DUST Search - Heavies really do need a slight HP reduction...

Cat Merc wrote:

Jake Diesel wrote:

Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:

Cat Merc wrote:

Heavies were a joke because the HMG didn't work right.
They buffed the HMG, and they became badass.

I saw a healthy balance in PC, people brought heavies, but they weren't 50% of the enemy team.

Then the weapons nerf happened, proficiency nerfs, resistances buffs, and grenades nerfs, and suddenly heavies are 50% or more of the people in PC matches and are not fun to fight against, they feel like annoying roadblocks that you either have to go around or shoot at for 10 minutes until they go down.

Heavies were a joke NOT JUST because the HMG was poop. The turn speed was bad, the nade spam, MD spam, ARs being out of balance, AA...

You name it, heavies felt it worse because their huge hitbox and speed compounded every problem.

Heavies are SUPPOSE to be a problem to get rid of. Not just throw a nade at one or 1 magazine... like heavies were since Chromosome! A joke. Before Chromosome heavies were feared, and you respected their presence, as you should.

They have an actual TTK now, and that's a problem? I thought people wanted a better TTK? Now heavies actually take effort to kill, and it's a call to nerf HP... lol

I'm guessing the majority of peeps who want the heavy nerf are rifle users (any variant) and shotgun scouts. Lol. It's funny but a full proto rifle or shotgun can drop a Gallente proto sentinel in short time. Like less than 2 seconds. 3-4 shots from a proto shotgun, and and probably 1.5 seconds from the best rifles.

And the turn speed nerf? Lol. That's just plain stupid. Again, peeps who just want to solo everything their way and forget that hmg's and heavies rely on short distance engagements unless you're forging.

If a unit takes only one person to operate, it should take one unit to take it down.

If that is not true, that unit will become the most numerous, unless it has drawbacks that hold it from being that way.

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Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8864	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:04:00 - [151] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: I've heard people talk about Lance tearing up the field. Of Alldin and Reg tearing up the field. Of Funkmaster tearing up the field. Of Tiberius ripping peoples heads off. You know, I haven't heard the bards sing tales of Cat Merc The Whiny yet. I guess I'll just have to take your word for it. I haven't heard anyone sing the praises of Sgt Kirk, and that dude is a complete beast. And now, about me, I am not an amazing player, but I can hold my own, and find success in PC. I will not go 40/0 in PC, but I can do well enough. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Killar-12 OLDSPICE. Top Men. 2693	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:05:00 - [152] - Quote Cat Merc, Assaults and Commandos might honestly just need their bonuses combined both classes are ****. the Heavies are fine, Logis are fine, Scouts are fine. How to Leave PC
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 765	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:06:00 - [153] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Duran Lex wrote: They removed the turn speed limiter on the Heavy suit so it could turn at the same speed as every other suit. One major reason was scouts and logis with kin cats (extremely popular at the time) could literally out strafe our turn speed with an HMG equipped. Needless to say it caused a great deal of frustration. Weapon turn speeds, however, was never changed, with the HMG still having the slowest turn speed out of any gun in the game. Also cat merc, back then if we had half our shields down a single grenade was death. Full shields, aye we could survive, but not the 4 AR bullets that immediately followed. Would you find a speed reduction to heavies reasonable instead? That's hard to answer. With movement speed affecting the height of jumping, I can see a few geographical problems occuring on some maps by further reducing our speed. If they separated the two mechanics....maybe. It's honestly a tricky thing to balance because of CCP own mechanics. For instance a sentinel suit with plates and an HMG is already gimping his speed. Tag on the fact that plates also reduce turn and strafing speeds we are already disadvantaged towards every other suit and weapon in the game, in regards to all forms of speed. I feel there is a better answer out there somewhere then making a suit that is already capable of being the slowest turning suit in the game, even slower. One thing im positive about though, the Scrambler Lance will HAVE to have an extremely slow turn speed or else it's going to dominate the field with more gusto then HAVs.
Rygharr Sturmeister DUST University Ivy League 19	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:09:00 - [154] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: It trumps all classes at all situations. Every single one. So if your team is getting tank stomped in Ambush and you need to run away so you can drop uplinks in a safe location it trumps the cloaked scout? So if your squad is assaulting an objective and you need to relay enemy positions to them it trumps the Gal Logi or Cal Scout? So if you or your team are in need of ammo and a supply depot is nowhere to be found it trumps any other suit that actually has an equipment slot?
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8864	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:11:00 - [155] - Quote Rygharr Sturmeister wrote: Cat Merc wrote: It trumps all classes at all situations. Every single one. So if your team is getting tank stomped in Ambush and you need to run away so you can drop uplinks in a safe location it trumps the cloaked scout? So if your squad is assaulting an objective and you need to relay enemy positions to them it trumps the Gal Logi or Cal Scout? So if you or your team are in need of ammo and a supply depot is nowhere to be found it trumps any other suit that actually has an equipment slot? He was talking about direct combat. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 765	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:15:00 - [156] - Quote The removal of the sloth effect might easily fix this problem. You don't need decent aim to keep a guy slowed to a crawl using an HMG, couple that with the huge magazine size and in certain situations it can seem hopeless at the opposite end of the HMG. Without the sloth, faster suits could dash around corners and survive, and appear behind the heavy for the victory. They could sneak up behind you, and strafe in the opposite direction and actually succeed in fooling some opponents. When they added in the sloth effect, they removed all forms of juking. Juking was the bread of butter strategy against any Heavy suit at the time.
Priss N6FAA2813 Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 14	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:18:00 - [157] - Quote I like how everyone says it shouldnt be possible fro a human being to weild an Hmg that fast as fas as the turn speed goes.Thats actually kinda funny . Have you seen what they are doing to bulls thru genetic enhancement, selective breeding, and growth hormones and ask your self this question . Why wouldnt they do that to a clone body that they want to carry heavy weapons and strap armor too. Ever seen mid-evil heavy calvary on Clydesdale's with heavy plate barding? In a completely militarist un ethical future where memory engrams can be placed into clone bodies you dont think they would grow/do that......... lol
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8864	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:22:00 - [158] - Quote Alright guys, data collected hehehe I was actually trying to gauge what people think of heavies in general. It's often difficult to filter out the noise on the forums, and I find that making threads like these allow me to best gauge what the community thinks. Notice how quickly the thread piled up 8 pages? -Cat Merc, out Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Rygharr Sturmeister DUST University Ivy League 19	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:27:00 - [159] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Then what is your take on the hmg range? Not a single person responded when I said it's too much.. So clearly even the heavy users agree, they just don't want it to be fixed. I'm not saying a big nerf but you shouldn't be competing at 40-60m.. And yes this does happen and yes it's still an insta kill.. Though it could be some type of glitch I wouldn't be surprised but idk. There is no way an HMG can compete at with a light weapon 40-60 meters. The natural spread of the gun would cause the majority of your bullets to miss. I am a full time HMG user, and i can tell you that even scouts and starter fits do not die instantly to an MH-82 at 40 meters. Anything past 30, and you see an exponential increase in TTK for the HMG. Even at 30 it takes me around 2 seconds to take out most medium suits, which is sometimes more time than it takes some rifles to kill me in my standard Caldari Sentinel. We can test this on video if you wish. If I have the luxury of finding an enemy unaware of my presence and that enemy is past 30-35 meters, I switch to my Magsec.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3601	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:27:00 - [160] - Quote riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 7107	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:29:00 - [161] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... I believe him. I myself have done similar things in the past. HAV > Infantry > AV < HAV [s]Text[/s] <------ That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 566	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:31:00 - [162] - Quote Cat, You're 0 for 2 on threadnaughts for the day. You sick? Too much nip? Deciphering the truth from a web of lies is far easier than you'd think. Especially if you're a bureaucrat.
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 768	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:32:00 - [163] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Alright guys, data collected hehehe I was actually trying to gauge what people think of heavies in general. It's often difficult to filter out the noise on the forums, and I find that making threads like these allow me to best gauge what the community thinks. Notice how quickly the thread piled up 8 pages? -Cat Merc, out Was i the only one that mentioned the removal of the sloth effect would possibly solve all issues related to the Heavy suit and HMG?
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 8864	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:34:00 - [164] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Alright guys, data collected hehehe I was actually trying to gauge what people think of heavies in general. It's often difficult to filter out the noise on the forums, and I find that making threads like these allow me to best gauge what the community thinks. Notice how quickly the thread piled up 8 pages? -Cat Merc, out Was i the only one that mentioned the removal of the sloth effect would possibly solve all issues related to the Heavy suit and HMG? Actually I do believe that's all that should happen. That effect makes me sick. Overlord of all humans CAT MERC
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 7107	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:35:00 - [165] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: Was i the only one that mentioned the removal of the sloth effect would possibly solve all issues related to the Heavy suit and HMG? Actually I mentioned that in Post #5 HAV > Infantry > AV < HAV [s]Text[/s] <------ That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 768	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:41:00 - [166] - Quote Atiim wrote: Duran Lex wrote: Was i the only one that mentioned the removal of the sloth effect would possibly solve all issues related to the Heavy suit and HMG? Actually I mentioned that in Post #5 Woot. Oh yea, on a side note i hope you didn't take me berating you about that DNS post a few days ago personally. I employ *******-like self amusement when drinking.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 7108	Posted - 2014.04.22 21:45:00 - [167] - Quote Duran Lex wrote: Woot. Oh yea, on a side note i hope you didn't take me berating you about that DNS post a few days ago personally. I employ *******-like self amusement when drinking. Don't worry about it dude. I was being far too condescending for my own good, and it brought some fun meta back into DUST. A win-win HAV > Infantry > AV < HAV [s]Text[/s] <------ That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
SoTasLost Property Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 6	Posted - 2014.04.22 22:21:00 - [168] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: SoTasLost Property wrote: Cat, you really don't have enough PC experience, especially high end, to have a relevant opinion on how heavies are in PC. And if you wish to argue, feel free to share with me your experiences of heavies going 23/2 in PC over and over again consistently. Keep your opinions to a pub level. :P Sota, nothing goes 23/2 in PC, unless the operator itself is good. But heavies are definitely way better, they wreck **** with ease while taking a ton of beating. They wreck up close while taking a beating from afar. - Obvious statement. But let's be real - no matter how skilled a player is in a heavy suit he WILL NOT DROP 23/2 IN A PC. EVER. But, assault, logi, scout? They can. You want to declare us OP, explain this to me. Why can they accomplish this - but we can't?
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 3608	Posted - 2014.04.22 22:31:00 - [169] - Quote Atiim wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight... I believe him. I myself have done similar things in the past. Your threads are all terrible though.
Palatinate Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 459	Posted - 2014.04.22 22:32:00 - [170] - Quote SoTasLost Property wrote: Cat Merc wrote: SoTasLost Property wrote: Cat, you really don't have enough PC experience, especially high end, to have a relevant opinion on how heavies are in PC. And if you wish to argue, feel free to share with me your experiences of heavies going 23/2 in PC over and over again consistently. Keep your opinions to a pub level. :P Sota, nothing goes 23/2 in PC, unless the operator itself is good. But heavies are definitely way better, they wreck **** with ease while taking a ton of beating. They wreck up close while taking a beating from afar. - Obvious statement. But let's be real - no matter how skilled a player is in a heavy suit he WILL NOT DROP 23/2 IN A PC. EVER. But, assault, logi, scout? They can. You want to declare us OP, explain this to me. Why can they accomplish this - but we can't? I can sco-....nvm. "Hiding will be seen as an act of aggression!" - Battlefield 3 Me: lol what? Fatal Absolution Director #10

Jake Diesel BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 158	Posted - 2014.04.22 22:42:00 - [171] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Jake Diesel wrote: Lance 2ballzStrong wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Heavies were a joke because the HMG didn't work right. They buffed the HMG, and they became badass. I saw a healthy balance in PC, people brought heavies, but they weren't 50% of the enemy team. Then the weapons nerf happened, proficiency nerfs, resistances buffs, and grenades nerfs, and suddenly heavies are 50% or more of the people in PC matches and are not fun to fight against, they feel like annoying roadblocks that you either have to go around or shoot at for 10 minutes until they go down. Heavies were a joke NOT JUST because the HMG was poop. The turn speed was bad, the nade spam, MD spam, ARs being out of balance, AA... You name it, heavies felt it worse because their huge hitbox and speed compounded every problem. Heavies are SUPPOSE to be a problem to get rid of. Not just throw a nade at one or 1 magazine... like heavies were since Chromosome! A joke. Before Chromosome heavies were feared, and you respected their presence, as you should. They have an actual TTK now, and that's a problem? I thought people wanted a better TTK? Now heavies actually take effort to kill, and it's a call to nerf HP... lol I'm guessing the majority of peeps who want the heavy nerf are rifle users (any variant) and shotgun scouts. Lol. It's funny but a full proto rifle or shotgun can drop a Gallente proto sentinel in short time. Like less than 2 seconds. 3-4 shots from a proto shotgun, and and probably 1.5 seconds from the best rifles. And the turn speed nerf? Lol. That's just plain stupid. Again, peeps who just want to solo everything their way and forget that hmg's and heavies rely on short distance engagements unless you're forging. If a unit takes only one person to operate, it should take one unit to take it down. If that is not true, that unit will become the most numerous, unless it has drawbacks that hold it from being that way. But they can. Any scout, assault, logi, commando, sentinel, can take down a Gallente Sentinel. Just some with a bit more difficulty than others. And some, situationally easier than others. Just don't expect to drop a Gallente Sentinel in a hallway fight thinking you're gonna win against his HMG. That's the perfectly ideal place for it to hold its ground. But two rifles will drop him quick even in that situation.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 793	Posted - 2014.04.23 16:38:00 - [172] - Quote I support Cat Merc. He argues well, the heavies whine. ...


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