enough that it merits serious responses.
It's not your job to do that Ghaz. You have a great enthusiasm for this game, and contribute excellent feedback. But CCP takes the biscuit sometimes. Do a comprehensive job, and then ask you players for feedback.
I don't want this thread to veer off topic. Please go back to constructively discussing the PLC.
Desperate attempt to get BPOs
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Kain Spero
3576
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Posted - 2014.05.23 19:12:00 -
[48] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
When devs don't ask for feedback, people ***** and whine about them not listening.
When devs ask for feedback, people ***** and whine about how it's their job to do that.
This is why we can't have nice things.
I couldn't agree more. There is nothing wrong with players and devs working together for the common goal of making a better game.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and CPM news
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
Proficiency V.
1369
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Posted - 2014.05.23 19:18:00 -
[49] - Quote
Made A New thread proposing new numbers
Here is The link
Plasma Cannon Advocate
Dust 514 Survivor
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ANON Cerberus
Tiny Toons
751
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Posted - 2014.05.23 19:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:sabre prime wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
...]Can you do me a favor and compare to the forge. I would appreciate the insights as I know you are one of the PLC experts.
...Why don't you guys throw up some designs, don't wait for us.
Crowd sourcing game development/free labour? Not to seem bad, but these things are your full time jobs CCP. When devs don't ask for feedback, people ***** and whine about them not listening. When devs ask for feedback, people ***** and whine about how it's their job to do that. This is why we can't have nice things.
The forums man....
CCP please keep doing what you have been doing. Good discussion going, arguably some of the most crucial changes can be made to the game - back end with numbers tweaks and stuff on CCP`s end. |
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Firbolg Barun
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
16
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Posted - 2014.05.23 19:38:00 -
[51] - Quote
CCP Rattati will indeed wake up to a pleasant read! |
MINA Longstrike
784
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Posted - 2014.05.23 20:08:00 -
[52] - Quote
I would be in favor of the base PLC going up to 1450 direct damage a shot, fiddle with the splash a little if you want to but I want this thing to *HURT* on direct hits. An assault could keep the current damage but get that extra round, and a breach could maybe have 1700 damage / shot (remember there is a long reload between each shot and the PLC isn't exactly as 'center something in the reticule to kill it' like the forge is).
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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RKKR
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
924
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Posted - 2014.05.23 22:13:00 -
[53] - Quote
Made a post in this thread...2 threads is confusing... |
Moonracer2000
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
803
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Posted - 2014.05.24 00:24:00 -
[54] - Quote
I can't help but notice players pointing out that PLC is a high skill, low DPS weapon and the resulting discussion is is how to make variants that are effective. Would it not make more sense to balance the PLC we have now so that it is viable before making assault/breach variants?
Otherwise it will be just another weapon people don't use until they skill up to level 4 to get the assault variant. |
The-Errorist
SVER True Blood
718
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Posted - 2014.05.24 00:46:00 -
[55] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Firbolg Barun wrote:Also, it doesnt make sense to have equal or lower dps on a CQC skillshot AV weapon (blaster) as a rail based weapon (even if its light vs heavy in this case) due to the risk you must take to get close to the tanks.
Plasma cannon has to have a huuuuge alpha due to the nature of the weapon, but a low dps compared to the forge gun.
I very much agree, but I also understand CCP iterating in smaller increments but more often. I've been a big advocate of the PLC getting breach forge gun like alpha. Although that may be far too extreme ^.^
Also the PLC uses a hybrid plasma based tech and the FG uses hybrid rail based tech, so the breach PLC should not have as high of an alpha damage as a breach FG.
MAG vet, Dust closed beta vet, and an alt of Velvet Overkill (infantry) & Agent Overkill (vehicle).
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
1585
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Posted - 2014.05.24 01:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
Thanks, I looked at the numbers. Much appreciated.
When analysed properly the drawbacks of both forge and PLC seem very comparable
one shot until reload
arc - extremely hard to aim long range
small splash
no-hold charge
mobility unaffected
medium suit mobility
3 shots until reload
lacks mobility in short range encounters
small splash
hold-charge
slowdown of held charge
heavy suit ehp
I honestly dont see why proto dps shouldn't be very similar, we will take it into consideration. I want two truly comparable and viable high alpha AV options.
However, I can't compare it at all to the swarm because of lock and no anti infantry capability.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
Proficiency V.
1378
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Posted - 2014.05.24 01:18:00 -
[57] - Quote
I did another spreadsheet on possible number for the PLC... I HOPE they help you out
LINK TO SPREADSHEET
Plasma Cannon Advocate
Dust 514 Survivor
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
1075
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Posted - 2014.05.24 01:29:00 -
[58] - Quote
Don't be dissuaded by my ranting on variants, I hope the results turn out well
- Just be careful
'D1CK by name'
'D1CK by nature'
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XxGhazbaranxX
The New Age Outlaws
Proficiency V.
1378
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Posted - 2014.05.24 01:47:00 -
[59] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:Don't be dissuaded by my ranting on variants, I hope the results turn out well
- Just be careful
Don't stop posting.
Of course there has to be changes to how the PLC works and, even though I was in the bandwagon of not introducing an extra shot, the overall damage should be divided by two. Therefore the net effect would actually be the same damage.
If you look at the numbers on the spreadsheet you would see that the damages are halved each time. SO for example
The breach PLC is 1700 damage
The regular is 825*2 = 1650
Assault is 425*3 = 1275 damage.
With each variant that includes an extra shot the overall total damage is diminished. So you would never get the same net effect that you would with one that has Their Charge in tact. Balancing it for better use against infantry but not making it extremely overpowerd.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
Dust 514 Survivor
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
1075
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Posted - 2014.05.24 02:14:00 -
[60] - Quote
Too many issue's arise with those Variants Ghaz... 2 shots is OP, 3 shots is Overkill
- Keep regular Variant.... As the Assault Plasma Cannon while reducing charge time slightly (1 shot)
- Breach Variant... Slower Charge, load time with approx 2000 DMG
?? IF just for theories sake, the charge mechanic was altered and rather than charge fully then fire,
make it charge for a minimum time equal to PLC now, but up to an extended ? 10 seconds ?
so if released at minimum charge time, deals low damage (1000?) but if charged for 10 seconds
it would overheat after shot but you could potentially raise DMG up to 3000 as the overheat would be
the balancing factor and the BPLC would equal BFG alpha DMG ... thoughts ???? 
- So we have 2 variants, the Regular (Assault) and the Breach ... Job done
- A 3rd variant needs to be designed by CCP when they can provide the lasting burn DMG to vehicles..
^^ Dust mercs should be well practiced at waiting... why rush out spam variants when we could all ask for
A weapon that would be perfecting it's already specialist role, and becoming a vital AV tool...
DAMMIT PEOPLE IF YOU WANT A MASS DRIVER....... BUY ONE !!!!!
'D1CK by name'
'D1CK by nature'
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