DUST Search - CCP - if you do tiercide for the FanFest expansion

R F Gyro wrote:

I think we need to be a bit careful here. Tiercide worked in Eve because there were so many different ships of each category. Six different tech 1 frigates (smallest ship class) for each of the 4 races. Then tech 2 frigates. And faction frigates. Then destroyers, cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships, capitals and supercapitals.

Off the top of my head (and just with combat ships)...

6 x tech 1 frigates
2 x tech 1 destroyers
5 x tech 1 cruisers
3 x tech 1 battlecruisers
3 x tech 1 battleships
= 19 x 4 races = 76 tech 1 empire warships

Then add...
6 x tech 2 frigates
1 x tech 2 destroyer
6 x tech 2 cruisers
2 x tech 2 battlecruisers
1 x tech 2 battleship
= 16 x 4 races = 64 tech 2 empire warships

We're at 140 ships already. Now add tech 3 cruisers, pirate faction ships, navy faction ships, captials, super capitals and non-combat ships.

With all that variety and progression you really don't need five different tiers of tech 1 frigate. Tiercide works in Eve.

Dust has nothing like that.

In Eve, you go roaming in a (tiercided) tech 1 cruiser and (assuming you don't get ganked by a blob or a gate camp) you'll run into a tech 2 heavy assault cruiser which will murder you. Go roaming in that tech 2 cruiser and you'll get murdered by a tech 3 cruiser.

Why is this different to basic/advanced/prototype?

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Altus Nox HELLRAIZERZ 41	Posted - 2014.04.28 13:01:00 - [61] - Quote ^ First, medomai grey, thank you for taking him apart so I didn't have to waste my time. Second, with regards to those arguing against tiericide and to keep there protostomping abilities. Do you honestly believe that you should have absolute freedom to run top-level gear in any match you want? Is this balanced? Do you feel that new/casual players should not have a place that they can get away from you and just have a good time? Many people in this thread mentioned the possibility of tiercide removing competition from DUST. If you are so worried about competition, why do many of you run proto gear in public matches where you KNOW most don't run their best stuff? I think I even saw a separate thread on the forums with someone complaining about people not running proto gear because they weren't getting the satisfaction from killing militia gear. No matter how you try to justify it proto gear is an "I WIN" button in pubs. I have had multiple games (I don't run PRO, basic with the occasional ADV) where my squad gets beaten to the objective in a DOM. We have a good hard fight pushing the enemy out, take the point and the next thing we know is we have the same guys we just had a fun fight with show back up in PROTO. Match over... There is no way to win with a team of blueberries when the other team has proto cloaked scouts shooting you in the back with shotguns and bricked boundless sentinels with a proto logi mowing you down from 25m. -Nox -Omnes una manet Nox (The same night awaits us all)
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1074	Posted - 2014.04.28 14:28:00 - [62] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Then I will take back everything bad I have ever said about CCP and sing your praises on the forums. Do not disappoint me humans. MLT/STD only mode. Uprising 1.8 - Invisible War
Teilka Darkmist 299	Posted - 2014.04.28 14:30:00 - [63] - Quote If done as it was in Eve, Teiricide will not kill variety, it will increase it. Mos of the ship in Eve, were barely used untill Tiericide happened, then the devs went through the whole lot and made it so that each ship was good at one or two roles, with the higher tier ships being better at more specialised roles, and not so good at others. To put it in Dust terms , it's making a logi suit great at logistics, repping, supply and such, whilst maybe reducing it's straight up combat capability. Or making a scout fast and hard to scan or see, but really squishy. I can see how that may be seen as a bad thng to those KdR worshippers who think the should be able to fill more that one role with a high level suit, but we 're not one person armies, we're one person in a mercenary company, a cog in a machine. Part of a team. Teiricide, done properly with that philosophy in mind, will add variety on the battlefield and increase the social side of the game, which is very limited right now . In short, don't remove suits, specialise them. Woman. Sniper, but from near the opponent's redline more often than not. Not a KDR Worshipper.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2585	Posted - 2014.04.28 14:57:00 - [64] - Quote If you think tiericide is bad, you need to check out eve. Its actually quite well done in eve. Just need to tiericide dropsuits really. Modules and weaponry would still have meta tiers because you trade increased power for increased fitting cost, that is balanced. Proto suits are just isk = power, that is the very definition of pay to win. You tiericide dropsuits and dropsuits alone.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 624	Posted - 2014.04.28 15:45:00 - [65] - Quote Just gonna leave some links on how EVE did it. PS, if done correctly, it adds great variety AND viability ; severely lowers FotM spamming and suit doctrines. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74234 http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/no-brakes-retribution-1.1-balancing/ The forums are more reliable than my spais :(
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 659	Posted - 2014.04.28 16:48:00 - [66] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Tiericide = Remove power creep from game = How can it be bad?? You are just a bunch of protostomping crybabies. The only proto that I own are mods , weapons and vehicle mods also large turrets . I don't own a single suit but you better believe that I'm trying to get some . I just can't understand how players can play a game and hate the fact that you are rewarded for the effort and work that you place in the game , which gives one greater flex-ability and that same is hated by the same players . Do you not wear prototype in PC ??? How can you complain then ??? PC games are suppose to be the best against the best and those who play in pubs , basically fight to earn the right , also practice and obtain ISK's and SP's and the attention of other corporations to eventually play in PC matches . Never played in a PC , would love to but I just know that personally I'm not ready yet . Don't own a prototype suit but believe me when I get some I will wear them in a pub because I'm going to try them out , that's just common sense ... stupid to try and use it in FW and I just don't play FW anyway . Stop trying to hurt those who don't comply with your beliefs on how this game is suppose to be played . Roles get too much attention then the community asks for those same roles to become less of a factor , weapons get a lot of attention and the community does the same and the common factor is , not addressing the problem and changing that which gave that item a noticeable edge over the others that made that weapon or role OP . That way your not changing the game so much so that it kills the SP's and effort placed in that area by players and also stops the trend of buffs and nerfs . Coming to an agreement about what makes an item OP , stating facts , finding a middle ground to come to a solution and not mass propagating to get something done that does more harm than good . It's not the proto stomping that's killing the game ... it's the fact that in pubs , one can start a match with members of the same squad and play a bunch of random players and that squad is familiar with each other but the random players know nothing of each other unless they have the drive to work together and few do . It's the fact that one can q-cink games at a certain time and play with buddies in pubs and slaughter random players at a whim . In a public match that should not be the case , now in factional yes but in pubs no . Factional is closer to PC's so that should be a given . Pubs are a bigger problem and should host games with only random players on both teams . You should not play a game with four to five players from the same corp in the same public match but now that is the case on a regular . Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 633	Posted - 2014.04.28 16:55:00 - [67] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Stop trying to hurt those who don't comply with your beliefs on how this game is suppose to be played . The forums are more reliable than my spais :(
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 659	Posted - 2014.04.28 16:58:00 - [68] - Quote medomai grey wrote: [quote=Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui]On a side note ... tiericide can not help the new player experience and I just get tired of players using fear and propaganda to drive the direction of the game , they do it with the process of nerfs and buffs and now they just want to flat out ruin the game . NPE suffers because of the poor set up that currently is in the Academy and the lack of a true matchmaking system . It's not the prototype gear , it's the lack of knowledge and experience that those who begin to play have and the fact that this game changes direction more than someone driving in a downtown of a major city for the first time . Teach newer players what's important in the game , how to invest their SP's wisely , strategy and how to create a functional load out . Figure out a better and true matchmaking system . You do not make any actual explanation of why tiercide would not improve NPE. What you do mention is other issues surrounding NPE. And while you are not necessarily wrong regarding these other NPE issues, you have not supported the idea of tiercide not improving NPE. And yes, I am using fear and propaganda to ruin this game. I even have the power to buff and nerf your imaginary toys at my discretion. This is made possible by anal probes secretly inserted into CCP's employees. Soil yourselves at the very sight of this troll propaganda which is 100% true! Quote: So, two things I take issue with. The first is the baseless statement that EVE players are demanding respecs. You have provided no evidence or reasoning to support such a wild accusation. Second, the customization in EVE online is superior to the level of flexibility allowed in Dust514. EVE has been around substantially longer than Dust514 and as a result has more features and toys to play with. To claim that EVE players don't like the flexibility in Dust514 is a tad odd. If anything, EVE players would be upset about the lack of options and customization available in Dust514. PS: Your tinfoil hat does not protect you from my mind control towers in your neighborhood. Nice try though. Can you tell me where I say that EVE players were asking for a refund ???? If you look and see I say that they are the biggest opponents of a refund . I'm glad that you can admit that you yourself and others like you are trying to ruin and kill this game and boastfully pound your chest about it . As for correcting me like the player says in a few pieces away , that's also something that's debatable . I'm not going to waste my time ,all I know that whatever happens will happen . Stop asking for tiercide , your killing variety and the fun of this game at the same dam time .
Void Echo Total Extinction 2473	Posted - 2014.04.28 17:02:00 - [69] - Quote I highly believe Teircide would do any good at the moment, there is still so very little content that there would still be no unique fits. Teircide would only be a good thing if we have 2x the content we have now. Youtube Closed Beta Vet CEO: Total Extinction
Autoaim Bot514 The Hetairoi 91	Posted - 2014.04.28 19:03:00 - [70] - Quote Heres how it would work, as I imagine it: Take the unbonused frame suits (light med and heavy) and keep the ADV as the new militia variants, none of which would require SP. The pro, you get to try out these suits, but they dont specialized, dont get any kind of bonus. basically, they are there for you to try out, find your playstyle before you commit SP. Now, regular suits. All suits are to be replaced by their Proto equivilent. Example: To unlock a minmatar Logi suit, you need to invest first in the Minmatar Dropsuit skill (this replaces the min light, med and heavy suit skills, SP sinks as they are). Different tiers of this skill unlock the different types of suit, similarly to todays dropsuit command skill, which I would remove. 1=Assault, 3=Scout,pilot, 5= sentinel, etc. Minmatar Dropsuits 3 > Minmatar Logistics 1 = todays proto min logi. Now, this suit will not be at its full potential, but you have the same amount of slots as everyone else and fitting. But, with the skill at just 1, you wont be as powerful, but you will be close. As you add more SP to the suit skill it gets better. Caldari Dropsuits 5 > Caldari Commando 1 = todays proto Calcommando. etc TL;DR: all suits are now protosuits, SP just makes them better thru bonuses, nearly equalizing suits thru fitting, and not relying on "content = variety"

R F Gyro Clones 4u 1333	Posted - 2014.04.28 21:24:00 - [71] - Quote I think we need to be a bit careful here. Tiercide worked in Eve because there were so many different ships of each category. Six different tech 1 frigates (smallest ship class) for each of the 4 races. Then tech 2 frigates. And faction frigates. Then destroyers, cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships, capitals and supercapitals. Off the top of my head (and just with combat ships)... 6 x tech 1 frigates 2 x tech 1 destroyers 5 x tech 1 cruisers 3 x tech 1 battlecruisers 3 x tech 1 battleships = 19 x 4 races = 76 tech 1 empire warships Then add... 6 x tech 2 frigates 1 x tech 2 destroyer 6 x tech 2 cruisers 2 x tech 2 battlecruisers 1 x tech 2 battleship = 16 x 4 races = 64 tech 2 empire warships We're at 140 ships already. Now add tech 3 cruisers, pirate faction ships, navy faction ships, captials, super capitals and non-combat ships. With all that variety and progression you really don't need five different tiers of tech 1 frigate. Tiercide works in Eve. Dust has nothing like that. In Eve, you go roaming in a (tiercided) tech 1 cruiser and (assuming you don't get ganked by a blob or a gate camp) you'll run into a tech 2 heavy assault cruiser which will murder you. Go roaming in that tech 2 cruiser and you'll get murdered by a tech 3 cruiser. Why is this different to basic/advanced/prototype? RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9852	Posted - 2014.04.28 21:30:00 - [72] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Then I will take back everything bad I have ever said about CCP and sing your praises on the forums. Do not disappoint me humans. Thats a bloody dangerous concept Catmerc..... will either make the game better, or destroy all variation. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
Autoaim Bot514 The Hetairoi 93	Posted - 2014.04.28 21:53:00 - [73] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: I think we need to be a bit careful here. Tiercide worked in Eve because there were so many different ships of each category. Six different tech 1 frigates (smallest ship class) for each of the 4 races. Then tech 2 frigates. And faction frigates. Then destroyers, cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships, capitals and supercapitals. Off the top of my head (and just with combat ships)... 6 x tech 1 frigates 2 x tech 1 destroyers 5 x tech 1 cruisers 3 x tech 1 battlecruisers 3 x tech 1 battleships = 19 x 4 races = 76 tech 1 empire warships Then add... 6 x tech 2 frigates 1 x tech 2 destroyer 6 x tech 2 cruisers 2 x tech 2 battlecruisers 1 x tech 2 battleship = 16 x 4 races = 64 tech 2 empire warships We're at 140 ships already. Now add tech 3 cruisers, pirate faction ships, navy faction ships, captials, super capitals and non-combat ships. With all that variety and progression you really don't need five different tiers of tech 1 frigate. Tiercide works in Eve. Dust has nothing like that. In Eve, you go roaming in a (tiercided) tech 1 cruiser and (assuming you don't get ganked by a blob or a gate camp) you'll run into a tech 2 heavy assault cruiser which will murder you. Go roaming in that tech 2 cruiser and you'll get murdered by a tech 3 cruiser. Why is this different to basic/advanced/prototype? Having only 1 suit per role instead of 3 gives CCP time to create new suit roles or work on other things.
Omega Black Zero Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 40	Posted - 2014.04.28 22:19:00 - [74] - Quote in this thread, Dust players pretending they know what EVE players think
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 512	Posted - 2014.04.28 22:33:00 - [75] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Then I will take back everything bad I have ever said about CCP and sing your praises on the forums. Do not disappoint me humans. Thats a bloody dangerous concept Catmerc..... will either make the game better, or destroy all variation. "My suit is awesome and your suit sucks" is not variation, that's just bullying. If you are talking about high choice in different loadouts then how can everyone having the equivalent of a proto suit not improve variation? More players are now able to consider more slot layouts. "Variation" is a strawman argument used by vested interests in keeping imbalance in the game.
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 1702	Posted - 2014.04.28 22:51:00 - [76] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Stop trying to hurt those who don't comply with your beliefs on how this game is suppose to be played . That's exactly what protostomping is doing. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Selinate deux Ametat Security Amarr Empire 140	Posted - 2014.04.28 22:51:00 - [77] - Quote Soooo much protobear QQ.
Delanus Turgias Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 456	Posted - 2014.04.28 22:52:00 - [78] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: What will probably be revealed at fanfest: -Graphics update like always -Plans for more EVE connections (most likely how they will "fix" PC) -Redesign of the way we play the game (better map design, revamped game modes, redefining the vehicle dimension) -Another "great" idea of theirs for changing the NPE that won't actually do much at all. What I want them to reveal at fanfest: -New game modes and/or PVE alpha gameplay -NPE being their MAIN priority and focus -To tell us that they're going to shift their focus away from content -A heavy weapon What they won't reveal at fanfest: -How they're scrapping everything so far and are going to do tiercide -Dust on PS4, PC, or Xbone -Tons of new content Just remember, kids. Dust will never be on Xboner or any M$ consoles, because M$ can't play nice with cross-platform integration. Closed Beta Vet since May 2012 The Laser Rifle- Reach Out And Burn Slaves Proud owner of essentially every BPO in Dust
Phazoid The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 296	Posted - 2014.04.28 23:34:00 - [79] - Quote ok i have a doubt, for example i use mostly a scout c1 with militia everything and costs 8k isk, if tiercide happens, there would be only 1 scout suit for every race? only one tier?, because isk price for the dropsuit would be somewhere between ADV and proto, can someone clarify that for me? One body, two bodies, three and four. One more makes the dragon roar... We the players are what's wrong with dust.
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5081	Posted - 2014.04.28 23:56:00 - [80] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Then I will take back everything bad I have ever said about CCP and sing your praises on the forums. Do not disappoint me humans. MLT/STD only mode. What, that's a solution? Why not just have player skill be the biggest factor rather than how much ISK you can spend? Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector

ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2602	Posted - 2014.04.29 00:23:00 - [81] - Quote Phazoid wrote: ok i have a doubt, for example i use mostly a scout c1 with militia everything and costs 8k isk, if tiercide happens, there would be only 1 scout suit for every race? only one tier?, because isk price for the dropsuit would be somewhere between ADV and proto, can someone clarify that for me? Basic light would be pretty cheap while scout would be more expensive. The frames themselves would be relatively cheap while the modules front most of the cost. Ideally you could run a Light frame suit with basic modules for around 10-15k isk or run a scout with full proto modules, weapon, equipment, etc and expect to pay around 200k for that fit. power differential between those two fits would be significantly lower than a pro cal scout vs your MLT cal scout though.
Doctor Day EoN Minmatar 151	Posted - 2014.04.29 00:29:00 - [82] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: What will probably be revealed at fanfest: -Graphics update like always -Plans for more EVE connections (most likely how they will "fix" PC) -Redesign of the way we play the game (better map design, revamped game modes, redefining the vehicle dimension) -Another "great" idea of theirs for changing the NPE that won't actually do much at all. What I want them to reveal at fanfest: -New game modes and/or PVE alpha gameplay -NPE being their MAIN priority and focus -To tell us that they're going to shift their focus away from content -A heavy weapon What they won't reveal at fanfest: -How they're scrapping everything so far and are going to do tiercide -Dust on PS4, PC, or Xbone -Tons of new content Dumb ass,the reason it isnt going to be on xbone is becaue Microsoft wants them to run there **** on there server They already asked to do it on Xbox 360 but Microsoft said no to letting them have there own server or something like that And i guess they want to make Dust 514 a console exlusive Obvious troll is Obvious TROLOLOLOLOL HEAR MY MIGHTY TROLOLOLOL


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