ADV swarms still hit reasonably hard, I won't tangle with them if I don't have to.

But Echo you are failing to understand the mindset of a competent tanker. Why should tanks sit out in the open and just absorb your rounds. As a tanker I always use what cover I can, my positioning is half of what makes my fights victories, and I typically don't use Nitrous Modules because I simply don't need them, I won't stray from cover for too long, I know how much punishment my HAV can take, and I know when AV is in a superior position.

You typically won't catch a smart tanker who doesn't already have 2-3 escape routes......

i dont expect for you to sit there like an idiot, i would just like some noticeable damage. A sica or a soma will get hurt a little cos it has less ability to tank, but a triple rep madrugar laughs at swarms, it does nothing. also pop a shield booster on a gunnlogi and i essentially wasted an entire 3 swarms and you still have full health, you then realize a slight danger, drive off and wait for your mods to recharge. It is within the realm of possibility for a tank to take all of the ammo of an advance swarm and survive. that isnt right. with my swarms unless i have help most tanks dont die. they activate a hardener and run out of range.

You make mad WP's and ISK

Whenever there's enemy vehicles.

That a lot of the time.

I've been mostly running uplinks, stealth hacking, and AVing.
I've been passing 1000 WP all the time, and without a squad.

Because tankers are pussies and run to their redline when they have 2k armor left on a maddy/ soma. It's angers my forge gun who wants his satisfaction so much that it creates a mind of its own and points and shoots at my feet until I eventually die. This happens each time a tank escapes my grasp

1000 WP isn't really all that much.

If you were to break 4k w/o a squad regularly, that would be impressive.

You either are being sarcastic or have very high standards. I bet most players even top tier as they call themselves rarely score more than 1200 WP a game without farming.

Woa, woa, it can't be. A tanker that doesn't make over 1000 wp game is SIMPLY IMPOSSIBLE!

You either are being sarcastic or have very high standards. I bet most players even top tier as they call themselves rarely score more than 1200 WP a game without farming.

If you have been playing this game for a few months and don't have any form of av, your a fail at this game.

I've been mostly running uplinks, stealth hacking, and AVing.
I've been passing 1000 WP all the time, and without a squad.

You are using the example of a broken mechanic to illustrate a specific point.... now against any other tank fit that doesn't abuse triple reps AV hits and damages well.

If you have been playing this game for a few months and don't have any form of av, your a fail at this game.

i'll use a gunnlogi instead. You have 1 basic heavy extender, 1 enhanced heavy extender and a basic heavy shield booster and an enhanced 120mm plate. And advance swarm laucher has you in his sights, will your tank die: i think no but lets do math.

advance swarm does 220 damage + the 2 enhanced damage mods on the AV suit.

220 + (220 x 7.62%) = 236.76 damage per missle
236.8 * 5 = 1184 per salvo
1184 * 0.8 = 947.2 damage to a shield tank per salvo.
you will have 4346 shields

4346/947.2 = 4.59 swarms to kill the shields. pop the booster and you get an extra 1950 hp plus some hp from the regen.
so another 2-3 swarms are needed at least. so 7-8 swarms ( cant fire half swarms xD) to remove the shields leaving 2950 armour. if the swarmer has not maxed out his ammo capacity skill he cannot kill the tank with swarms alone. he would need it at level 4 and hope that the tank driver isnt paying attention. By the time you had to activate the booster you'd have either killed the guy or run off.
Hey ho, the tank lives.

dont tell me they can hurt, shoot 3 of them at you and you might go down. but one or two ADV swarms i doubt it.

i'll use a gunnlogi instead. You have 1 basic heavy extender, 1 enhanced heavy extender and a basic heavy shield booster and an enhanced 120mm plate. And advance swarm laucher has you in his sights, will your tank die: i think no but lets do math.

advance swarm does 220 damage + the 2 enhanced damage mods on the AV suit.

220 + (220 x 7.62%) = 236.76 damage per missle
236.8 * 5 = 1184 per salvo
1184 * 0.8 = 947.2 damage to a shield tank per salvo.
you will have 4346 shields

4346/947.2 = 4.59 swarms to kill the shields. pop the booster and you get an extra 1950 hp plus some hp from the regen.
so another 2-3 swarms are needed at least. so 7-8 swarms ( cant fire half swarms xD) to remove the shields leaving 2950 armour. if the swarmer has not maxed out his ammo capacity skill he cannot kill the tank with swarms alone. he would need it at level 4 and hope that the tank driver isnt paying attention. By the time you had to activate the booster you'd have either killed the guy or run off.
Hey ho, the tank lives.

dont tell me they can hurt, shoot 3 of them at you and you might go down. but one or two ADV swarms i doubt it.

Why are you using Swarms against a Shield tank?

Why are you using Swarms against a Shield tank?

I'd just like to point out here that I wreck Sica's with my Wiyrkomi Swarms.

So because you can't wreck a proper shield tank with a weapon not designed to destroy it.....it's UP?

I recently got proto swarms from adv, prof 2, ammo 3 and reload speed 2. I tend to get a LOT of wp from vehicle damage but hardly any kills. People like kills - they look good and are the only thing that people see of others on the EOM screen.

Often these days I don't have much time to play, so I jump in ambushes solo when I can and knowing there will probably be some vehicles in play, I'll wait until I see the RDV coming in on the map, then deploy in my 70k isk AV scout suit. It has zero tank, 2 complex damage mods, proto swarms, proto kincat and proto range amp with REs, adv nanohive and AV nades with the adv breach scrambler pistol for infantry trying to chase me down.

Even the worst pilots are difficult to kill solo. I think I should be able to kill poorly skilled mlt tanks/dropships solo with that sort of set up. Standard tanks and dropships I don't stand a chance against solo. That's not a huge deal for me but when I have at most one other teammate helping me out, we should be able to take down one of those SOBs together - nope, still barely get close. Then we get mown down by infantry who have been alerted to our presence by giant white lines in the sky pointing us out.

Balance gripes aside, I am glad to still be getting the occasional +75wp for vehicle damage but I reckon that the main reason people don't do it is that you don't get kills with AV. Even if you manage one or two lucky vehicle kills, you'd get more going anti-infantry, even if your team still ends up losing because there's a tank and ADS mopping the battleground with your bodies stuck to the front of their turrets.

-snip-
Yes, I'm all for a blaster turret damage nerf. I believe balance can be and should be achieved through Balancing the Large Turrets. At this point, buffing AV will make it too powerful against certain vehicles while nerfing tanks in general will make balanced tanks (missile tanks) weak

because Large Blasters have longer range than swarms.

At this point, buffing AV will make it too powerful against certain vehicles while nerfing tanks in general will make balanced tanks (missile tanks) weak.

I've been mostly running uplinks, stealth hacking, and AVing.
I've been passing 1000 WP all the time, and without a squad.

This right here is a nice big problem. Seeing how long it takes to lock on with swarms, Large Blasters not only have better range, but more then enough accuracy to make sure those missiles never even leave the launcher.



Against what vehicles? Crappy militia fits? Because as is, with my Proficiency 5, Complex Damage modded Prototype swarms, *all* vehicles are more or less unkillable. Whether it be LAVs being able to get out of range and behind cover before a second volley is fired, or Dropships being able to just fly away and come back fully repped less then a minute later, or of course Tanks (unless piloted by an idiot) taking entire volleys of Proto Swarms and just repping the damage back as soon as it turns a corner. Hell, it takes 4 volleys of Adv swarms just to kill a FREAKING TURRET nowadays. The best weapon in an AVer's arsenal should *not* be Std Remote explosive.

And to hell with that "infantry shouldn't be able to solo vehicles" bull. If a tank can solo 20+ people a match without breaking a sweat, a dedicated AVer should be able to solo said tank. As an AV infantry you put yourself at a massive disadvantage against the vast majority of other enemies on the map. Not only do you lack an effect Anti-infantry countermeasure by needing a dedicated AV weapon, you also make yourself a giant target to everyone on the map. As soon as those swarms fly or that Forge fires, every red dot will be gunning for the easy kill. For that big of a risk, dedicated AVers should at least excel at what they're specced into doing. If it's supposed to take more then one person to take out a tank, maybe it should take more then one person to operate a tank. One pilot, one main turret gunner? That way it would be a fair trade of needing multiple AVers to to take out one tank because that tank would need multiple players to operate fully.

But again, even LAVs and Dropships are a pain to take out for AVers, so it's not just Tanks who are running wild against ineffective AVers. PLCs are a complete joke, Swarms are more or less useless unless Proto (and possibly bugged to be doing less damage then intended against armor iirc), and forge guns are heavy only and slow to use. That's the three main AV weapons all left in bad shape, combined with AV nades being reduced to two a fitting and it just compounds the problem. The fact that the best infantry AV weapon is *REMOTE EXPLOSIVES*...and not even the AV proxy ones but the simple, basic sticky ones, should be a massive red flag that there's something wrong with the balance between AV and Vehicles.

So because you can't wreck a proper shield tank with a weapon not designed to destroy it.....it's UP?

I wonder how many people would believe that I destroyed a sica with STD swarms and AV grenades in a militia light frame with no skill above STD with that fit...

The "tanker" was pathetic, but still...