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howard sanchez Sanchez Cartage llc 868	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:49:00 - [1] - Quote http://evenews24.com/2014/03/12/way-of-the-mercenary-recycling/ Care to comment, CCP?
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1679	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:56:00 - [2] - Quote Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. Drop it like its hat.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2967	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:59:00 - [3] - Quote Oh so thats what thread was about I know someone who currently recycles about 30charas on 10 PSN accounts, i think he spends more time doing that than playing the game Intelligence is OP
howard sanchez Sanchez Cartage llc 868	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:59:00 - [4] - Quote I agree there are a lot of fixes that could be applied. Some easy some effective some not so much But the first step to improving the product is recognizing the need to fix it Care to comment, CCP?
howard sanchez Sanchez Cartage llc 868	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:02:00 - [5] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Oh so thats what thread was about I know someone who currently recycles about 30charas on 10 PSN accounts, i think he spends more time doing that than playing the game Mr Kashuken, Would you agree with the article's author that this kind of behavior, when practiced by many players, could contribute to substantial economic and gameplay imbalance for DUST and, eventually EVE? CCP, anything to add?
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2967	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:10:00 - [6] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Oh so thats what thread was about I know someone who currently recycles about 30charas on 10 PSN accounts, i think he spends more time doing that than playing the game Mr Kashuken, Would you agree with the article's author that this kind of behavior, when practiced by many players, could contribute to substantial economic and gameplay imbalance for DUST and, eventually EVE? CCP, anything to add? Gameplay imbalance? lolno they are not playing the game Economic imbalance? Meh, they say my BPO ruin the economy but at least i play the game but i dont buy it anyways since proto is too cheap, PC is farmville 250k is nothing really, all they have to do is make it so no isk for you and you have to play game to get isk Intelligence is OP
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12218	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:11:00 - [7] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Oh so thats what thread was about I know someone who currently recycles about 30charas on 10 PSN accounts, i think he spends more time doing that than playing the game Mr Kashuken, Would you agree with the article's author that this kind of behavior, when practiced by many players, could contribute to substantial economic and gameplay imbalance for DUST and, eventually EVE? CCP, anything to add? [CCP]Saberwing said they're looking into it. They can easily track everyone who's done it, so hopefully they reverse the ISK and hand out bans. Fixing the issue should be fairly simple. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DootDoot Da Short Buss 238	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:28:00 - [8] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: howard sanchez wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Oh so thats what thread was about I know someone who currently recycles about 30charas on 10 PSN accounts, i think he spends more time doing that than playing the game Mr Kashuken, Would you agree with the article's author that this kind of behavior, when practiced by many players, could contribute to substantial economic and gameplay imbalance for DUST and, eventually EVE? CCP, anything to add? [CCP]Saberwing said they're looking into it. They can easily track everyone who's done it, so hopefully they reverse the ISK and hand out bans. Fixing the issue should be fairly simple. CCP just needs to take a hard stance on this kind of behavior and start handing out public bans... These players are maliciously trying to cheat the entire game at the expense of a new to DUST player starting with a measly 250k. Taking advantage of terrible game mechanics is on CCP head for blame... Turbo Controllers, Sprint, Melee, Sprint.. Equipment spam... etc... But taking advantage of the character creation process and the new player creation process is straight up with malicious intent.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7347	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:33:00 - [9] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. On your first point, I doubt CCP would let something like this sit for that long considering the grave impact this has on the future economy. Generating ISK by means of recycling characters rather than just actually playing the game is a major game-breaking exploit that needs to be fixed pronto. Eve Online seems to get it right at least where new characters are concerned. In Eve, your characters starts off with only a bare-bones 5,000 ISK as an inheritance and biomass time is at least 24 hours long. Of course, a while after thinking of this concept, there is the PlayStation Network's nature to consider here. It's extremely easy to create new accounts without having to worry about the size of your wallet. So the PSN alone makes it far too easy to circumvent the 5,000 ISK and 24 hour limit. That said, there can only be one possible solution now after thinking deeply about it. REMOVE ALL STARTER ISK UPON CREATING A NEW CHARACTER. NO EXCEPTIONS. Some people will point out that this idea is not fair for the new player who will have to later on invest some ISK for purchasing skill books and gear from the market in order to progress. But that excuse is not a valid excuse and here is why. Every character that is created comes complete with a set of starter suits with starter gear. This is the Dust equivalent of the Eve Online rookie ships which are free every time you dock up in a station in a pod and the station you dock in doesn't have any of your ships. The rookie ships themselves also come with a civilian mining laser for some profit making and a civilian turret for self defense. Just like the Eve rookie ships, those Dust starter suits have everything you need. All you have to do is grind a couple of matches and you get enough ISK to get a new skill book if you have to without having to worry about replenishing your stock. They are just like the BPOs only with certain limitations but even then you're not losing anything when you die in these suits. Some people will say that starter fits are useless. That is not true and here is why. Here we look to Eve Online's rookie ships as an example. During the time of Hulkageddon, a New Eden pass time where mining ships in high-sec space are suicide ganked as a major blood sport for bragging rights and rewards, there were fleets known as "The Fleet of a Thousand Ibises" where literally a fleet of a thousand Ibises fitted only with one turret was enough to suicide gank even a Hulk (the strongest exhumer-class mining ship of its time) back then and still make a profit from the wreck they created on top of the rewards they got with only the cost of one decent turret and the equivalent of a damage mod. This same fleet composition was also sometimes used in null-sec roams and are able to take down destroyers, cruisers, and even battlecruisers and maybe a battleship. Think of an ant pile swarming an intruder and each of those ants happen to be fire ants. Have you ever been bitten by a swarm of fire ants? It ain't fun and you'll just have a bad day despite the fact that you are hundreds of times bigger than they are. So a well-trained and organized squad of starter suits will just mop the floor with the blood of proto suits any day. So if you only have starter fits and you're still broke, just join a corp that will help you learn how to fight effectively with what little you have. So there. There is NO excuse anymore for having the starter ISK for new characters. Just remove the starter ISK in general and we're all good and gravy. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5662	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:39:00 - [10] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. But then they wouldn't be able to experiment with the MLT items whilist inside the Battle Academy. The practical approach, would be to make the 250k ISK non-transferable. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7349	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:43:00 - [11] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. But then they wouldn't be able to experiment with the MLT items whilist inside the Battle Academy. The practical approach, would be to make the 250k ISK non-transferable. Please read my last post. They won't need the starter ISK if all they have to do to buy militia gear is to grind 2-3 matches in starter suits. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
DootDoot Da Short Buss 241	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:52:00 - [12] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. But then they wouldn't be able to experiment with the MLT items whilist inside the Battle Academy. The practical approach, would be to make the 250k ISK non-transferable. Market credit only... Would be cool. And more then enough of a fix... Would need a separate currency rating probably for that however.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12219	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:52:00 - [13] - Quote Whatever happens I hope they take a firm stance on this, perma ban the offenders and revert as much of the ISK as possible. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
howard sanchez Sanchez Cartage llc 869	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:54:00 - [14] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Atiim wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. But then they wouldn't be able to experiment with the MLT items whilist inside the Battle Academy. The practical approach, would be to make the 250k ISK non-transferable. Please read my last post. They won't need the starter ISK if all they have to do to buy militia gear is to grind 2-3 matches in starter suits. I have to agree with both Maken and Atilim, there ARE good solutions, effective solutions to be had! But the suggestion that Saberwing or other CCP reps have acknowledged this issue in such an offhand, tentative and unofficial manner suggests that this company (already struggling with a dissatisfied and embryonic playerbase) may not be taking this matter seriously enough. It would be encouraging to see a direct response from CCP that such is not the case
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5663	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:55:00 - [15] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Please read my last post. They won't need the starter ISK if all they have to do to buy militia gear is to grind 2-3 matches in starter suits. You make an interesting point, however I don't think that would be a good idea until we improve the NPE. By the time 2-3 matches are played, the average player is already out of the Battle Academy, which puts him right where he would start, but pitted against full squads sporting the best gear available to the playerbase. I believe that the best path would be to bring back the old battle academy, and then implement your idea. But still make the ISK non-transferable. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
DootDoot Da Short Buss 241	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:58:00 - [16] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Atiim wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. But then they wouldn't be able to experiment with the MLT items whilist inside the Battle Academy. The practical approach, would be to make the 250k ISK non-transferable. Please read my last post. They won't need the starter ISK if all they have to do to buy militia gear is to grind 2-3 matches in starter suits. They do need the ISK... For skills... 250k in skills is gone before you even have 1/4 of what you would need... 250k for a new player is really absolutely nothing... And that 250k makes the new player experience that much better... Really they need a comprehensive new player learning Academy.... Where you have a quest to put down a nanohive and have 2 team mates take ammo from it. Put down an Uplink and have 2 spawn from it. Call in a MLT Tank, Dropship, LAV... And reward players with ISK for completing these tasks... They actually get to learn a big chunk of the game before leaving the academy.. Which most don't get to experience on beginner level... its MLT AR 514 in the Battle academy and they get out.... And there are tanks everywhere... dropships shooting them.. LAV's running them over...Magical pads spawning 6 red enemies out of it... Can't find ammo.. Kinda sad and funny at the same time.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2123	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:01:00 - [17] - Quote well as I brought up in other threads the simplest implementation which shouldn't take much time at all to implement would be to prevent new players from trading until they've have had a required number of game, I think it should be 30 but as was mentioned in other threads on the topic you could tie it into the academy system for even less work required, this would also prevent afking so it's kind of a win win.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5663	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:01:00 - [18] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Whatever happens I hope they take a firm stance on this, perma ban the offenders and revert as much of the ISK as possible. I don't think perma-ban the offenders would be the right course of action. If they perma-ban the people who were abusing this game mechanic to generate ISK from the academy, then they'd also have to perma-ban the people who were abusing game mechanics to generate ISK from DIstrict Locking as well. So that would be what, 80% of the playerbase? I'd say to remove the ISK of course, but don't perma-ban the players. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2565	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:05:00 - [19] - Quote No isk transfer for 30 days on character creation, it would take that look to grind out anything worth sending to a main anyway. If you where uaing the character as a legit alt "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2123	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:08:00 - [20] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: No isk transfer for 30 days on character creation, it would take that look to grind out anything worth sending to a main anyway. If you where uaing the character as a legit alt time based won't do, they will just start a trendy line of characters waiting for the 30 days to end, and in 30 days you are back to square one. basing it on games though they would need to play games on each of those characters, spend an hour or more time playing each character, all for 250k isk, it's just not worth it, and theirs no way to really to farm that in that way, it also won't effect new players in any relative way, where a real character might want to start trading isk within those 30 days, not likely but i could see it happening.

Ace Starburst PiZzA DuDeS 71	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:09:00 - [21] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. But then they wouldn't be able to experiment with the MLT items whilist inside the Battle Academy. The practical approach, would be to make the 250k ISK non-transferable. That'd do it. Give the free starter ISK a separate database field than the regular ISK and modify the transfer ISK program to only select the ISK from the regular field. *Edit, although now that I think about it that would start a bootleg market for transferring weapons and gear purchased with free ISK once the player market is up. Secondary functions would have to be implemented that would stop players from purchasing items on the player market with free ISK and selling items purchased with free ISK.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7350	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:10:00 - [22] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: No isk transfer for 30 days on character creation, it would take that look to grind out anything worth sending to a main anyway. If you where uaing the character as a legit alt What's stop them from cycling their characters to circumvent that? Day 1: Alt 001, Alt 002, Alt 003, etc. transfers starter ISK to Main Character. Day 2: Alt 011, Alt 012, Alt 013, etc. transfers starter ISK to Main Character. . . . . . . Day 30: Alt 120, Alt 121, Alt 122, etc. transfers starters ISK to Main Character. ... Monthly cycle starts over. . . . Day 1: Alt 001, Alt 002, Alt 003, etc. transfers starter ISK to Main Character. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
howard sanchez Sanchez Cartage llc 869	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:13:00 - [23] - Quote Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Whatever happens I hope they take a firm stance on this, perma ban the offenders and revert as much of the ISK as possible. I don't think perma-ban the offenders would be the right course of action. If they perma-ban the people who were abusing this game mechanic to generate ISK from the academy, then they'd also have to perma-ban the people who were abusing game mechanics to generate ISK from DIstrict Locking as well. So that would be what, 80% of the playerbase? I'd say to remove the ISK of course, but don't perma-ban the players. See, Atilim makes an excellent point. CCP cannot afford to alienate anyone in the community if they can avoid it. They need a legitimately growing customer base. I get that this is Priority One. But I worry that this might lead them to ignore this kind of problem "until DUST grows up a bit". But that is like not treating the cancer because patients don't like chemo. There are other options than a swiftly swung ban-hammer. But they really need to consider and ACT to prevent this from undermining the game in its infancy. Again, prior to even suggesting or agreeing upon a course of action, I believe what must happen next is CCP should honestly and transparently recognize the issue and publicly commit to resolving it. Of course, given thier carteblanche company policy of not responding to customers or communicating in an open and direct manner, there may be little hope of progress. Thank you all for your consideration of this matter
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 120	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:50:00 - [24] - Quote The easiest (and safe) way would be to block ISK transfer below a minimum wallet balance of 250,000 ISK. (I.e a character with 1mil ISK can maximum transfer 750,000, always leaving 250,000 left in the wallet.) That way a newborn can only transfer what they actually earn in battle, and gives an extra safety net against (accidentally) empty you wallet in a transfer.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 1035	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:54:00 - [25] - Quote Would love to hear from CCP about this. It seems like it could cause a great deal of problems once the market hits. "I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
Grimmiers 0uter.Heaven 444	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:59:00 - [26] - Quote I noticed this too. I suggest making it so isk from player creation and academy matches can't be transferred. If ccp could do this without requiring a third currency that would be ideal. If they improve the npe they could probably make it so you have 0 isk until you play a real match and let you play for entry skillbooks and dropsuits to use. SoundCloud Recruiter Link Pronounced Grim-e-urs
Ace Starburst PiZzA DuDeS 71	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:00:00 - [27] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: The easiest (and safe) way would be to block ISK transfer below a minimum wallet balance of 250,000 ISK. (I.e a character with 1mil ISK can maximum transfer 750,000, always leaving 250,000 left in the wallet.) That way a newborn can only transfer what they actually earn in battle, and gives an extra safety net against (accidentally) empty you wallet in a transfer. That would solve the initial problem, but unless some other function was created they would be able transfer that initial 250K into items and then possibly transfer those to another character to then make a profit off of.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12220	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:15:00 - [28] - Quote Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Whatever happens I hope they take a firm stance on this, perma ban the offenders and revert as much of the ISK as possible. I don't think perma-ban the offenders would be the right course of action. If they perma-ban the people who were abusing this game mechanic to generate ISK from the academy, then they'd also have to perma-ban the people who were abusing game mechanics to generate ISK from DIstrict Locking as well. So that would be what, 80% of the playerbase? I'd say to remove the ISK of course, but don't perma-ban the players. While I think district locking was abused, I think it's pretty far from the level of exploit that biomass isk farms represent. District locking was, in and of itself, intended by CCP. Maybe they didn't intend for it to be so easy, but it was clear to them for a long time that it was happening, and they only just decided it was an issue. Farming 30 alts a day isn't something that could even remotely be misconstrued as intentional. It is a clear cut exploit, and people should be punished for it. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1817	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:39:00 - [29] - Quote DootDoot wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: howard sanchez wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Oh so thats what thread was about I know someone who currently recycles about 30charas on 10 PSN accounts, i think he spends more time doing that than playing the game Mr Kashuken, Would you agree with the article's author that this kind of behavior, when practiced by many players, could contribute to substantial economic and gameplay imbalance for DUST and, eventually EVE? CCP, anything to add? [CCP]Saberwing said they're looking into it. They can easily track everyone who's done it, so hopefully they reverse the ISK and hand out bans. Fixing the issue should be fairly simple. CCP just needs to take a hard stance on this kind of behavior and start handing out public bans... These players are maliciously trying to cheat the entire game at the expense of a new to DUST player starting with a measly 250k. Taking advantage of terrible game mechanics is on CCP head for blame... Turbo Controllers, Sprint, Melee, Sprint.. Equipment spam... etc... But taking advantage of the character creation process and the new player creation process is straight up with malicious intent. This character recycling can only be done because of the way CCP designed the character creation process so why isn't this also on their head? Conversely, why isn't all of this **** on the head of the person who is perpetrating it? I just think it is funny that it is apparently perfectly alright to use Turbo controllers, Sprint/Melee/Sprint etc, though someone who is doing something to create profit for themselves without directly harming anyone else is "malicious intent". Oh, you, double standards, you'll never cease to amaze me. IMHO, Biomass Isk farms and Molden Heath Farmville are no different than one another. Actually, IMHO, MH Farmville is worse if you ask me since they are actively denying portions of the playerbase from participating in their little circlejerk. Anyone can biomass Isk farm without kissing ass or fellating some tin god, the same cannot be said of PC Farmville. Kill PC and reclaim all wealth it has generated before it damages the game even further Closed Beta Bittervet Bomber
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 113	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:39:00 - [30] - Quote Wow. I canGÇÖt believe people are actually doing this, en masse. And is the starter ISK really only 250K? I remember it being 500K The best solution probably is that all characters start with 0 ISK. While it does sound harsh, I think itGÇÖs actually better for new players if they cannot invest any money on skill books straightaway. They should really learn about the skills first anyway, with a proper tutorial. You can easily make the starter amount of ISK in a couple of matches and I doubt that would hinder NPE. 250K is so little anyway, you can only get a couple of skill books with that. Well, have fun unravelling this CCP. Hope you catch them all. .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â.

Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 1132	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:44:00 - [31] - Quote Atiim wrote: But then they wouldn't be able to experiment with the MLT items whilist inside the Battle Academy. The practical approach, would be to make the 250k ISK non-transferable. You have a weird interpretation of the word "practical"... Did you perhaps by accident look it up in the antonym thesaurus?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7351	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:44:00 - [32] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Whatever happens I hope they take a firm stance on this, perma ban the offenders and revert as much of the ISK as possible. I don't think perma-ban the offenders would be the right course of action. If they perma-ban the people who were abusing this game mechanic to generate ISK from the academy, then they'd also have to perma-ban the people who were abusing game mechanics to generate ISK from DIstrict Locking as well. So that would be what, 80% of the playerbase? I'd say to remove the ISK of course, but don't perma-ban the players. While I think district locking was abused, I think it's pretty far from the level of exploit that biomass isk farms represent. District locking was, in and of itself, intended by CCP. Maybe they didn't intend for it to be so easy, but it was clear to them for a long time that it was happening, and they only just decided it was an issue. Farming 30 alts a day isn't something that could even remotely be misconstrued as intentional. It is a clear cut exploit, and people should be punished for it. I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. CCP does allow certain shenanigans to continue such as the PC District Locking because that's how they designed it (of course, they're changing that), but Alt Recycling as we see now is NOT one shenanigan CCP would let go unpunished. This is clearly a huge exploit that is apparently competing against PC District Locking and anyone caught doing it deserves the most severe punishments including a ban and total confiscation of ISK. If the ISK was used to buy assets, then those assets get confiscated too. They did this several times already in Eve Online when CCP was cracking down heavily on Bot farms and RMT rings in Null-Sec space. A major alliance lost a huge chunk of its wallets and assets to CCP's ATF-style raid once they were caught. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1817	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:46:00 - [33] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Whatever happens I hope they take a firm stance on this, perma ban the offenders and revert as much of the ISK as possible. I don't think perma-ban the offenders would be the right course of action. If they perma-ban the people who were abusing this game mechanic to generate ISK from the academy, then they'd also have to perma-ban the people who were abusing game mechanics to generate ISK from DIstrict Locking as well. So that would be what, 80% of the playerbase? I'd say to remove the ISK of course, but don't perma-ban the players. See, Atilim makes an excellent point. CCP cannot afford to alienate anyone in the community if they can avoid it. They need a legitimately growing customer base. I get that this is Priority One. But I worry that this might lead them to ignore this kind of problem "until DUST grows up a bit". But that is like not treating the cancer because patients don't like chemo. There are other options than a swiftly swung ban-hammer. But they really need to consider and ACT to prevent this from undermining the game in its infancy. Again, prior to even suggesting or agreeing upon a course of action, I believe what must happen next is CCP should honestly and transparently recognize the issue and publicly commit to resolving it. Of course, given thier carteblanche company policy of not responding to customers or communicating in an open and direct manner, there may be little hope of progress. Thank you all for your consideration of this matter Total Wealth reset for all? All wealth Asset or liquid goes away (aside from things that can only be gained through salvage like Officer weapons) and nothing else gets changed (except for the broken mechanics that allowed the farming to happen). Kiss Biomass Isk farm Isk goodbye Kiss Farmville Isk goodbye Everyone gets a fresh start back to a 0 Wallet balance while retaining their SP, I think that would solve a lot of the problem. Just don't do it until you've fixed the Farmville stupidity and improved NPE while taking away the starting Isk. Kill PC and reclaim all wealth it has generated before it damages the game even further Closed Beta Bittervet Bomber
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5670	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:50:00 - [34] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: You have a weird interpretation of the word "practical"... Did you perhaps by accident look it up in the antonym thesaurus? Please, explain how my suggestion is impractical. Also: Quote: Quote: Quote: (of an idea, plan, or method) likely to succeed or be effective in real circumstances; feasible. suitable for a particular purpose. so nearly the case that it can be regarded as so; virtual. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5670	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:52:00 - [35] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Total Wealth reset for all? All wealth Asset or liquid goes away (aside from things that can only be gained through salvage like Officer weapons) and nothing else gets changed (except for the broken mechanics that allowed the farming to happen). Kiss Biomass Isk farm Isk goodbye Kiss Farmville Isk goodbye Everyone gets a fresh start back to a 0 Wallet balance while retaining their SP, I think that would solve a lot of the problem. Just don't do it until you've fixed the Farmville stupidity and improved NPE while taking away the starting Isk. But that would punish those who were wise with their ISK, and earned it legitimately. There's a much better way. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7351	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:58:00 - [36] - Quote Atiim wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Total Wealth reset for all? All wealth Asset or liquid goes away (aside from things that can only be gained through salvage like Officer weapons) and nothing else gets changed (except for the broken mechanics that allowed the farming to happen). Kiss Biomass Isk farm Isk goodbye Kiss Farmville Isk goodbye Everyone gets a fresh start back to a 0 Wallet balance while retaining their SP, I think that would solve a lot of the problem. Just don't do it until you've fixed the Farmville stupidity and improved NPE while taking away the starting Isk. But that would punish those who were wise with their ISK, and earned it legitimately. There's a much better way. Agree. CCP needs the punishment to be selective, not broad. I earned my 20 million ISK fair and square and I will be royally pissed off beyond all control if I were to lose that because some greedy ass bastards decided to exploit the system and I had nothing to do with it. It's unfair. Besides, CCP knows who did this. They have the data and so does Chribba. They have the names and the money trail. Just punish these alt-recycling farmers like how they punish RMTers and Bot users in Eve Online. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1817	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:00:00 - [37] - Quote Atiim wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Total Wealth reset for all? All wealth Asset or liquid goes away (aside from things that can only be gained through salvage like Officer weapons) and nothing else gets changed (except for the broken mechanics that allowed the farming to happen). Kiss Biomass Isk farm Isk goodbye Kiss Farmville Isk goodbye Everyone gets a fresh start back to a 0 Wallet balance while retaining their SP, I think that would solve a lot of the problem. Just don't do it until you've fixed the Farmville stupidity and improved NPE while taking away the starting Isk. But that would punish those who were wise with their ISK, and earned it legitimately. There's a much better way. IDK, I still like the idea I proposed a few weeks back. Reset everyone's Isk back to 0. For everyday you've been here since the start of Open Beta, you get 1m Isk. For every month you've been here since the start of Open Beta, you get 10m Isk. For each iteration of Uprising you've been here for, you get 25m Isk. If you were here for Uprising 1.0, you get 100m. If you were here for the first day of Open Beta, you get 250m. Only applies to characters who've been active for at least 10 battles over the past two weeks. Kill PC and reclaim all wealth it has generated before it damages the game even further Closed Beta Bittervet Bomber
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 113	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:07:00 - [38] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Total Wealth reset for all? All wealth Asset or liquid goes away (aside from things that can only be gained through salvage like Officer weapons) and nothing else gets changed (except for the broken mechanics that allowed the farming to happen). Kiss Biomass Isk farm Isk goodbye Kiss Farmville Isk goodbye Everyone gets a fresh start back to a 0 Wallet balance while retaining their SP, I think that would solve a lot of the problem. Just don't do it until you've fixed the Farmville stupidity and improved NPE while taking away the starting Isk. WaitGÇª what? Because some people abuse a system, all should be punished? No, this most certainly is not a solution to this problem. While I think PC farming is ridiculous, it is CCPGÇÖs responsibility to fix it. They created a game mode that a small portion of the player base can exploit and they should have fixed the issue as soon as the problem became apparent. If locking the whole PC was the only solution, then they should have done just that. Biomassing characters in a large scale to gain ISK is different, even if itGÇÖs similarly abusing the system. This is not a system created by CCP but made possible by Sony. Sony allows several different PSNGÇÖs on one console and that is the only reason this is even possible to do. It wouldnGÇÖt be a practical way of making ISK if you could only work with two characters at a time because you could only make 500K a day. .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7351	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:09:00 - [39] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Atiim wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Total Wealth reset for all? All wealth Asset or liquid goes away (aside from things that can only be gained through salvage like Officer weapons) and nothing else gets changed (except for the broken mechanics that allowed the farming to happen). Kiss Biomass Isk farm Isk goodbye Kiss Farmville Isk goodbye Everyone gets a fresh start back to a 0 Wallet balance while retaining their SP, I think that would solve a lot of the problem. Just don't do it until you've fixed the Farmville stupidity and improved NPE while taking away the starting Isk. But that would punish those who were wise with their ISK, and earned it legitimately. There's a much better way. IDK, I still like the idea I proposed a few weeks back. Reset everyone's Isk back to 0. For everyday you've been here since the start of Open Beta, you get 1m Isk. For every month you've been here since the start of Open Beta, you get 10m Isk. For each iteration of Uprising you've been here for, you get 25m Isk. If you were here for Uprising 1.0, you get 100m. If you were here for the first day of Open Beta, you get 250m. Only applies to characters who've been active for at least 10 battles over the past two weeks. I don't ever see this happening. Besides, this will probably generate far more ISK than the alt-recycling method and cause even more problems. On top of that, it will just give me FREE ISK which I didn't earn. I have 20 Million ISK and your numbers will just give me an extra 230 million which I don't deserve. And that's just for me alone. Let's not forget the number of characters in existence. Even if only 10,000 characters are selected, that will equal 2.3 Trillion ISK injected into the economy without player involvement which is a very bad idea. CCP's economic adviser will never allow it. Period. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2974	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:09:00 - [40] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Atiim wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Total Wealth reset for all? All wealth Asset or liquid goes away (aside from things that can only be gained through salvage like Officer weapons) and nothing else gets changed (except for the broken mechanics that allowed the farming to happen). Kiss Biomass Isk farm Isk goodbye Kiss Farmville Isk goodbye Everyone gets a fresh start back to a 0 Wallet balance while retaining their SP, I think that would solve a lot of the problem. Just don't do it until you've fixed the Farmville stupidity and improved NPE while taking away the starting Isk. But that would punish those who were wise with their ISK, and earned it legitimately. There's a much better way. Agree. CCP needs the punishment to be selective, not broad. I earned my 20 million ISK fair and square and I will be royally pissed off beyond all control if I were to lose that because some greedy ass bastards decided to exploit the system and I had nothing to do with it. It's unfair. Besides, CCP knows who did this. They have the data and so does Chribba. They have the names and the money trail. Just punish these alt-recycling farmers like how they punish RMTers and Bot users in Eve Online. All my 440mil was hard earned Intelligence is OP

CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1023	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:12:00 - [41] - Quote It doesn't surprise me. I have heard from people I play with about this. What is surprising however is the amount of isk some people are making doing this. It worries me, I wonder what the actual NEW PLAYER amount is per day? Possibly only a % of that number. Join our public channel - ACME SPECIAL FORCES PUB ZERG EVENT 1MILLION CLONES! LETS DO THIS
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7351	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:19:00 - [42] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: It doesn't surprise me. I have heard from people I play with about this. What is surprising however is the amount of isk some people are making doing this. It worries me, I wonder what the actual NEW PLAYER amount is per day? Possibly only a % of that number. We have to punish those people quickly and hard. Ban their accounts and confiscate their ISK and assets involved no more than a day before or after fixing the exploit. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Proto Annihilator Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 72	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:20:00 - [43] - Quote How about they just make the game more profitable than the exploits. You will always have exploits in New Eden. It's half of the game. It seems that they did put a 10 hour wait on this to discourage free isk.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12223	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:21:00 - [44] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Atiim wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Total Wealth reset for all? All wealth Asset or liquid goes away (aside from things that can only be gained through salvage like Officer weapons) and nothing else gets changed (except for the broken mechanics that allowed the farming to happen). Kiss Biomass Isk farm Isk goodbye Kiss Farmville Isk goodbye Everyone gets a fresh start back to a 0 Wallet balance while retaining their SP, I think that would solve a lot of the problem. Just don't do it until you've fixed the Farmville stupidity and improved NPE while taking away the starting Isk. But that would punish those who were wise with their ISK, and earned it legitimately. There's a much better way. IDK, I still like the idea I proposed a few weeks back. Reset everyone's Isk back to 0. For everyday you've been here since the start of Open Beta, you get 1m Isk. For every month you've been here since the start of Open Beta, you get 10m Isk. For each iteration of Uprising you've been here for, you get 25m Isk. If you were here for Uprising 1.0, you get 100m. If you were here for the first day of Open Beta, you get 250m. Only applies to characters who've been active for at least 10 battles over the past two weeks. I'm not sure why it's such a big deal honestly. If you haven't been exploiting the system, you have nothing to worry about. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7351	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:24:00 - [45] - Quote Proto Annihilator wrote: How about they just make the game more profitable than the exploits. You will always have exploits in New Eden. It's half of the game. It seems that they did put a 10 hour wait on this to discourage free isk. Why not do both? Make playing the game more profitable while getting rid of the exploits? Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1817	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:27:00 - [46] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Atiim wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Total Wealth reset for all? All wealth Asset or liquid goes away (aside from things that can only be gained through salvage like Officer weapons) and nothing else gets changed (except for the broken mechanics that allowed the farming to happen). Kiss Biomass Isk farm Isk goodbye Kiss Farmville Isk goodbye Everyone gets a fresh start back to a 0 Wallet balance while retaining their SP, I think that would solve a lot of the problem. Just don't do it until you've fixed the Farmville stupidity and improved NPE while taking away the starting Isk. But that would punish those who were wise with their ISK, and earned it legitimately. There's a much better way. IDK, I still like the idea I proposed a few weeks back. Reset everyone's Isk back to 0. For everyday you've been here since the start of Open Beta, you get 1m Isk. For every month you've been here since the start of Open Beta, you get 10m Isk. For each iteration of Uprising you've been here for, you get 25m Isk. If you were here for Uprising 1.0, you get 100m. If you were here for the first day of Open Beta, you get 250m. Only applies to characters who've been active for at least 10 battles over the past two weeks. I'm not sure why it's such a big deal honestly. If you haven't been exploiting the system, you have nothing to worry about. Aside from being financially crushed by the farmers who've been exploiting PC since day one. Kill PC and reclaim all wealth it has generated before it damages the game even further Closed Beta Bittervet Bomber
DootDoot Da Short Buss 244	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:28:00 - [47] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: DootDoot wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: howard sanchez wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Oh so thats what thread was about I know someone who currently recycles about 30charas on 10 PSN accounts, i think he spends more time doing that than playing the game Mr Kashuken, Would you agree with the article's author that this kind of behavior, when practiced by many players, could contribute to substantial economic and gameplay imbalance for DUST and, eventually EVE? CCP, anything to add? [CCP]Saberwing said they're looking into it. They can easily track everyone who's done it, so hopefully they reverse the ISK and hand out bans. Fixing the issue should be fairly simple. CCP just needs to take a hard stance on this kind of behavior and start handing out public bans... These players are maliciously trying to cheat the entire game at the expense of a new to DUST player starting with a measly 250k. Taking advantage of terrible game mechanics is on CCP head for blame... Turbo Controllers, Sprint, Melee, Sprint.. Equipment spam... etc... But taking advantage of the character creation process and the new player creation process is straight up with malicious intent. This character recycling can only be done because of the way CCP designed the character creation process so why isn't this also on their head? Conversely, why isn't all of this **** on the head of the person who is perpetrating it? I just think it is funny that it is apparently perfectly alright to use Turbo controllers, Sprint/Melee/Sprint etc, though someone who is doing something to create profit for themselves without directly harming anyone else is "malicious intent". Oh, you, double standards, you'll never cease to amaze me. IMHO, Biomass Isk farms and Molden Heath Farmville are no different than one another. Actually, IMHO, MH Farmville is worse if you ask me since they are actively denying portions of the playerbase from participating in their little circlejerk. Anyone can biomass Isk farm without kissing ass or fellating some tin god, the same cannot be said of PC Farmville. Maybe you missed directly where it says this is against the game rules. It states this clearly. All those other things where never mentioned or even understood that they where around by CCP until players mentioned. CCP knew this could happen and clearly wrote down a set of rules about it. Ignorance isn't an excuse.
Proto Annihilator Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 72	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:34:00 - [48] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Proto Annihilator wrote: How about they just make the game more profitable than the exploits. You will always have exploits in New Eden. It's half of the game. It seems that they did put a 10 hour wait on this to discourage free isk. Why not do both? Make playing the game more profitable while getting rid of the exploits? CCP doesn't think the same way we do. something that passes their brainstorm and think tanks is circumvented by the community before it even hits the servers. Everyone already has their plans to lock districts and profit if they need to. CCP made it harder to do but not airtight. some things they cant fix or it takes more effort than its worth. Lets say you had 10 alts and used 2 slots on each alt for isk farming. How long would it take to get 100,000,000? how much time would you spend doing it a day? Wouldn't finding a name be hard? Would it be more profitable to run ambush in bpo?To most people its a waste of time. There are some who have nothing but time.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12223	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:46:00 - [49] - Quote Proto Annihilator wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Proto Annihilator wrote: How about they just make the game more profitable than the exploits. You will always have exploits in New Eden. It's half of the game. It seems that they did put a 10 hour wait on this to discourage free isk. Why not do both? Make playing the game more profitable while getting rid of the exploits? CCP doesn't think the same way we do. something that passes their brainstorm and think tanks is circumvented by the community before it even hits the servers. Everyone already has their plans to lock districts and profit if they need to. CCP made it harder to do but not airtight. some things they cant fix or it takes more effort than its worth. Lets say you had 10 alts and used 2 slots on each alt for isk farming. How long would it take to get 100,000,000? how much time would you spend doing it a day? Wouldn't finding a name be hard? Would it be more profitable to run ambush in bpo?To most people its a waste of time. There are some who have nothing but time. You can earn SIGNIFICANTLY more ISK this way than any other method currently in game. It's an exploit, period. CCP is looking at it, and at best, those doing this can expect their ISK farm to be shut down, at worst they can kiss all that ISK and possibly their accounts goodbye. The only way we fix the game is by constantly highlighting these issues and continuously pushing the importance of fixing them to CCP. It may take a while, but progress is made. I for one hope the punishment is swift and harsh, but it probably won't be. ::grabs popcorn:: Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2975	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:53:00 - [50] - Quote Proto Annihilator wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Proto Annihilator wrote: How about they just make the game more profitable than the exploits. You will always have exploits in New Eden. It's half of the game. It seems that they did put a 10 hour wait on this to discourage free isk. Why not do both? Make playing the game more profitable while getting rid of the exploits? CCP doesn't think the same way we do. something that passes their brainstorm and think tanks is circumvented by the community before it even hits the servers. Everyone already has their plans to lock districts and profit if they need to. CCP made it harder to do but not airtight. some things they cant fix or it takes more effort than its worth. Lets say you had 10 alts and used 2 slots on each alt for isk farming. How long would it take to get 100,000,000? how much time would you spend doing it a day? Wouldn't finding a name be hard? Would it be more profitable to run ambush in bpo?To most people its a waste of time. There are some who have nothing but time. Follow the ISK It leaves a trail that CCP can easily see Intelligence is OP

Proto Annihilator Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 72	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:56:00 - [51] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Proto Annihilator wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Proto Annihilator wrote: How about they just make the game more profitable than the exploits. You will always have exploits in New Eden. It's half of the game. It seems that they did put a 10 hour wait on this to discourage free isk. Why not do both? Make playing the game more profitable while getting rid of the exploits? CCP doesn't think the same way we do. something that passes their brainstorm and think tanks is circumvented by the community before it even hits the servers. Everyone already has their plans to lock districts and profit if they need to. CCP made it harder to do but not airtight. some things they cant fix or it takes more effort than its worth. Lets say you had 10 alts and used 2 slots on each alt for isk farming. How long would it take to get 100,000,000? how much time would you spend doing it a day? Wouldn't finding a name be hard? Would it be more profitable to run ambush in bpo?To most people its a waste of time. There are some who have nothing but time. You can earn SIGNIFICANTLY more ISK this way than any other method currently in game. It's an exploit, period. CCP is looking at it, and at best, those doing this can expect their ISK farm to be shut down, at worst they can kiss all that ISK and possibly their accounts goodbye. The only way we fix the game is by constantly highlighting these issues and continuously pushing the importance of fixing them to CCP. It may take a while, but progress is made. I for one hope the punishment is swift and harsh, but it probably won't be. ::grabs popcorn:: So you are saying this is worth doing? How much can I make each day? How Many hours will I spend each day "earning" my isk using this method?
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12224	Posted - 2014.03.13 19:58:00 - [52] - Quote Proto Annihilator wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Proto Annihilator wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Proto Annihilator wrote: How about they just make the game more profitable than the exploits. You will always have exploits in New Eden. It's half of the game. It seems that they did put a 10 hour wait on this to discourage free isk. Why not do both? Make playing the game more profitable while getting rid of the exploits? CCP doesn't think the same way we do. something that passes their brainstorm and think tanks is circumvented by the community before it even hits the servers. Everyone already has their plans to lock districts and profit if they need to. CCP made it harder to do but not airtight. some things they cant fix or it takes more effort than its worth. Lets say you had 10 alts and used 2 slots on each alt for isk farming. How long would it take to get 100,000,000? how much time would you spend doing it a day? Wouldn't finding a name be hard? Would it be more profitable to run ambush in bpo?To most people its a waste of time. There are some who have nothing but time. You can earn SIGNIFICANTLY more ISK this way than any other method currently in game. It's an exploit, period. CCP is looking at it, and at best, those doing this can expect their ISK farm to be shut down, at worst they can kiss all that ISK and possibly their accounts goodbye. The only way we fix the game is by constantly highlighting these issues and continuously pushing the importance of fixing them to CCP. It may take a while, but progress is made. I for one hope the punishment is swift and harsh, but it probably won't be. ::grabs popcorn:: So you are saying this is worth doing? How much can I make each day? How Many hours will I spend each day "earning" my isk using this method? Each account nets you 1.5 milliion ISK per day per 5-6 minutes, so it's just up to you how much time you want to put into it. Also, all the ISK is tracked, so do try to be sly about it. ::continues eating popcorn:: Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Proto Annihilator Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 72	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:03:00 - [53] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Each account nets you 1.5 milliion ISK per day per 5-6 minutes, so it's just up to you how much time you want to put into it. Also, all the ISK is tracked, so do try to be sly about it. ::continues eating popcorn:: Why isn't everyone doing this? There has to be a catch.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 466	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:09:00 - [54] - Quote Am I the only one that read the line "CCP has already shown with their band aid to Planetary Conquest that they can be swift and thorough" and just lol'ed... Otherwise, nice write-up. xSivartx is my Heavy. There are many like him, but he is my own... So, other Logi's back off, those are my Warpoints!
Proto Annihilator Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 73	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:10:00 - [55] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Am I the only one that read the line "CCP has already shown with their band aid to Planetary Conquest that they can be swift and thorough" and just lol... Otherwise, nice write-up. I lold there too.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 121	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:19:00 - [56] - Quote Ace Starburst wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: The easiest (and safe) way would be to block ISK transfer below a minimum wallet balance of 250,000 ISK. (I.e a character with 1mil ISK can maximum transfer 750,000, always leaving 250,000 left in the wallet.) That way a newborn can only transfer what they actually earn in battle, and gives an extra safety net against (accidentally) empty you wallet in a transfer. That would solve the initial problem, but unless some other function was created they would be able transfer that initial 250K into items and then possibly transfer those to another character to then make a profit off of. I don't believe we will ever have item transfer, only ISK. (That is what the future player market is for) My suggestion also don't earmark the initial 250,000 ISK in any way, it just puts a minimum (remaining) limit in the wallet for all players, old and new. Clarification: I don't advocate a minimum limit of 250,000 ISK in general, only with transfers. You should still be able to go to 0 ISK if you buy stuff. If you then want to transfer ISK you first need to go above 250,000, and then only transfer what goes beyond that.
howard sanchez Sanchez Cartage llc 870	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:22:00 - [57] - Quote While I applaud ccp's astounding work ethic ( just so damn busy coding your fingers off you don't have time to reply to every whine post we come up with) I am concerned that thier continued silence on this ( and a plethora of other worthy issues) will continue to degrade the community's unswerving faith in thier commitment to excellent service and product development. On another front, I was reading some very good articles yesterday coming out of SXSW about the monetization and sustainability of F2P games. How's that going, CCP?
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7352	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:23:00 - [58] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Ace Starburst wrote: Regis Blackbird wrote: The easiest (and safe) way would be to block ISK transfer below a minimum wallet balance of 250,000 ISK. (I.e a character with 1mil ISK can maximum transfer 750,000, always leaving 250,000 left in the wallet.) That way a newborn can only transfer what they actually earn in battle, and gives an extra safety net against (accidentally) empty you wallet in a transfer. That would solve the initial problem, but unless some other function was created they would be able transfer that initial 250K into items and then possibly transfer those to another character to then make a profit off of. I don't believe we will ever have item transfer, only ISK. (That is what the future player market is for) My suggestion also don't earmark the initial 250,000 ISK in any way, it just puts a minimum (remaining) limit in the wallet for all players, old and new. Eve Online allows direct item transfers via Item Exchange Contract or P2P trade windows. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Johnny Guilt Algintal Core 577	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:25:00 - [59] - Quote Freaking OCD players are going to break the game,this wasn't a problem in BETA when your made your character having no money on him, he had everything he needed to start from the get go(paid skill books and starterfits) from picking this role and specialization(enforcer,arbitors etc..). I blame CCP lack of supervision on the NPE for this...look what happens when you dont actally help newplayers, LOOK! A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1817	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:25:00 - [60] - Quote @dootdoot I am unaware of CCP specifically stating that, care to link it? Regardless, I still find the double standard amusing. Kill PC and reclaim all wealth it has generated before it damages the game even further Closed Beta Bittervet Bomber

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7352	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:25:00 - [61] - Quote Proto Annihilator wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Each account nets you 1.5 milliion ISK per day per 5-6 minutes, so it's just up to you how much time you want to put into it. Also, all the ISK is tracked, so do try to be sly about it. ::continues eating popcorn:: Why isn't everyone doing this? There has to be a catch. The catch is that if you get caught you suffer a ban, your ISK gets taken away from you and, if you spent that exploited ISK on assets, your assets will get taken as well. It's not worth it. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Proto Annihilator Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 74	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:29:00 - [62] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Proto Annihilator wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Each account nets you 1.5 milliion ISK per day per 5-6 minutes, so it's just up to you how much time you want to put into it. Also, all the ISK is tracked, so do try to be sly about it. ::continues eating popcorn:: Why isn't everyone doing this? There has to be a catch. The catch is that if you get caught you suffer a ban, your ISK gets taken away from you and, if you spent that exploited ISK on assets, your assets will get taken as well. It's not worth it. Did it happen to you?
Viktor Hadah Jr Critical-Impact 3005	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:32:00 - [63] - Quote Is this breaking news? Really is this something that has been kept in the dark for so long? Selling Templar BPO's 250Mil Last of the BPO's(Click link) I feed off your tears
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 121	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:35:00 - [64] - Quote I believe it's CCP policy to never respond openly regarding game exploits, so good luck getting a blue tag.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 2035	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:38:00 - [65] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Oh so thats what thread was about I know someone who currently recycles about 30charas on 10 PSN accounts, i think he spends more time doing that than playing the game Mr Kashuken, Would you agree with the article's author that this kind of behavior, when practiced by many players, could contribute to substantial economic and gameplay imbalance for DUST and, eventually EVE? CCP, anything to add? It's not going to affect Eve. The ISK in Eve as compared to Dust is astronomical. even 10 million ISK a day isn't a big deal (at all) in Eve.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7352	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:39:00 - [66] - Quote Proto Annihilator wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Proto Annihilator wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Each account nets you 1.5 milliion ISK per day per 5-6 minutes, so it's just up to you how much time you want to put into it. Also, all the ISK is tracked, so do try to be sly about it. ::continues eating popcorn:: Why isn't everyone doing this? There has to be a catch. The catch is that if you get caught you suffer a ban, your ISK gets taken away from you and, if you spent that exploited ISK on assets, your assets will get taken as well. It's not worth it. Did it happen to you? No, because I never dared to try it. I'm not like "THAT GUY" who goes out of his way to do everything illegal just to progress. I play fair and square and I earned my 20 million ISK honestly by actually playing. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Proto Annihilator Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 75	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:41:00 - [67] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Proto Annihilator wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: Proto Annihilator wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Each account nets you 1.5 milliion ISK per day per 5-6 minutes, so it's just up to you how much time you want to put into it. Also, all the ISK is tracked, so do try to be sly about it. ::continues eating popcorn:: Why isn't everyone doing this? There has to be a catch. The catch is that if you get caught you suffer a ban, your ISK gets taken away from you and, if you spent that exploited ISK on assets, your assets will get taken as well. It's not worth it. Did it happen to you? No, because I never dared to try it. I'm not like "THAT GUY" who goes out of his way to do everything illegal just to progress. I play fair and square and I earned my 20 million ISK honestly by actually playing. Dust fiend earns that in just over an hour farming alts.
Kigurosaka Laaksonen DUST University Ivy League 619	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:54:00 - [68] - Quote DUST 514 Recruit Code - https://dust514.com/recruit/zluCyb/ EVE Buddy Invite - Too damn long. Ask me for it.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 13380	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:55:00 - [69] - Quote CCP is aware. Good luck hiding. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Caldari Assault // Unlocked
Buster Friently Rosen Association 2036	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:57:00 - [70] - Quote If I was a conspiracy theorist, I'd suggest that among the reasons that this "loophole" exists, as well as the PC locking issue, is that CCP would like Dust players to build up an ISK pile that is not inconsequential relative to Eve so that once there actually is some market integration Dust won't be completely destabilized by Eve ISK. ..but I'm not a conspiracy theorist

Villanor Aquarius WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 147	Posted - 2014.03.13 21:00:00 - [71] - Quote Eve has a tutorial system where you do learning missions and rewards are meager amounts of isk and the skillbooks that every newbie needs. Implementing a more guided, use this feature in the next match type tutorial where early useful skillbooks are paid out as "salvage" rewards or whatever would be good. Thus new characters could come with much less isk, and still grow quickly and effectively through active play. Also this gives new players more guidance as they start the game.
Beld Errmon Nyain Chan 1425	Posted - 2014.03.13 21:08:00 - [72] - Quote I doubt they'll ban anyone that hasn't been warned before, but lots of negative wallets... yeah that will be both funny and well earned.
SPESHULz The Southern Legion 29	Posted - 2014.03.14 09:24:00 - [73] - Quote It seems like the stats in the article are assuming all new characters are doing this. I have started a couple alts and going through the academy there is always at least 1 or 2 full BA doms running on each sever 32x3 servers is more then 96 new players online. There are also a lot of random letter number names running around in BA and pubs. Lord High Commander Maths is OP. It is all those numbers flying around that kills you. Forum Warrior lvl 0.02
The Headless Horseman Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 47	Posted - 2014.03.14 12:30:00 - [74] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: I believe it's CCP policy to never respond openly regarding game exploits, so good luck getting a blue tag. Oh, a blue tag WILL be here. Unless he uses his ninja hammer. Signed, Sealed, Delivered
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1787	Posted - 2014.03.14 13:51:00 - [75] - Quote CCP has to have been aware of this from the very beginning. In beta and at launch they would have been watching these numbers and many more we don't have access to like a hawk. The current state of affairs exists because at some level ignoring this practice is in CCP's best interest - or has been up until now. I support SP rollover.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2135	Posted - 2014.03.14 13:57:00 - [76] - Quote SPESHULz wrote: It seems like the stats in the article are assuming all new characters are doing this. I have started a couple alts and going through the academy there is always at least 1 or 2 full BA doms running on each sever 32x3 servers is more then 96 new players online. There are also a lot of random letter number names running around in BA and pubs. the thing is with the proper soloution implemented it really doesn't matter who is doing it or not, you can stop the people doing it without ever effecting any other new player experience.
Hoover Damn H.A.R.V.E.S.T. Legacy Rising 68	Posted - 2014.03.14 13:59:00 - [77] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Whatever happens I hope they take a firm stance on this, perma ban the offenders and revert as much of the ISK as possible. Banning would make reverting the ISK pointless. Unless you mean a temp ban.
howard sanchez Sanchez Cartage llc 870	Posted - 2014.03.14 14:25:00 - [78] - Quote As some have mentioned CCP often doesn't make public statements regarding exploits. The fact that CCP shanghai rarely makes public statements in general notwithstanding I was pleased to see response to this thread by a CPM0 member stating that "CCP is aware" Good enough for me. Our representatives to CCP have stated that developers are aware of this game imbalancing behavior. Thanks IWS, if CCP won't acknowledge that this is really happening and that they will fix it, I am relieved to hear such from the CPM
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 1793	Posted - 2014.03.14 14:33:00 - [79] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: As some have mentioned CCP often doesn't make public statements regarding exploits. The fact that CCP shanghai rarely makes public statements in general notwithstanding I was pleased to see response to this thread by a CPM0 member stating that "CCP is aware" Good enough for me. Our representatives to CCP have stated that developers are aware of this game imbalancing behavior. Thanks IWS, if CCP won't acknowledge that this is really happening and that they will fix it, I am relieved to hear such from the CPM Well said. This is a perfect example of the CPM performing in its intended role - it's issues like this where the playerbase genuinely needs the CPM to represent our interests to CCP. I support SP rollover.
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 207	Posted - 2014.03.14 14:39:00 - [80] - Quote Huh. I didn't actually know this was a banable offence. Done it a few times myself (Probably about 5-6 times total) but wasn't aware that it was against the rules. Guess this means no more academy matches. A few Isk sure isn't worth my account. Nova Knives are OP! Nerf em before you lose all your proto suits!

howard sanchez Sanchez Cartage llc 871	Posted - 2014.03.14 14:48:00 - [81] - Quote Crimson ShieId wrote: Huh. I didn't actually know this was a banable offence. Done it a few times myself (Probably about 5-6 times total) but wasn't aware that it was against the rules. Guess this means no more academy matches. A few Isk sure isn't worth my account. Playbase seems to be getting ahead of itself when everyone wants to post recommendations for a solution at this point. Put the pitchforks and torches away you clones! First step is to get recognition from the company that this news article (op) is factual enough to warrant action. What that action is should be up to CCP. I was posting this thread to 1) raise playerbase awareness of the potential issue and 2) pressure CCP into publically ( on these forums anyway) acknowledging and committing to act CPM0 has stated that the company is aware of the problem and will likely act CCP Shanghai continues to limit developer ( and executive producer) interaction with the community so a lack of blue response is not surprising. I once again thank the CPM for filling that gap and I look forward future action that will enhance fair play and economic balance that is crucial to DUST's success
Sum1ne Else WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 1006	Posted - 2014.03.14 15:10:00 - [82] - Quote Yup, its a way of making ISK because there is no ISK reward in this game. When you have 30m SP and only 40m ISK; therefore not able to run proto gear or use any of the items I have skilled into its hard not to do this. I have never done this because Im not like that. But when you see corps who only run proto gear in games because of their ISK generating planetary conquest exploit and have billions of ISK in the corp wallet (and have been exploiting in this way since November 2012) I cannot blame the guys that do this. For me its too time consuming. I have posted numerous times about money making in this game > the response 'run STD gear' > die 10x thats 200k, run ADV gear > die 5x thats 250k, run proto gear > die 3x thats 500k. Every game on AVG gets you 200k -250k. The math just doesnt add up to me. Im just an AVG player, mostly logi (but that gets expensive). I ask myself how do these guys run proto all day long die 5-10 times and still come out on top? I guess its money exploits like this. It would be nice for CCP to incorporate games based on meta level of suits, or win a game double isk. I see guys padding KDR, not really caring about winning and its just stupid. WL/R should be considered higher than KD/R in my opinion. A solution maybe to register an email online to make the ALT, and 2 extra slots and not be able to transfer money until they have got 5000 wp or something. Level 1 Forum Warrior! Its a leopleuradon Charlie a magical leoplueradon, its gunna guide our way to candy mountain!
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12240	Posted - 2014.03.14 15:15:00 - [83] - Quote Proto Annihilator wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: No, because I never dared to try it. I'm not like "THAT GUY" who goes out of his way to do everything illegal just to progress. I play fair and square and I earned my 20 million ISK honestly by actually playing. Dust fiend earns that in just over an hour farming alts. Just because I'm aware doesn't mean I'm involved. I for one would love a print up of my characters life transactions, not only is my ISK all legit, non scam ISK, so are all my likes. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Toro Navajo Defenders of the Helghast Dream Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 52	Posted - 2014.03.14 21:58:00 - [84] - Quote Bump


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