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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2544
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Posted - 2014.04.17 00:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
I think your oversimplifying the differences a bit too much there so let's look at some stats.
A prototype Caldari with max skills reaches
550 SHP 150 AHP
+30 HP/s
With 2.5 second delay 3.5 depleted.
Fit: 4+ù Extender 3x Regulator (All proto)
A prototype gallante with max skills reaches
150 SHP 560 AHP
+15 HP/s
with 0 delay. +3 dmg mods which debuffs opponent by about 12% EHP
And self repping shield buffer at 10 HP/s with 8 sec delay
Fit: 2+ù Armour Plate 2x Repper 3x Light Damage Modifier
That gallante suit will beat the caldari suit EVERYTIME, well at least as far as maths is concerned.
Not only does the gallante have 10EHP more, he does more damage, which means the caldari must be in cover earlier which allowsvthe gallante to rep to full almost as soon as the caldari does, this results in the gallante being capable of litterally walking up to the cover bound caldari and forcing him to his terms. Nullifying the caldari stratergy.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2547
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Posted - 2014.04.17 10:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
RuckingFetard wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:I think your oversimplifying the differences a bit too much there so let's look at some stats.
A prototype Caldari with max skills reaches
550 SHP 150 AHP
+30 HP/s
With 2.5 second delay 3.5 depleted.
Fit: 4+ù Extender 3x Regulator (All proto)
A prototype gallante with max skills reaches
150 SHP 560 AHP
+15 HP/s
with 0 delay. +3 dmg mods which debuffs opponent by about 12% EHP
And self repping shield buffer at 10 HP/s with 8 sec delay
Fit: 2+ù Armour Plate 2x Repper 3x Light Damage Modifier
That gallante suit will beat the caldari suit EVERYTIME, well at least as far as maths is concerned.
Not only does the gallante have 10EHP more, he does more damage, which means the caldari must be in cover earlier which allowsvthe gallante to rep to full almost as soon as the caldari does, this results in the gallante being capable of litterally walking up to the cover bound caldari and forcing him to his terms. Nullifying the caldari stratergy. I read that and immediately came to the conclusion: Use Nova Knives 
Interesting, but basically the only the caldar will win is if the gallante is >50m while using an AR in the middle of an open field with no cover, considering gallante are supposed to be buffer tanks, their suit is quite balanced, however the caldari who are a Shield Buffer Tanker are at a severe disadvantage.
It also raises the question if shields aren't designed for frontal combat why give them tanking modules at all? The positional gameplay element is something that 'should' apply to light/minmatar suits because these suitsare purpose built with lower tank. A Shielded assault should be 'comparable' to armour suit, with small differences encouraging slightly different play styles. This current version does not do this.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2548
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 11:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:RuckingFetard wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:I think your oversimplifying the differences a bit too much there so let's look at some stats.
A prototype Caldari with max skills reaches
550 SHP 150 AHP
+30 HP/s
With 2.5 second delay 3.5 depleted.
Fit: 4+ù Extender 3x Regulator (All proto)
A prototype gallante with max skills reaches
150 SHP 560 AHP
+15 HP/s
with 0 delay. +3 dmg mods which debuffs opponent by about 12% EHP
And self repping shield buffer at 10 HP/s with 8 sec delay
Fit: 2+ù Armour Plate 2x Repper 3x Light Damage Modifier
That gallante suit will beat the caldari suit EVERYTIME, well at least as far as maths is concerned.
Not only does the gallante have 10EHP more, he does more damage, which means the caldari must be in cover earlier which allowsvthe gallante to rep to full almost as soon as the caldari does, this results in the gallante being capable of litterally walking up to the cover bound caldari and forcing him to his terms. Nullifying the caldari stratergy. I read that and immediately came to the conclusion: Use Nova Knives Interesting, but basically the only the caldar will win is if the gallante is >50m while using an AR in the middle of an open field with no cover, considering gallante are supposed to be buffer tanks, their suit is quite balanced, however the caldari who are a Shield Buffer Tanker are at a severe disadvantage. It also raises the question if shields aren't designed for frontal combat why give them tanking modules at all? The positional gameplay element is something that 'should' apply to light/minmatar suits because these suitsare purpose built with lower tank. A Shielded assault should be 'comparable' to armour suit, with small differences encouraging slightly different play styles. This current version does not do this.
So now just for all you lovely people I will have a crack at fixing this disparity. My intention is to have the 2 fits above be 'comparable' in a ckmbat situation.
1) 4 Shield Extenders < 2 Armour Plates is fundamentally wrong, plates should not offer such a large bonus over shields.
Option A) Buff Shield Extenders to 90 EHP
or
Option B) Nerf Armour Plates to 100 EHP
In either case it will take only 3 extenders to match 2 armour plates. So while a Shield Tanker can be comparable to a buffer tanker, a full armour tanker is unmatchable.
2) Armour Suits get a free (self repping) buffer before their main Tank type, Shield tankers get a buffer after their main tank type, that does not self rep.
Option A) Add +1HP/s armour reps to ALL suits. (Including Gallante)
or
Option B) Armour based suits do not get shield reps withojt fitting a rechargher/energizer first.
In either case this eliminates the gallantes free buffer advantage as caldari either get there own buffer, or gallante only get their buffer once.
As far as I am concerned this likely all that is needed, however I would not be adverse to give a slight armour repper buff to compensate 'slightly' for Shields better repping.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
2549
|
Posted - 2014.04.17 11:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
RuckingFetard wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:RuckingFetard wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:I think your oversimplifying the differences a bit too much there so let's look at some stats.
A prototype Caldari with max skills reaches
550 SHP 150 AHP
+30 HP/s
With 2.5 second delay 3.5 depleted.
Fit: 4+ù Extender 3x Regulator (All proto)
A prototype gallante with max skills reaches
150 SHP 560 AHP
+15 HP/s
with 0 delay. +3 dmg mods which debuffs opponent by about 12% EHP
And self repping shield buffer at 10 HP/s with 8 sec delay
Fit: 2+ù Armour Plate 2x Repper 3x Light Damage Modifier
That gallante suit will beat the caldari suit EVERYTIME, well at least as far as maths is concerned.
Not only does the gallante have 10EHP more, he does more damage, which means the caldari must be in cover earlier which allowsvthe gallante to rep to full almost as soon as the caldari does, this results in the gallante being capable of litterally walking up to the cover bound caldari and forcing him to his terms. Nullifying the caldari stratergy. I read that and immediately came to the conclusion: Use Nova Knives Interesting, but basically the only the caldar will win is if the gallante is >50m while using an AR in the middle of an open field with no cover, considering gallante are supposed to be buffer tanks, their suit is quite balanced, however the caldari who are a Shield Buffer Tanker are at a severe disadvantage. It also raises the question if shields aren't designed for frontal combat why give them tanking modules at all? The positional gameplay element is something that 'should' apply to light/minmatar suits because these suitsare purpose built with lower tank. A Shielded assault should be 'comparable' to armour suit, with small differences encouraging slightly different play styles. This current version does not do this. So now just for all you lovely people I will have a crack at fixing this disparity. My intention is to have the 2 fits above be 'comparable' in a ckmbat situation. 1) 4 Shield Extenders < 2 Armour Plates is fundamentally wrong, plates should not offer such a large bonus over shields. Option A) Buff Shield Extenders to 90 EHP or Option B) Nerf Armour Plates to 100 EHP In either case it will take only 3 extenders to match 2 armour plates. So while a Shield Tanker can be comparable to a buffer tanker, a full armour tanker is unmatchable. 2) Armour Suits get a free (self repping) buffer before their main Tank type, Shield tankers get a buffer after their main tank type, that does not self rep. Option A) Add +1HP/s armour reps to ALL suits. (Including Gallante) or Option B) Armour based suits do not get shield reps withojt fitting a rechargher/energizer first. In either case this eliminates the gallantes free buffer advantage as caldari either get there own buffer, or gallante only get their buffer once. As far as I am concerned this likely all that is needed, however I would not be adverse to give a slight armour repper buff to compensate 'slightly' for Shields better repping. I don't think that complex extenders need buffing, rather, it's PG costs should be reduced, along with more parity between the different tiers. Honestly, if you wish to shield tank, you pretty much are forced to use complex extenders, which gimps your fit, especially at Adv and below. Alternatively, Caldari can have their base shield HP buffed , with no change to armor values.
No I think it's costs are fine at the moment, you should be forced to pick between higher EHP or better weaponry, I would even say other high slot modules need their CPU reduced to make Extenders the most expensive to fit Itme.
My problem with Shileds vs Armour is that 1Armour Plate = 2 Extenders, you have to fit twice as many extenders to match armour, that means a Caldari Sentinel would require 10 extenders to match a brick tanked gallante, which just shows why caldari sentinels are nearly as popular. By making 1Armour Plate = 1.5 Extenders the EHP buffer is more comparable. It becomes close enough that armour tankers can't just brick out on armour all the time, different playstyles of both suits become more useful and prelevant. So instead of having gallante sentinels with 1900 EHP you see more of them with 1200 and 30 Hp/s reps.
Unless your a Computer Scientist don't tell me how Game Mechanics Work.
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior of the Trees Lvl 2.
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