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How to un**** the situation with Scouts + Cloaks

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Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1031	Posted - 2014.04.03 16:40:00 - [1] - Quote 1. Change Racial bonus to 5-10% reduction of CPG/PG for cloaks, I can still fit PRO EVERYTHING on the suit since a STD cloak is enough to go on a rampage. If not this then lower duration/recharge. 2. If I shoot someone cloaked, THE CLOAK IS GONE. A 5 sec delay starts and after that the equipment slowly recharges. 3. Lower Shotgun damage to Chromosome build stats (33-35-37?), it's TOO EASY to kill other dropsuits thanks to cloaks (heavies are free kills, not even a slight struggle). Uprising 1.8 - Invisible War
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 4986	Posted - 2014.04.03 16:44:00 - [2] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: 1. Change Racial bonus to 5-10% reduction of CPG/PG for cloaks, I can still fit PRO EVERYTHING on the suit since a STD cloak is enough to go on a rampage. If not this then lower duration/recharge. 2. If I shoot someone cloaked, THE CLOAK IS GONE. A 5 sec delay starts and after that the equipment slowly recharges. 3. Lower Shotgun damage to Chromosome build stats (33-35-37?), it's TOO EASY to kill other dropsuits thanks to cloaks (heavies are free kills, not even a slight struggle). Even easier: Increase the time it takes to draw your weapon after dropping cloak Add a cooldown before you can "re-cloak", possibly one that starts out at something like 15 seconds and reduces to 10 on the PRO version. Make all the hit effects show up properly on a cloaked Scout when you shoot them, rather than right now where it's hard to tell if you're hitting them. That means shield flare and that little splash effect when you hit armor. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 434	Posted - 2014.04.03 16:45:00 - [3] - Quote cloaks and scouts are fine just as they are
Everything Dies Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 616	Posted - 2014.04.03 16:47:00 - [4] - Quote I wouldn't mind seeing the basic cloak act as more of a get-the-f-out-of-Dodge piece of equipment; limit it to 5 seconds or so (and reduce the recharge time slightly) and have it function as a way for scouts to try and escape from a gunfight. If not that, then I support the idea of lowering the scout suit/cloak bonus (or even lowering the CPU/PG of the suits) to force players to choose what they're willing to give up to have a cloak. "Trust and you'll be trusted," says the liar to the fool.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 202	Posted - 2014.04.03 16:47:00 - [5] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: 1. Change Racial bonus to 5-10% reduction of CPG/PG for cloaks, I can still fit PRO EVERYTHING on the suit since a STD cloak is enough to go on a rampage. If not this then lower duration/recharge. 2. If I shoot someone cloaked, THE CLOAK IS GONE. A 5 sec delay starts and after that the equipment slowly recharges. 3. Lower Shotgun damage to Chromosome build stats (33-35-37?), it's TOO EASY to kill other dropsuits thanks to cloaks (heavies are free kills, not even a slight struggle). 1 and 2 are fine, but if you nerf the shotgun stats, they better fix that hit detection and sprinting bugs. "One does not simply" look for a scout, it looks for you.
Dingleburt Bangledack Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 140	Posted - 2014.04.03 16:48:00 - [6] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: 1. Change Racial bonus to 5-10% reduction of CPG/PG for cloaks, I can still fit PRO EVERYTHING on the suit since a STD cloak is enough to go on a rampage. If not this then lower duration/recharge. 2. If I shoot someone cloaked, THE CLOAK IS GONE. A 5 sec delay starts and after that the equipment slowly recharges. 3. Lower Shotgun damage to Chromosome build stats (33-35-37?), it's TOO EASY to kill other dropsuits thanks to cloaks (heavies are free kills, not even a slight struggle). 1. I can get behind this. Where before you couldn't fit jack on a scout suit, I can now fit anything and everything I want without any problems. 2. I couldn't care less about this one. Do it or don't. Makes no difference to me. 3. No. Just no. Nobody cried about the shotgun (which retains the EXACT SAME killing potential it had before) until the cloak came along. Stop blaming SGs for the faults of the cloak. Add the firing delay everyone wants (and that should've already been implemented) instead.
Dexter307 the unholy legion of darkstar 1301	Posted - 2014.04.03 16:50:00 - [7] - Quote Oh god no Only thing that should disable cloaks are flux grenades
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 985	Posted - 2014.04.03 16:56:00 - [8] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: 1. Change Racial bonus to 5-10% reduction of CPG/PG for cloaks, I can still fit PRO EVERYTHING on the suit since a STD cloak is enough to go on a rampage. If not this then lower duration/recharge. 2. If I shoot someone cloaked, THE CLOAK IS GONE. A 5 sec delay starts and after that the equipment slowly recharges. 3. Lower Shotgun damage to Chromosome build stats (33-35-37?), it's TOO EASY to kill other dropsuits thanks to cloaks (heavies are free kills, not even a slight struggle). 1. This is completely unfair to players that are low SP. See here for an explanation.. Also, the idea of a Cloak was for Scouts to fit it easily; without restriction. 2. I am not sure on this one completely. I could get behind damage causing the user to completely appear and for a second after taking damage but for 1 bullet to instantly strip cloak is a bit much. 3. Nerfing Shotguns because Cloaks allow them to be more easily used is unfair to Shotguns and people that use Shotguns without being a Scout. "People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
Aramis Madrigal SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 206	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:00:00 - [9] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: 1. Change Racial bonus to 5-10% reduction of CPG/PG for cloaks, I can still fit PRO EVERYTHING on the suit since a STD cloak is enough to go on a rampage. If not this then lower duration/recharge. 2. If I shoot someone cloaked, THE CLOAK IS GONE. A 5 sec delay starts and after that the equipment slowly recharges. 3. Lower Shotgun damage to Chromosome build stats (33-35-37?), it's TOO EASY to kill other dropsuits thanks to cloaks (heavies are free kills, not even a slight struggle). I don't think I'm as alarmed at the current state of scouts/cloaks as you are, but an incremental nerf may be in order. I think a good first step might be to make it so de-cloaking brings the cloaks power down to at least 30-40% power (or the current charge level if it is less). This makes it so the scout must be visible for a while after de-cloaking and makes the use of higher level cloaks more attractive as they will be more useful at 50% charge than lower level ones. So a variation of #2. -Aramis
Master Smurf Nos Nothi 309	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:01:00 - [10] - Quote Minnie Scouts still have big fitting issues Just putting that out there "Shine bright like a diamond"
Jenova Rhapsodos Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 371	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:05:00 - [11] - Quote I'd love to see some changes/fixes to cloaks right now, but I think the bads are too happy that they can actually make kills with shotguns now. The Scrambler Rifle is dead, long live the Scrambler Rifle!
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4498	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:10:00 - [12] - Quote -Shotgun and cloak is OP and ridiculous. No 2 ways about it. -Fluxes should disable cloak for a short period not random bulletspray. -Keep the animation the same but don't allow fire until fully visible The stamina nature of cloaking is fine. You can see a cloaked scout plain as day as he runs around. The muzzle flashes from most weapons is what makes cloaked enemies hard to hit as you lose them in the strobe. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 434	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:12:00 - [13] - Quote bull crap u guys are just whinning again as always
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 912	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:14:00 - [14] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: -Shotgun and cloak is OP and ridiculous. I didn't want to say this for fear of offending shotty scout vets, but there is some craziness going on. Looking for the scout hangout?
Onesimus Tarsus GamersForChrist 1763	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:17:00 - [15] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: -Shotgun and cloak is OP and ridiculous. No 2 ways about it. -Fluxes should disable cloak for a short period not random bulletspray. -Keep the animation the same but don't allow fire until fully visible The stamina nature of cloaking is fine. You can see a cloaked scout plain as day as he runs around. The muzzle flashes from most weapons is what makes cloaked enemies hard to hit as you lose them in the strobe. Cloak activates, shields go to 0. Cloak de-activates, shields regenerate at normal rate after normal delay. If you don't see me, it's because I'm not where you're looking. I'd rather be unscannable than invisible.
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 4499	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:20:00 - [16] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: -Shotgun and cloak is OP and ridiculous. No 2 ways about it. -Fluxes should disable cloak for a short period not random bulletspray. -Keep the animation the same but don't allow fire until fully visible The stamina nature of cloaking is fine. You can see a cloaked scout plain as day as he runs around. The muzzle flashes from most weapons is what makes cloaked enemies hard to hit as you lose them in the strobe. Cloak activates, shields go to 0. Cloak de-activates, shields regenerate at normal rate after normal delay. LOL No. Let's increase that gap between the Gallente scout and every other scout some more shall we? Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Dingleburt Bangledack Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 142	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:24:00 - [17] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: bull crap u guys are just whinning again as always Dude, let's talk scout to scout here... Shotguns are not a problem, but the SG + Cloak combo is a problem. You need to realise this. 1HKOing someone before we're even uncloaked is simply not cool. But leave the damn SG alone! Change the cloak mechanics.
Jax Saurian GunFall Mobilization 198	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:25:00 - [18] - Quote Here is an idea... make cloaking/decloaking loud(er) "and when they catch you, they will kill you... ...but first they must catch you" motto of the scouts Closed Beta Vet
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 436	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:31:00 - [19] - Quote bull crap u guys are just whinning again as always
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 2744	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:32:00 - [20] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: 1. Change Racial bonus to 5-10% reduction of CPG/PG for cloaks, I can still fit PRO EVERYTHING on the suit since a STD cloak is enough to go on a rampage. If not this then lower duration/recharge. 2. If I shoot someone cloaked, THE CLOAK IS GONE. A 5 sec delay starts and after that the equipment slowly recharges. 3. Lower Shotgun damage to Chromosome build stats (33-35-37?), it's TOO EASY to kill other dropsuits thanks to cloaks (heavies are free kills, not even a slight struggle). Number 1 is good because I'm assuming that this is to minimize bricked, cloak scouts without affecting non-cloaked players. Number 2 is great idea...period. Number 3....not sure if the shotgun needs a nerf. And I hate shotgunners but I don't think that the shotgun needs to be nerfed. The shotgun isn't the problem, it's the cloak and the ability to spam the cloak. weRideNDie2getha since 2010 (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts)
I-Shayz-I I-----I 2798	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:33:00 - [21] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: cloaks and scouts are fine just as they are upgrade your suits base scan percision and range and or try fitting scanner modules tk your suit, ewar fool All this does is allow you to turn around and see the person who kills you, since the vast majority of problem scouts are the ones that you can see, who also happen to have like 500+ ehp and take so long to kill that you don't stand a chance unless the shotgun scout has a poor shot. Links: 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! I make logistics videos!
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 127	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:34:00 - [22] - Quote As a logi I would like to say that before cloaks were introduced I only ever worried about good scouts with a shotgun. I would rather see incremental steps taken IF things were to get adjusted. I think cloaking has changed the battle landscape in a good way and would hate to see it beaten to a non useful item. Remember good players will be good regardless of weapon, suit or fit. GÇ£Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.GÇ¥ GÇò Frank Zappa
Sana Rayya WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 1268	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:36:00 - [23] - Quote Make it so you have to manually decloak by using the fire button before performing any of the other actions that would normally decloak you (i.e. switching weapon/equipment, melee, or throwing a grenade). If you don't press the fire button to decloak manually, you can't do any of those things. Then the cloak is balanced.
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 436	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:36:00 - [24] - Quote Dingleburt Bangledack wrote: Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: bull crap u guys are just whinning again as always Dude, let's talk scout to scout here... Shotguns are not a problem, but the SG + Cloak combo is a problem. You need to realise this. 1HKOing someone before we're even uncloaked is simply not cool. But leave the damn SG alone! Change the cloak mechanics. there is nothing wrong with shotugun cloak combo, nothing wrong with the cloak either, the shotgun was and is horribly broken even before cloaks so all i hear is whinning, nerf nerf nerf invest sp and isk into scanning skills and modules u WILL see them
Revelations 514 Red Star. EoN. 155	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:38:00 - [25] - Quote You guys are friggen crazy. SG is OP huh? You mean a short range weapon excels at short range? At least your pretty little AR has a chance to kill a SG User up close, albeit a small one. How much chance does a SG User have at killing an AR User from range? That's easy, 0%, none. Let's see, cloaks are OP huh? Don't worry, just wait until the racial variants come out and you will see they are not. Or how about, cloaks aren't OP, it's just your ability of perception is UP, buff perception radius. Wait, I got it, see Heavies are supposed to stay guarding objectives and destroy vehicles, Assault is supposed to run in packs and equip scanners. See you just aren't playing your class right. No wait, I was wrong, it was the fact you came into contact with a really good cloak user, you can't judge all cloak users because you probably came up against one of the elite ones. No wait, you used the wrong tactics, you aren't supposed to run TOWARD SG users, but back away from. I understand that since everyone was forced to pick up an AR/SCR to be competitive the last few months you probably just forgot what tactics to use against SG's. Funny how everyone cries about the Scouts now that they don't hug the bottom of the boards. I've been back to playing since 1.8 came out and for some reason don't see this trend of Scouts at the top of leaderboards each match, which for about 7 months before 1.8 was dominated by AR Assault Cals and Logi Assaults. Instead I see a mix of heavies, tank users, scouts, true logis, even Assaults. I ask you this, why all the QQ about Scouts and Cloaks? I have seen other classes use cloaks and no one is complaining about that. They use them the same way after all. You want shields to drop to zero when cloaked? Why, does it save you the one bullet it takes to drop my shields? lol gtfo. As the crippled Scouts heard soo many times, HTFU and Adapt or Die!
RA Drahcir Inner.Hell 332	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:44:00 - [26] - Quote LOL dude says to counter with precision mods. Show me a heavy that can get its precision down to pick up a cloaked scout; show me an assault that can do the same while still having the gear to compete against HP/speed tanked scouts. Enhancing assaults precision and range is just one of the things they need to level out, a base of 50 dB by 10 meters is just ridiculous...it should be viable for an assault to sacrifice precious modules to pick up at least an ADV/undampened cloaked scout. CCP, lets take it one step at a time and try out buffing assaults precision down to a base of 44 dB by 15 meters. I am down for e-warfare if CCP makes it worth while for an assault, not everyone wants to use a cloak with a shotgun.
Cyzad4 Blackfish Corp. 246	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:49:00 - [27] - Quote 1. sure 2. How about link the cloak to suit shields? shields go down cloak goes down? 3. Meh I'd leave it alone, personal experience good SGers drop me bad ones don't. seems about right. Welcome to you're "DOOM"
Yan Darn Science For Death 489	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:49:00 - [28] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: 1. Change Racial bonus to 5-10% reduction of CPG/PG for cloaks, I can still fit PRO EVERYTHING on the suit since a STD cloak is enough to go on a rampage. If not this then lower duration/recharge. 2. If I shoot someone cloaked, THE CLOAK IS GONE. A 5 sec delay starts and after that the equipment slowly recharges. 3. Lower Shotgun damage to Chromosome build stats (33-35-37?), it's TOO EASY to kill other dropsuits thanks to cloaks (heavies are free kills, not even a slight struggle). QQ guy: Shotguns are so OP! I can't believe they had such a massive buff. Rational playerbase: squeak mumble squeak QQ: What's that, they actually got an effective nerf in 1.8? That can't be true, I hardly ever used to get killed by shotguns before! RP: mumble squeak squeak? QQ: No, I don't think people using scouts and shotguns more is part of the reason I'm dying to them more.... Then it's clacks then! That must be it - I never even see these shotgun guys when they kill me, so they must have been clacked! RP: mumble mumble squeak? QQ: Well no, I obviously can't prove they were clacked in all cases...you say scouts were making sneak attacks like this before 1.8, buts that's impossible without clacks. I mean they didn't have dampening or radar bonuses before did they? I mean I don't really know, like any sensible person I used logis or at least assault so even though I've been playing for [6 months/since open beta] I don't actually know anything about scouts... RP: mumble mumble mumble QQ: the switch weapon declack thing was unintended? Wait for it to be fixed then reassess how balanced they are? The scout bonus is specifically so scouts can use them easier, and it's only 'easy' to fit once a boatload of SP is invested in fitting skills, and new players are kinda left without a useful bonus unti all this SP is invested? RP: squeak mumb... QQ: Okay, you can stop your fancy talk now - this has gone on long enough. I don't see how the low cost of armour plates is what contributes to the idea that cloaks are easy to fit. The bottom line is this. I get very upset when killed by people I can't see (on my tac-net) and I think suits should only be balanced by EHP/Damage - this 'EWAR' thing sounds like something for cowards and pussies with no gun game. The gal-logi was an example of a well balanced suit, but then they horribly nerfed it and then made scouts OP. I think the most sensible course of action for someone in my state of distress is to come here and demand changes to things I personally don't like. Now Good Day to you sir... The Ghost of Bravo
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 437	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:50:00 - [29] - Quote if i hav to show you u wont learn it for your self, i play all five roles, heavy,commando, assault, logi, scout and i have no issue with detecting cloaked people at all, adapt fit your suit correctly and get the skills to properly counter the cloak
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 437	Posted - 2014.04.03 17:53:00 - [30] - Quote if i hav to show you u wont learn it for your self, i play all five roles, heavy,commando, assault, logi, scout and i have no issue with detecting cloaked people at all, adapt fit your suit correctly and get the skills to properly counter the cloak

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