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TYCHUS MAXWELL
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2014.03.23 04:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Delta 749 wrote:I like how you rant about people not using AV when AV is broken and I dont mean UP I mean some of it is fundamentally broken and then you whine about people using militia tanks instead of AV when tanks are better for tank busting and cheaper as well
But hey, blame everyone else, its not you using something broken as a crutch And it seems like your mad that you can't solo a tank anymore . Now does this sound like children arguing or can the adults come out to have a discussion?
He's mad that he can't solo another player 1 to 1. Russian Tanks were getting wrecked by German children at the end of world war 2, we have portable weaponry that will wreck tanks in modern warfare let alone in a space age universe like eve.
I don't mind tanks taking team work to kill if they would quit being hypocrites and require teamwork to operate.
My Suggestion, make Large turrets pretty ineffective against infantry forcing the use of small turrets as anti infantry and here's how it can be done.
Large Missle Turret: Lower splash damage to 1 meter making near direct hits mandatory, that combined with a slow rotation it already has means it can direct hit other vehicles but be rough at taking out infantry.
Rail Turret: Lower splash to 1 meter as well making direct hits where it's useful for taking out vehicles.
Blaster Turrets: Give them a massive spread on their shots while upping their damage so that they can compete for damage on large targets like vehicles but again be fairly ineffective when trying to mow down infantry.
I'll call your av needs teamwork and raise you a tanks should require teamwork too.
I literally have a notepad doc saved as tank QQ for how often you guys completely ignore the hypocrisy and claim some bullshit realism that is in fact false. The only time tanks are deployed now is when the enemy can only throw spit wads. If Russia and the US went to war right now, tanks are going to be useless, they would only grow to be more obsolete in an era of Space Warfare, but in that respect this whole game is pointless just like EVE is using WW2 era naval tactics when warfare would have evolved far beyond such crude methods as blowing your opponents to pieces. You are in a hostile environment called space where your opponents are dependant on life support derp, you don't need to blow them apart conventionally. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
96
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Posted - 2014.03.23 18:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:My Suggestion, make Large turrets pretty ineffective against infantry forcing the use of small turrets as anti infantry and here's how it can be done.
Large Missle Turret: Lower splash damage to 1 meter making near direct hits mandatory, that combined with a slow rotation it already has means it can direct hit other vehicles but be rough at taking out infantry.
Rail Turret: Lower splash to 1 meter as well making direct hits where it's useful for taking out vehicles.
Blaster Turrets: Give them a massive spread on their shots while upping their damage so that they can compete for damage on large targets like vehicles but again be fairly ineffective when trying to mow down infantry. Rail Turret could do even less than 1m splash and still be useful for its role. Missile Turrets I STRONGLY disagree with nerfing splash radius on, but I wouldn't object to the splash DAMAGE being reduced (not the radius). Make it so that Large Missiles deal high direct damage and a small amount of splash damage, but that splash still hits a wide radius. And Blasters are MEANT to be anti-infantry. There are two ways Blaster Turrets can be balanced. The first option is to define them into the anti-infantry role they seem to be filling at the moment by treating them the same way as any other anti-infantry weapons. Nerf them against vehicles, give them a damage reduction effect. It might not be as harsh as what Assault Rifles get, but they shouldn't be hitting full force on another tank if they're meant to be anti-infantry. The other option is to make them the close-range specialist weapons that Gallente are famous for. Let them remain powerful, but only within an EXTREMELY limited range.
No one is saying, and I mean no one, that CCP doesn't make mistakes so it's moot to say what a blaster turret is meant for.
Like I said and will say again, it has to be 1 to 1. If someone has an anti tank weapon it shouldn't require teamwork unless the tank requires teamwork. Making the Turrets Anti-vehicle was my suggestion to doing this but there are many others including making the large turret a weapon used by another occupant kind of like how the main guns in borderlands are not operated by the driver.
Teamwork for Teamwork or no teamwork requirement, pick one and quit being douche bags.
Edit: I know that last statement is harsh but it's true, there isn't a day that goes by where the major arguement for anti balance is the "The pendulum swung the other way give us our imbalance time nows!" Wreaks of douche bag and is universally used as a defense in this game for bad mechanics. This community is hands down why this game sucks so much and CCP can't get it together. It's full of selfish pricks that would rather the game die in obscurity then flourish without their exploits. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
96
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 18:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Does it take teamwork to kill a heavy in most cases ??? Will it take teamwork to kill heavies and sentinels in 1.8 ??? Unless your a heavy I would think so for the most part , even more so the fact that damage mods will be changing .
But I guess come Monday we will see .
You need to infantry more bro, it doesn't take heavies or groups to kill heavies, if you blindside them they are dead before they can turn around, which is likely as they are slow moving and slow turning. Tanks though? I can blind side one of those with my proto forge gun and there's still a good chance that they can mow me down or one shot me before I kill them in the 20 seconds it takes with their hardeners up. You have to try to fail (IE sit there and not retreat or shoot them) in a tank to die to a solo av.
But you see that's why people hate tanks, because you guys are so disillusioned that you actually think a scout/assualt suit fighting a heavy is in the same ballpark as a swarm/plc/forge fighting a tank. Many weapons can insta gib a heavy and you can outrun them. You can't outrun tanks and the one weapon that can insta gib, the remote mine field, is immobile or requires the tank to sit there and let you stick explosives to them. In your analogy terms, that would be like a heavy suit letting an assault suit rifle butt them to death. You can jihad jeep but they are removing stickies in 1.8 because CCP won't stop listening to bad advice, because all it took was seeing the target and shooting it to blow them up. If jihad jeeps were OP then so are scouts with shotguns. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
96
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 18:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Does it take teamwork to kill a heavy in most cases ??? Will it take teamwork to kill heavies and sentinels in 1.8 ??? Unless your a heavy I would think so for the most part , even more so the fact that damage mods will be changing .
But I guess come Monday we will see . You need to infantry more bro, it doesn't take heavies or groups to kill heavies, if you blindside them they are dead before they can turn around, which is likely as they are slow moving and slow turning. Tanks though? I can blind side one of those with my proto forge gun and there's still a good chance that they can mow me down or one shot me before I kill them in the 20 seconds it takes with their hardeners up. You have to try to fail (IE sit there and not retreat or shoot them) in a tank to die to a solo av. But you see that's why people hate tanks, because you guys are so disillusioned that you actually think a scout/assualt suit fighting a heavy is in the same ballpark as a swarm/plc/forge fighting a tank. Many weapons can insta gib a heavy and you can outrun them. You can't outrun tanks and the one weapon that can insta gib, the remote mine field, is immobile or requires the tank to sit there and let you stick explosives to them. In your analogy terms, that would be like a heavy suit letting an assault suit rifle butt them to death. You can jihad jeep but they are removing stickies in 1.8 because CCP won't stop listening to bad advice, because all it took was seeing the target and shooting it to blow them up. If jihad jeeps were OP then so are scouts with shotguns. Can you defeat a heavy alone ... in a suit that's not bricked out or as a scout with a maxed out shotgun ??? If not then you have your answer and whatever you write truly has no merit .
You should read what you quote, Spoilers I can, so can many people who infantry bro. A CR, RR, AR, LR (at a distance), SR, SMG, ScR, and ScP can, you just have to not be bad, which isn't likely if you only use tanks since 1.7. Heavies are easy to mag dump because they can't move. If you are trying to blow them up with anything less than a remote explosive though then there's your problem which will get worse in 1.8. Hell I say that, but I kill plenty of adv/proto hmg heavies with a std minnie assault and a std MD by simply not engaging the heavy in its very small effective range of like 0-40 meters, which most light weapons can outrange combined with the fact that even an Amarr med suit can outrun. Sorry if you only FOTM brick tank a gallente med suit and then wonder why you get cut down by the heavies. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
96
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 18:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Temias Mercurial wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:My Suggestion, make Large turrets pretty ineffective against infantry forcing the use of small turrets as anti infantry and here's how it can be done.
Large Missle Turret: Lower splash damage to 1 meter making near direct hits mandatory, that combined with a slow rotation it already has means it can direct hit other vehicles but be rough at taking out infantry.
Rail Turret: Lower splash to 1 meter as well making direct hits where it's useful for taking out vehicles.
Blaster Turrets: Give them a massive spread on their shots while upping their damage so that they can compete for damage on large targets like vehicles but again be fairly ineffective when trying to mow down infantry. Rail Turret could do even less than 1m splash and still be useful for its role. Missile Turrets I STRONGLY disagree with nerfing splash radius on, but I wouldn't object to the splash DAMAGE being reduced (not the radius). Make it so that Large Missiles deal high direct damage and a small amount of splash damage, but that splash still hits a wide radius. And Blasters are MEANT to be anti-infantry. There are two ways Blaster Turrets can be balanced. The first option is to define them into the anti-infantry role they seem to be filling at the moment by treating them the same way as any other anti-infantry weapons. Nerf them against vehicles, give them a damage reduction effect. It might not be as harsh as what Assault Rifles get, but they shouldn't be hitting full force on another tank if they're meant to be anti-infantry. The other option is to make them the close-range specialist weapons that Gallente are famous for. Let them remain powerful, but only within an EXTREMELY limited range. No one is saying, and I mean no one, that CCP doesn't make mistakes so it's moot to say what a blaster turret is meant for. Like I said and will say again, it has to be 1 to 1. If someone has an anti tank weapon it shouldn't require teamwork unless the tank requires teamwork. Making the Turrets Anti-vehicle was my suggestion to doing this but there are many others including making the large turret a weapon used by another occupant kind of like how the main guns in borderlands are not operated by the driver. Teamwork for Teamwork or no teamwork requirement, pick one and quit being douche bags. Edit: I know that last statement is harsh but it's true, there isn't a day that goes by where the major arguement for anti balance is the "The pendulum swung the other way give us our imbalance time nows!" Wreaks of douche bag and is universally used as a defense in this game for bad mechanics. This community is hands down why this game sucks so much and CCP can't get it together. It's full of selfish pricks that would rather the game die in obscurity then flourish without their exploits. Tanks use to have higher sp sinks, but with overpowered militia tanks, there is no incentive to skill into them. With tanks having a higher sp sink, they should require at least two people to destroy it relatively easily. Tanks potentially cost more than AV, but again, with overpowered militia tanks, this is severely clouded. For a tank to be truly effective, they require higher sp investments, but again, militia offers no incentive due to being far to effective and efficient. The problem is, the moment vehicles are EASILY susceptible to AV again, the moment a vehicle appears, you'll see 3-4 AV players looking for easy points, destroy it, and go back to killing infantry. I know this a pilot. ADS were not that effective pre 1.7, yet you'd see 4 forge guns or swarmers after you, even though you haven't done anything to really provoke them, and get shot down within seconds of entering their air space. So I'm not for getting killed by 3 assault forges hunting me down... again.
Well like I said my suggestion is to change the large turrets to force the use of the smaller turrets for anti infantry and therefor force teamwork. SP sinks alone should not justify a force multiplier. And no one is talking about dropships here, dropships are fine. Can they be soloed? Yes if the pilot doesn't disengage, which dropships are the most capable of disengaging from anything other than a rail turret which leads back to the OP nature of tanks. You have a vehicle that can zip around the map and literally drop squads on any target. Begging to be a killing machine is the same as Logis begging to be a killing machine. You are fully capable of killing especially in an ADS. You also are the best support vehicle available when utilized properly. Also, none of anything going on in this thread had anything to do with dropships so not sure why you brought them up. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
97
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 19:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well like I said, I don't advocate soloing tanks I advocate 1 to 1. If tanks require teamwork to kill they should require teamwork to operate effectively. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 19:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Well like I said, I don't advocate soloing tanks I advocate 1 to 1. If tanks require teamwork to kill they should require teamwork to operate effectively. So your advocating soloing because you can't have it both ways .
Do you ever read the posts you quote? This is the third time you quoted something from me where I distinctly said the opposite of what you claim. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2014.03.23 19:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Well like I said, I don't advocate soloing tanks I advocate 1 to 1. If tanks require teamwork to kill they should require teamwork to operate effectively. So your advocating soloing because you can't have it both ways . Do you ever read the posts you quote? This is the third time you quoted something from me where I distinctly said the opposite of what you claim. You can't have it both ways . HAV's are vehicles and if they need multiple users to operate then all vehicles should as well . You can't have it both ways . You said Drop ships are fine when we all know that they are not and could use some refortification . You come across as a HAV hater .
Define both ways?
What do you mean by having it both ways?
Dropships are the most mobile thing in this game that can drop troops anywhere on the map. If they get more fortified they will be OP. Vehicles are about roles not being the best. Tanks are meant to be front pushers, right now they are solo killdozers. Dropships are harrasment/troop transport and that's exactly what they are. LAVs are harrasment ground transports and that's exactly what they are.
If by both ways you meant you can't have it take as many infantry to kill a tank as it takes for a tank to be operated efficiently..... WHY?! Why do you believe tanks should be one man armies?
Tanks were destroyed by children carrying panzerschrecks in WW2. Tanks now a days are obsolete in first world warfare and are only deployed by 3rd world countries or when 1st world countries are picking on 3rd world countries. Tanks today are not and have never been operated by one person.
Where is you justification for having a force multiplier in a lobby shooter, it's bad game design and it's not realistic so what is your defense other then "muh feelings"? |
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