i dont even bother tanking my scout gk.o i mianly use dual enhanced profile damps and 2 enhanced kincats with creodron shotgun/ionpistol. with complex light/sidearm mods. lots of firepower and basically inviasble with 9.55m/s sprint. this is a far better fit in my opinon than putting on plates as i cant clsoe the gap quick enough with the shotgun while useing plates.

Cloak is not OP: From a guy who uses cloaking

Can you please say something intelligent to prove that I m wrong instead of trying to troll?.

It isn't quite accurate to say it is the plates that are OP. Medium frames use armor plates heavily too, and nobody is calling them OP right now. The problem is the ability for a scout to have more tank than some medium frames and commandos. Nerfing plates would just nerf mediums at the same time, leaving us with the same problem.

Maybe scouts should just receive a flat fitting penalty to plates of 20% (or some other number). ie: not affected by skill level. Then they have a choice: max tank, or cloak. The idea that is that you could do a heavily tanked passive scan squad support scout, or be a paper tiger.

It isn't quite accurate to say it is the plates that are OP. Medium frames use armor plates heavily too, and nobody is calling them OP right now. The problem is the ability for a scout to have more tank than some medium frames and commandos. Nerfing plates would just nerf mediums at the same time, leaving us with the same problem.

Maybe scouts should just receive a flat fitting penalty to plates of 20% (or some other number). ie: not affected by skill level. Then they have a choice: max tank, or cloak. The idea that is that you could do a heavily tanked passive scan squad support scout, or be a paper tiger.

I've made valid arguments about cloaking being OP in the past. I would hate to repeat myself, but from a cloaking point-of-view you will defend it because of the astronomical advantages you people have.

I'm not "trolling" just pointing out that we can't believe a guy who says something isn't op if he uses it himself.

You can Fit it how you Fit it.. And I dont think it is OP, but you could Fit it how I did on protofits and it looks really OP. That is why I m not saying that the gal scout is OP, I m saying that armor plates are OP, or better, they are way stronger than shield extenders because of their weight in cpu/pg

I m not just saying "I got killed while cloaked, clearly not OP!!! 11one!!"
I m trying to explain why it isnt OP, why people think it is OP and what is really OP instead.

So putting the blame on something never even considered OP and placing unlikely scenarios as a way to defend cloaking is a way to make people instantly think cloaking is not OP

Unlikely scenarios? Do you Consider team work an Unlikely scenario??? I suddenly know why you Consider cloak so OP

Armor plates.

But first let me explain why the cloak isn't OP.
First of all: it doesn't make you invisible. If You pay attention you can See cloaked scouts when they are moving (you can See them while they stand still but it is harder).

If a cloaked scout wants to kill you he has to come near to you, he can do that in front of you or from behind. If he runs in front of you And You can't see him... Well... You have to be blind! If he approaches you from behind he is doing something he could do without a cloak, the cloak just helps him a bit. You couldnt have seen him anyway even if he was uncloaked.

Second: when I scout 9/10 of my Kills come from players that play all alone on the battlefield. If You are playing all alone in a medium or heavy suits you are doing it wrong. Scouts are supposed to play alone, other suits aren't. You should stick with your team and watch the back of your mates. This Way you can destroy a cloaked scout if he is stupid enough to engage.

3 the cloak isn't given for free. It is heavy. The Basic one occupies 40 cpu and 9 pg, the adv 58 cpu and 12 pg, the cmplx 82 cpu and 17 pg (on a scout suit with 5 in the skill)
If you want to Fit a cloak you have to give up on something else. In a caldari or a Min scout if you want an adv cloak you better use low pg modules, no nades maybe and a low pg Secondary equipment.

What about Gallente and amarr? Using Basic armor plate to tank they are able to Fit Whatever they want because of the OPNESS of armor plates, they give you a lot of hp and they only uses 10 cpu and 1 pg.

I have fitted a gal scout with: 2 cmplx shield ext 2 Basic armor plates, a cmplx kincat, a cmplx cardiac regulator, boundless combat rifle, ishukone smg, m1 locus nades, adv cloak, allotek nanohives (proto).
It has an Incredible fire power (2 proto weapons and adv nades) a lot of hp (580), tons of stamina and stamina recharge, a good passive scanner and invisibility, it is fast 8.66 speed, an innate armor repair rate of 3 helped by PROTO nanohives!!

The point of the thread is: cloak isn't OP, scouts aren't OP, armor plates are OP!

What do you think?

Yes teamwork. You honestly can't expect cloaking can be easy to predict with or without teamwork. Why? Because most players will be too focused on defending or ACTUAL strategy that a cloaked scout are unpredictable that it's difficult to have just one or a few guys stand around looking for scouts. Even with detector mods you will still have difficulties actually finding the guy. Cloaking from my point-of-view is used as a "Troll" rather than an actual tactic; but most cloaked users are too self centered thinking it's a weak equipment and there are different ways to counter it.
For example. This thread.

It sounds like you are afraid to get hit by the nerf bat

I m not afraid of the nerf Bat it is just that I m Tired of receiving hatemails because I use a scout with cloak (I run a minscout!! How can you Consider it op???).

@Adell I dont know how you play but I dont have to stand around to see things on the battlefield, if the scout approaches you from the back in the Middle of a gun fight what helped him doing so? His cloak or his play Style? Would you be able to see him when he comes from your back, cloaked or not?

I agree that this situation where scouts hp and profile are over the top is problematic. In my opinion making the scout suffer les agility and less speed and more noticeble to scanners while using armor plates would disencourage brick tanking scouts.

I m Tired of all these "cloak is OP", the real problem with scout is..

I agree that this situation where scouts hp and profile are over the top is problematic. In my opinion making the scout suffer les agility and less speed and more noticeble to scanners while using armor plates would disencourage brick tanking scouts.

Have a scout, Logi with proper tools or fittings and then problem solved. It's not cloak's fault that players don't know how to play, defend or approach an objective...

Yes teamwork. You honestly can't expect cloaking can be easy to predict with or without teamwork. Why? Because most players will be too focused on defending or ACTUAL strategy that a cloaked scout are unpredictable that it's difficult to have just one or a few guys stand around looking for scouts. Even with detector mods you will still have difficulties actually finding the guy. Cloaking from my point-of-view is used as a "Troll" rather than an actual tactic; but most cloaked users are too self centered thinking it's a weak equipment and there are different ways to counter it.
For example. This thread.

It sounds like you are afraid to get hit by the nerf bat

I was hoping to open the thread and see.. "the negative community."

or... "people that think they know it all."

This game is like real life. If you don't like the environment you are in, leave. Example: Hostile job environment, just leave.

And then secondly, if you are so great at designing a balanced game, please list your references of triple A games that you were the lead designer on. Otherwise, don't sound so matter of fact in your statements.

"How to play"
I guess there is suppose to be an exact way to play with everyone being open to their own tactics, while cloaking scouts can run freely in close-range space with shotguns near objective? I guess if we spend time forgetting about objective and killing cloaking scouts, they will probably say to themselves "Hey, I think we should stop cloaking"

Actually, just perusing the forums, much of the cloak qq has died down simply because now they're not "new" anymore and people know what to look for/how to play against them. People grew so used to having everything permascanned that it really was a change to have to, you know, use your eyeballs to find targets.

Can you plz quote the part where I said that I m" so great at designing a balanced game"? It make it look like I dont Like the Job that ccp is doing but the problem is.... I actually love what they are doing!

It is not that I dont Like the environment it is just that I dont Like QQs.

Can you plz stay on Topic instead of just try to insult me? Thank you very much

Who are you calling self-centered? Seeing soo much QQ from you about cloaks in every post actually motivated me to view all of your posts. I challenge anyone to do the same. You repeatedly stroke your own ego, talk down to others, make ridiculous claims like how your LAV is always getting hit by 3 heavies at once whenever you call it in, or how your so godlike in your LAV driving lol. Dude go on somewhere! Your obvious exaggerations and narcissistic attitude betray the real issue, your mad your crutch got taken away. Your elevated opinion of your own "godlike skills", (your words not mine), means you simply cannot comprehend that anyone could beat you in a fair fight.

Go ahead and call me a liar, the proof is in your posts. All one must do to verify it is to click on your name and check it out themselves. The pattern practically leaps off the screen.

Go play the game, or better yet don't. Your constant vitriol towards anyone that has a differing opinion is tiring. Taken from your own words, "90% of the time I am killed while hacking by someone cloaked", I cleaned it up a bit but that's the statement. Basically this shows everything I said to be true: 1) lack of facts, what does a cloak have to do with getting shot in the back while hacking? 2) Others find you equally annoying, hence why you have no team members to watch your back while you hack.

Why is a "godlike LAV driver", trying to hack objectives? Do you even check the objective first? <-Rhetorical Questions btw

Just pointing out an important thing: AA still detects you even if you're cloaked, just saying...

-Long Quote past Ps3 text limit-

Actually, just perusing the forums, much of the cloak qq has died down simply because now they're not "new" anymore and people know what to look for/how to play against them. People grew so used to having everything permascanned that it really was a change to have to, you know, use your eyeballs to find targets.

Like i said before... Now that you need to set your squad up properly to be effective... People are crying cause Teamwork is OP and no more SOLO BS.... Soloist get stomped and should get stomped...

Most of my time playing is either driving an LAV or snipping.

Only people that play in the Middle of the battlefield can know if cloak is OP... Just saying.

What do you think?

Only people that play in the Middle of the battlefield can know if cloak is OP... Just saying.

I go by examples and experience. If I was actually in the battlefield you would just be using the "QQ" as an excuse to make yourself seem like you're right.

I think cloaks are OP, and armor plates have little to nothing do with it.

Signed, An invisible Cal Scout who can see everything to 70m

I still have to see a single argument from you.
Where do you experience comes from? Cant you see scouts while you are on your taxi?

Sniping. I see cloaked scouts easily rushing towards people and killing a group by themselves while team is distracted. I can vaguely see the blue spots but have difficulties shooting them with a 12" television

I think cloaks are OP, and armor plates have little to nothing do with it.

Signed, An invisible Cal Scout who can see everything to 70m

This is an argument, but it's hardware related. It's like complaining about your 1999 computer unable to run Eve at all.

Sniping. I see cloaked scouts easily rushing towards people and killing a group by themselves while team is distracted. I can vaguely see the blue spots but have difficulties shooting them with a 12" television

Can you plz quote the part where I said that I m" so great at designing a balanced game"? It make it look like I dont Like the Job that ccp is doing but the problem is.... I actually love what they are doing!

It is not that I dont Like the environment it is just that I dont Like QQs.

Can you plz stay on Topic instead of just try to insult me? Thank you very much

I wasn't quoting you. It was more of an interjection of thought cause I didn't read it past the title and the first couple words. I was already disappointed by word two cause the post wan't something that I hoped it was going to be. That is all.

So basically you "insult" me and make joke of me after only reading the title of my post... That s really mature.

No, the problem with scouts isn't armor plates. It's the fact that we went from 45 profile down to 35 - that's right a scout with *NO* skills invested in profile dampening inherently dodges advanced scanners from anyone but gal-logi's... and on top of that the scouts 5% profile dampening per level was switched over to the cloaking device (on all scouts except the gallente who still have the inherent dampening), making most scouts even harder to scan. If you have 1 complex profile dampener on your scout and a cloaking device you cant be scanned by anything except for a gallogi with a proto scanner, if you have 2 complex damps he needs a focused proto scanner.

surely your problem is with the current state of scanners - scouts could always evade ADV scanners passively, all this does is make it so new guys getting into scouting (or wanting to try it out) don't have to wait an extra couple of weeks to actually be able to avoid the most widely used scanner - it's not really OP just easier to obtain. If anything, older scouts like me should be bitter about that.

It's actually kinda harder for non-gals to avoid proto scanners now, before you only needed max skills and a basic damp. The only scout that could possibly evade a focused scan before was a protofit gal scout using all low slots, which was kinda ridiculous against even level opponents. Also, cloaking has to be active to provide that bonus (which you still have to spend significant SP to use)

On top of that scouts got some pretty insane stamina buffs across the board, and the cloaking device has no transitory period from 'cloaked' to 'shooting', in fact you can often 'decloak' and get a shot or two off before you're even through the animation.

first - stamina bonuses being insane? Does that make Amarr the most OP scout? I don't think people reckon the stamina bonus is OP, it was always a basic change scouts always cried for, because we knew it would help us without anyone getting all QQey about...As for the cloak switch shoot - everybody knows its an unintentional feature that needs fixing - like 360 scans did. In fact it's the first thing CCP should change before considering anything else in IMHO).

Now I'm fine with the buffs to powergrid, cpu and slots because honestly scouts *needed* those buffs, but the massive buffs to profile weren't needed and are causing the problems.

The overall *massive* buffs to the scouts base stats in terms of profile and stamina are what are making scouts so problematic - if 'bad' scouts could be more easily countered with advanced scanners, you'd see more people using advanced scanners.

seriously - the potential HP advantage on top of the stealth is what the reasonable QQ is about - and that is all down to armour plates

I was playing with a proto minmatar scout beforehand on my alt, and I'm playing with a proto caldari scout now on my main, and I frequently run with 2 proto gallente scout friends (one of whom switched over to cal scout with the patch). Cloaks do need some balancing, but hitting scouts for 5 profile would fix some of the problems.

Here I disagree with you. Teamwork is king - there's no doubt. But there has to be a place for the solo player and that ties in with the NPE issue and keeping hold of casual players. In fairness - scouts are the solo player experience.

Not "QQ" about anything. I point out different counters about the Op's "strategy" to counter cloaking, but most people automatically think I'm getting killed by cloakers everyday.
Most of my post get taken the wrong way by people who I am arguing with (Even posts where I'm making a joke.) Most of my time playing is either driving an LAV or snipping. I rarely have any actual encounters with cloaking scouts. The whole "90% I die" was when I jump in to assist hack or hacking something to give my team an advantage while driving.

I would also like to add I use cloaking in few occasions as a tactical way to get closer to objective rather than use it for kills....

Armor plates.

But first let me explain why the cloak isn't OP.
First of all: it doesn't make you invisible. If You pay attention you can See cloaked scouts when they are moving (you can See them while they stand still but it is harder).

If a cloaked scout wants to kill you he has to come near to you, he can do that in front of you or from behind. If he runs in front of you And You can't see him... Well... You have to be blind! If he approaches you from behind he is doing something he could do without a cloak, the cloak just helps him a bit. You couldnt have seen him anyway even if he was uncloaked.

Second: when I scout 9/10 of my Kills come from players that play all alone on the battlefield. If You are playing all alone in a medium or heavy suits you are doing it wrong. Scouts are supposed to play alone, other suits aren't. You should stick with your team and watch the back of your mates. This Way you can destroy a cloaked scout if he is stupid enough to engage.

3 the cloak isn't given for free. It is heavy. The Basic one occupies 40 cpu and 9 pg, the adv 58 cpu and 12 pg, the cmplx 82 cpu and 17 pg (on a scout suit with 5 in the skill)
If you want to Fit a cloak you have to give up on something else. In a caldari or a Min scout if you want an adv cloak you better use low pg modules, no nades maybe and a low pg Secondary equipment.

What about Gallente and amarr? Using Basic armor plate to tank they are able to Fit Whatever they want because of the OPNESS of armor plates, they give you a lot of hp and they only uses 10 cpu and 1 pg.

I have fitted a gal scout with: 2 cmplx shield ext 2 Basic armor plates, a cmplx kincat, a cmplx cardiac regulator, boundless combat rifle, ishukone smg, m1 locus nades, adv cloak, allotek nanohives (proto).
It has an Incredible fire power (2 proto weapons and adv nades) a lot of hp (580), tons of stamina and stamina recharge, a good passive scanner and invisibility, it is fast 8.66 speed, an innate armor repair rate of 3 helped by PROTO nanohives!!

The point of the thread is: cloak isn't OP, scouts aren't OP, armor plates are OP!

What do you think?

MINA...it's like you came from a parallel dimension where people have vastly different reasons to QQ about scouts...

I do agree that the ewar mechanics in general need some serious attention however.

Can you please say something intelligent to prove that I m wrong instead of trying to troll? Thank you.

cloaks are op 4 these reasons esp on scouts

1 able to shoot from cloak

2 able to recloak if is was not exhausted before uncloaking have seen it meany times where scout keeps disappearing and then shooting some 1 only to recloak in under 30 sec ( cool down before able to recloak not working)

both of these seem to be a glich( unintended effect) and are the biggest problem there should be a short delay of a sec or 2 before a player can shoot from being cloaked

3 combined near invisibility with added profile damping
scouts all ready were near invisible on scans and with passive suit scans

4 the cpu is very high to use on any thing but a skilled scout
over 100 cpu at lowest level try fitting it on any suit at a base or adv level with out having max skills that add cpu and pg then what can u put on the suit with it ? all most nothing

5 yes u can see a cloaked guy moving ( sprinting) but if he is walking or just standing in 1 spot they are close to invisible or a shadow or the sun is low in the sky it gives too much to 1 guy

combine all these things with a shot gun that at the lowest level will kill a proto heavy in 3 to 4 shots yes it makes a scout shot gun cloak very op

what a lot of players seem to forget is that not every one in the game has 20 mill sp invested in there guy or has 2 to 3 mill (extra) sp to just skill in to the next new thing
with out new players in the game that stay with the game how long will dust last?
unless ccp is relining on eve to support dust ?

There are multiple problems.

Cloak is op because you can shot 1/2 hit before actually decloacking (Glitch)

People can ISTANT recloack, and the cloak don't turn off when you get hit.

Another source of the problem are the CAL/GAL scout and the fact that they seem balanced on 1,7 stat.

The Caldari can passive scan( 360-24/24) at 27DB in 37M with skill only. They don't need to sacrifice nothing for this result. This with the lowest shield regen except for the Cal.sent ( in one case is the best), with a 50HP per sec recharge (no need for charger o energ.)

We have to remember that a scout have to give up to better weapons and modules to have this cloak, it have to give us some bonuses

Ummm, no you don't. Hop onto protofits turn on max skills, and you can completely proto out a gal scout gk.0. I already posted on this in another thread but I'll restate it here. A fully skilled gal gk.0 wearer can fit: 989 ehp, a proto RR (specialist), a proto Magsec SMG, a cloak, and flux nades.

The problem here isn't necessarily the tanking but the fact that the scout does not really need to make any sacrifices here. With the fit that I described the scout can cloak, out DPS almost any suit at pretty long ranges (though they could easily fit a proto-SG and NK as well), have an extremely damaging mid-short range side arm, run faster than any med frame, be invisble to almost all scans (passive cal scouts would need to fit complex precision enhancers to see it and gal logis would need a proto scanner), its flux lets it easily take out eq and do serious damage to infantry. Heck, the flux even makes it a worry for shield tanks as 1500 damage is enough to scare most shield tankers. I can find absolutely no sacrifices of a meaningful sort in this fit.