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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
1265
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Posted - 2014.04.16 03:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
yeah, shields have to run, hide, and pray whenever an armor player shows up, because they won't win a stand up fight, and the armor player has enough tank to simply turn around and gun you down if you do get the drop on them because guess what? they have shields too, and only about 200 less. while you have 1/5 the armor.
because that's parity, right? to just have one side be outright weaker than the other...
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
1266
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Posted - 2014.04.16 04:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:yeah, shields have to run, hide, and pray whenever an armor player shows up, because they won't win a stand up fight, and the armor player has enough tank to simply turn around and gun you down if you do get the drop on them because guess what? they have shields too, and only about 200 less. while you have 1/5 the armor.
because that's parity, right? to just have one side be outright weaker than the other... If I can take on heavies and their Logi minions in a Minmatar Assault(AKA Militia Caldari medium with fast stamina regen) you can fight them too. I play to the Minmatar advantage and run behind enemies and m+¬l+¬e them for 196 damage, then I finish them with CR bursts to the back of the head. The Caldari make the best use of gliding side jumps and strafing. You need to hit your opponents first to slow them down, then you dance around them to finish them. It's all about tactics.
I use the caldari method: take a knee way the hell away from them and turn their face into a fine mist with a rail rifle since that's all I can do. If they get within range then I'm already dead since my regen takes forever, gets canceled out if the wind blows too hard, and oh right, THERE IS NO TEAM SUPPORT FOR SHIELDS AT ALL.
I run heavies(twin RR commando and Burst HMG sent) and scouts. I have less HP than anything that isn't minmatar(and you guys can at least stack armor if you want to), run slower than minmatar, get picked up on scans easier than minmatar(that 4/2 layout is a ***** for scouting modules)
Armor is flat out better and has been since forever.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
1266
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Posted - 2014.04.16 04:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Galvan Nized wrote:Shield tanking is just not viable in the game right now. You absolutely know it is far inferior to armor tanking.
Shield tanking is far harder to fit, lacks any kind of teamwork that makes it better, regen is too meaningless when the hp gap is too hard to overcome, scales terribly, has no useful secondary mod (regulators and energizers are far too weak.)
It's one advantage, and seriously the only, is speed. Regen debate is completely moot because of rep tools/repair hives and general survivability.
Flanking and attacking is a general tactic, not one only applying to shields tankers.
Shield tankers are the best flankers though. Also team work is very much viable with Shiekd suits. Get behind a piece of cover, or in a building, with some buddies (4+). Two of you shoot at in coming enemies. Then when you two front men get two damaged they switch with the two other guys. The wounded men regen fast and get ammo, then they're ready to fight by the time the two other front men have their shields wasted. In this way Shield tankers can provide a consistent form of defence and pressure, and a much smaller group can take on a much larger force without being caught with their pants down. Armor tankers don't have the regen or general speed to pull this off.
You can do the exact same thing with a single heavy armor tanker and a logi with a core focussed rep tool.
"See, it's totally balanced, you only need 4 shield guys working perfectly to do something any two braindead armor tankers can do"
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
1266
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Posted - 2014.04.16 04:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:
You can do the exact same thing with a single heavy armor tanker and a logi with a core focussed rep tool.
"See, it's totally balanced, you only need 4 shield guys working perfectly to do something any two braindead armor tankers can do"
Except that then you have one guy who's vulnerable to be killed, and then if he does get killed then everyone he's supporting is screwed: "Pull a pin from the bottom and the whole stack falls". If you kill one guy from a group of shield tankers then the only thing that you hurt is their fire power. That's the big vulnerability of Armor tankers, you need to have a Logi, and you need to make sure they don't die. Or they are stuck to a spot because that's where they have their triage nanohive. Shield tankers don't have to be reliant on other players or equipment, and that's what makes them so flexible and adaptable.
the situation you supplied had cover, the logi was safe and the area was unassailable. so yes, I was right those two would do the job of four, much more skilled and aware players.
and that non-reliance also makes them tremendously weak. they have no one the can rely on and everyone knows they can just ignore you. an armor tanker can always find a logi who wants some free points when they're solo. A shield tanker will be lucky to scrounge the scraps of nanohives if they're solo, and if by some miracle, you get armor chewed without dieing, you're going to carry that lower HP for the rest of the game, should you live that long.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
1267
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Posted - 2014.04.16 04:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:[quote=Heathen Bastard]
Fit a reactive plate, takes care of all armor concerns on shield classes.
Anyways, I'd rather have a seamless force that can remain mobile and provide constant fire power, than a force that has to slow down and repair to provide a short burst of power before they need to take a collective brake.
But that's just the thing, Armor and Shields have different strengths and weaknesses. People just need to pick what fits them best. I do better with shields and speed, so that's what I use.
So, to fix the armor/shield imbalance, I have to fit armor plates on my shield suits... NIce, yeah, lets not try to fix the problem, just tell people to fit a plate that slows them down(whoops, there goes your precious speed tanking) so that they have the "right" tank(armor) and that it repairs itself.
and you can rep and walk at the same time. so cram your "armor is slow" argument. Heavies are slow. and shield heavies are again, inferior due to having the wrong tank.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
1273
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Posted - 2014.04.16 04:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:[quote=Heathen Bastard]
Fit a reactive plate, takes care of all armor concerns on shield classes.
Anyways, I'd rather have a seamless force that can remain mobile and provide constant fire power, than a force that has to slow down and repair to provide a short burst of power before they need to take a collective brake.
But that's just the thing, Armor and Shields have different strengths and weaknesses. People just need to pick what fits them best. I do better with shields and speed, so that's what I use. So, to fix the armor/shield imbalance, I have to fit armor plates on my shield suits... NIce, yeah, lets not try to fix the problem, just tell people to fit a plate that slows them down(whoops, there goes your precious speed tanking) so that they have the "right" tank(armor) and that it repairs itself. and you can rep and walk at the same time. so cram your "armor is slow" argument. Heavies are slow. and shield heavies are again, inferior due to having the wrong tank. Basic Reactive plates have no speed penalty, and cost only 10 CPU plus 1 PG. Anyways if you can't make shields work then that's YOUR issue. All I know is that I get 2 to 3 the amount of kills, and less than half the deaths, with a shield suit over an armor suit. Shields work for me, armor doesn't work for me :: Armor works for you, shields do not work for you. That's just the way it is. Don't blame the style, blame the artist.
I've used shields since closed beta. the only armor suit I've ever had was the heavy when we weren't given choice. I god-damned know what I'm doing. I hate sneaking up, shooting them in the back, and then they have time to casually turn around, twirl a cane and kill me because they have AT LEAST double my EHP.
I have no issue getting most kills, I can take heavies out of buildings with simple hit and run tactics and clever use of windows and doors. I can break a logi's equipment mid-firefight. I've wiped entire rooms on nothing but surprise, a flux, an assault rail, and my titanium plated balls.
I just get so tired of ALWAYS having an uphill fight, no matter the suit.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
1276
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Posted - 2014.04.16 05:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:
I've used shields since closed beta
See, you still have the mentality from that time period. Back then everybody ran shields, so you could face people in fair open gun fights and not be at a disadvantage. Things are different now, people actually use armor outside of heavies. Try being am armor tanker(medium suit) for a week. I guarantee you'll get over your "shields are worst in every possible way" attitude. You think having yo wait 20 seconds to recharge shields is bad? Try having to wait 1:30 for your armor to heal. The struggle is real, and I can guarantee that the grass is no greener on the other side.
Again, I sneak, I flank, I've always done that, it's always been my strategy in games since friggin' unreal tournament. before I was rewarded for being exponentially better, because everyone was on even ground and skill mattered. Now? you can just stack armor to make up for having no skill.
I like games that are on even ground. Because then being better means you win, not you've got decent odds of winning, unless the other guy lands one lucky bullet, then you get vacuumed into the entire barrage and get chewed in half.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
1276
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Posted - 2014.04.16 05:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:
I've used shields since closed beta
See, you still have the mentality from that time period. Back then everybody ran shields, so you could face people in fair open gun fights and not be at a disadvantage. Things are different now, people actually use armor outside of heavies. Try being am armor tanker(medium suit) for a week. I guarantee you'll get over your "shields are worst in every possible way" attitude. You think having yo wait 20 seconds to recharge shields is bad? Try having to wait 1:30 for your armor to heal. The struggle is real, and I can guarantee that the grass is no greener on the other side. lets see, 250 shields, 400+ armor, decent regen, much higher chance of winning fights, what am i missing? Strafe speed, jump height, and stamina regen. A gun fight is more than just X + b = T, it's more like Watermelon -¦ Duct tape = -|Lobster x (27++0)|
one bullet hits you and the "physical impulse" kills you because your precious speed just got yanked, jumps put you on a nice, predictable path, and if you live long enough to regen stamina, then the other person is terrible and should feel bad.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
1277
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Posted - 2014.04.16 05:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:
one bullet hits you and the "physical impulse" kills you because your precious speed just got yanked, jumps put you on a nice, predictable path, and if you live long enough to regen stamina, then the other person is terrible and should feel bad.
Looks like 90% of my opponents need to go give back their proto gear and go.back to the academy. Also, the stamina regen on the Minmatar Assault is ridiculously, absurdly, and even stupidly fast. You blink twice and you have half your stamina back. Also, jumps are used best when behind people, then when they start turning.around you can jump sideways to put a couple more shots in them before they can shoot back.
and then they shoot back, and you get killed.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
1286
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Posted - 2014.04.16 17:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
RuckingFetard wrote:Nelo Angel0 wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Heathen Bastard wrote:yeah, shields have to run, hide, and pray whenever an armor player shows up, because they won't win a stand up fight, and the armor player has enough tank to simply turn around and gun you down if you do get the drop on them because guess what? they have shields too, and only about 200 less. while you have 1/5 the armor.
because that's parity, right? to just have one side be outright weaker than the other... If I can take on heavies and their Logi minions in a Minmatar Assault(AKA Militia Caldari medium with fast stamina regen) you can fight them too. I play to the Minmatar advantage and run behind enemies and m+¬l+¬e them for 196 damage, then I finish them with CR bursts to the back of the head. The Caldari make the best use of gliding side jumps and strafing. You need to hit your opponents first to slow them down, then you dance around them to finish them. It's all about tactics. I use the caldari method: take a knee way the hell away from them and turn their face into a fine mist with a rail rifle since that's all I can do. If they get within range then I'm already dead since my regen takes forever, gets canceled out if the wind blows too hard, and oh right, THERE IS NO TEAM SUPPORT FOR SHIELDS AT ALL. I run heavies(twin RR commando and Burst HMG sent) and scouts. I have less HP than anything that isn't minmatar(and you guys can at least stack armor if you want to), run slower than minmatar, get picked up on scans easier than minmatar(that 4/2 layout is a ***** for scouting modules) Armor is flat out better and has been since forever. Just want to correct the bolded. Armor has not been good since forever, it's gotten good sometime after uprising. Up until then shields were insanely good but in classic CCP fashion they got the nerf hammer. This is just pathetic. Shields were NEVER nerfed ( except for that teeny-weeny delay penalty)
Correct, armor has been buffed through the roof though.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
1289
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Posted - 2014.04.16 22:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Leonid Tybalt wrote:And you base these conclusions on... What? Or are we to assume that it's only your biased and subjective opinions speaking?  I based it off my year+ of experience in this game. You can't really use math to prove that Shields are as effective as Armor it's all subjective.
and just about everyone else' opinion is the opposite. guess what? a lot of us have a year+ of experience in the game too.
If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
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