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Shields aren't suppose to be like Armor

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DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5077	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:26:00 - [1] - Quote Shields aren't meant to stand and deliver. They are meant for speed, agility and tactical positioning. Armor is meant for pressing the enemy, advancing and out lasting enemies in fair fights. When you're shield tanking you're suppose to flank hard, dodge & weave and of course retreat fast. Shields aren't meant to be used to fight people head on. You're not suppose to feel comfortable taking on an armor tanker face to face in a fair fight. Shield tankers either use their speed to close in on there opponents from behind and apply a quick burst of high damage (Minmatar), or get to tactically advantageous cover and use your fast shield regen to out shoot higher HP opponents by recovering HP faster (Caldari). Speed is much better than HP in most situations, and this is proven by how affective Scouts are against heavies who have 4-5x the health they do. So shield tankers, which I'am one, need to stop playing like armor tankers and more importantly need to stop trying to get as much bonuses as them. Shield tankers get better regen and strafe. Speed is the name of the game, USE IT TO YOUR ADANTAGE. Shields and Armour are completely different play styles and we all need to stop pretending they're the same.The only thing that shield tankers should lobby for is Shield Extenders to be changed from 22 to 33, and 33 to 44. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
Forever ETC 703rd Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 296	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:33:00 - [2] - Quote One thing that doesn't make sense to me is, when you get hit and receive the slow down effect, shouldn't that only happen when it hits armor? I mean, isn't the shield around you so it doesn't physically slow you down if it receives damage? Well, time to go Commando. Fill the Ranks at 703rd. Love,Hate, and everything in between.- ETC 2013 THIS IS AMARR!!!
jerrmy12 kahoalii 1010	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:33:00 - [3] - Quote ok, as soon as i can take 1 bullet before having to hide then we'll talk. Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Ander Thedas Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 489	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:35:00 - [4] - Quote I agree. I was an armor kitted merc in 1.7 and before and now I've swapped to shields. It's an entirely different play style that really forced me to rethink my approach to the game and the weapons that work for it. I had to retire my beautiful Scrambler Rifle and swap to the much superior Assault Rifle for close range hit and run tactics (usually involving multiple enemies). And for the record: I've been running my exile and it's amazing. A lot of people are complaining about the AR being under powered but I honestly just don't see it. It's an extremely effective tool within range and offers a lot of advantages over the other options. Shield tanking took a bit to really sink into, but once I did I feel like I'm a better player for it. I can't just trade hits anymore, though. Taking cover and popping out to lay damage down isn't as satisfying and way more risky now, but it's a good thing. The game has flow and it has balance in that sense. Personally I think it's fantastic that so many different play styles can be properly represented. Omnia mutantur nihil interit FW lvl10 reward
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5079	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:35:00 - [5] - Quote Forever ETC wrote: One thing that doesn't make sense to me is, when you get hit and receive the slow down effect, shouldn't that only happen when it hits armor? I mean, isn't the shield around you so it doesn't physically slow you down if it receives damage? It should be removed all together. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5079	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:37:00 - [6] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: ok, as soon as i can take 1 bullet before having to hide then we'll talk. When I don't have to hide for a quarter of the game to get my armor back to full, then I'll take you seriously. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
jerrmy12 kahoalii 1010	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:38:00 - [7] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Forever ETC wrote: One thing that doesn't make sense to me is, when you get hit and receive the slow down effect, shouldn't that only happen when it hits armor? I mean, isn't the shield around you so it doesn't physically slow you down if it receives damage? It should be removed all together. yes please, and shields should have less recharge delay or regulator buff Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
jerrmy12 kahoalii 1011	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:39:00 - [8] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: ok, as soon as i can take 1 bullet before having to hide then we'll talk. When I don't have to hide for a quarter of the game to get my armor back to full, then I'll take you seriously. rep hives, logi, your shields, dont stack all plates... Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5085	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:41:00 - [9] - Quote Ander Thedas wrote: I agree. I was an armor kitted merc in 1.7 and before and now I've swapped to shields. It's an entirely different play style that really forced me to rethink my approach to the game and the weapons that work for it. I had to retire my beautiful Scrambler Rifle and swap to the much superior Assault Rifle for close range hit and run tactics (usually involving multiple enemies). And for the record: I've been running my exile and it's amazing. A lot of people are complaining about the AR being under powered but I honestly just don't see it. It's an extremely effective tool within range and offers a lot of advantages over the other options. Shield tanking took a bit to really sink into, but once I did I feel like I'm a better player for it. I can't just trade hits anymore, though. Taking cover and popping out to lay damage down isn't as satisfying and way more risky now, but it's a good thing. The game has flow and it has balance in that sense. Personally I think it's fantastic that so many different play styles can be properly represented. Yep the AR is a lot more suited to Shield suits, or ferroscale stacked suits. Armored Gallante suits are not nearly as affective with the AR as the Caldari, or even the Minmatar, because they're better at strafing. Speed is a big deal in this game. Back when I used the Gallante Assault I loved to stack Ferroscale so I could keep all my speed. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5085	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:44:00 - [10] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: ok, as soon as i can take 1 bullet before having to hide then we'll talk. When I don't have to hide for a quarter of the game to get my armor back to full, then I'll take you seriously. rep hives, logi, your shields, dont stack all plates... Energizers, Regulators, Kinetic Catalyzers. You have the speed, use it. Both Amor and Shields have downsides, don't act like shields get the short end of the stick. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ

Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 1265	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:47:00 - [11] - Quote yeah, shields have to run, hide, and pray whenever an armor player shows up, because they won't win a stand up fight, and the armor player has enough tank to simply turn around and gun you down if you do get the drop on them because guess what? they have shields too, and only about 200 less. while you have 1/5 the armor. because that's parity, right? to just have one side be outright weaker than the other... If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
I-Shayz-I I-----I 2959	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:53:00 - [12] - Quote So I'm guessing you're not one of those shield tanked suits with a rail weapon then. How do you explain that kind of gameplay style where you're supposed to stay so far away from your opponents that there isn't a chance they can even dent your shields at that range? The whole point being stationary and tanking instead of using speed to your advantage. This is why I feel that shield tankers complain. Links: 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! I make logistics videos!
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5087	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:54:00 - [13] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: yeah, shields have to run, hide, and pray whenever an armor player shows up, because they won't win a stand up fight, and the armor player has enough tank to simply turn around and gun you down if you do get the drop on them because guess what? they have shields too, and only about 200 less. while you have 1/5 the armor. because that's parity, right? to just have one side be outright weaker than the other... If I can take on heavies and their Logi minions in a Minmatar Assault(AKA Militia Caldari medium with fast stamina regen) you can fight them too. I play to the Minmatar advantage and run behind enemies and m+¬l+¬e them for 196 damage, then I finish them with CR bursts to the back of the head. The Caldari make the best use of gliding side jumps and strafing. You need to hit your opponents first to slow them down, then you dance around them to finish them. It's all about tactics. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 880	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:55:00 - [14] - Quote Shield tanking is just not viable in the game right now. You absolutely know it is far inferior to armor tanking. Shield tanking is far harder to fit, lacks any kind of teamwork that makes it better, regen is too meaningless when the hp gap is too hard to overcome, scales terribly, has no useful secondary mod (regulators and energizers are far too weak.) It's one advantage, and seriously the only, is speed. Regen debate is completely moot because of rep tools/repair hives and general survivability. Flanking and attacking is a general tactic, not one only applying to shields tankers.
Echoist Dogs of War Gaming Zero-Day 265	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:59:00 - [15] - Quote awww, but my laser rifle loves to munch on those squishy shield suits when I'm not trying to suppress gallente heavy suits and things of such nature. Noobasaures: "Rawr" STINGY: Yes I did nickname my laser rifle. Owner of a "Insta Bacon Machine" called STINGY
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5091	Posted - 2014.04.16 03:59:00 - [16] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: So I'm guessing you're not one of those shield tanked suits with a rail weapon then. How do you explain that kind of gameplay style where you're supposed to stay so far away from your opponents that there isn't a chance they can even dent your shields at that range? The whole point being stationary and tanking instead of using speed to your advantage. This is why I feel that shield tankers complain. Rail Rifle users are suppose to try to shoot for head shots(to apply the highest damage), then try to have a very curt shoot out with their opponents. If they're are armor tankers then you shoot at each other until you're almost out of shields. Then you hide, reload, regen to full HP and finish them off since their armor regen is bad. You don't have to be a hundred yards from the action, you just need a little bit of cover. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 1266	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:05:00 - [17] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: yeah, shields have to run, hide, and pray whenever an armor player shows up, because they won't win a stand up fight, and the armor player has enough tank to simply turn around and gun you down if you do get the drop on them because guess what? they have shields too, and only about 200 less. while you have 1/5 the armor. because that's parity, right? to just have one side be outright weaker than the other... If I can take on heavies and their Logi minions in a Minmatar Assault(AKA Militia Caldari medium with fast stamina regen) you can fight them too. I play to the Minmatar advantage and run behind enemies and m+¬l+¬e them for 196 damage, then I finish them with CR bursts to the back of the head. The Caldari make the best use of gliding side jumps and strafing. You need to hit your opponents first to slow them down, then you dance around them to finish them. It's all about tactics. I use the caldari method: take a knee way the hell away from them and turn their face into a fine mist with a rail rifle since that's all I can do. If they get within range then I'm already dead since my regen takes forever, gets canceled out if the wind blows too hard, and oh right, THERE IS NO TEAM SUPPORT FOR SHIELDS AT ALL. I run heavies(twin RR commando and Burst HMG sent) and scouts. I have less HP than anything that isn't minmatar(and you guys can at least stack armor if you want to), run slower than minmatar, get picked up on scans easier than minmatar(that 4/2 layout is a ***** for scouting modules) Armor is flat out better and has been since forever. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5091	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:06:00 - [18] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Shield tanking is just not viable in the game right now. You absolutely know it is far inferior to armor tanking. Shield tanking is far harder to fit, lacks any kind of teamwork that makes it better, regen is too meaningless when the hp gap is too hard to overcome, scales terribly, has no useful secondary mod (regulators and energizers are far too weak.) It's one advantage, and seriously the only, is speed. Regen debate is completely moot because of rep tools/repair hives and general survivability. Flanking and attacking is a general tactic, not one only applying to shields tankers. Shield tankers are the best flankers though. Also team work is very much viable with Shiekd suits. Get behind a piece of cover, or in a building, with some buddies (4+). Two of you shoot at in coming enemies. Then when you two front men get two damaged they switch with the two other guys. The wounded men regen fast and get ammo, then they're ready to fight by the time the two other front men have their shields wasted. In this way Shield tankers can provide a consistent form of defence and pressure, and a much smaller group can take on a much larger force without being caught with their pants down. Armor tankers don't have the regen or general speed to pull this off. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 1266	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:09:00 - [19] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Galvan Nized wrote: Shield tanking is just not viable in the game right now. You absolutely know it is far inferior to armor tanking. Shield tanking is far harder to fit, lacks any kind of teamwork that makes it better, regen is too meaningless when the hp gap is too hard to overcome, scales terribly, has no useful secondary mod (regulators and energizers are far too weak.) It's one advantage, and seriously the only, is speed. Regen debate is completely moot because of rep tools/repair hives and general survivability. Flanking and attacking is a general tactic, not one only applying to shields tankers. Shield tankers are the best flankers though. Also team work is very much viable with Shiekd suits. Get behind a piece of cover, or in a building, with some buddies (4+). Two of you shoot at in coming enemies. Then when you two front men get two damaged they switch with the two other guys. The wounded men regen fast and get ammo, then they're ready to fight by the time the two other front men have their shields wasted. In this way Shield tankers can provide a consistent form of defence and pressure, and a much smaller group can take on a much larger force without being caught with their pants down. Armor tankers don't have the regen or general speed to pull this off. You can do the exact same thing with a single heavy armor tanker and a logi with a core focussed rep tool. "See, it's totally balanced, you only need 4 shield guys working perfectly to do something any two braindead armor tankers can do" If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Ander Thedas Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 493	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:13:00 - [20] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Shield tanking is just not viable in the game right now. You absolutely know it is far inferior to armor tanking. Shield tanking is far harder to fit, lacks any kind of teamwork that makes it better, regen is too meaningless when the hp gap is too hard to overcome, scales terribly, has no useful secondary mod (regulators and energizers are far too weak.) It's one advantage, and seriously the only, is speed. Regen debate is completely moot because of rep tools/repair hives and general survivability. Flanking and attacking is a general tactic, not one only applying to shields tankers. I disagree with this. I think it's very viable, it just isn't viable for the style of play most people wish to use. I think, generally speaking, armor tanking is better suited for MOST people's style of play and that's fine. There's a reason why there are 2 definitive armor races and only one DEFINITIVE shield race (with Minmatar in a hazy nebulous spot between armor, shield, and speed). It serves its function for those who want to play that way but generally speaking most people will be more comfortable with the armor style of play. I know I was for a long while, but after I made the switch and it clicked with me I loved it. I couldn't do what I do now with my old armor suit. And I can't do what I did then with my shield suit. There are options and for the way you play it's more likely than not that shields aren't a good one, which is why you think it's not viable. It's important to look at all sides of the equation to understand balance. And I will say this: the balance right now between shields and armor is pretty solid. Std and Adv tiers of shield modules might need another look at, since no one seems to run them, but besides that it's not tremendously off. Omnia mutantur nihil interit FW lvl10 reward

Vulpes Dolosus Sver true blood General Tso's Alliance 1394	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:15:00 - [21] - Quote If that's the case, shield tanked suits and vehicles need much much MUCH higher base shield regen and lower regen times. Seriously, the cal-mando only gets 20 hp/sec and an 8sec depleted regen time. Dropships, LAVs, cal scouts, and sentinel are decent (idk about minmatar suits), but med suits and tanks have awful regen rates for their hp amount and "hit and run" roles. Perhaps if they changed regen mods to low slots, that would help (lower ehp by removing armor mods but adding tanking shield viability due to higher regen rates). Me in my ADS: 1,2
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5094	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:15:00 - [22] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: You can do the exact same thing with a single heavy armor tanker and a logi with a core focussed rep tool. "See, it's totally balanced, you only need 4 shield guys working perfectly to do something any two braindead armor tankers can do" Except that then you have one guy who's vulnerable to be killed, and then if he does get killed then everyone he's supporting is screwed: "Pull a pin from the bottom and the whole stack falls". If you kill one guy from a group of shield tankers then the only thing that you hurt is their fire power. That's the big vulnerability of Armor tankers, you need to have a Logi, and you need to make sure they don't die. Or they are stuck to a spot because that's where they have their triage nanohive. Shield tankers don't have to be reliant on other players or equipment, and that's what makes them so flexible and adaptable. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 1266	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:21:00 - [23] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: You can do the exact same thing with a single heavy armor tanker and a logi with a core focussed rep tool. "See, it's totally balanced, you only need 4 shield guys working perfectly to do something any two braindead armor tankers can do" Except that then you have one guy who's vulnerable to be killed, and then if he does get killed then everyone he's supporting is screwed: "Pull a pin from the bottom and the whole stack falls". If you kill one guy from a group of shield tankers then the only thing that you hurt is their fire power. That's the big vulnerability of Armor tankers, you need to have a Logi, and you need to make sure they don't die. Or they are stuck to a spot because that's where they have their triage nanohive. Shield tankers don't have to be reliant on other players or equipment, and that's what makes them so flexible and adaptable. the situation you supplied had cover, the logi was safe and the area was unassailable. so yes, I was right those two would do the job of four, much more skilled and aware players. and that non-reliance also makes them tremendously weak. they have no one the can rely on and everyone knows they can just ignore you. an armor tanker can always find a logi who wants some free points when they're solo. A shield tanker will be lucky to scrounge the scraps of nanohives if they're solo, and if by some miracle, you get armor chewed without dieing, you're going to carry that lower HP for the rest of the game, should you live that long. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5094	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:28:00 - [24] - Quote [quote=Heathen Bastard] Fit a reactive plate, takes care of all armor concerns on shield classes. Anyways, I'd rather have a seamless force that can remain mobile and provide constant fire power, than a force that has to slow down and repair to provide a short burst of power before they need to take a collective brake. But that's just the thing, Armor and Shields have different strengths and weaknesses. People just need to pick what fits them best. I do better with shields and speed, so that's what I use. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 281	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:28:00 - [25] - Quote Passive tanking and active tanking are not synonymous with shield and armor. In Eve you can tank his and stand and deliver with shield ships (that's what Caldari are all about), and you can fast-regen tank (That's what Gallente favor). Maybe one day both will be viable in DustGÇª The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 1267	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:33:00 - [26] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: [quote=Heathen Bastard] Fit a reactive plate, takes care of all armor concerns on shield classes. Anyways, I'd rather have a seamless force that can remain mobile and provide constant fire power, than a force that has to slow down and repair to provide a short burst of power before they need to take a collective brake. But that's just the thing, Armor and Shields have different strengths and weaknesses. People just need to pick what fits them best. I do better with shields and speed, so that's what I use. So, to fix the armor/shield imbalance, I have to fit armor plates on my shield suits... NIce, yeah, lets not try to fix the problem, just tell people to fit a plate that slows them down(whoops, there goes your precious speed tanking) so that they have the "right" tank(armor) and that it repairs itself. and you can rep and walk at the same time. so cram your "armor is slow" argument. Heavies are slow. and shield heavies are again, inferior due to having the wrong tank. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5096	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:36:00 - [27] - Quote Denn Maell wrote: Passive tanking and active tanking are not synonymous with shield and armor. In Eve you can tank his and stand and deliver with shield ships (that's what Caldari are all about), and you can fast-regen tank (That's what Gallente favor). Maybe one day both will be viable in DustGÇª Those subclasses don't really exist in a consistent form in Dust. The Gallante are SUPPOSE to have a bit of armor, that allows them moderate speed and that they can quickly regen. While the Amarr are suppose to have the most HP period(Shield and Armor), while using their high stamina to move across the field at a consistent and pressing fashion. The Caldari are suppose to have a ton of Shields they can regen fast, with no movement penalty. While the Minmatar are suppose to have a slight bit of Shields AND Amor that they can regen at moderate speeds, while having very fast strafe speeds. These play styles aren't exactly cookie cutter from EVE. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5101	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:40:00 - [28] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: [quote=Heathen Bastard] Fit a reactive plate, takes care of all armor concerns on shield classes. Anyways, I'd rather have a seamless force that can remain mobile and provide constant fire power, than a force that has to slow down and repair to provide a short burst of power before they need to take a collective brake. But that's just the thing, Armor and Shields have different strengths and weaknesses. People just need to pick what fits them best. I do better with shields and speed, so that's what I use. So, to fix the armor/shield imbalance, I have to fit armor plates on my shield suits... NIce, yeah, lets not try to fix the problem, just tell people to fit a plate that slows them down(whoops, there goes your precious speed tanking) so that they have the "right" tank(armor) and that it repairs itself. and you can rep and walk at the same time. so cram your "armor is slow" argument. Heavies are slow. and shield heavies are again, inferior due to having the wrong tank. Basic Reactive plates have no speed penalty, and cost only 10 CPU plus 1 PG. Anyways if you can't make shields work then that's YOUR issue. All I know is that I get 2 to 3 the amount of kills, and less than half the deaths, with a shield suit over an armor suit. Shields work for me, armor doesn't work for me :: Armor works for you, shields do not work for you. That's just the way it is. Don't blame the style, blame the artist. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
Denn Maell PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 281	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:42:00 - [29] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Denn Maell wrote: Passive tanking and active tanking are not synonymous with shield and armor. In Eve you can tank his and stand and deliver with shield ships (that's what Caldari are all about), and you can fast-regen tank (That's what Gallente favor). Maybe one day both will be viable in DustGÇª Those subclasses don't really exist in a consistent form in Dust. The Gallante are SUPPOSE to have a bit of armor, that allows them moderate speed and that they can quickly regen. While the Amarr are suppose to have the most HP period(Shield and Armor), while using their high stamina to move across the field at a consistent and pressing fashion. The Caldari are suppose to have a ton of Shields they can regen fast, with no movement penalty. While the Minmatar are suppose to have a slight bit of Shields AND Amor that they can regen at moderate speeds, while having very fast strafe speeds. These play styles aren't exactly cookie cutter from EVE. I know, RepModules don't provide anywhere near enough HP/s for that style to be viable, and shield extenders are woefully pitiful for the otherGÇª Still triple rep Maddy exists, so maybe hope? The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field: One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1599	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:50:00 - [30] - Quote Technically speaking, you got the Amarr and Caldari that can take the most amount of damage, while Gallente tries to get under your guns and rips you apart with blasters and Minmatar fights in falloff range maintaining a high transversal. So technically, shield/armor shouldn't dictate playstyle; race and thus racial weaponry should. Caldari dropsuits should be able to stack shield just as easily as Amarr dropsuits, while Gallente use speed to get in close and use plasma rifles to out-DPS anything at close range and Minmatar uses speed to make aiming difficult at close to medium range. But unfortunately CCP dumbed it down to two things: you're fragile if you're a shield tanker and a brick if you're an armor tanker. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32

Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 1273	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:52:00 - [31] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: [quote=Heathen Bastard] Fit a reactive plate, takes care of all armor concerns on shield classes. Anyways, I'd rather have a seamless force that can remain mobile and provide constant fire power, than a force that has to slow down and repair to provide a short burst of power before they need to take a collective brake. But that's just the thing, Armor and Shields have different strengths and weaknesses. People just need to pick what fits them best. I do better with shields and speed, so that's what I use. So, to fix the armor/shield imbalance, I have to fit armor plates on my shield suits... NIce, yeah, lets not try to fix the problem, just tell people to fit a plate that slows them down(whoops, there goes your precious speed tanking) so that they have the "right" tank(armor) and that it repairs itself. and you can rep and walk at the same time. so cram your "armor is slow" argument. Heavies are slow. and shield heavies are again, inferior due to having the wrong tank. Basic Reactive plates have no speed penalty, and cost only 10 CPU plus 1 PG. Anyways if you can't make shields work then that's YOUR issue. All I know is that I get 2 to 3 the amount of kills, and less than half the deaths, with a shield suit over an armor suit. Shields work for me, armor doesn't work for me :: Armor works for you, shields do not work for you. That's just the way it is. Don't blame the style, blame the artist. I've used shields since closed beta. the only armor suit I've ever had was the heavy when we weren't given choice. I god-damned know what I'm doing. I hate sneaking up, shooting them in the back, and then they have time to casually turn around, twirl a cane and kill me because they have AT LEAST double my EHP. I have no issue getting most kills, I can take heavies out of buildings with simple hit and run tactics and clever use of windows and doors. I can break a logi's equipment mid-firefight. I've wiped entire rooms on nothing but surprise, a flux, an assault rail, and my titanium plated balls. I just get so tired of ALWAYS having an uphill fight, no matter the suit. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5102	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:02:00 - [32] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: I've used shields since closed beta See, you still have the mentality from that time period. Back then everybody ran shields, so you could face people in fair open gun fights and not be at a disadvantage. Things are different now, people actually use armor outside of heavies. Try being am armor tanker(medium suit) for a week. I guarantee you'll get over your "shields are worst in every possible way" attitude. You think having yo wait 20 seconds to recharge shields is bad? Try having to wait 1:30 for your armor to heal. The struggle is real, and I can guarantee that the grass is no greener on the other side. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
jerrmy12 kahoalii 1016	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:07:00 - [33] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: I've used shields since closed beta See, you still have the mentality from that time period. Back then everybody ran shields, so you could face people in fair open gun fights and not be at a disadvantage. Things are different now, people actually use armor outside of heavies. Try being am armor tanker(medium suit) for a week. I guarantee you'll get over your "shields are worst in every possible way" attitude. You think having yo wait 20 seconds to recharge shields is bad? Try having to wait 1:30 for your armor to heal. The struggle is real, and I can guarantee that the grass is no greener on the other side. lets see, 250 shields, 400+ armor, decent regen, much higher chance of winning fights, what am i missing? Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 1276	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:10:00 - [34] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: I've used shields since closed beta See, you still have the mentality from that time period. Back then everybody ran shields, so you could face people in fair open gun fights and not be at a disadvantage. Things are different now, people actually use armor outside of heavies. Try being am armor tanker(medium suit) for a week. I guarantee you'll get over your "shields are worst in every possible way" attitude. You think having yo wait 20 seconds to recharge shields is bad? Try having to wait 1:30 for your armor to heal. The struggle is real, and I can guarantee that the grass is no greener on the other side. Again, I sneak, I flank, I've always done that, it's always been my strategy in games since friggin' unreal tournament. before I was rewarded for being exponentially better, because everyone was on even ground and skill mattered. Now? you can just stack armor to make up for having no skill. I like games that are on even ground. Because then being better means you win, not you've got decent odds of winning, unless the other guy lands one lucky bullet, then you get vacuumed into the entire barrage and get chewed in half. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 4241	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:11:00 - [35] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Shields aren't meant to stand and deliver. They are meant for speed, agility and tactical positioning. Armor is meant for pressing the enemy, advancing and out lasting enemies in fair fights. When you're shield tanking you're suppose to flank hard, dodge & weave and of course retreat fast. Shields aren't meant to be used to fight people head on. You're not suppose to feel comfortable taking on an armor tanker face to face in a fair fight. Shield tankers either use their speed to close in on there opponents from behind and apply a quick burst of high damage (Minmatar), or get to tactically advantageous cover and use your fast shield regen to out shoot higher HP opponents by recovering HP faster (Caldari). Speed is much better than HP in most situations, and this is proven by how affective Scouts are against heavies who have 4-5x the health they do. So shield tankers, which I'am one, need to stop playing like armor tankers and more importantly need to stop trying to get as much bonuses as them. Shield tankers get better regen and strafe. Speed is the name of the game, USE IT TO YOUR ADANTAGE. Shields and Armour are completely different play styles and we all need to stop pretending they're the same.The only thing that shield tankers should lobby for is Shield Extenders to be changed from 22 to 33, and 33 to 44. Brofist Take my fit for example. Min Scout, with 265 shields at proto. All I need. Why? I run an enhanced energizer and a Complex Regulator. That gives me 60 shield a second and 3 second downtime. On Top of a cloak, dampener, and speed. I can engage targets, and destroy them in a game of attrition. Take down a target quickly. Weaken another. Fall back when I take damage. Cloak, re-position, re-engage. Rinse and Repeat until they all die. If reinforcements prove too much? Fall all the way back. At least you slowed them down a bit. I got my cloak and daggers, I'm a very happy Ghost I hack at Mach V
jerrmy12 kahoalii 1018	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:14:00 - [36] - Quote well my cal scout assault i cant fit a cloak...just 2 shield regs Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5104	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:15:00 - [37] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: I've used shields since closed beta See, you still have the mentality from that time period. Back then everybody ran shields, so you could face people in fair open gun fights and not be at a disadvantage. Things are different now, people actually use armor outside of heavies. Try being am armor tanker(medium suit) for a week. I guarantee you'll get over your "shields are worst in every possible way" attitude. You think having yo wait 20 seconds to recharge shields is bad? Try having to wait 1:30 for your armor to heal. The struggle is real, and I can guarantee that the grass is no greener on the other side. lets see, 250 shields, 400+ armor, decent regen, much higher chance of winning fights, what am i missing? Strafe speed, jump height, and stamina regen. A gun fight is more than just X + b = T, it's more like Watermelon -¦ Duct tape = -\|Lobster x (27++0)\| Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5104	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:16:00 - [38] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Shields aren't meant to stand and deliver. They are meant for speed, agility and tactical positioning. Armor is meant for pressing the enemy, advancing and out lasting enemies in fair fights. When you're shield tanking you're suppose to flank hard, dodge & weave and of course retreat fast. Shields aren't meant to be used to fight people head on. You're not suppose to feel comfortable taking on an armor tanker face to face in a fair fight. Shield tankers either use their speed to close in on there opponents from behind and apply a quick burst of high damage (Minmatar), or get to tactically advantageous cover and use your fast shield regen to out shoot higher HP opponents by recovering HP faster (Caldari). Speed is much better than HP in most situations, and this is proven by how affective Scouts are against heavies who have 4-5x the health they do. So shield tankers, which I'am one, need to stop playing like armor tankers and more importantly need to stop trying to get as much bonuses as them. Shield tankers get better regen and strafe. Speed is the name of the game, USE IT TO YOUR ADANTAGE. Shields and Armour are completely different play styles and we all need to stop pretending they're the same.The only thing that shield tankers should lobby for is Shield Extenders to be changed from 22 to 33, and 33 to 44. Brofist Take my fit for example. Min Scout, with 265 shields at proto. All I need. Why? I run an enhanced energizer and a Complex Regulator. That gives me 60 shield a second and 3 second downtime. On Top of a cloak, dampener, and speed. I can engage targets, and destroy them in a game of attrition. Take down a target quickly. Weaken another. Fall back when I take damage. Cloak, re-position, re-engage. Rinse and Repeat until they all die. If reinforcements prove too much? Fall all the way back. At least you slowed them down a bit. Damn straight, give me skin cuz. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 1276	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:17:00 - [39] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: I've used shields since closed beta See, you still have the mentality from that time period. Back then everybody ran shields, so you could face people in fair open gun fights and not be at a disadvantage. Things are different now, people actually use armor outside of heavies. Try being am armor tanker(medium suit) for a week. I guarantee you'll get over your "shields are worst in every possible way" attitude. You think having yo wait 20 seconds to recharge shields is bad? Try having to wait 1:30 for your armor to heal. The struggle is real, and I can guarantee that the grass is no greener on the other side. lets see, 250 shields, 400+ armor, decent regen, much higher chance of winning fights, what am i missing? Strafe speed, jump height, and stamina regen. A gun fight is more than just X + b = T, it's more like Watermelon -¦ Duct tape = -\|Lobster x (27++0)\| one bullet hits you and the "physical impulse" kills you because your precious speed just got yanked, jumps put you on a nice, predictable path, and if you live long enough to regen stamina, then the other person is terrible and should feel bad. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5104	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:19:00 - [40] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: well my cal scout assault i cant fit a cloak...just 2 shield regs Cloaks are overrated. Most good players will see you coming from a mile away anyways and anyone who can't is easy enough to take out without wearing a cloak. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ

jerrmy12 kahoalii 1018	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:19:00 - [41] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: I've used shields since closed beta See, you still have the mentality from that time period. Back then everybody ran shields, so you could face people in fair open gun fights and not be at a disadvantage. Things are different now, people actually use armor outside of heavies. Try being am armor tanker(medium suit) for a week. I guarantee you'll get over your "shields are worst in every possible way" attitude. You think having yo wait 20 seconds to recharge shields is bad? Try having to wait 1:30 for your armor to heal. The struggle is real, and I can guarantee that the grass is no greener on the other side. Strafe speed, jump height, and stamina regen. A gun fight is more than just X + b = T, it's more like Watermelon -¦ Duct tape = -\|Lobster x (27++0)\| lets see hp>speed always a logi near aim assist better fitting, for better weapons & such so, shields are SO much better Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Nelo Angel0 Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 219	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:19:00 - [42] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: yeah, shields have to run, hide, and pray whenever an armor player shows up, because they won't win a stand up fight, and the armor player has enough tank to simply turn around and gun you down if you do get the drop on them because guess what? they have shields too, and only about 200 less. while you have 1/5 the armor. because that's parity, right? to just have one side be outright weaker than the other... If I can take on heavies and their Logi minions in a Minmatar Assault(AKA Militia Caldari medium with fast stamina regen) you can fight them too. I play to the Minmatar advantage and run behind enemies and m+¬l+¬e them for 196 damage, then I finish them with CR bursts to the back of the head. The Caldari make the best use of gliding side jumps and strafing. You need to hit your opponents first to slow them down, then you dance around them to finish them. It's all about tactics. I use the caldari method: take a knee way the hell away from them and turn their face into a fine mist with a rail rifle since that's all I can do. If they get within range then I'm already dead since my regen takes forever, gets canceled out if the wind blows too hard, and oh right, THERE IS NO TEAM SUPPORT FOR SHIELDS AT ALL. I run heavies(twin RR commando and Burst HMG sent) and scouts. I have less HP than anything that isn't minmatar(and you guys can at least stack armor if you want to), run slower than minmatar, get picked up on scans easier than minmatar(that 4/2 layout is a *** for scouting modules) Armor is flat out better and has been since forever**. Just want to correct the bolded. Armor has not been good since forever, it's gotten good sometime after uprising. Up until then shields were insanely good but in classic CCP fashion they got the nerf hammer.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5104	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:23:00 - [43] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: one bullet hits you and the "physical impulse" kills you because your precious speed just got yanked, jumps put you on a nice, predictable path, and if you live long enough to regen stamina, then the other person is terrible and should feel bad. Looks like 90% of my opponents need to go give back their proto gear and go.back to the academy. Also, the stamina regen on the Minmatar Assault is ridiculously, absurdly, and even stupidly fast. You blink twice and you have half your stamina back. Also, jumps are used best when behind people, then when they start turning.around you can jump sideways to put a couple more shots in them before they can shoot back. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5104	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:26:00 - [44] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: lets see hp>speed always a logi near aim assist better fitting, for better weapons & such so, shields are SO much better If you think HP>Speed then you probably never witnessed a scout with less than 209 HP take our a heavy with more than 1k HP. It happens a lot more often then you'd think. Everybody has aim assist so it's irrelevant, and Logi's are usually cannon fodder (walking ISK). Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 1277	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:26:00 - [45] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: one bullet hits you and the "physical impulse" kills you because your precious speed just got yanked, jumps put you on a nice, predictable path, and if you live long enough to regen stamina, then the other person is terrible and should feel bad. Looks like 90% of my opponents need to go give back their proto gear and go.back to the academy. Also, the stamina regen on the Minmatar Assault is ridiculously, absurdly, and even stupidly fast. You blink twice and you have half your stamina back. Also, jumps are used best when behind people, then when they start turning.around you can jump sideways to put a couple more shots in them before they can shoot back. and then they shoot back, and you get killed. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic 882	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:34:00 - [46] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: You can do the exact same thing with a single heavy armor tanker and a logi with a core focussed rep tool. "See, it's totally balanced, you only need 4 shield guys working perfectly to do something any two braindead armor tankers can do" Except that then you have one guy who's vulnerable to be killed, and then if he does get killed then everyone he's supporting is screwed: "Pull a pin from the bottom and the whole stack falls". If you kill one guy from a group of shield tankers then the only thing that you hurt is their fire power. That's the big vulnerability of Armor tankers, you need to have a Logi, and you need to make sure they don't die. Or they are stuck to a spot because that's where they have their triage nanohive. Shield tankers don't have to be reliant on other players or equipment, and that's what makes them so flexible and adaptable. It doesn't though. All suits except the heavy can carry either a rep tool or armor rep hives. Usually isn't just one guy running some combination of that. Shield tankers don't have to rely on equipment but get no advantages from it. Armor tankers can rely solely on reppers if they must but with equipment they are all of the sudden better at regen (and it's not even close.) To me, I think balance isn't too bad in terms of hp. It's in the fitting cost and scaling that it is screwed up. That and the fact that equipment is far better than secondary shield mods
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5105	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:35:00 - [47] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: one bullet hits you and the "physical impulse" kills you because your precious speed just got yanked, jumps put you on a nice, predictable path, and if you live long enough to regen stamina, then the other person is terrible and should feel bad. Looks like 90% of my opponents need to go give back their proto gear and go.back to the academy. Also, the stamina regen on the Minmatar Assault is ridiculously, absurdly, and even stupidly fast. You blink twice and you have half your stamina back. Also, jumps are used best when behind people, then when they start turning.around you can jump sideways to put a couple more shots in them before they can shoot back. and then they shoot back, and you get killed. I just don't know what to tell you. All I know is that nothing I tell you will convince you that Shields are on par with armor. Still, I'm content knowing the proof is in the putting, and darn it that's good enough for me. I remember five months ago, when I armor tanked, I tried convincing them that Armor was fine. Anyways, go try out an armor tanked medium suit. Heck, you may just like it better than shields and switch over, or you may realize how even Shields and Armor are. Either way you spin it, the experience should be good for you. Anyways, I'm probably going to log off soon. Night, from NoVa. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
medomai grey WarRavens League of Infamy 593	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:42:00 - [48] - Quote I'd like to correct a misconception. Shield tanking does not make you faster; they don't. Although for some odd reason, stacking shield extenders make you worse at shield tanking? And the speed penalty for armor plates was reduced to non-factor levels a long time ago. Is there a balance issue between shields and armor? I believe so. Caldari medium frames are dual tanking. Stacking heavy armor reps on your vehicle heals you faster than shields can recharge, but constantly. Medium frame EHP is not medium
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 294	Posted - 2014.04.16 05:48:00 - [49] - Quote Forever ETC wrote: One thing that doesn't make sense to me is, when you get hit and receive the slow down effect, shouldn't that only happen when it hits armor? I mean, isn't the shield around you so it doesn't physically slow you down if it receives damage? physics says pushback clollison form shield absorping the shot. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5105	Posted - 2014.04.16 08:06:00 - [50] - Quote medomai grey wrote: I'd like to correct a misconception. Shield tanking does not make you faster; they don't. Although for some odd reason, stacking shield extenders make you worse at shield tanking? And the speed penalty for armor plates was reduced to non-factor levels a long time ago. Is there a balance issue between shields and armor? I believe so. Caldari medium frames are dual tanking. Stacking heavy armor reps on your vehicle heals you faster than shields can recharge, but constantly. They introduced the shield extender penalty because Armor tanking was extremely easy to do on the Logi suits and made Armor redundant as you could play like Armor, while maintaining all the good points on shields. Logi suits, particularly the Caldari Logi, have been nerfed enough that the shield extender delay penalty is no longer needed. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ

Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1599	Posted - 2014.04.16 13:09:00 - [51] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: Forever ETC wrote: One thing that doesn't make sense to me is, when you get hit and receive the slow down effect, shouldn't that only happen when it hits armor? I mean, isn't the shield around you so it doesn't physically slow you down if it receives damage? physics says pushback clollison form shield absorping the shot. And even if this is New Eden, conservation of momentum must still apply. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
RuckingFetard Better Hide R Die 783	Posted - 2014.04.16 13:20:00 - [52] - Quote Nelo Angel0 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: yeah, shields have to run, hide, and pray whenever an armor player shows up, because they won't win a stand up fight, and the armor player has enough tank to simply turn around and gun you down if you do get the drop on them because guess what? they have shields too, and only about 200 less. while you have 1/5 the armor. because that's parity, right? to just have one side be outright weaker than the other... If I can take on heavies and their Logi minions in a Minmatar Assault(AKA Militia Caldari medium with fast stamina regen) you can fight them too. I play to the Minmatar advantage and run behind enemies and m+¬l+¬e them for 196 damage, then I finish them with CR bursts to the back of the head. The Caldari make the best use of gliding side jumps and strafing. You need to hit your opponents first to slow them down, then you dance around them to finish them. It's all about tactics. I use the caldari method: take a knee way the hell away from them and turn their face into a fine mist with a rail rifle since that's all I can do. If they get within range then I'm already dead since my regen takes forever, gets canceled out if the wind blows too hard, and oh right, THERE IS NO TEAM SUPPORT FOR SHIELDS AT ALL. I run heavies(twin RR commando and Burst HMG sent) and scouts. I have less HP than anything that isn't minmatar(and you guys can at least stack armor if you want to), run slower than minmatar, get picked up on scans easier than minmatar(that 4/2 layout is a *** for scouting modules) Armor is flat out better and has been since forever*. Just want to correct the bolded. Armor has not been good since forever, it's gotten good sometime after uprising. Up until then shields were insanely good but in classic CCP fashion they got the nerf hammer. This is just pathetic. Shields were NEVER nerfed ( except for that teeny-weeny delay penalty) Running pure shield tanked Caldari 'cuz me a hippy*
Nelo Angel0 Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 219	Posted - 2014.04.16 13:50:00 - [53] - Quote RuckingFetard wrote: Nelo Angel0 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: yeah, shields have to run, hide, and pray whenever an armor player shows up, because they won't win a stand up fight, and the armor player has enough tank to simply turn around and gun you down if you do get the drop on them because guess what? they have shields too, and only about 200 less. while you have 1/5 the armor. because that's parity, right? to just have one side be outright weaker than the other... If I can take on heavies and their Logi minions in a Minmatar Assault(AKA Militia Caldari medium with fast stamina regen) you can fight them too. I play to the Minmatar advantage and run behind enemies and m+¬l+¬e them for 196 damage, then I finish them with CR bursts to the back of the head. The Caldari make the best use of gliding side jumps and strafing. You need to hit your opponents first to slow them down, then you dance around them to finish them. It's all about tactics. I use the caldari method: take a knee way the hell away from them and turn their face into a fine mist with a rail rifle since that's all I can do. If they get within range then I'm already dead since my regen takes forever, gets canceled out if the wind blows too hard, and oh right, THERE IS NO TEAM SUPPORT FOR SHIELDS AT ALL. I run heavies(twin RR commando and Burst HMG sent) and scouts. I have less HP than anything that isn't minmatar(and you guys can at least stack armor if you want to), run slower than minmatar, get picked up on scans easier than minmatar(that 4/2 layout is a *** for scouting modules) Armor is flat out better and has been since forever**. Just want to correct the bolded. Armor has not been good since forever, it's gotten good sometime after uprising. Up until then shields were insanely good but in classic CCP fashion they got the nerf hammer. This is just pathetic. Shields were NEVER nerfed ( except for that teeny-weeny delay penalty) Are you sure? I personally don't have the stats for shields prior to uprising ( chromosone ). But they were alot better than armor. Though it could have been mainly from the fact that armor had a different penalty and they didn't gve as much HP. Again, and i'm stating this not to be misquoted in the future, I don't have the stats for armor and shields before uprising and during early uprising. So most of this is remembering what CCP might've changed. Shield HP increase, though, has always been the same.
Flix Keptick Red Star. EoN. 3515	Posted - 2014.04.16 14:28:00 - [54] - Quote The recharge delay is just waaaay too long. It used to be alright before the hit detection fix. But now that combat is much faster paced a 4s recharge delay just doesn't cut it. I basically have the time to die 10 times before my shields start recharging... The community is the worst thing that ever happened to this game Caldari Scout // specialized tank destroyer
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 352	Posted - 2014.04.16 14:32:00 - [55] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Denn Maell wrote: Passive tanking and active tanking are not synonymous with shield and armor. In Eve you can tank his and stand and deliver with shield ships (that's what Caldari are all about), and you can fast-regen tank (That's what Gallente favor). Maybe one day both will be viable in DustGÇª Those subclasses don't really exist in a consistent form in Dust. The Gallante are SUPPOSE to have a bit of armor, that allows them moderate speed and that they can quickly regen. While the Amarr are suppose to have the most HP period(Shield and Armor), while using their high stamina to move across the field at a consistent and pressing fashion. The Caldari are suppose to have a ton of Shields they can regen fast, with no movement penalty. While the Minmatar are suppose to have a slight bit of Shields AND Amor that they can regen at moderate speeds, while having very fast strafe speeds. These play styles aren't exactly cookie cutter from EVE. You know why - they dropped the speed penalties. Couple that with easy to fit plates and AA and stunlock and your great theory of an op doesnt play out quite as nicely as it should. If Armor really bogged down tankers then they would use their lows with the proper mix of plates, catalysers and reps leaving the open slot for hack or range or damp. What we have is load up with cheap armor that slows you down fractionally and use the aiming mechanics to your advantage to negate any real speed advantage of the opponent. "Shine bright like a diamond"
Principus Shmoof Triariian Sardianii-Triarii Planetary Services Armed-n-Hammered 109	Posted - 2014.04.16 17:07:00 - [56] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Shields aren't meant to stand and deliver. They are meant for speed, agility and tactical positioning. Armor is meant for pressing the enemy, advancing and out lasting enemies in fair fights. When you're shield tanking you're suppose to flank hard, dodge & weave and of course retreat fast. Shields aren't meant to be used to fight people head on. You're not suppose to feel comfortable taking on an armor tanker face to face in a fair fight. Shield tankers either use their speed to close in on there opponents from behind and apply a quick burst of high damage (Minmatar), or get to tactically advantageous cover and use your fast shield regen to out shoot higher HP opponents by recovering HP faster (Caldari). Speed is much better than HP in most situations, and this is proven by how affective Scouts are against heavies who have 4-5x the health they do. So shield tankers, which I'am one, need to stop playing like armor tankers and more importantly need to stop trying to get as much bonuses as them. Shield tankers get better regen and strafe. Speed is the name of the game, USE IT TO YOUR ADANTAGE. Shields and Armour are completely different play styles and we all need to stop pretending they're the same.The only thing that shield tankers should lobby for is Shield Extenders to be changed from 22 to 33, and 33 to 44.
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 1286	Posted - 2014.04.16 17:53:00 - [57] - Quote RuckingFetard wrote: Nelo Angel0 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: yeah, shields have to run, hide, and pray whenever an armor player shows up, because they won't win a stand up fight, and the armor player has enough tank to simply turn around and gun you down if you do get the drop on them because guess what? they have shields too, and only about 200 less. while you have 1/5 the armor. because that's parity, right? to just have one side be outright weaker than the other... If I can take on heavies and their Logi minions in a Minmatar Assault(AKA Militia Caldari medium with fast stamina regen) you can fight them too. I play to the Minmatar advantage and run behind enemies and m+¬l+¬e them for 196 damage, then I finish them with CR bursts to the back of the head. The Caldari make the best use of gliding side jumps and strafing. You need to hit your opponents first to slow them down, then you dance around them to finish them. It's all about tactics. I use the caldari method: take a knee way the hell away from them and turn their face into a fine mist with a rail rifle since that's all I can do. If they get within range then I'm already dead since my regen takes forever, gets canceled out if the wind blows too hard, and oh right, THERE IS NO TEAM SUPPORT FOR SHIELDS AT ALL. I run heavies(twin RR commando and Burst HMG sent) and scouts. I have less HP than anything that isn't minmatar(and you guys can at least stack armor if you want to), run slower than minmatar, get picked up on scans easier than minmatar(that 4/2 layout is a *** for scouting modules) Armor is flat out better and has been since forever**. Just want to correct the bolded. Armor has not been good since forever, it's gotten good sometime after uprising. Up until then shields were insanely good but in classic CCP fashion they got the nerf hammer. This is just pathetic. Shields were NEVER nerfed ( except for that teeny-weeny delay penalty) Correct, armor has been buffed through the roof though. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6782	Posted - 2014.04.16 18:09:00 - [58] - Quote The only problem I see with Shields is the fact that the Basic and Enhanced Extenders don't scale well compared to Basic and Enhanced Plates. Adjusting them to 33/44/66 would seem to fix the issue. Well that, and the CPU/PG requirements. #LivingLikeLarry [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5116	Posted - 2014.04.16 18:32:00 - [59] - Quote Principus Shmoof Triariian wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Shields aren't meant to stand and deliver. They are meant for speed, agility and tactical positioning. Armor is meant for pressing the enemy, advancing and out lasting enemies in fair fights. When you're shield tanking you're suppose to flank hard, dodge & weave and of course retreat fast. Shields aren't meant to be used to fight people head on. You're not suppose to feel comfortable taking on an armor tanker face to face in a fair fight. Shield tankers either use their speed to close in on there opponents from behind and apply a quick burst of high damage (Minmatar), or get to tactically advantageous cover and use your fast shield regen to out shoot higher HP opponents by recovering HP faster (Caldari). Speed is much better than HP in most situations, and this is proven by how affective Scouts are against heavies who have 4-5x the health they do. So shield tankers, which I'am one, need to stop playing like armor tankers and more importantly need to stop trying to get as much bonuses as them. Shield tankers get better regen and strafe. Speed is the name of the game, USE IT TO YOUR ADANTAGE. Shields and Armour are completely different play styles and we all need to stop pretending they're the same.The only thing that shield tankers should lobby for is Shield Extenders to be changed from 22 to 33, and 33 to 44. Shield doesn't mean fast. Caldari weapons and tactics aren't built around speed, but are built around range. An often said quote for the Caldari weapons systems are "I don't need a fast ship, I can hit you from here". The ion pistol, rail rifle, forge gun, are all longer range weapons (Longer than their cousin hybrid, the blaster), with slower rates of fire, slower tracking, and more volley damage. Ideally, a Rail Rifle should have a lot of trouble up close, and would lose to a blaster 1v1 (pitting hybrid versus hybrid), but at range, Rail Rifle should stand tall and kill the Blaster (Being the Assault Rifle). Even though the Gallente are armor, they are most likely more agile than the Caldari, and are meant for close range combat. That's EVE, in Dust the Gallante are slower than the Caldari in every single aspect that counts. Also the Rail Rifle is stronger in CQC than the AR. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 659	Posted - 2014.04.16 18:39:00 - [60] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Forever ETC wrote: One thing that doesn't make sense to me is, when you get hit and receive the slow down effect, shouldn't that only happen when it hits armor? I mean, isn't the shield around you so it doesn't physically slow you down if it receives damage? It should be removed all together. It negatively affects everyone in the game and is more of a hassle than it's worth. I thought it was a glitch. You mean someone actually intended this!!!!

Leonid Tybalt Inner.Hell 470	Posted - 2014.04.16 19:03:00 - [61] - Quote And you base these conclusions on... What? Or are we to assume that it's only your biased and subjective opinions speaking?
Smooth Assassin Stardust incorporation IMMORTAL REGIME 1269	Posted - 2014.04.16 19:17:00 - [62] - Quote Forever ETC wrote: One thing that doesn't make sense to me is, when you get hit and receive the slow down effect, shouldn't that only happen when it hits armor? I mean, isn't the shield around you so it doesn't physically slow you down if it receives damage? The slow down effect is a bug and it occurs when shooting you're weapon or using a equipment and sprinting swiftly afterwards. Not when you're hit. *Assassination is my thing.*
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5117	Posted - 2014.04.16 21:52:00 - [63] - Quote Leonid Tybalt wrote: And you base these conclusions on... What? Or are we to assume that it's only your biased and subjective opinions speaking? I based it off my year+ of experience in this game. You can't really use math to prove that Shields are as effective as Armor it's all subjective. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 1289	Posted - 2014.04.16 22:04:00 - [64] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: And you base these conclusions on... What? Or are we to assume that it's only your biased and subjective opinions speaking? I based it off my year+ of experience in this game. You can't really use math to prove that Shields are as effective as Armor it's all subjective. and just about everyone else' opinion is the opposite. guess what? a lot of us have a year+ of experience in the game too. If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 294	Posted - 2014.04.16 22:08:00 - [65] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Shields aren't meant to stand and deliver. They are meant for speed, agility and tactical positioning. Armor is meant for pressing the enemy, advancing and out lasting enemies in fair fights. When you're shield tanking you're suppose to flank hard, dodge & weave and of course retreat fast. Shields aren't meant to be used to fight people head on. You're not suppose to feel comfortable taking on an armor tanker face to face in a fair fight. Shield tankers either use their speed to close in on there opponents from behind and apply a quick burst of high damage (Minmatar), or get to tactically advantageous cover and use your fast shield regen to out shoot higher HP opponents by recovering HP faster (Caldari). Speed is much better than HP in most situations, and this is proven by how affective Scouts are against heavies who have 4-5x the health they do. So shield tankers, which I'am one, need to stop playing like armor tankers and more importantly need to stop trying to get as much bonuses as them. Shield tankers get better regen and strafe. Speed is the name of the game, USE IT TO YOUR ADANTAGE. Shields and Armour are completely different play styles and we all need to stop pretending they're the same.The only thing that shield tankers should lobby for is Shield Extenders to be changed from 22 to 33, and 33 to 44. Aim Assist hurts shield tanking though and makes strafing almost pointless. I do agree that shields should be changed from 22 to 33 and 33 to 44. Shield tanking is definitely more viable than it used to be though. "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5119	Posted - 2014.04.16 23:30:00 - [66] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Leonid Tybalt wrote: And you base these conclusions on... What? Or are we to assume that it's only your biased and subjective opinions speaking? I based it off my year+ of experience in this game. You can't really use math to prove that Shields are as effective as Armor it's all subjective. and just about everyone else' opinion is the opposite. guess what? a lot of us have a year+ of experience in the game too. Well, why don't you go out and use an Armor suit then. You said it yourself that you have only ever used armor on heavies. I feel that if you actually used an armored medium suit you wouldn't think armor is that good. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2544	Posted - 2014.04.17 00:01:00 - [67] - Quote I think your oversimplifying the differences a bit too much there so let's look at some stats. A prototype Caldari with max skills reaches 550 SHP 150 AHP +30 HP/s With 2.5 second delay 3.5 depleted. Fit: 4+ù Extender 3x Regulator (All proto) A prototype gallante with max skills reaches 150 SHP 560 AHP +15 HP/s with 0 delay. +3 dmg mods which debuffs opponent by about 12% EHP And self repping shield buffer at 10 HP/s with 8 sec delay Fit: 2+ù Armour Plate 2x Repper 3x Light Damage Modifier That gallante suit will beat the caldari suit EVERYTIME, well at least as far as maths is concerned. Not only does the gallante have 10EHP more, he does more damage, which means the caldari must be in cover earlier which allowsvthe gallante to rep to full almost as soon as the caldari does, this results in the gallante being capable of litterally walking up to the cover bound caldari and forcing him to his terms. Nullifying the caldari stratergy. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1109	Posted - 2014.04.17 00:19:00 - [68] - Quote Yeah no sh-ít, if you can't figure out shields you must have never played halo. I would like to see low slot shield mods like regulators get a buff so I can properly shield tank instead of hybrid tanking which is just better...
KING CHECKMATE Heaven's Lost Property Dirt Nap Squad. 5108	Posted - 2014.04.17 00:29:00 - [69] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Good explanation. Simple explanation: Armor = Stand infront of someone and trade gun fire. Shields = Get hit while strafing / running to a set objective , and be at full shields by the time the enemies get there. Ambush someone , attack from behind, win, and be at full HP for the next ambush. You want to stand and fight you get armor. You want to sneak/flank or use ranged weapons, you shield tank. Like drones? = https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=153604&find=unread
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5122	Posted - 2014.04.17 01:50:00 - [70] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Good explanation. Simple explanation: Armor = Stand infront of someone and trade gun fire. Shields = Get hit while strafing / running to a set objective , and be at full shields by the time the enemies get there. Ambush someone , attack from behind, win, and be at full HP for the next ambush. You want to stand and fight you get armor. You want to sneak/flank or use ranged weapons, you shield tank. Give this ** ** a *. He understands the concept. Taco Cat backwards is still Taco Cat a¦Ñ_a¦Ñ

RuckingFetard Better Hide R Die 783	Posted - 2014.04.17 09:50:00 - [71] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: I think your oversimplifying the differences a bit too much there so let's look at some stats. A prototype Caldari with max skills reaches 550 SHP 150 AHP +30 HP/s With 2.5 second delay 3.5 depleted. Fit: 4+ù Extender 3x Regulator (All proto) A prototype gallante with max skills reaches 150 SHP 560 AHP +15 HP/s with 0 delay. +3 dmg mods which debuffs opponent by about 12% EHP And self repping shield buffer at 10 HP/s with 8 sec delay Fit: 2+ù Armour Plate 2x Repper 3x Light Damage Modifier That gallante suit will beat the caldari suit EVERYTIME, well at least as far as maths is concerned. Not only does the gallante have 10EHP more, he does more damage, which means the caldari must be in cover earlier which allowsvthe gallante to rep to full almost as soon as the caldari does, this results in the gallante being capable of litterally walking up to the cover bound caldari and forcing him to his terms. Nullifying the caldari stratergy. I read that and immediately came to the conclusion: Use Nova Knives Running pure shield tanked Caldari 'cuz me a hippy
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2547	Posted - 2014.04.17 10:45:00 - [72] - Quote RuckingFetard wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: I think your oversimplifying the differences a bit too much there so let's look at some stats. A prototype Caldari with max skills reaches 550 SHP 150 AHP +30 HP/s With 2.5 second delay 3.5 depleted. Fit: 4+ù Extender 3x Regulator (All proto) A prototype gallante with max skills reaches 150 SHP 560 AHP +15 HP/s with 0 delay. +3 dmg mods which debuffs opponent by about 12% EHP And self repping shield buffer at 10 HP/s with 8 sec delay Fit: 2+ù Armour Plate 2x Repper 3x Light Damage Modifier That gallante suit will beat the caldari suit EVERYTIME, well at least as far as maths is concerned. Not only does the gallante have 10EHP more, he does more damage, which means the caldari must be in cover earlier which allowsvthe gallante to rep to full almost as soon as the caldari does, this results in the gallante being capable of litterally walking up to the cover bound caldari and forcing him to his terms. Nullifying the caldari stratergy. I read that and immediately came to the conclusion: Use Nova Knives Interesting, but basically the only the caldar will win is if the gallante is >50m while using an AR in the middle of an open field with no cover, considering gallante are supposed to be buffer tanks, their suit is quite balanced, however the caldari who are a Shield Buffer Tanker are at a severe disadvantage. It also raises the question if shields aren't designed for frontal combat why give them tanking modules at all? The positional gameplay element is something that 'should' apply to light/minmatar suits because these suitsare purpose built with lower tank. A Shielded assault should be 'comparable' to armour suit, with small differences encouraging slightly different play styles. This current version does not do this. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 372	Posted - 2014.04.17 11:04:00 - [73] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: yeah, shields have to run, hide, and pray whenever an armor player shows up, because they won't win a stand up fight, and the armor player has enough tank to simply turn around and gun you down if you do get the drop on them because guess what? they have shields too, and only about 200 less. while you have 1/5 the armor. because that's parity, right? to just have one side be outright weaker than the other... not true at all i used to be gallente assault but now im caldari and run shields. when you stack plates on a suit it gives you a huge penalty to strafe speed so a good shield user can go toe to toe he just has to sidestep the enemy fire. The clever combatant imposes his will on the enemy, but does not allow the enemy"s will to be imposed upon him. Sun Tzu
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2548	Posted - 2014.04.17 11:27:00 - [74] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: RuckingFetard wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: I think your oversimplifying the differences a bit too much there so let's look at some stats. A prototype Caldari with max skills reaches 550 SHP 150 AHP +30 HP/s With 2.5 second delay 3.5 depleted. Fit: 4+ù Extender 3x Regulator (All proto) A prototype gallante with max skills reaches 150 SHP 560 AHP +15 HP/s with 0 delay. +3 dmg mods which debuffs opponent by about 12% EHP And self repping shield buffer at 10 HP/s with 8 sec delay Fit: 2+ù Armour Plate 2x Repper 3x Light Damage Modifier That gallante suit will beat the caldari suit EVERYTIME, well at least as far as maths is concerned. Not only does the gallante have 10EHP more, he does more damage, which means the caldari must be in cover earlier which allowsvthe gallante to rep to full almost as soon as the caldari does, this results in the gallante being capable of litterally walking up to the cover bound caldari and forcing him to his terms. Nullifying the caldari stratergy. I read that and immediately came to the conclusion: Use Nova Knives Interesting, but basically the only the caldar will win is if the gallante is >50m while using an AR in the middle of an open field with no cover, considering gallante are supposed to be buffer tanks, their suit is quite balanced, however the caldari who are a Shield Buffer Tanker are at a severe disadvantage. It also raises the question if shields aren't designed for frontal combat why give them tanking modules at all? The positional gameplay element is something that 'should' apply to light/minmatar suits because these suitsare purpose built with lower tank. A Shielded assault should be 'comparable' to armour suit, with small differences encouraging slightly different play styles. This current version does not do this. So now just for all you lovely people I will have a crack at fixing this disparity. My intention is to have the 2 fits above be 'comparable' in a ckmbat situation. 1) 4 Shield Extenders < 2 Armour Plates is fundamentally wrong, plates should not offer such a large bonus over shields. Option A) Buff Shield Extenders to 90 EHP or Option B) Nerf Armour Plates to 100 EHP In either case it will take only 3 extenders to match 2 armour plates. So while a Shield Tanker can be comparable to a buffer tanker, a full armour tanker is unmatchable. 2) Armour Suits get a free (self repping) buffer before their main Tank type, Shield tankers get a buffer after their main tank type, that does not self rep. Option A) Add +1HP/s armour reps to ALL suits. (Including Gallante) or Option B) Armour based suits do not get shield reps withojt fitting a rechargher/energizer first. In either case this eliminates the gallantes free buffer advantage as caldari either get there own buffer, or gallante only get their buffer once. As far as I am concerned this likely all that is needed, however I would not be adverse to give a slight armour repper buff to compensate 'slightly' for Shields better repping. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
RuckingFetard Better Hide R Die 783	Posted - 2014.04.17 11:29:00 - [75] - Quote CUSE TOWN333 wrote: Heathen Bastard wrote: yeah, shields have to run, hide, and pray whenever an armor player shows up, because they won't win a stand up fight, and the armor player has enough tank to simply turn around and gun you down if you do get the drop on them because guess what? they have shields too, and only about 200 less. while you have 1/5 the armor. because that's parity, right? to just have one side be outright weaker than the other... not true at all i used to be gallente assault but now im caldari and run shields. when you stack plates on a suit it gives you a huge penalty to strafe speed so a good shield user can go toe to toe he just has to sidestep the enemy fire. Unfortunately due to that stupid slowdown mechanic, this advantage is nullified, especially when trying to retreat. Running pure shield tanked Caldari 'cuz me a hippy
RuckingFetard Better Hide R Die 783	Posted - 2014.04.17 11:34:00 - [76] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: RuckingFetard wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: I think your oversimplifying the differences a bit too much there so let's look at some stats. A prototype Caldari with max skills reaches 550 SHP 150 AHP +30 HP/s With 2.5 second delay 3.5 depleted. Fit: 4+ù Extender 3x Regulator (All proto) A prototype gallante with max skills reaches 150 SHP 560 AHP +15 HP/s with 0 delay. +3 dmg mods which debuffs opponent by about 12% EHP And self repping shield buffer at 10 HP/s with 8 sec delay Fit: 2+ù Armour Plate 2x Repper 3x Light Damage Modifier That gallante suit will beat the caldari suit EVERYTIME, well at least as far as maths is concerned. Not only does the gallante have 10EHP more, he does more damage, which means the caldari must be in cover earlier which allowsvthe gallante to rep to full almost as soon as the caldari does, this results in the gallante being capable of litterally walking up to the cover bound caldari and forcing him to his terms. Nullifying the caldari stratergy. I read that and immediately came to the conclusion: Use Nova Knives Interesting, but basically the only the caldar will win is if the gallante is >50m while using an AR in the middle of an open field with no cover, considering gallante are supposed to be buffer tanks, their suit is quite balanced, however the caldari who are a Shield Buffer Tanker are at a severe disadvantage. It also raises the question if shields aren't designed for frontal combat why give them tanking modules at all? The positional gameplay element is something that 'should' apply to light/minmatar suits because these suitsare purpose built with lower tank. A Shielded assault should be 'comparable' to armour suit, with small differences encouraging slightly different play styles. This current version does not do this. So now just for all you lovely people I will have a crack at fixing this disparity. My intention is to have the 2 fits above be 'comparable' in a ckmbat situation. 1) 4 Shield Extenders < 2 Armour Plates is fundamentally wrong, plates should not offer such a large bonus over shields. Option A) Buff Shield Extenders to 90 EHP or Option B) Nerf Armour Plates to 100 EHP In either case it will take only 3 extenders to match 2 armour plates. So while a Shield Tanker can be comparable to a buffer tanker, a full armour tanker is unmatchable. 2) Armour Suits get a free (self repping) buffer before their main Tank type, Shield tankers get a buffer after their main tank type, that does not self rep. Option A) Add +1HP/s armour reps to ALL suits. (Including Gallante) or Option B) Armour based suits do not get shield reps withojt fitting a rechargher/energizer first. In either case this eliminates the gallantes free buffer advantage as caldari either get there own buffer, or gallante only get their buffer once. As far as I am concerned this likely all that is needed, however I would not be adverse to give a slight armour repper buff to compensate 'slightly' for Shields better repping. I don't think that complex extenders need buffing, rather, it's PG costs should be reduced, along with more parity between the different tiers. Honestly, if you wish to shield tank, you pretty much are forced to use complex extenders, which gimps your fit, especially at Adv and below. Alternatively, Caldari can have their base shield HP buffed , with no change to armor values. Running pure shield tanked Caldari 'cuz me a hippy
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 2549	Posted - 2014.04.17 11:44:00 - [77] - Quote RuckingFetard wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: RuckingFetard wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: I think your oversimplifying the differences a bit too much there so let's look at some stats. A prototype Caldari with max skills reaches 550 SHP 150 AHP +30 HP/s With 2.5 second delay 3.5 depleted. Fit: 4+ù Extender 3x Regulator (All proto) A prototype gallante with max skills reaches 150 SHP 560 AHP +15 HP/s with 0 delay. +3 dmg mods which debuffs opponent by about 12% EHP And self repping shield buffer at 10 HP/s with 8 sec delay Fit: 2+ù Armour Plate 2x Repper 3x Light Damage Modifier That gallante suit will beat the caldari suit EVERYTIME, well at least as far as maths is concerned. Not only does the gallante have 10EHP more, he does more damage, which means the caldari must be in cover earlier which allowsvthe gallante to rep to full almost as soon as the caldari does, this results in the gallante being capable of litterally walking up to the cover bound caldari and forcing him to his terms. Nullifying the caldari stratergy. I read that and immediately came to the conclusion: Use Nova Knives Interesting, but basically the only the caldar will win is if the gallante is >50m while using an AR in the middle of an open field with no cover, considering gallante are supposed to be buffer tanks, their suit is quite balanced, however the caldari who are a Shield Buffer Tanker are at a severe disadvantage. It also raises the question if shields aren't designed for frontal combat why give them tanking modules at all? The positional gameplay element is something that 'should' apply to light/minmatar suits because these suitsare purpose built with lower tank. A Shielded assault should be 'comparable' to armour suit, with small differences encouraging slightly different play styles. This current version does not do this. So now just for all you lovely people I will have a crack at fixing this disparity. My intention is to have the 2 fits above be 'comparable' in a ckmbat situation. 1) 4 Shield Extenders < 2 Armour Plates is fundamentally wrong, plates should not offer such a large bonus over shields. Option A) Buff Shield Extenders to 90 EHP or Option B) Nerf Armour Plates to 100 EHP In either case it will take only 3 extenders to match 2 armour plates. So while a Shield Tanker can be comparable to a buffer tanker, a full armour tanker is unmatchable. 2) Armour Suits get a free (self repping) buffer before their main Tank type, Shield tankers get a buffer after their main tank type, that does not self rep. Option A) Add +1HP/s armour reps to ALL suits. (Including Gallante) or Option B) Armour based suits do not get shield reps withojt fitting a rechargher/energizer first. In either case this eliminates the gallantes free buffer advantage as caldari either get there own buffer, or gallante only get their buffer once. As far as I am concerned this likely all that is needed, however I would not be adverse to give a slight armour repper buff to compensate 'slightly' for Shields better repping. I don't think that complex extenders need buffing, rather, it's PG costs should be reduced, along with more parity between the different tiers. Honestly, if you wish to shield tank, you pretty much are forced to use complex extenders, which gimps your fit, especially at Adv and below. Alternatively, Caldari can have their base shield HP buffed , with no change to armor values. No I think it's costs are fine at the moment, you should be forced to pick between higher EHP or better weaponry, I would even say other high slot modules need their CPU reduced to make Extenders the most expensive to fit Itme. My problem with Shileds vs Armour is that 1Armour Plate = 2 Extenders, you have to fit twice as many extenders to match armour, that means a Caldari Sentinel would require 10 extenders to match a brick tanked gallante, which just shows why caldari sentinels are nearly as popular. By making 1Armour Plate = 1.5 Extenders the EHP buffer is more comparable. It becomes close enough that armour tankers can't just brick out on armour all the time, different playstyles of both suits become more useful and prelevant. So instead of having gallante sentinels with 1900 EHP you see more of them with 1200 and 30 Hp/s reps. Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work. Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.


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