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jerrmy12 kahoalii
526
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Posted - 2014.03.18 00:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:Yeah, the HMG should be nerfed 5%, damage wise.
It needs ita rof buff gone
Closed beta vet
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
539
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Posted - 2014.03.18 09:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
TunRa wrote:LEHON Xeon wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Mad Syringe wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Heavies can tank REs. Sometimes three, in edge cases.
Proto knives are survivable for up to four strikes even if you charge initially.
Flux will assist, but the only heavy it'll be really effective against will be the Minmatar one. And they all have a 25% blast resistance, so the mass driver is out the window.
Some heavies can tank a full magsec clip. Direct hits with the MD still do full damage! So you need to aim, and not only spam the floor. In the end, the heavy will need teamwork to take down or a sneaky scout to prepare him... Oh god another "will need teamwork to take down" argument. Look, game is only 16v16 - this argument didn't work with Tanks and it sure as **** won't work with Heavies unless there's a limit to how many can be fielded and I know for a solid fact no-one wants that. If it takes more than one person to kill any one other person - there's an imbalance. It's the DEFINITION of imbalance. It needs counters. Not -counter-. Plural. Edit: And it should -NOT- under any circumstances be the exact same thing used to counter it. It's terrible game design to have to counter something with what you're countering. This is my great concern for 1.8 as well. You get multiple people in sentinel suits camping a primary objective (the pivotal point in skirmish or the sole objective in Dom) and no one is going to be getting in there in any reasonable time because of all the stupid high resistance buffs. Grenade damage is automatically nerfed, if they use all Amarr and Gallente heavies, all RR and CR damage is automatically nerfed, and so are indirect mass driver rounds. You get 4 or 5 of these guys, all in the same suit with most using CRs and RRs, it's going to make for a really ugly time. Focus fire maybe? Take down 1 sentinel at a time, not just have a team of 16 shoot everywhere.
How would you counter 16 heavies? [/quote]
Just like the 16 tanjs problem
You cant.
Closed beta vet
Logi,
Heavy,
Python,
Scout.
Dark souls 2 new game plus.
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
539
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Posted - 2014.03.18 09:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Damage mods are still getting nerfed. And proficiency.
You seriously can't do anything with just a HMG.
I want to say 99% of heavies use damage mods.
Shouldn't be that bad.
I never use damage mods yet I instakill
Closed beta vet
Logi,
Heavy,
Python,
Scout.
Dark souls 2 new game plus.
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
547
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Posted - 2014.03.19 02:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:I gotta disagree with you scales.
HMG Sentinel is just about perfectly balanced in 1.7.
And in 1.8 it's effectively getting a 9% DPS buff relative to rifles, a significant EHP buff if resistances align, and a huge buff to defense against the one reliable hard counter to Heavies: REs.
I think it's all too much at once. I've been a dedicated HMG user through all the nerf buff cycles since 8/2012, and I'm worried this next patch will make us too damn powerful... Which means we'll be beaten to death with the nerf bat in 1.9 or the patch after that.
Only thing that needs tweaking is the hmg and amar heavy low alots, add one
Closed beta vet
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Python,
Scout.
Dark souls 2 new game plus.
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
548
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Posted - 2014.03.19 03:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Scalesdini wrote:
15% resistance is for someone who has put millions of SP into one suit. You know what counters that? If you put millions of SP into the one gun they have 15% resistance to, id est: proficiency skill. You know what that's called? Balance. Further most of the resistances combat a weapon's strengths anyway, mostly just lowering it (Cal Sentinel - 15% shield resistance to blaster weapons, which do +20% to shields anyway, 10% to lasers which to +20% to shields, etc) and not negating it. Exceptions being Amarr and Gallente with projectile weapons, but again, prof V eliminates sentinel V resistance. Balanced.
Why is HMG not getting a nerf? Because that DPS everyone likes to pretend can be applied in the real world can only be applied at shotgun range. At 20m, HMG cannot possibly apply 100% of paper DPS - barely more than half. At 30m, it's under half. People seem to like to ignore this part of HMG, probably because they don't use it and assume it's like their laser accurate ____ rifle which can hit with every shot with decent aim (or aim assist, something that is weaker on HMG than on rifles anyway - not that I give a single solitary ****, it needs removed, but I digress...) but it isn't. That cone of fire that makes it so deadly at CQC also severely hampers its effectiveness at anything but CQC, even inside its own optimal it cannot apply 100% of its theoretical DPS. Tiny effective range, absurd falloff of damage between optimal and effective, massive dispersion - it's not doing the DPS people think except in close ranges, and if you're that close to the business end of an HMG, you're supposed to die. Learn2Flank.
The problem I have with this is that it's arguably more SP investment to counter the resistances than to get them. If you're speccing into Sentinels, you're getting the bonus all the way up to level five but in order to counter that you'd have to invest not only in 'x' weapon operation 5, but also Proficiency 5. It's the aspect that it costs more to counter the suit that's already powerful without the necessity of having other skills involved. Probably not wording it the way I want to but I can't get on Dust 514 right now to do a comparison of SP investment between Racial Sentinel 5 and Weapon Proficiency 5. The next thing is the 'learn2flank' comment which... Not gonna lie, sort of rubs me the wrong way. Part of the argument that there's no viable CQC counter to the Heavy is that they turn just as fast as any other suit. Flanking is great but unless you can apply such massive damage as to outright kill them in less time than it takes them to turn around; there's an issue involved. First shot capabilities are always great but we're talking about a lot of damage coming back if they live through it. It has a lot to do with map design as well as some maps (in particular the new Gallente maps) offer complete aerial cover; so kiss OB/DS support goodbye. Some of those maps have one way in and one way out, which poses a pretty hefty problem in the hallway/corridor like structure of the building's design. I'm sure heavies love this because it's true point defense but it begs the question: How do you counter it?
3 mil sp vs 1.4 mil sp
Closed beta vet
Logi,
Heavy,
Python,
Scout.
Dark souls 2 new game plus.
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