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So you can change heavys on the whim of the CPM but not tanks?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Bro-metheus Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 1	Posted - 2014.03.25 11:53:00 - [1] - Quote I have to say great job listening to Completely Pathetic Management (CPM) once again. You adjust heavies without waiting to see what happens in the player bases hands testing vs the more powerful and changed splash weapons and lasers. But you let tanks sit for what will prob be 6-8 months or more before making even the smallest of adjustments? I know CCP has a record of excellence to maintain (sarcasm) but really try slightly loosening your head from your ass, or at the very least wiggle your head around to make some breathing room in there. You play test like old people ****.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 815	Posted - 2014.03.25 11:55:00 - [2] - Quote Maybe the CPM likes tanks, maybe some drive tanks by them self...who knows .
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13684	Posted - 2014.03.25 11:56:00 - [3] - Quote CPM only made the push to get the information public on the grounds we dont want you guys spending sp into something that may get nerfed really soon. CCP Concluded the need for the Nerf in their testing. Get your story straight. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1188	Posted - 2014.03.25 11:57:00 - [4] - Quote the irony, they magically instantly see that heavy EHP is too high but for some reason the 20k+ ehp tanks costing as much as proto suits are ok despite getting warnings from several sides...
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 983	Posted - 2014.03.25 11:58:00 - [5] - Quote Or maybe, tanks have a lot more variables than heavies, and therefore take longer to balance. I'm glad that at least CCP is doing something about heavies, even if tanks are still running amok. IT gives me hope that they will fix them soon. Best PVE idea I've seen. Fixed link.
Bro-metheus Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:01:00 - [6] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CPM only made the push to get the information public on the grounds we dont want you guys spending sp into something that may get nerfed really soon. CCP Concluded the need for the Nerf in their testing. Get your story straight. Its nice to know your oh so capable of winning those oh so hard fights Saber..... I'm surprised you found the time to say anything between all the sucking and swallowing. Must have been like those last 10 seconds of a video when you where wiping your chin and get to mention something to the camera.....
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 815	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:02:00 - [7] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: the irony, they magically instantly see that heavy EHP is too high but for some reason the 20k+ ehp tanks costing as much as proto suits are ok despite getting warnings from several sides... Well the CPM was quite eager for a prenerf of cloaks....as well
Bro-metheus Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 2	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:03:00 - [8] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Or maybe, tanks have a lot more variables than heavies, and therefore take longer to balance. I'm glad that at least CCP is doing something about heavies, even if tanks are still running amok. IT gives me hope that they will fix them soon. BS heavies have a ton of factors affecting gameplay as much as tanks if not more. there are far far far more dps considerations affecting a heavy compared to a tank that is only affected by a small minority of the weapons in play.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13687	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:03:00 - [9] - Quote Bro-metheus wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Or maybe, tanks have a lot more variables than heavies, and therefore take longer to balance. I'm glad that at least CCP is doing something about heavies, even if tanks are still running amok. IT gives me hope that they will fix them soon. BS heavies have a ton of factors affecting gameplay as much as tanks if not more. there are far far far more dps considerations affecting a heavy compared to a tank that is only affected by a small minority of the weapons in play. Okay you balance it. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Django Quik Dust2Dust. 2504	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:09:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Saberwing stated on Twitter yesterday that they're working on a hotfix for tanks too, so you can unbunch your panties. Dedicated sidearm scout - Watch out for that headshot Scout community is the nuts


CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 6283	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:10:00 - [11] - Quote Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. CCP Logibro // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics (a¦á_a¦á)

The-Errorist 572	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:26:00 - [12] - Quote Bro-metheus wrote: I have to say great job listening to Completely Pathetic Management (CPM) once again. You adjust heavies without waiting to see what happens in the player bases hands testing vs the more powerful and changed splash weapons and lasers. But you let tanks sit for what will prob be 6-8 months or more before making even the smallest of adjustments? I know CCP has a record of excellence to maintain (sarcasm) but really try slightly loosening your head from your ass, or at the very least wiggle your head around to make some breathing room in there. You play test like old people ****. In 1.8, they didn't get to talk to the CPM about a lot of the changes they were making.
IMPAIRS YOUR ABILITY WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 268	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:30:00 - [13] - Quote Lol with heavy nerf planned 5 minutes into 1.8 I'll see you in a couple months. Good luck.
Vapor Forseti THE-TITANS 243	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:35:00 - [14] - Quote I can't help but laugh like a maniac every time I see hate towards the CPM. Are you jokers aware that being CPM is a very difficult and tiring task? They can't give you everything you want, or why should they? If you were CPM, would you want to try to constantly appease a large majority of people who ridicule you? Seriously, you should try it. >CCP Saberwing: "NERF EVERYTHING!!!" *THE-TITANS* Director
D34NOS MAZDA WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 415	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:37:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. 1) Bring back the pricing structure that used to be in. 2) Remove militia hardeners 3) Increase the cooldown on hardeners or have it so only one can be fitted at once 4) Give AV grenades back there third grenade (If this has been taken in 1.8) 5) Correct swarm launchers as they are broke (as per Judge Rhadamanthus' video) These will go a long way to getting them balanced. Who agree's
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries 4908	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:40:00 - [16] - Quote D34NOS MAZDA wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. 1) Bring back the pricing structure that used to be in. 2) Remove militia hardeners 3) Increase the cooldown on hardeners or have it so only one can be fitted at once 4) Give AV grenades back there third grenade (If this has been taken in 1.8) 5) Correct swarm launchers as they are broke (as per Judge Rhadamanthus' video) These will go a long way to getting them balanced. Who agree's 2.5 million per HAV? Stop overreacting. The current prices are too low, but putting them back up to the astronomical level they used to be at is no better. I wouldn't say removing Militia Hardeners is necessary, but they shouldn't have equivalent stats to STD ones. Maybe increase their cooldowns to 100 seconds and reduce their Hardening by 5-10%. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 429	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:42:00 - [17] - Quote Bro-metheus wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CPM only made the push to get the information public on the grounds we dont want you guys spending sp into something that may get nerfed really soon. CCP Concluded the need for the Nerf in their testing. Get your story straight. Its nice to know your oh so capable of winning those oh so hard fights Saber..... I'm surprised you found the time to say anything between all the sucking and swallowing. Must have been like those last 10 seconds of a video when you where wiping your chin and get to mention something to the camera..... Now , while I don't agree with IWS ( his view on tanks and tierside for the most part ) the CPM's still deserve respect . It can't be a easy position and for what it's worth ... trying to play the middle ground between the community and the hierarchy .... a lot of changes have come within just a few months . Some good and some not so good but can be fixed . I believe that the way that you have approached this matter and them was way out of line . It's a reflection on the community and could play a part in handling matters of concern . Your an adult .. I'm sure of it and if not I'm not your parent , so the next time you feel this ^^^ way ... maybe you should use your inner voice more often . There are other ways to address someone that you do not agree with because insults really don't get a positive effect . As you can see ... they didn't even address that and the fact that you have gotten a DEV's attention and they themselves didn't put you in your place , shows that they decided to take the high ground on this matter . Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
BAD FURRY SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 660	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:43:00 - [18] - Quote Bro-metheus wrote: I have to say great job listening to Completely Pathetic Management (CPM) once again. You adjust heavies without waiting to see what happens in the player bases hands testing vs the more powerful and changed splash weapons and lasers. But you let tanks sit for what will prob be 6-8 months or more before making even the smallest of adjustments? I know CCP has a record of excellence to maintain (sarcasm) but really try slightly loosening your head from your ass, or at the very least wiggle your head around to make some breathing room in there. You play test like old people ***. maybe tanks are not broken as you think maybe if you asked CCP your self you would know that CCP wants to fix drop suits the most used thing in the game* before they go messing with HAV,s as far as daming the CPM and CCP i think you need to chill out . Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
Denesian Morenti The Neutral Zone 11	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:45:00 - [19] - Quote Just grab a forge gun and have some fun. It works for me!
Secondarius Maximus Bragian Order Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:47:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. great, i bet you will mail to me when this has done so i might consider playing again.

Turtle Hermit Roshi D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 231	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:49:00 - [21] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CPM only made the push to get the information public on the grounds we dont want you guys spending sp into something that may get nerfed really soon. CCP Concluded the need for the Nerf in their testing. Get your story straight. ooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh !!!!! thats right IWS TELL THE SCRUB WHATS UP LOLOLOLOLOLOLO Anything worth fighting for is worth fighting dirty for, welcome to New Eden -ill b there SoonGäó KAMEHAMEHA TANK KILLA
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 629	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:49:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Why must I stay turned... Its making work very difficult and awkward. xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own... So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 429	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:49:00 - [23] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: D34NOS MAZDA wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. 1) Bring back the pricing structure that used to be in. 2) Remove militia hardeners 3) Increase the cooldown on hardeners or have it so only one can be fitted at once 4) Give AV grenades back there third grenade (If this has been taken in 1.8) 5) Correct swarm launchers as they are broke (as per Judge Rhadamanthus' video) These will go a long way to getting them balanced. Who agree's 2.5 million per HAV? Stop overreacting. The current prices are too low, but putting them back up to the astronomical level they used to be at is no better. I wouldn't say removing Militia Hardeners is necessary, but they shouldn't have equivalent stats to STD ones. Maybe increase their cooldowns to 100 seconds and reduce their Hardening by 5-10%. Now what you propose is a good start and could actually be apart of any hot fix . This and the fact that any stacking of hardeners and weapons damage mods resulting in only a ten percent increase could also ward off any stacking which is a problem as well . There needs to be a much bigger penalty in stacking hardeners and damage mods . Same with infantry damage mods , there should be a bigger penalty or else you are faced with the same problems but just not with the exact same results because of the mod changes . Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12472	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:50:00 - [24] - Quote So first I'm not allowed to switch my suits thanks to a dropsuit command only refund, and now, not a couple hours into the patch I can expect my suit to receive a strong nerf. Classic CCP, 100% My decisions matter Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
jerrmy12 kahoalii 674	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:51:00 - [25] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: So first I'm not allowed to switch my suits thanks to a dropsuit command only refund, and now, not a couple hours into the patch I can expect my suit to receive a strong nerf. Classic CCP, 100% My decisions matter I went 31/6 against fa in a shotgun scout vs mass drivers and scrs Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 429	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:53:00 - [26] - Quote Vapor Forseti wrote: I can't help but laugh like a maniac every time I see hate towards the CPM. Are you jokers aware that being CPM is a very difficult and tiring task? They can't give you everything you want, or why should they? If you were CPM, would you want to try to constantly appease a large majority of people who ridicule you? Seriously, you should try it. No they shouldn't . You think things move slowly and are screwed up now ??? We would never get anything done . Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1719	Posted - 2014.03.25 13:03:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Don;t let hardeners and damage mods stack. Make heavy armor repairers active mod again, leave light armor repairer as passive. there, half the complaints gone. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
BAD FURRY SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 662	Posted - 2014.03.25 13:07:00 - [28] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: So first I'm not allowed to switch my suits thanks to a dropsuit command only refund, and now, not a couple hours into the patch I can expect my suit to receive a strong nerf. Classic CCP, 100% My decisions matter yes thats why your decisions is all ways last and mine 1st enjoy. Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12474	Posted - 2014.03.25 13:10:00 - [29] - Quote BAD FURRY wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: So first I'm not allowed to switch my suits thanks to a dropsuit command only refund, and now, not a couple hours into the patch I can expect my suit to receive a strong nerf. Classic CCP, 100% My decisions matter yes thats why your decisions is all ways last and mine 1st enjoy. Hey man, you're my OP radar. If you enjoy something, then I know it's broke as **** Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Reiki Jubo Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 395	Posted - 2014.03.25 13:16:00 - [30] - Quote agree, u guys shouldnt even be discussing a heavy nerf until more playtesting has been done, and the tank fix needs to be first!

SPESHULz The Southern Legion 65	Posted - 2014.03.25 13:21:00 - [31] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. NOOOOOOOOO Ok Logibro you shouldnt have given any warning. runs to tank for 96hours straight of stomping before they can change anything. Blood flows. Death comes. War rages Maths is OP. Those numbers kill you RedLineLove
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1460	Posted - 2014.03.25 13:23:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. SLOW them down! to 19m fix broken swarms increase cooldown time on modules reduced % on damage modules reduced % on regeneration of health increase av grenade damage to atleast be able to kill lav make vehicles appear on tacnet from passive scans modules stacking penalty % increase fixed 5 megabyte patch. Hey CCP get a PS4 client Planetside 2 in June on PS4 Dust Deserters Alliance
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12477	Posted - 2014.03.25 13:25:00 - [33] - Quote 5 minutes of 1.8 and all I see is cloaks I think I'm all set with this patch haha. TTK increase? I am dieing WAY faster than ever before lmfao. smh Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3086	Posted - 2014.03.25 13:26:00 - [34] - Quote lolcpm Anyways how are heavys changed? Intelligence is OP
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 3351	Posted - 2014.03.25 13:38:00 - [35] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: lolcpm Anyways how are heavys changed? They are getting a 20% hp nerf, because CCP's internal testing is apparently incompetent and likes to throw around big numbers without actually doing their jobs.
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 1091	Posted - 2014.03.25 13:39:00 - [36] - Quote im at work and havnt even gotten the chance to spec into my new heavy and i read its already having a nerf on the way. CCP sure was quick with the nerf hammer on this one, nerfing 20% HP? is there a point in having Minmatar heavies after this? i know the numbers aren't set but still, throwing up 20% is quite a high number. YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12480	Posted - 2014.03.25 13:40:00 - [37] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: lolcpm Anyways how are heavys changed? They are getting a 20% hp nerf, because CCP's internal testing is apparently incompetent and likes to throw around big numbers without actually doing their jobs. When CCP says Internal Testing, I'm all but positive they mean Table Tennis. Whoever wins gets to chose the fix, which is proportional to the amount of points it took to win the game. My brain can't handle this game anymore. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 1445	Posted - 2014.03.25 13:41:00 - [38] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CPM only made the push to get the information public on the grounds we dont want you guys spending sp into something that may get nerfed really soon. CCP Concluded the need for the Nerf in their testing. Get your story straight. Don't be shy now ;) Alot of what tanks are today we can thank IWS for.
BAD FURRY SVER True Blood General Tso's Alliance 666	Posted - 2014.03.25 13:44:00 - [39] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: BAD FURRY wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: So first I'm not allowed to switch my suits thanks to a dropsuit command only refund, and now, not a couple hours into the patch I can expect my suit to receive a strong nerf. Classic CCP, 100% My decisions matter yes thats why your decisions is all ways last and mine 1st enjoy. Hey man, you're my OP radar. If you enjoy something, then I know it's broke as **** aww man that's EVERYTHING IN GAME ! Yes i am a Undead Hell Wolf ... nice to meat you!
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3086	Posted - 2014.03.25 13:52:00 - [40] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: lolcpm Anyways how are heavys changed? They are getting a 20% hp nerf, because CCP's internal testing is apparently incompetent and likes to throw around big numbers without actually doing their jobs. Damn I was planning to go back to heavy because i have FG and HMG skilled up I still have to go heavy either way but now im more gimped and dont have that choice because i have weapons i cannot skill out of Thanks lolcpm Intelligence is OP

Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1394	Posted - 2014.03.25 14:00:00 - [41] - Quote D34NOS MAZDA wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. 1) Bring back the pricing structure that used to be in. 2) Remove militia hardeners 3) Increase the cooldown on hardeners or have it so only one can be fitted at once 4) Give AV grenades back there third grenade (If this has been taken in 1.8) 5) Correct swarm launchers as they are broke (as per Judge Rhadamanthus' video) These will go a long way to getting them balanced. Who agree's Edit: Also make it take about 20 secs to recall a tank. Means people cant just jump out and recall when they are being shot at. 1) Current pricing is fine. My fit costs me 560k and I am barely able to make a profit or break even with all these OP rail tanks running about. Militia tanks need to be nerfed to reflect their cost, while tiered efficiency needs to be brought back for every module to reflect SP. 2) Militia shield hardeners should remain. But hardeners should be tiered, with MLT/STD being 25/40 (armor/shield) while PRO is the current 40/60. 3) Cooldowns are fine. It takes level 5 and a complex module to get a 45s cooldown with a 30s uptime. 4) Yes 5) Yes On your edit) No. Just make it last as long as a normal 10s hack. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Fiddlestaxp TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 616	Posted - 2014.03.25 14:03:00 - [42] - Quote A quick response to something that was obviously going to be an issue? +1 Dev Faith.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1869	Posted - 2014.03.25 14:39:00 - [43] - Quote Fiddlestaxp wrote: A quick response to something that was obviously going to be an issue? +1 Dev Faith. The fact that so many very obvious things are wrong in this patch. The fact that tanks were not looked at as part of the fundamental patch contents? -2 Rouge faith. I support SP rollover.
Roy Ventus Axis of Chaos 1515	Posted - 2014.03.25 14:43:00 - [44] - Quote Yes OP, we know you need people to blame but you gotta make sense before you blame them. "There once was a time when there wasn't a Roy Ventus and it wasn't much of a time at all." Roy Ventus
The Robot Devil Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2137	Posted - 2014.03.25 14:43:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. It is good to see all the blue tags, keep it up and you'll make the community more happy and less bitchy. The game is totally different and I like it, you all did well and if you keep putting out fun things then we can overlook the bugs. KEEP COMMUNICATION UP and it will go a long way. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 694	Posted - 2014.03.25 14:50:00 - [46] - Quote D34NOS MAZDA wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. 1) Bring back the pricing structure that used to be in. 2) Remove militia hardeners 3) Increase the cooldown on hardeners or have it so only one can be fitted at once 4) Give AV grenades back there third grenade (If this has been taken in 1.8) 5) Correct swarm launchers as they are broke (as per Judge Rhadamanthus' video) These will go a long way to getting them balanced. Who agree's Edit: Also make it take about 20 secs to recall a tank. Means people cant just jump out and recall when they are being shot at. The pricing can be increased more but definitely not to what it was before. Somewhere between 250-500k for the hull alone. Turret speed needs to be reduced. When a blaster turret can track my scout something is wrong. Fix swarm launcher damage as per the judges video. Someone link for CCP. They need to watch it. Newb
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 694	Posted - 2014.03.25 14:55:00 - [47] - Quote Tech Ohm Eaven wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. SLOW them down! to 19m fix broken swarms increase cooldown time on modules reduced % on damage modules reduced % on regeneration of health increase av grenade damage to atleast be able to kill lav make vehicles appear on tacnet from passive scans modules stacking penalty % increase fixed 5 megabyte patch. Pretty much guaranteed to fix the problem. Agree 100% Newb
The Headless Horseman Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 92	Posted - 2014.03.25 15:00:00 - [48] - Quote D34NOS MAZDA wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. 1) Bring back the pricing structure that used to be in. 2) Remove militia hardeners 3) Increase the cooldown on hardeners or have it so only one can be fitted at once 4) Give AV grenades back there third grenade (If this has been taken in 1.8) 5) Correct swarm launchers as they are broke (as per Judge Rhadamanthus' video) These will go a long way to getting them balanced. Who agree's Edit: Also make it take about 20 secs to recall a tank. Means people cant just jump out and recall when they are being shot at. LMFAO........REALLY? the pros, run hardeners, deplete,recall, repeat. The ONLY way to fix tanks is to nerf recall. Signed, Sealed, Delivered
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 303	Posted - 2014.03.25 15:04:00 - [49] - Quote I JUST SPENT MY SKILL POINTS! WHAT ARE THEY NERFING ON THE HEAVIES AND WHY!! IF IT"S NOT WORKING AS YOUR PROGRAMMED IT THEN IT NEEDS TO BE HOT FIXED... OTHERWISE GIVE IT A FEW DAYS TO SEE IF A COUNTER RISES UP. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 432	Posted - 2014.03.25 15:23:00 - [50] - Quote Harpyja wrote: D34NOS MAZDA wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. 1) Bring back the pricing structure that used to be in. 2) Remove militia hardeners 3) Increase the cooldown on hardeners or have it so only one can be fitted at once 4) Give AV grenades back there third grenade (If this has been taken in 1.8) 5) Correct swarm launchers as they are broke (as per Judge Rhadamanthus' video) These will go a long way to getting them balanced. Who agree's Edit: Also make it take about 20 secs to recall a tank. Means people cant just jump out and recall when they are being shot at. 1) Current pricing is fine. My fit costs me 560k and I am barely able to make a profit or break even with all these OP rail tanks running about. Militia tanks need to be nerfed to reflect their cost, while tiered efficiency needs to be brought back for every module to reflect SP. 2) Militia shield hardeners should remain. But hardeners should be tiered, with MLT/STD being 25/40 (armor/shield) while PRO is the current 40/60. 3) Cooldowns are fine. It takes level 5 and a complex module to get a 45s cooldown with a 30s uptime. 4) Yes 5) Yes On your edit) No. Just make it last as long as a normal 10s hack. Harpyja most of the time I see your opinion about tank fixes I find myself in agreement because it make since . You don't try to break down tanks more than they have been and it seems like you would like to give players incentives to play HAV's but not only that , to skill into them so they can increase their experience and that's the way that it should be instead of using militia straight out of the door and being game busters like it currently is at the moment . You are very astute in your observations . Thank You for being that way . True gets a lot of people behind him for his thoughts and while I don't agree with most that he has to say ... he does make some good points but you are spot on for the most part . Keep up the good work and thanks again . Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You

SgtDoughnut DUST University Ivy League 534	Posted - 2014.03.25 15:25:00 - [51] - Quote I really feel for the CPM, they cant really influence much chage other than suggesting tweaks, CCP has final say on everything, but CPM/CSM always get blamed for every single change in their respective games.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 433	Posted - 2014.03.25 15:30:00 - [52] - Quote Cenex Langly wrote: D34NOS MAZDA wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. 1) Bring back the pricing structure that used to be in. 2) Remove militia hardeners 3) Increase the cooldown on hardeners or have it so only one can be fitted at once 4) Give AV grenades back there third grenade (If this has been taken in 1.8) 5) Correct swarm launchers as they are broke (as per Judge Rhadamanthus' video) These will go a long way to getting them balanced. Who agree's Edit: Also make it take about 20 secs to recall a tank. Means people cant just jump out and recall when they are being shot at. The pricing can be increased more but definitely not to what it was before. Somewhere between 250-500k for the hull alone. Turret speed needs to be reduced. When a blaster turret can track my scout something is wrong. Fix swarm launcher damage as per the judges video. Someone link for CCP. They need to watch it. If the turret can track you it is because they placed SP's into that skill . Check and see how many skill points is required to even be able to have that applied and you will notice that it took a lot of work for them to get that way . Stop trying to break the role down for your personal benefit . If you want to nerf recall then nerf the ability to change fits at the storage depot as well . You people need to stop all the HAV hating . It's getting played out and is getting you no where . Add prospective info for fixes and stop being bias . Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
bamboo x Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 355	Posted - 2014.03.25 15:30:00 - [53] - Quote Bro-metheus, take it easy on the profanity. I did the same thing a week ago and got banned. Yeah I'm not a huge fan of the sentinel eHP nerf but... they will still outperform the other dropsuits in HP. I'm not too afraid of my Amarr Sentinel dropping from 1569 to 1255. I'm concerned about the squishy sentinels, specifically Min and Cal. I laugh at your CR, HMG, SMG, LR, ScR, AR, ScP & IoP
Zirzo Valcyn Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 298	Posted - 2014.03.25 15:30:00 - [54] - Quote Secondarius Maximus wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. great, i bet you will mail to me when this has done so i might consider playing again. no you will just find something new to cry about u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll. forum warrior .189
Dauth Jenkins Ultramarine Corp 289	Posted - 2014.03.25 15:32:00 - [55] - Quote Denesian Morenti wrote: Just grab a forge gun and have some fun. It works for me! Dual wyrkomi (or however they are spelled.... I'm talking about proto) swarms on a commando, and tanks go down like flies. Sees prototompers... Sees blueberries start to snipe... Pulls out commando suit with laser rifle and swarm launcher...
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12490	Posted - 2014.03.25 15:32:00 - [56] - Quote bamboo x wrote: Bro-metheus, take it easy on the profanity. I did the same thing a week ago and got banned. Yeah I'm not a huge fan of the sentinel eHP nerf but... they will still outperform the other dropsuits in HP. I'm not too afraid of my Amarr Sentinel dropping from 1569 to 1255. I'm concerned about the squishy sentinels, specifically Min and Cal. So basically they're just going to be easier to hit, slower logi / assaults with no equipment and a short range weapon. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 161	Posted - 2014.03.25 15:48:00 - [57] - Quote have you watched judge rhadamanthus' video on swarms? start there ccp. "Anybody order chaos?"
GVGMODE WorstPlayersEver 149	Posted - 2014.03.25 15:55:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Un-tiercide the tank modules (nerf mlt-std-adv modules) Nerf the MLT Tank's CPU/PG Increase the efficiency of swarms vs Dropships to match that against other vehicles done. Pilot: (Tanks / Assault Dropships) Skype: GVGMODE
lee corwood Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 650	Posted - 2014.03.25 15:56:00 - [59] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: D34NOS MAZDA wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. 1) Bring back the pricing structure that used to be in. 2) Remove militia hardeners 3) Increase the cooldown on hardeners or have it so only one can be fitted at once 4) Give AV grenades back there third grenade (If this has been taken in 1.8) 5) Correct swarm launchers as they are broke (as per Judge Rhadamanthus' video) These will go a long way to getting them balanced. Who agree's 2.5 million per HAV? Stop overreacting. The current prices are too low, but putting them back up to the astronomical level they used to be at is no better. I wouldn't say removing Militia Hardeners is necessary, but they shouldn't have equivalent stats to STD ones. Maybe increase their cooldowns to 100 seconds and reduce their Hardening by 5-10%. While I certainly don't think tanks should go back to their old price structure, I do feel they are too low at the current price. However, for the militia hardeners, I always thought the point of militia was to be the same as basic so you understand what you're skilling into but at a much higher PG/CPU cost. The point being that you haven't learned how to use the skill yet so it takes more 'brain power' figuratively speaking. Wouldn't it be better to make the militia hardeners cpu/pg intensive so only one fitting is possible at militia and bump the others up in tiers so stacking is less common? Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Come get some badass Band-Aids from this chick
M1tch Rapp Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 0	Posted - 2014.03.25 16:04:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. 1.6 AV

Kaeralli Sturmovos KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 147	Posted - 2014.03.25 16:17:00 - [61] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. limit their ammo, knock down their speed to a fraction of what it is or make it so that they cant jet the split second they take a hit. give us AV guys a mod that boosts our power specifically for AV roles. its sad to try to fight a tank w/ 8 ppl and still cant do anything before their on the other side of the world.
Kazeno Rannaa BIG BAD W0LVES 354	Posted - 2014.03.25 16:25:00 - [62] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CPM only made the push to get the information public on the grounds we dont want you guys spending sp into something that may get nerfed really soon. CCP Concluded the need for the Nerf in their testing. Get your story straight. It becomes very difficult to get any story, let alone a GÇ£straightGÇ¥ on from everyone on the CPM. You guys are like trolls hiding under a bridge until it suits your fancy and your agenda. Why donGÇÖt you guys do us all a favor and step down. Your time has been for naught, and I have yet to observe anything productive from that pinnacle group since its inception. The cloak and dagger routine is old. IWS, you are no spy master and you are a shite representative of this group, and that is if any one person or group of people could represent this group. "Mind is the Only reality, of which all other natures are better or worse reflections.GÇ¥ RWE
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1957	Posted - 2014.03.25 16:35:00 - [63] - Quote I'll just leave this here click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1949	Posted - 2014.03.25 16:59:00 - [64] - Quote Bro-metheus wrote: I have to say great job listening to Completely Pathetic Management (CPM) once again. You adjust heavies without waiting to see what happens in the player bases hands testing vs the more powerful and changed splash weapons and lasers. But you let tanks sit for what will prob be 6-8 months or more before making even the smallest of adjustments? I know CCP has a record of excellence to maintain (sarcasm) but really try slightly loosening your head from your ass, or at the very least wiggle your head around to make some breathing room in there. You play test like old people ****. Because AV wasn't OP for the better part of half a year. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1949	Posted - 2014.03.25 17:00:00 - [65] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Here we go again. Infantry complains that they can't solo tanks with Darkside swarms, so now they need to be nerfed. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12502	Posted - 2014.03.25 17:08:00 - [66] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Here we go again. Infantry complains that they can't solo tanks with Darkside swarms, so now they need to be nerfed. Spkr learns his crutch is getting adjusted, blames it on infantry. Ahhh, 1.8 isn't so different after all Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
wripple WarRavens League of Infamy 136	Posted - 2014.03.25 17:51:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. -increased cost -hardeners decreasing passive repair/regen rate -large turrets don't fire while in your red zone -damage difference between proto and militia damage mods -shooting the treads counts as a critical hit like the rear -increased cost -must unlock your doors by hacking halfway befor you can get in (too many cowards instantly hopping in their tanks and cars the second they're shot) -max of 2 HAVs, 3 LAVs, 2 dropships and 2 ADSs on the field at any time by one team (blue team can call 6 LAVs while reds can call 6 HAVs, I can't call a vehicle for attack or transport one side clearly has the advantage) -lower damage from rails (vehicles get less HP yet rails do more DPS from 1.6, hardly fair for blaster users) -swarms force any inactive mods into 3 second cool down -did I mention lower cost? I can either spend sp and get a single prototype medium frame, or ignore the skill tree altogether and get a prefit tank for less ISK and still pull a higher K/D and profit margin These are just a few suggestions. Either way, tanks are too profitable, take too much effort to be killed by infantry and have an obnoxiously high quota limit. I cannot tell you how many matches I've spawned in 1 minute late and there will already be a particle cannon camping our redline RDVs
wripple WarRavens League of Infamy 136	Posted - 2014.03.25 17:55:00 - [68] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Here we go again. Infantry complains that they can't solo tanks with Darkside swarms, so now they need to be nerfed. People guilty of tank spam and tank bush themselves don't have an oppinion on this thread. When was the last time you died to swarms by the way?
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 434	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:17:00 - [69] - Quote GVGMODE wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Un-tiercide the tank modules (nerf mlt-std-adv modules) Nerf the MLT Tank's CPU/PG Increase the efficiency of swarms vs Dropships to match that against other vehicles done. Whether you want to see it or not , it was tiercide ( as another pointed out so easily ) done wrong that has the tanks in the state that they are in right now . Each level should out perform the other , not all performing the same . Tierciding is going to kill this game along with those ( cpm's ) who want it . CCP knew what it was doing before it started to let everyone in it's ears confusing the outcome . I wouldn't want Militia tanks nerfed in the least , all that needs to be done is change the performance to how it was pre 1.7 where the modular difference was far more noticeable and militia was not on the same par with standard , advanced and proto like it is now but with time differences . That time difference does nothing in the way of differentiating the performance between militia to prototype . Increase the swarmer range so more salvo's can come into play and everything will work it's self out , maybe a ten percent damage increase to start and giving back that extra A.V.grenade . Today I haven't seen so many FG's in a long time and as a vehicle user I should be worried but I like it because it shows a effort on the part of the community as a whole . It's not hard to fix the " tank problem " as long as it's done right . The foundation is already in place now it's all about the follow threw . Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 1096	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:19:00 - [70] - Quote wripple wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Here we go again. Infantry complains that they can't solo tanks with Darkside swarms, so now they need to be nerfed. People guilty of tank spam and tank bush themselves don't have an oppinion on this thread. When was the last time you died to swarms by the way? when was the last time we've seen someone get killed by a swarm? YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 434	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:24:00 - [71] - Quote wripple wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Here we go again. Infantry complains that they can't solo tanks with Darkside swarms, so now they need to be nerfed. People guilty of tank spam and tank bush themselves don't have an oppinion on this thread. When was the last time you died to swarms by the way? If they are using dark sides ( I used some today ) without maxing and having some proficiency then they are doing it wrong . It's not just about using damage mods and you need more than one person . The way it's suppose to be . Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui The Containment Unit 434	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:26:00 - [72] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: wripple wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Here we go again. Infantry complains that they can't solo tanks with Darkside swarms, so now they need to be nerfed. People guilty of tank spam and tank bush themselves don't have an oppinion on this thread. When was the last time you died to swarms by the way? when was the last time we've seen someone get killed by a swarm? I did it today with a dark side . By myself . Leave all negative comments about tanks in the bin marked " TRASH " and we'll get to it as soon as possible . Thank You
Aderek HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 70	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:33:00 - [73] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: When was the last time you died to swarms by the way? when was the last time we've seen someone get killed by a swarm? Its a very good question. I was tested my gunlogi tank vs swarms and ... like a video on youtube by Jade? One standard hardener on shield. Red dot shut to my tank (adv missile) from about 20 meters and my shield lost.... 50 hp. Its a joke, so, i all day play in gunlogi tanks. When i turn on 3 hardeners on shield, i can dont move and only fire do red dots... So, i like this shield and no affected by missile, but is CRAZY! FIVE Missile and only 50 hp down? Good day ;)
Rusty Shallows 1244	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:46:00 - [74] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: im at work and havnt even gotten the chance to spec into my new heavy and i read its already having a nerf on the way. CCP sure was quick with the nerf hammer on this one, nerfing 20% HP? is there a point in having Minmatar heavies after this? i know the numbers aren't set but still, throwing up 20% is quite a high number. That is exactly the question needed to be asked. Bricking Sentinels might become a requirement. If so then the Losematar Fatty is dead on arrival for Uprising 1.8. Such a waste, I was so excited. Here, have some candy and a Like. :-) Forums > Game
JIMvc2 UNREAL WARRIORS 54	Posted - 2014.03.25 18:56:00 - [75] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. When tanks get fixed = thank you. I would like the swarm lunchers to get a buff, not even my proto luncher can take out a tank. What about the plasma cannon ? There should be a delay when using 2 shield mods in a tank at the same time. It should also apply to (Armor Hardeners) If you run proto gear, prepare to suffer the consequences. You've been warned.
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3678	Posted - 2014.03.25 19:00:00 - [76] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Bro-metheus wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Or maybe, tanks have a lot more variables than heavies, and therefore take longer to balance. I'm glad that at least CCP is doing something about heavies, even if tanks are still running amok. IT gives me hope that they will fix them soon. BS heavies have a ton of factors affecting gameplay as much as tanks if not more. there are far far far more dps considerations affecting a heavy compared to a tank that is only affected by a small minority of the weapons in play. Okay you balance it. Allow only one active module of each kind on any vehicle fit. Nerf armour repair modules. Lengthen vehicle recall. Buff swarms and PlaCs. Then give me your title so I can do a better job. No.
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 689	Posted - 2014.03.25 19:01:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Just webifiers would be nice you know... wouldn't have to change anything about the tanks themselves, just where they are effective. Webifiers would make the tanks effective further away from installations, and more vulnerable inside, thus reducing the area that a tank can hide within on the field. Combine that with my Orange Line idea and you have something decent to work with. If you can read this, it means you are reading. Unless you are skimming
Ld Collins Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 123	Posted - 2014.03.25 20:26:00 - [78] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Tanks are fine standard tanks at the least. The problem is that militia tanks are too powerful. When going from 1.6 to 1.7 the buff to tanks were the ability to remove turrets. Militia tanks should not be allowed this buff. If militia tanks were forced to use turrets just like the lp and aur tanks they would be at a greater disadvantage. At least for those who dont have high lvl tanking skills. To top things off double damage mods and hardeners need to be stopped.
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone 994	Posted - 2014.03.25 20:50:00 - [79] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. My suggestions. Best PVE idea I've seen. Fixed link.
GeneralButtNaked Amarr Templars 841	Posted - 2014.03.25 20:54:00 - [80] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Bro-metheus wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Or maybe, tanks have a lot more variables than heavies, and therefore take longer to balance. I'm glad that at least CCP is doing something about heavies, even if tanks are still running amok. IT gives me hope that they will fix them soon. BS heavies have a ton of factors affecting gameplay as much as tanks if not more. there are far far far more dps considerations affecting a heavy compared to a tank that is only affected by a small minority of the weapons in play. Okay you balance it. Here is an idea, how about CCP actually develops this game to be balanced, instead of getting players to try and do it for them and then ignoring them? Real AV doesn't stop until all the tanks are dead.

Darken-Soul BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives 1617	Posted - 2014.03.25 20:58:00 - [81] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Why must I stay turned... Its making work very difficult and awkward. Are you that truck driver that keeps circling my block? Who wants some?
Zack3000 Smith SilenT AngelS 44	Posted - 2014.03.25 21:03:00 - [82] - Quote D34NOS MAZDA wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. 1) Bring back the pricing structure that used to be in. 2) Remove militia hardeners 3) Increase the cooldown on hardeners or have it so only one can be fitted at once 4) Give AV grenades back there third grenade (If this has been taken in 1.8) 5) Correct swarm launchers as they are broke (as per Judge Rhadamanthus' video) These will go a long way to getting them balanced. Who agree's Edit: Also make it take about 20 secs to recall a tank. Means people cant just jump out and recall when they are being shot at. Yes this will fix it. Pay da Man
bigolenuts Dirt Nap Squad. 421	Posted - 2014.03.26 06:14:00 - [83] - Quote Denesian Morenti wrote: Just grab a forge gun and have some fun. It works for me! Have you used a fore gun today? I know you are but what am i?

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 2822	Posted - 2014.03.26 06:47:00 - [84] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: the irony, they magically instantly see that heavy EHP is too high but for some reason the 20k+ ehp tanks costing as much as proto suits are ok despite getting warnings from several sides... I'll echo what IWS said earlier - we got a heads up that this was going to cause people to spend SP in to something that is going to get changed soon after. We're looking to run a hotfix (hopefully this or next week) to address a bunch of these things. Among additional changes we'd be looking at Vehicle / AV balanced and helping alleviate the issues around red line Rails. CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 356	Posted - 2014.03.26 07:23:00 - [85] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Cenex Langly wrote: D34NOS MAZDA wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. 1) Bring back the pricing structure that used to be in. 2) Remove militia hardeners 3) Increase the cooldown on hardeners or have it so only one can be fitted at once 4) Give AV grenades back there third grenade (If this has been taken in 1.8) 5) Correct swarm launchers as they are broke (as per Judge Rhadamanthus' video) These will go a long way to getting them balanced. Who agree's Edit: Also make it take about 20 secs to recall a tank. Means people cant just jump out and recall when they are being shot at. The pricing can be increased more but definitely not to what it was before. Somewhere between 250-500k for the hull alone. Turret speed needs to be reduced. When a blaster turret can track my scout something is wrong. Fix swarm launcher damage as per the judges video. Someone link for CCP. They need to watch it. If the turret can track you it is because they placed SP's into that skill . Check and see how many skill points is required to even be able to have that applied and you will notice that it took a lot of work for them to get that way . Stop trying to break the role down for your personal benefit . If you want to nerf recall then nerf the ability to change fits at the storage depot as well . You people need to stop all the HAV hating . It's getting played out and is getting you no where . Add prospective info for fixes and stop being bias . What you say makes little sense and just shows the typical tanker double standard. If I want to "recall" my drop suit I have to find a friendly supply depot, when they can be under attack, hacked or destroyed by ranks, yet you want to be able to recall your tank at will, without having to access anything, and when the suggestion that you should be required to just spend a few more seconds doing it to prevent the abuse of this mechanism you respond by saying the ability to recall a suit should be taken away completely. Every argument I have seen you make regarding tanks applies this same double standard. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 356	Posted - 2014.03.26 07:27:00 - [86] - Quote I appreciate the feedback SW. We should all have figured out by now that balancing things is not as easy as it seems, and when you add the human element it is very unpredictable, but fix the damn tanks. Because, that's why.
deezy dabest CLONES AGAINST HUMANITY 266	Posted - 2014.03.26 07:46:00 - [87] - Quote Bro-metheus wrote: I have to say great job listening to Completely Pathetic Management (CPM) once again. You adjust heavies without waiting to see what happens in the player bases hands testing vs the more powerful and changed splash weapons and lasers. But you let tanks sit for what will prob be 6-8 months or more before making even the smallest of adjustments? I know CCP has a record of excellence to maintain (sarcasm) but really try slightly loosening your head from your ass, or at the very least wiggle your head around to make some breathing room in there. You play test like old people ****. I laughed until I cried and cried until i ran out of tissue when I read this. On a serious note you also summed up quite well the thinking of quite a few people.
Pisidon Gmen Ivory Vanguard 26	Posted - 2014.03.26 07:56:00 - [88] - Quote Django Quik wrote: CCP Saberwing stated on Twitter yesterday that they're working on a hotfix for tanks too, so you can unbunch your panties. ITS ABOUT 6 MOUNTS TOO LATE TANKS / AV HAS NEEDED A FIX FROM THE TIME 1.7 WAS DROPED AND DO WE GET A FIX? NO WE GET MORE OF AN AV NURFF WITH LOSS OF A NADE AND DAMAGE MODS DROPED( DAMAGE MODS DID NEED AN ADJ DO TO THE NUMBER OF PLAYERS USING THEM ON LOGISTIC SUITS STACKING 4 AND 5 OF THEM) BUT THAT WAS NOT THE FALT OF THE DAMAGE MOD THAT WAS A FAULT IN THE SUIT/ MOD SETUP THAT LET THEM BE STACKED WITH OUT ENOUGH PENALITY
Shruikan Iceeye 0uter.Heaven 167	Posted - 2014.03.26 08:19:00 - [89] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CPM only made the push to get the information public on the grounds we dont want you guys spending sp into something that may get nerfed really soon. CCP Concluded the need for the Nerf in their testing. Get your story straight. If that's the case then you guys are heroes and I applaud you for it. Thank you for making them tell us about the nerf. Now we can try our best to stop this ridiculousness. Everyone needs to read this Pass The A/1 Sauce
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 1108	Posted - 2014.03.26 08:50:00 - [90] - Quote if CCP doesnt like the heavies, then please get rid of the heavy class and refund me my SP & ISK. our heavy suits havnt even been out for 24hrs and this 20% nerf hammer is already being considered, i've read that scouts are even able to slap on armor plates and have almost as much armor as a heavy. are the minmatar heavies even needed? they have the least EHP and now they will have even less when this nerf comes through. so CCP if you are going to change the heavies to the point where they are downright pathetic and useless, i suggest you get rid of our heavy class, refund all the SP (dropsuit & heavy weapon) and all the ISK spent on buying those suits and weapons. seriously i think that CCP has a monkey as the chief of the nerf department since most of these nerfs dont even makes sense and it seems like this heavy nerf could be the fastest nerf in dust history, i dont think i've seen anything else get nerfed on the first day of its arrival. YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+

Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 271	Posted - 2014.03.26 08:53:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Jack McReady wrote: the irony, they magically instantly see that heavy EHP is too high but for some reason the 20k+ ehp tanks costing as much as proto suits are ok despite getting warnings from several sides... I'll echo what IWS said earlier - we got a heads up that this was going to cause people to spend SP in to something that is going to get changed soon after. We're looking to run a hotfix (hopefully this or next week) to address a bunch of these things. Among additional changes we'd be looking at Vehicle / AV balanced and helping alleviate the issues around red line Rails. If you reduce the heavy ehp, we'll see scout's only on the field... they already counter heavys very well in cqc. They'll wipe the floor with heavy frames (especcially min and caldari) if you reduce ehp on the heavies. Can't you wait a little to see how things go before you nerf everything into the ground again? Heavies have two good counters already, scouts and mass drivers. If you guys don't see that, I'm sorry to say, but then you havn't played the same game as we have! Cheers
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster 750	Posted - 2014.03.26 09:01:00 - [92] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Jack McReady wrote: the irony, they magically instantly see that heavy EHP is too high but for some reason the 20k+ ehp tanks costing as much as proto suits are ok despite getting warnings from several sides... I'll echo what IWS said earlier - we got a heads up that this was going to cause people to spend SP in to something that is going to get changed soon after. We're looking to run a hotfix (hopefully this or next week) to address a bunch of these things. Among additional changes we'd be looking at Vehicle / AV balanced and helping alleviate the issues around red line Rails. You guys got an heads up on heavies but no one noticed any potential future issues with vehicles? TOUGH TITTY, SAID THE KITTY. -Blaine the Mono a¦áGùía¦á
TheWee BabySeamus Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 92	Posted - 2014.03.26 09:27:00 - [93] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Please explain to me the thinking behind the future heavy nerf. I'll wait. Honestly, as someone who has been playing heavy since closed beta I think that the heavies are finally where they should be, or at least in a much better spot than they have been recently. planning to nerf something the day that you release something shows us (the community) one thing..............You have know idea how to properly create and balance your game. There is a saying in the milky way galaxy, not sure if you have heard of it being from that miserable place New Eden. Anyways, the saying is "if it ain't broke don't fix it". With that being said, heavies are fine, concentrate on fixing the rest of your game. I can give you a list of places to start of you are having trouble, here it goes: PVE tank Spam Tank invincibility PVE tank speed av/vehicle balance remaining racial weapons pilot suits PVE remaining racial vehicles new game modes fixing PC expanding PC PVE I could go on but I'm tired. SLEEEEEPPPPPPPPPP P.S. The Mim heavy is ILL NASTY, with the right set up ;) DDB Director & Bitter Vet My Minmatar Heavy eats Medium frames for a snack..............I'm fat :(
Atom Heart Mother Nazionali Senza Filtro 118	Posted - 2014.03.26 09:27:00 - [94] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. A hotfix is needed, BUT FOR AV, NOT TANKS.
Secondarius Maximus Bragian Order Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2014.03.26 10:16:00 - [95] - Quote Zirzo Valcyn wrote: Secondarius Maximus wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. great, i bet you will mail to me when this has done so i might consider playing again. no you will just find something new to cry about actully there is no point to play anything else than tanks now on some maps and this game is not the best one for that anyway so why to play at all.

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 2838	Posted - 2014.03.26 10:19:00 - [96] - Quote TheWee BabySeamus wrote: Please explain to me the thinking behind the future heavy nerf. Just had a mosey around the office. My latest understanding is that we haven't fully committed to nerfing Heavy EHP just yet. We're going to keep an eye on it and see how things pan out. That doesn't mean there will or will not be a nerf! - just that we're going to approach it carefully. CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 307	Posted - 2014.03.26 10:26:00 - [97] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: TheWee BabySeamus wrote: Please explain to me the thinking behind the future heavy nerf. Just had a mosey around the office. My latest understanding is that we haven't fully committed to nerfing Heavy EHP just yet. We're going to keep an eye on it and see how things pan out. That doesn't mean there will or will not be a nerf! - just that we're going to approach it carefully. Thank you, Something to look into is allowing the Flux to disrupt the rep tool. I think most tears steam from this. I been play testing the hell out of the Caldari Heavy and feel it's EHP is on the low side but that passive rep is a silver lining. Waiting to have some free time to post video. Some things tear me the hell out I could make a documentary on how to kill the Caldari heavy. (Now if I could only get some 1 on 1 time with the guy that nerfed the Forge) Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
The Robot Devil Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2157	Posted - 2014.03.26 10:28:00 - [98] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: TheWee BabySeamus wrote: Please explain to me the thinking behind the future heavy nerf. Just had a mosey around the office. My latest understanding is that we haven't fully committed to nerfing Heavy EHP just yet. We're going to keep an eye on it and see how things pan out. That doesn't mean there will or will not be a nerf! - just that we're going to approach it carefully. Thank you, Something to look into is allowing the Flux to disrupt the rep tool. I think most tears steam from this. I been play testing the hell out of the Caldari Heavy and feel it's EHP is on the low side but that passive rep is a silver lining. Waiting to have some free time to post video. Some things tear me the hell out I could make a documentary on how to kill the Caldari heavy. Flux killing the rep tool!!! That is hardcore and I kind of like it. Would it only cause the tool to lose the lock or would it cause it to shut down for a time? Very interesting idea. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Piraten Hovnoret Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 438	Posted - 2014.03.26 10:31:00 - [99] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. AWSOME a dev post about the "tank issue" CCP Logibro use that "nerf hammer from hell" that we al know and fear on those tanks FOTM scrubs. War never changes
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 307	Posted - 2014.03.26 10:32:00 - [100] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Flux killing the rep tool!!! That is hardcore and I kind of like it. Would it only cause the tool to lose the lock or would it cause it to shut down for a time? Very interesting idea. I would not see it as long as the Amarr Weapon overheat but maybe a similar animation for 1.5~2.5 seconds then allow lock on. CCP can tweak the numbers. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!

Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 3366	Posted - 2014.03.26 10:33:00 - [101] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: TheWee BabySeamus wrote: Please explain to me the thinking behind the future heavy nerf. Just had a mosey around the office. My latest understanding is that we haven't fully committed to nerfing Heavy EHP just yet. We're going to keep an eye on it and see how things pan out. That doesn't mean there will or will not be a nerf! - just that we're going to approach it carefully. How in gods name is a 20% stab in the face "approaching it carefully"?
Bro-metheus Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 53	Posted - 2014.03.26 10:41:00 - [102] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: TheWee BabySeamus wrote: Please explain to me the thinking behind the future heavy nerf. Just had a mosey around the office. My latest understanding is that we haven't fully committed to nerfing Heavy EHP just yet. We're going to keep an eye on it and see how things pan out. That doesn't mean there will or will not be a nerf! - just that we're going to approach it carefully. thank you, let the playtesting run its course then adjust with feedback and input. Plus you guys have issues with a good portion of the weapons and suits right now that are handicapped by bugs/wrong settings and bonuses. Fix that then let the players test the build when its actually where it should be and working as you intended it to, then we can test under the proper conditions and in PC in a meaningful way.
The Robot Devil Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 2161	Posted - 2014.03.26 10:44:00 - [103] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Flux killing the rep tool!!! That is hardcore and I kind of like it. Would it only cause the tool to lose the lock or would it cause it to shut down for a time? Very interesting idea. I would not see it as long as the Amarr Weapon overheat but maybe a similar animation for 1.5~2.5 seconds then allow lock on. CCP can tweak the numbers. I like it more than I don't. I am a full time proto rep logi and it sounds fun. "One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production." Raoul Duke
Bro-metheus Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 53	Posted - 2014.03.26 10:53:00 - [104] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: NextDark Knight wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Flux killing the rep tool!!! That is hardcore and I kind of like it. Would it only cause the tool to lose the lock or would it cause it to shut down for a time? Very interesting idea. I would not see it as long as the Amarr Weapon overheat but maybe a similar animation for 1.5~2.5 seconds then allow lock on. CCP can tweak the numbers. I like it more than I don't. I am a full time proto rep logi and it sounds fun. yeah I think it is a good idea. another way to go with it is that if the suit being healed is currently taking damage or has taken dmg in the last so many seconds the rep tool provides a % less heal rate. This would make sense because the nanites would be getting knocked/bucked off the suit do to the incoming fire and its kenetic energy hitting the suit being healed and vibrating it, damaging the nanites or knocking them off as they work to fix the suit. How much a % less and how long the effect lasts would have to be balanced. Same could be done for repair nanohives. if your taking damage you get less overall heal.
CLONE ALPHA 001 Ultramarine Corp 15	Posted - 2014.03.26 11:06:00 - [105] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: the irony, they magically instantly see that heavy EHP is too high but for some reason the 20k+ ehp tanks costing as much as proto suits are ok despite getting warnings from several sides... 20K EHP LOL dude do you know how to math
Toby Flenderson research lab 407	Posted - 2014.03.26 11:24:00 - [106] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: TheWee BabySeamus wrote: Please explain to me the thinking behind the future heavy nerf. Just had a mosey around the office. My latest understanding is that we haven't fully committed to nerfing Heavy EHP just yet. We're going to keep an eye on it and see how things pan out. That doesn't mean there will or will not be a nerf! - just that we're going to approach it carefully. Thank you, Something to look into is allowing the Flux to disrupt the rep tool. (Drop lockon or feedback from the flux like amarr overheat animation) I think most tears steam from this.. I been play testing the hell out of the Caldari Heavy and feel it's EHP is on the low side but that passive rep is a silver lining. Waiting to have some free time to post video. Some things stomp the hell out of me, I could make a documentary on how to kill the Caldari heavy. (Now if I could only get some 1 on 1 time with the guy that nerfed the Forge) +1 for the flux grenade suggestion. This would really be interesting to see.
jerrmy12 kahoalii 691	Posted - 2014.03.26 11:28:00 - [107] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: TheWee BabySeamus wrote: Please explain to me the thinking behind the future heavy nerf. Just had a mosey around the office. My latest understanding is that we haven't fully committed to nerfing Heavy EHP just yet. We're going to keep an eye on it and see how things pan out. That doesn't mean there will or will not be a nerf! - just that we're going to approach it carefully. If you nerf hea y hp, only nerf armor, my cal sent dies fast enough already... Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 448	Posted - 2014.03.26 11:28:00 - [108] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: TheWee BabySeamus wrote: Please explain to me the thinking behind the future heavy nerf. Just had a mosey around the office. My latest understanding is that we haven't fully committed to nerfing Heavy EHP just yet. We're going to keep an eye on it and see how things pan out. That doesn't mean there will or will not be a nerf! - just that we're going to approach it carefully. /boggle You don't approach ANYTHING carefully, every patch is a hot mess of disasters. After 1.7 how can anyone have anything but zero faith in your vehicle "hot-fix" and heavy users should keep their sphincters to the walls in fear of your "care". Taking a long time to act then doing the wrong thing anyway =/= careful.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1953	Posted - 2014.03.26 11:28:00 - [109] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Here we go again. Infantry complains that they can't solo tanks with Darkside swarms, so now they need to be nerfed. Spkr learns his crutch is getting adjusted, blames it on infantry. Ahhh, 1.8 isn't so different after all Never knew preferring a different playstyle is a crutch. Go back to trying to destroying a tank with a small rail on an Incubus. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
jerrmy12 kahoalii 692	Posted - 2014.03.26 11:30:00 - [110] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Here we go again. Infantry complains that they can't solo tanks with Darkside swarms, so now they need to be nerfed. Spkr learns his crutch is getting adjusted, blames it on infantry. Ahhh, 1.8 isn't so different after all Never knew preferring a different playstyle is a crutch. Go back to trying to destroying a tank with a small rail on an Incubus. Yea tanks are op and a big crutch you continue to use for the free kills... Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears

Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1212	Posted - 2014.03.26 11:32:00 - [111] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: TheWee BabySeamus wrote: Please explain to me the thinking behind the future heavy nerf. Just had a mosey around the office. My latest understanding is that we haven't fully committed to nerfing Heavy EHP just yet. We're going to keep an eye on it and see how things pan out. That doesn't mean there will or will not be a nerf! - just that we're going to approach it carefully. I still dont see the need of a 20% hp nerf. if you do that, they will be weaker than before and we all know how often heavies were used. and if you think heavies have too much hp, how do you feel about brick tanked scouts able to run around the field at high speed? they made assault suits obsolete. maybe you should keep an eye on that too.
RKKR The Southern Legion League of Infamy 843	Posted - 2014.03.26 11:52:00 - [112] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: I'll echo what IWS said earlier - we got a heads up that this was going to cause people to spend SP in to something that is going to get changed soon after. Then why was THIS POST never answered?
Captain Africa Clone1 GRIM MARCH D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 161	Posted - 2014.03.26 11:56:00 - [113] - Quote You know CCP this heavy HP thing is like a pile of dog **** on the grass... staring you in the face ...you had to go and step right in it lol Leave the heavies alone ...enough is enough. Join the March ,see the universe , meet interesting people and kill them G£¬ http://grimmarch.wix.com/grim-march-ver1
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 1113	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:04:00 - [114] - Quote from one of my posts. CCP: heavy doing what it does best at killing infantry?? NERF IT!!! CCP: AV killing tanks?? NERF IT!!!! CCP: and our employee of the month goes to our monkey thats in charge of the nerf department YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 2847	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:04:00 - [115] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: I still dont see the need of a 20% hp nerf. if you do that, they will be weaker than before and we all know how often heavies were used. This isn't guaranteed to be happening yet (as I alluded to elsewhere). We're going to keep an eye on it first. CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian


CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 2847	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:06:00 - [116] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: How in gods name is a 20% stab in the face "approaching it carefully"? Seems like you didn't understand what I said. The 20% isn't set in stone, nor is it guaranteed to be happening at all yet. EHP is something we'll be monitoring. CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens League of Infamy 794	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:07:00 - [117] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Jack McReady wrote: I still dont see the need of a 20% hp nerf. if you do that, they will be weaker than before and we all know how often heavies were used. This isn't guaranteed to be happening yet (as I alluded to elsewhere). We're going to keep an eye on it first. Was the rotational speed of the large railgun hit? It is moving so much slower today then it was over the weekend for me. Intentional, unintentional, or "go home Joe; you're drunk"? "People that quote themselves in signatures confuse me." -Joseph Ridgeson
Captain Africa Clone1 GRIM MARCH D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 161	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:17:00 - [118] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: How in gods name is a 20% stab in the face "approaching it carefully"? Seems like you didn't understand what I said. The 20% isn't set in stone, nor is it guaranteed to be happening at all yet. EHP is something we'll be monitoring. On a different note Sabrewing ...what is the likely hood of making basic suits more useful by making them a bit cheaper than the specialized one ? Join the March ,see the universe , meet interesting people and kill them G£¬ http://grimmarch.wix.com/grim-march-ver1
Raxsus Lannister Bullet Cluster 32	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:18:00 - [119] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: TheWee BabySeamus wrote: Please explain to me the thinking behind the future heavy nerf. Just had a mosey around the office. My latest understanding is that we haven't fully committed to nerfing Heavy EHP just yet. We're going to keep an eye on it and see how things pan out. That doesn't mean there will or will not be a nerf! - just that we're going to approach it carefully. Thank you for sharing this Saberwing. and thank you CCP for taking your time to see how this plays out.
SALH Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:39:00 - [120] - Quote jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: So first I'm not allowed to switch my suits thanks to a dropsuit command only refund, and now, not a couple hours into the patch I can expect my suit to receive a strong nerf. Classic CCP, 100% My decisions matter I went 31/6 against fa in a shotgun scout vs mass drivers and scrs So what. The mass driver still suck, and you will be lucky to hit anything with it.

Aikuchi Tomaru Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2116	Posted - 2014.03.26 12:53:00 - [121] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: TheWee BabySeamus wrote: Please explain to me the thinking behind the future heavy nerf. Just had a mosey around the office. My latest understanding is that we haven't fully committed to nerfing Heavy EHP just yet. We're going to keep an eye on it and see how things pan out. That doesn't mean there will or will not be a nerf! - just that we're going to approach it carefully. How in gods name is a 20% stab in the face "approaching it carefully"? Jumping to conclusions like this is the reason CCP is very careful with the information they make public. Sign up for Caldari FW and defeat the evil Gallente Overlords!
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 3369	Posted - 2014.03.26 13:01:00 - [122] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: How in gods name is a 20% stab in the face "approaching it carefully"? Seems like you didn't understand what I said. The 20% isn't set in stone, nor is it guaranteed to be happening at all yet. EHP is something we'll be monitoring. No, I do understand exactly what you were saying. I'm aware its not set in stone. It's the fact that big numbers are being talked about at all that's worrying. At some point in time, someone said "We should nerf this by about 20%" and it became a general consensus in your office that was a decent number to nerf by. The fact that it was echo'd on the forum as probably incoming very soon is of course troubling, but what is disturbing me is that this is your office's balance mentality in the first place and that such a big number can carry such a popular opinion. By all means, scale down the nerf and implement it bit-by-bit if you must to test the waters. But if people in your office are really talking such big numbers after internal test sessioning, you're going to have to forgive me if I don't feel an overwhelming sense of dread for the future of Dust. CCP already has a reputation on this game for swinging balance from one extreme to the other with every build, and it's entirely because of that mentality. It's good if you show some restraint on this issue. It is NOT good for big numbers to be thrown around casually like that, ever. Look at the scrambler pistol for example. You cut its dps in half this build. IN HALF. That's a 50% dps nerf straight outa nowhere that nobody even asked for. That's irresponsible balancing.
TuFar Gon Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 66	Posted - 2014.03.26 13:05:00 - [123] - Quote Thetes ur answer peeps... But im sure another QQ post will come about soon tm. JUST PLAY THE DAMN GAME!!
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 287	Posted - 2014.03.26 13:16:00 - [124] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Seems like you didn't understand what I said. The 20% isn't set in stone, nor is it guaranteed to be happening at all yet. EHP is something we'll be monitoring. Do I understand what you are saying? It sounds like you are saying 'we have no idea what we are doing' <- is this a correct assessment?
jerrmy12 kahoalii 699	Posted - 2014.03.26 14:36:00 - [125] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: How in gods name is a 20% stab in the face "approaching it carefully"? Seems like you didn't understand what I said. The 20% isn't set in stone, nor is it guaranteed to be happening at all yet. EHP is something we'll be monitoring. Be aure to leave the caldari heavy's shueld ehp un nerfed, its not that strong... Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Justicar Karnellia Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 761	Posted - 2014.03.26 14:45:00 - [126] - Quote I think this is mainly a problem of shouting "we're going to reduce it by 20%" and then going "but maybe not 20%"... I think it might have been wiser to say "testing has shown EHP is potentially slightly above what we find ideal, so we will be monitoring this carefully"... I also think this is frankly bizarre seeing as vehicles have been crying out for some balancing since 1.7 and there were no hotfixes talked about then. I just find the development process so opaque. Why this hotfix first? why now? Why is it suddenly a problem? Why can't it wait a month until you have more data instead of the day after patch is released? It would also be nice to see some stats... like you once presented before the flaylock nerf (even though they were only usage statistics)...
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 162	Posted - 2014.03.26 14:48:00 - [127] - Quote ....If they are doing a 20% nerf on Heavies you might as well hang up the class, refund everyone's sp spent into it and buy back all the heavy suits, hell just remove Heavy from the skill tree, that will solve the problem altogether. Oh wait...did I hear tanks, did I hear that forge guns and RE's are basically the only way Infintry can actually defend themselves since you made AV gernades useless? Yes...yes.....I hear the screams of a thousand AVer's crying as you smash the nerf bat over their head again, should we make them cry more by giving the forge gun a chance to shoot blanks....oh wait you already did. Honestly, this 20% nerf is going to just destroy the infintry vs vehicle equation a ton, not only that but you just gave cloaks to scouts, doesn't take a genius to figure out, that the scouts are going to put the barell of the shotgun against the back of a heavies head and pull the trigger. So what exactly are you....CCP trying to accomplish by even mentioning a nerf, at most I would consider a 5% nerf to total Ehp for heavies and even that I would consider near extreme in measure. I'm already on the fence about taking a month or more off from Dust because of how horrid the balance has become against vehicles, yeah getting vehicle damage points is least an improvement, but it's not enough by a long shot.
jerrmy12 kahoalii 699	Posted - 2014.03.26 14:48:00 - [128] - Quote Justicar Karnellia wrote: I think this is mainly a problem of shouting "we're going to reduce it by 20%" and then going "but maybe not 20%"... I think it might have been wiser to say "testing has shown EHP is potentially slightly above what we find ideal, so we will be monitoring this carefully"... I also think this is frankly bizarre seeing as vehicles have been crying out for some balancing since 1.7 and there were no hotfixes talked about then. I just find the development process so opaque. Why this hotfix first? why now? Why is it suddenly a problem? Why can't it wait a month until you have more data instead of the day after patch is released? It would also be nice to see some stats... like you once presented before the flaylock nerf (even though they were only usage statistics)... Hotfix maybe next week for vehicle's Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Disturbingly Bored Forum Warfare 2070	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:26:00 - [129] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Seems like you didn't understand what I said. The 20% isn't set in stone, nor is it guaranteed to be happening at all yet. EHP is something we'll be monitoring. Saberwing, I understand there's quite a bit of shooting the messenger going on. Please pardon the flaming. We forum goers are worried, however, that when you CCP guys mention a change "might" happen, the exact thing that you said almost always ends up in the game, no matter how much discussion we have on the subject. We really hope that isn't the case here. Because otherwise it totally negates all the changes you made to Sentinel Bonuses, and it'd better to just give us our weird mostly useless bonuses back than nerf HP this hard. I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - *draconian forum overlord* CCP Logibro]
jerrmy12 kahoalii 699	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:30:00 - [130] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: CCP Saberwing wrote: Seems like you didn't understand what I said. The 20% isn't set in stone, nor is it guaranteed to be happening at all yet. EHP is something we'll be monitoring. Saberwing, I understand there's quite a bit of shooting the messenger going on. Please pardon the flaming. We forum goers are worried, however, that when you CCP guys mention a change "might" happen, the exact thing that you said almost always ends up in the game, no matter how much discussion we have on the subject. We really hope that isn't the case here. Because otherwise it totally negates all the changes you made to Sentinel Bonuses, and it'd better to just give us our weird mostly useless bonuses back than nerf HP this hard. The hmg just needs to be nerfed, thats where all the xomplaining comes from Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears

Zimander 32	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:43:00 - [131] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CPM only made the push to get the information public on the grounds we dont want you guys spending sp into something that may get nerfed really soon. CCP Concluded the need for the Nerf in their testing. Get your story straight. Bit to late for that many players already spec to all kind heavys
ReGnYuM Dirt Nap Squad. 2573	Posted - 2014.03.26 15:57:00 - [132] - Quote Its threads like this that you really get to see the pent up frustration, animosity, and overall anger of the Dust 514 Community. Hey guys , at least CCP did not try to revamp/ improve aiming. Then we would have a total Uprising 2.0 on our hands. My SP GAP carries me.
jerrmy12 kahoalii 702	Posted - 2014.03.26 16:01:00 - [133] - Quote Zimander wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CPM only made the push to get the information public on the grounds we dont want you guys spending sp into something that may get nerfed really soon. CCP Concluded the need for the Nerf in their testing. Get your story straight. Bit to late for that many players already spec to all kind heavys I spcced in non fotm material Cal heqvy and cal scout, cant really brick tank so its good Closed beta vet Tears, sweet delicious tears
Chibi Andy Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 1116	Posted - 2014.03.26 16:03:00 - [134] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: Its threads like this that you really get to see the pent up frustration, animosity, and overall anger of the Dust 514 Community. Hey guys , at least CCP did not try to revamp/ improve aiming. Then we would have a total Uprising 2.0 on our hands. who knows, maybe even those fanatical players might decide to do something even more drastic than just raging on the forums, they might even decide to bomb the place YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED!!! sç+a¦át¢èa¦á)sç+ (pâÄa¦át¢èa¦á)pâÄs+íGö+GöüGö+
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 359	Posted - 2014.03.26 16:06:00 - [135] - Quote I do wonder what keeps people playing this game at this point. You had a solid idea with DUST. I just feel ever since the beta ended, the game has been really lacking a sense of structured planning. CCP if you want to garner player support you have to engage with the community and discuss things in a moderated way. Throwing around random "20%" numbers and then saying oh well we might not..... that does not help garner support. Apart from that, this build came riddled with bugs and errors. Granted you expect that in any game on any patch day but no where near the same extent that bugs have prevailed in 1.8. Also what does rattle peoples cages is the fact that you seem unable to balance really easy things in this game, such as vehicles vs infantry in the form of AV. You could come out and say - "Ok players, we want vehicles to be quite easy to kill but they will be cheap thus leading to gameplay similar to what you might expect in a battlefield title". Or "Ok players this is the EVE universe so some vehicles will be tanked to hell and back and be hard to kill, but for this they will cost an absolute crap ton of isk and we will actually have mechanics that will always mean tanks / vehicles cannot constantly stomp all match long". Ahh I could go on but I feel this has all been said time and time again without anything changing.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 2091	Posted - 2014.03.26 16:09:00 - [136] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: I do wonder what keeps people playing this game at this point. You had a solid idea with DUST. I just feel ever since the beta ended, the game has been really lacking a sense of structured planning. CCP if you want to garner player support you have to engage with the community and discuss things in a moderated way. Throwing around random "20%" numbers and then saying oh well we might not..... that does not help garner support. Apart from that, this build came riddled with bugs and errors. Granted you expect that in any game on any patch day but no where near the same extent that bugs have prevailed in 1.8. Also what does rattle peoples cages is the fact that you seem unable to balance really easy things in this game, such as vehicles vs infantry in the form of AV. You could come out and say - "Ok players, we want vehicles to be quite easy to kill but they will be cheap thus leading to gameplay similar to what you might expect in a battlefield title". Or "Ok players this is the EVE universe so some vehicles will be tanked to hell and back and be hard to kill, but for this they will cost an absolute crap ton of isk and we will actually have mechanics that will always mean tanks / vehicles cannot constantly stomp all match long". Ahh I could go on but I feel this has all been said time and time again without anything changing. You bring up some good points, and I agree. I would say though, that there's an even bigger problem really, and that is that there's nothing creative or unique really about Dust. People will play a flawed but interesting game. They will not play a boring but flawless game. I've been saying it for a while, CCP needs to be laser focused on content to build the playerbase, then item number two should be bugfixes. Let the balance issues sort themselves out for a while before making any knee jerk, uninformed reactions.
Heimdallr69 Heaven's Lost Property 1942	Posted - 2014.03.26 16:13:00 - [137] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Just an FYI for everyone who didn't know.. Tanks are harder too balance, you don't want them too weak or too strong. An hmg insta killing you at 60m yeah whatever I can live with that but it taking 3 full clips of six kin to kill a heavy.. Idk maybe the servers had some issues so I won't say their OP.. Yet. Gotta problem with tanks? Go fit an anti tank railgun.. There problem solved.. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Bro-metheus Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 62	Posted - 2014.03.26 16:24:00 - [138] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: I do wonder what keeps people playing this game at this point. You had a solid idea with DUST. I just feel ever since the beta ended, the game has been really lacking a sense of structured planning. CCP if you want to garner player support you have to engage with the community and discuss things in a moderated way. Throwing around random "20%" numbers and then saying oh well we might not..... that does not help garner support. Apart from that, this build came riddled with bugs and errors. Granted you expect that in any game on any patch day but no where near the same extent that bugs have prevailed in 1.8. Also what does rattle peoples cages is the fact that you seem unable to balance really easy things in this game, such as vehicles vs infantry in the form of AV. You could come out and say - "Ok players, we want vehicles to be quite easy to kill but they will be cheap thus leading to gameplay similar to what you might expect in a battlefield title". Or "Ok players this is the EVE universe so some vehicles will be tanked to hell and back and be hard to kill, but for this they will cost an absolute crap ton of isk and we will actually have mechanics that will always mean tanks / vehicles cannot constantly stomp all match long". Ahh I could go on but I feel this has all been said time and time again without anything changing. +1 those are both very good intents when it comes to veh vs av strategies. I think for dusts sake the battlefield strategy is the best way to take it.
Disturbingly Bored Forum Warfare 2073	Posted - 2014.03.26 16:29:00 - [139] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: Just an FYI for everyone who didn't know.. Tanks are harder too balance, you don't want them too weak or too strong. An hmg insta killing you at 60m yeah whatever I can live with that but it taking 3 full clips of six kin to kill a heavy.. Idk maybe the servers had some issues so I won't say their OP.. Yet. Gotta problem with tanks? Go fit an anti tank railgun.. There problem solved.. Dude, just... No. A whole hell of a lot of No. I used to own the FAT GAT until this --> [ASCII Art removed - *draconian forum overlord* CCP Logibro]
TheWee BabySeamus Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 93	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:32:00 - [140] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: TheWee BabySeamus wrote: Please explain to me the thinking behind the future heavy nerf. Just had a mosey around the office. My latest understanding is that we haven't fully committed to nerfing Heavy EHP just yet. We're going to keep an eye on it and see how things pan out. That doesn't mean there will or will not be a nerf! - just that we're going to approach it carefully. THANK YOU SABERWING please approach this carefully, Heavies have been gimped since Chromosome. DDB Director & Bitter Vet My Minmatar Heavy eats Medium frames for a snack..............I'm fat :(

IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 299	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:51:00 - [141] - Quote Interesting that a hotfix for HAVs is possible...should've been hotfixed three months ago in that case. Of course, it could be that some of the work that's gone on since then was to actually allow hotfixes to be possible in the first place. We don't know everything, nor should we. But if this was true, it would help to say so. We would have better understanding about things that get us riled up. As for CPM, for me personally, it's not so much what they can and can't do, but the way they go about their business. Their approach is wrong, they rub ppl up the wrong way, and come across as like-whores. I don't have as much respect for them as I should. shrugs It is what it is, fark it, I'm still having fun. Then again, I didn't spec heavy...yet.
Bro-metheus Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 68	Posted - 2014.03.26 20:57:00 - [142] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: Interesting that a hotfix for HAVs is possible...should've been hotfixed three months ago in that case. Of course, it could be that some of the work that's gone on since then was to actually allow hotfixes to be possible in the first place. We don't know everything, nor should we. But if this was true, it would help to say so. We would have better understanding about things that get us riled up. As for CPM, for me personally, it's not so much what they can and can't do, but the way they go about their business. Their approach is wrong, they rub ppl up the wrong way, and come across as like-whores. I don't have as much respect for them as I should. shrugs It is what it is, fark it, I'm still having fun. Then again, I didn't spec heavy...yet. informing is one on the foundations of good leadership. By not keeping us properly informed and up date they breed mistrust and animosity.
I Shot You The Exemplars Top Men. 25	Posted - 2014.03.26 21:49:00 - [143] - Quote Bro-metheus wrote: I have to say great job listening to Completely Pathetic Management (CPM) once again. You adjust heavies without waiting to see what happens in the player bases hands testing vs the more powerful and changed splash weapons and lasers. But you let tanks sit for what will prob be 6-8 months or more before making even the smallest of adjustments? I know CCP has a record of excellence to maintain (sarcasm) but really try slightly loosening your head from your ass, or at the very least wiggle your head around to make some breathing room in there. You play test like old people ****. they will now even fix the swam launcher at all not talk about that
Charlotte O'Dell Fatal Absolution Negative-Feedback 2245	Posted - 2014.03.26 22:05:00 - [144] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Don't Blam it up Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core 615	Posted - 2014.03.26 22:11:00 - [145] - Quote Denesian Morenti wrote: Just grab a forge gun and have some fun. It works for me! it's fun shooting blanks A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. GalHeav E-vo
Ivy Zalinto Bobbit's Hangmen 348	Posted - 2014.03.26 22:22:00 - [146] - Quote Quote: So you can change heavys on the whim of the CPM but not tanks? Yes...Heavies outnumber tanks. Massively now that the other races are out and about. Sentinels at least need a locked slot that can ONLY use heavy weapons... Dedicated Stealth Scout. Scout instructor; Learning Coalition Sidearms are terribly underestimated.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 164	Posted - 2014.03.27 00:47:00 - [147] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: Tanks will also be getting a hot fix, but we haven't nailed down exactly how it will be presented, hence why it's not in the hotfix post yet. Stay turned, and it will get added once we've decided how we want to do it. Just an FYI for everyone who didn't know.. Tanks are harder too balance, you don't want them too weak or too strong. An hmg insta killing you at 60m yeah whatever I can live with that but it taking 3 full clips of six kin to kill a heavy.. Idk maybe the servers had some issues so I won't say their OP.. Yet. Gotta problem with tanks? Go fit an anti tank railgun.. There problem solved.. If you had to expend three full clips of six kin to kill any heavy, you either A) Missed nearly all your shots B) Were so far away that the bullets shouldn't be able to damage nearly anyone C) You had massive lag spikes in the game. The fact is, at most any heavy can take a full two clips probably just 1 full clip or maybe 1 + /1/2, and I am talking full proto here with all proto modules without dying, as it is I can kill most heavies with 1 full on burst of the basic laser rifle without being fulled speced into it. Rail Rifles still take down heavies easily and so do many other things. For example the other day I unloaded a full clip of magsec into a light frame mlt, he did not die or take any damage, it was a sudden lag spike that saved him for right then, I had to reload with his gun pointed at me thankfully I was somewhat hidden, he nearly killed me, I won with like 20armor left if that, I also had over 700Ehp when the whole ordeal started. So yeah, you probably got lag smacked because they just patched the game.
Syeven Reed RETR0 PR0 GAMERS 486	Posted - 2014.03.27 12:41:00 - [148] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: How in gods name is a 20% stab in the face "approaching it carefully"? Seems like you didn't understand what I said. The 20% isn't set in stone, nor is it guaranteed to be happening at all yet. EHP is something we'll be monitoring. I wonder if the Devs ever feel like their hitting their head against a brick wall.... Iv seen saber say the same thing about 200 times all over the forums yet people lack the ability to take it in. Gÿé Syeven 514 Application for CPM1


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