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howard sanchez Sanchez Cartage llc 868	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:49:00 - [1] - Quote http://evenews24.com/2014/03/12/way-of-the-mercenary-recycling/ Care to comment, CCP?
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 1679	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:56:00 - [2] - Quote Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. Drop it like its hat.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2967	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:59:00 - [3] - Quote Oh so thats what thread was about I know someone who currently recycles about 30charas on 10 PSN accounts, i think he spends more time doing that than playing the game Intelligence is OP
howard sanchez Sanchez Cartage llc 868	Posted - 2014.03.13 15:59:00 - [4] - Quote I agree there are a lot of fixes that could be applied. Some easy some effective some not so much But the first step to improving the product is recognizing the need to fix it Care to comment, CCP?
howard sanchez Sanchez Cartage llc 868	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:02:00 - [5] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Oh so thats what thread was about I know someone who currently recycles about 30charas on 10 PSN accounts, i think he spends more time doing that than playing the game Mr Kashuken, Would you agree with the article's author that this kind of behavior, when practiced by many players, could contribute to substantial economic and gameplay imbalance for DUST and, eventually EVE? CCP, anything to add?
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 2967	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:10:00 - [6] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Oh so thats what thread was about I know someone who currently recycles about 30charas on 10 PSN accounts, i think he spends more time doing that than playing the game Mr Kashuken, Would you agree with the article's author that this kind of behavior, when practiced by many players, could contribute to substantial economic and gameplay imbalance for DUST and, eventually EVE? CCP, anything to add? Gameplay imbalance? lolno they are not playing the game Economic imbalance? Meh, they say my BPO ruin the economy but at least i play the game but i dont buy it anyways since proto is too cheap, PC is farmville 250k is nothing really, all they have to do is make it so no isk for you and you have to play game to get isk Intelligence is OP
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12218	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:11:00 - [7] - Quote howard sanchez wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Oh so thats what thread was about I know someone who currently recycles about 30charas on 10 PSN accounts, i think he spends more time doing that than playing the game Mr Kashuken, Would you agree with the article's author that this kind of behavior, when practiced by many players, could contribute to substantial economic and gameplay imbalance for DUST and, eventually EVE? CCP, anything to add? [CCP]Saberwing said they're looking into it. They can easily track everyone who's done it, so hopefully they reverse the ISK and hand out bans. Fixing the issue should be fairly simple. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
DootDoot Da Short Buss 238	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:28:00 - [8] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: howard sanchez wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Oh so thats what thread was about I know someone who currently recycles about 30charas on 10 PSN accounts, i think he spends more time doing that than playing the game Mr Kashuken, Would you agree with the article's author that this kind of behavior, when practiced by many players, could contribute to substantial economic and gameplay imbalance for DUST and, eventually EVE? CCP, anything to add? [CCP]Saberwing said they're looking into it. They can easily track everyone who's done it, so hopefully they reverse the ISK and hand out bans. Fixing the issue should be fairly simple. CCP just needs to take a hard stance on this kind of behavior and start handing out public bans... These players are maliciously trying to cheat the entire game at the expense of a new to DUST player starting with a measly 250k. Taking advantage of terrible game mechanics is on CCP head for blame... Turbo Controllers, Sprint, Melee, Sprint.. Equipment spam... etc... But taking advantage of the character creation process and the new player creation process is straight up with malicious intent.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7347	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:33:00 - [9] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. On your first point, I doubt CCP would let something like this sit for that long considering the grave impact this has on the future economy. Generating ISK by means of recycling characters rather than just actually playing the game is a major game-breaking exploit that needs to be fixed pronto. Eve Online seems to get it right at least where new characters are concerned. In Eve, your characters starts off with only a bare-bones 5,000 ISK as an inheritance and biomass time is at least 24 hours long. Of course, a while after thinking of this concept, there is the PlayStation Network's nature to consider here. It's extremely easy to create new accounts without having to worry about the size of your wallet. So the PSN alone makes it far too easy to circumvent the 5,000 ISK and 24 hour limit. That said, there can only be one possible solution now after thinking deeply about it. REMOVE ALL STARTER ISK UPON CREATING A NEW CHARACTER. NO EXCEPTIONS. Some people will point out that this idea is not fair for the new player who will have to later on invest some ISK for purchasing skill books and gear from the market in order to progress. But that excuse is not a valid excuse and here is why. Every character that is created comes complete with a set of starter suits with starter gear. This is the Dust equivalent of the Eve Online rookie ships which are free every time you dock up in a station in a pod and the station you dock in doesn't have any of your ships. The rookie ships themselves also come with a civilian mining laser for some profit making and a civilian turret for self defense. Just like the Eve rookie ships, those Dust starter suits have everything you need. All you have to do is grind a couple of matches and you get enough ISK to get a new skill book if you have to without having to worry about replenishing your stock. They are just like the BPOs only with certain limitations but even then you're not losing anything when you die in these suits. Some people will say that starter fits are useless. That is not true and here is why. Here we look to Eve Online's rookie ships as an example. During the time of Hulkageddon, a New Eden pass time where mining ships in high-sec space are suicide ganked as a major blood sport for bragging rights and rewards, there were fleets known as "The Fleet of a Thousand Ibises" where literally a fleet of a thousand Ibises fitted only with one turret was enough to suicide gank even a Hulk (the strongest exhumer-class mining ship of its time) back then and still make a profit from the wreck they created on top of the rewards they got with only the cost of one decent turret and the equivalent of a damage mod. This same fleet composition was also sometimes used in null-sec roams and are able to take down destroyers, cruisers, and even battlecruisers and maybe a battleship. Think of an ant pile swarming an intruder and each of those ants happen to be fire ants. Have you ever been bitten by a swarm of fire ants? It ain't fun and you'll just have a bad day despite the fact that you are hundreds of times bigger than they are. So a well-trained and organized squad of starter suits will just mop the floor with the blood of proto suits any day. So if you only have starter fits and you're still broke, just join a corp that will help you learn how to fight effectively with what little you have. So there. There is NO excuse anymore for having the starter ISK for new characters. Just remove the starter ISK in general and we're all good and gravy. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5662	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:39:00 - [10] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. But then they wouldn't be able to experiment with the MLT items whilist inside the Battle Academy. The practical approach, would be to make the 250k ISK non-transferable. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7349	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:43:00 - [11] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. But then they wouldn't be able to experiment with the MLT items whilist inside the Battle Academy. The practical approach, would be to make the 250k ISK non-transferable. Please read my last post. They won't need the starter ISK if all they have to do to buy militia gear is to grind 2-3 matches in starter suits. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
DootDoot Da Short Buss 241	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:52:00 - [12] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. But then they wouldn't be able to experiment with the MLT items whilist inside the Battle Academy. The practical approach, would be to make the 250k ISK non-transferable. Market credit only... Would be cool. And more then enough of a fix... Would need a separate currency rating probably for that however.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12219	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:52:00 - [13] - Quote Whatever happens I hope they take a firm stance on this, perma ban the offenders and revert as much of the ISK as possible. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
howard sanchez Sanchez Cartage llc 869	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:54:00 - [14] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Atiim wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. But then they wouldn't be able to experiment with the MLT items whilist inside the Battle Academy. The practical approach, would be to make the 250k ISK non-transferable. Please read my last post. They won't need the starter ISK if all they have to do to buy militia gear is to grind 2-3 matches in starter suits. I have to agree with both Maken and Atilim, there ARE good solutions, effective solutions to be had! But the suggestion that Saberwing or other CCP reps have acknowledged this issue in such an offhand, tentative and unofficial manner suggests that this company (already struggling with a dissatisfied and embryonic playerbase) may not be taking this matter seriously enough. It would be encouraging to see a direct response from CCP that such is not the case
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5663	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:55:00 - [15] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Please read my last post. They won't need the starter ISK if all they have to do to buy militia gear is to grind 2-3 matches in starter suits. You make an interesting point, however I don't think that would be a good idea until we improve the NPE. By the time 2-3 matches are played, the average player is already out of the Battle Academy, which puts him right where he would start, but pitted against full squads sporting the best gear available to the playerbase. I believe that the best path would be to bring back the old battle academy, and then implement your idea. But still make the ISK non-transferable. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
DootDoot Da Short Buss 241	Posted - 2014.03.13 16:58:00 - [16] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Atiim wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. But then they wouldn't be able to experiment with the MLT items whilist inside the Battle Academy. The practical approach, would be to make the 250k ISK non-transferable. Please read my last post. They won't need the starter ISK if all they have to do to buy militia gear is to grind 2-3 matches in starter suits. They do need the ISK... For skills... 250k in skills is gone before you even have 1/4 of what you would need... 250k for a new player is really absolutely nothing... And that 250k makes the new player experience that much better... Really they need a comprehensive new player learning Academy.... Where you have a quest to put down a nanohive and have 2 team mates take ammo from it. Put down an Uplink and have 2 spawn from it. Call in a MLT Tank, Dropship, LAV... And reward players with ISK for completing these tasks... They actually get to learn a big chunk of the game before leaving the academy.. Which most don't get to experience on beginner level... its MLT AR 514 in the Battle academy and they get out.... And there are tanks everywhere... dropships shooting them.. LAV's running them over...Magical pads spawning 6 red enemies out of it... Can't find ammo.. Kinda sad and funny at the same time.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2123	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:01:00 - [17] - Quote well as I brought up in other threads the simplest implementation which shouldn't take much time at all to implement would be to prevent new players from trading until they've have had a required number of game, I think it should be 30 but as was mentioned in other threads on the topic you could tie it into the academy system for even less work required, this would also prevent afking so it's kind of a win win.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 5663	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:01:00 - [18] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Whatever happens I hope they take a firm stance on this, perma ban the offenders and revert as much of the ISK as possible. I don't think perma-ban the offenders would be the right course of action. If they perma-ban the people who were abusing this game mechanic to generate ISK from the academy, then they'd also have to perma-ban the people who were abusing game mechanics to generate ISK from DIstrict Locking as well. So that would be what, 80% of the playerbase? I'd say to remove the ISK of course, but don't perma-ban the players. AV > HAV > INF > AV \| Not: HAV > AV GëÑ INF [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
steadyhand amarr TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 2565	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:05:00 - [19] - Quote No isk transfer for 30 days on character creation, it would take that look to grind out anything worth sending to a main anyway. If you where uaing the character as a legit alt "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 2123	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:08:00 - [20] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: No isk transfer for 30 days on character creation, it would take that look to grind out anything worth sending to a main anyway. If you where uaing the character as a legit alt time based won't do, they will just start a trendy line of characters waiting for the 30 days to end, and in 30 days you are back to square one. basing it on games though they would need to play games on each of those characters, spend an hour or more time playing each character, all for 250k isk, it's just not worth it, and theirs no way to really to farm that in that way, it also won't effect new players in any relative way, where a real character might want to start trading isk within those 30 days, not likely but i could see it happening.

Ace Starburst PiZzA DuDeS 71	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:09:00 - [21] - Quote Atiim wrote: Spectral Clone wrote: Im guessing this will go on for about 6 month from the day it was brought up, just like the no risk district locking. An easy fix is to not give new players 250,000 ISK. They get cash when they graduate from the battle academy instead. But then they wouldn't be able to experiment with the MLT items whilist inside the Battle Academy. The practical approach, would be to make the 250k ISK non-transferable. That'd do it. Give the free starter ISK a separate database field than the regular ISK and modify the transfer ISK program to only select the ISK from the regular field. *Edit, although now that I think about it that would start a bootleg market for transferring weapons and gear purchased with free ISK once the player market is up. Secondary functions would have to be implemented that would stop players from purchasing items on the player market with free ISK and selling items purchased with free ISK.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 7350	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:10:00 - [22] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: No isk transfer for 30 days on character creation, it would take that look to grind out anything worth sending to a main anyway. If you where uaing the character as a legit alt What's stop them from cycling their characters to circumvent that? Day 1: Alt 001, Alt 002, Alt 003, etc. transfers starter ISK to Main Character. Day 2: Alt 011, Alt 012, Alt 013, etc. transfers starter ISK to Main Character. . . . . . . Day 30: Alt 120, Alt 121, Alt 122, etc. transfers starters ISK to Main Character. ... Monthly cycle starts over. . . . Day 1: Alt 001, Alt 002, Alt 003, etc. transfers starter ISK to Main Character. Dedicated Scout // Ninja Knifer Everything I know about the Caldari I learned at Nouvelle Rouvenor
howard sanchez Sanchez Cartage llc 869	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:13:00 - [23] - Quote Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Whatever happens I hope they take a firm stance on this, perma ban the offenders and revert as much of the ISK as possible. I don't think perma-ban the offenders would be the right course of action. If they perma-ban the people who were abusing this game mechanic to generate ISK from the academy, then they'd also have to perma-ban the people who were abusing game mechanics to generate ISK from DIstrict Locking as well. So that would be what, 80% of the playerbase? I'd say to remove the ISK of course, but don't perma-ban the players. See, Atilim makes an excellent point. CCP cannot afford to alienate anyone in the community if they can avoid it. They need a legitimately growing customer base. I get that this is Priority One. But I worry that this might lead them to ignore this kind of problem "until DUST grows up a bit". But that is like not treating the cancer because patients don't like chemo. There are other options than a swiftly swung ban-hammer. But they really need to consider and ACT to prevent this from undermining the game in its infancy. Again, prior to even suggesting or agreeing upon a course of action, I believe what must happen next is CCP should honestly and transparently recognize the issue and publicly commit to resolving it. Of course, given thier carteblanche company policy of not responding to customers or communicating in an open and direct manner, there may be little hope of progress. Thank you all for your consideration of this matter
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 120	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:50:00 - [24] - Quote The easiest (and safe) way would be to block ISK transfer below a minimum wallet balance of 250,000 ISK. (I.e a character with 1mil ISK can maximum transfer 750,000, always leaving 250,000 left in the wallet.) That way a newborn can only transfer what they actually earn in battle, and gives an extra safety net against (accidentally) empty you wallet in a transfer.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 1035	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:54:00 - [25] - Quote Would love to hear from CCP about this. It seems like it could cause a great deal of problems once the market hits. "I need not food nor water. Your tears alone sustain me." - Ripley Riley
Grimmiers 0uter.Heaven 444	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:59:00 - [26] - Quote I noticed this too. I suggest making it so isk from player creation and academy matches can't be transferred. If ccp could do this without requiring a third currency that would be ideal. If they improve the npe they could probably make it so you have 0 isk until you play a real match and let you play for entry skillbooks and dropsuits to use. SoundCloud Recruiter Link Pronounced Grim-e-urs
Ace Starburst PiZzA DuDeS 71	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:00:00 - [27] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: The easiest (and safe) way would be to block ISK transfer below a minimum wallet balance of 250,000 ISK. (I.e a character with 1mil ISK can maximum transfer 750,000, always leaving 250,000 left in the wallet.) That way a newborn can only transfer what they actually earn in battle, and gives an extra safety net against (accidentally) empty you wallet in a transfer. That would solve the initial problem, but unless some other function was created they would be able transfer that initial 250K into items and then possibly transfer those to another character to then make a profit off of.
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 12220	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:15:00 - [28] - Quote Atiim wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Whatever happens I hope they take a firm stance on this, perma ban the offenders and revert as much of the ISK as possible. I don't think perma-ban the offenders would be the right course of action. If they perma-ban the people who were abusing this game mechanic to generate ISK from the academy, then they'd also have to perma-ban the people who were abusing game mechanics to generate ISK from DIstrict Locking as well. So that would be what, 80% of the playerbase? I'd say to remove the ISK of course, but don't perma-ban the players. While I think district locking was abused, I think it's pretty far from the level of exploit that biomass isk farms represent. District locking was, in and of itself, intended by CCP. Maybe they didn't intend for it to be so easy, but it was clear to them for a long time that it was happening, and they only just decided it was an issue. Farming 30 alts a day isn't something that could even remotely be misconstrued as intentional. It is a clear cut exploit, and people should be punished for it. Videos / Fiction Closed Beta Vet; Incubus Pilot
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 1817	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:39:00 - [29] - Quote DootDoot wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: howard sanchez wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Oh so thats what thread was about I know someone who currently recycles about 30charas on 10 PSN accounts, i think he spends more time doing that than playing the game Mr Kashuken, Would you agree with the article's author that this kind of behavior, when practiced by many players, could contribute to substantial economic and gameplay imbalance for DUST and, eventually EVE? CCP, anything to add? [CCP]Saberwing said they're looking into it. They can easily track everyone who's done it, so hopefully they reverse the ISK and hand out bans. Fixing the issue should be fairly simple. CCP just needs to take a hard stance on this kind of behavior and start handing out public bans... These players are maliciously trying to cheat the entire game at the expense of a new to DUST player starting with a measly 250k. Taking advantage of terrible game mechanics is on CCP head for blame... Turbo Controllers, Sprint, Melee, Sprint.. Equipment spam... etc... But taking advantage of the character creation process and the new player creation process is straight up with malicious intent. This character recycling can only be done because of the way CCP designed the character creation process so why isn't this also on their head? Conversely, why isn't all of this **** on the head of the person who is perpetrating it? I just think it is funny that it is apparently perfectly alright to use Turbo controllers, Sprint/Melee/Sprint etc, though someone who is doing something to create profit for themselves without directly harming anyone else is "malicious intent". Oh, you, double standards, you'll never cease to amaze me. IMHO, Biomass Isk farms and Molden Heath Farmville are no different than one another. Actually, IMHO, MH Farmville is worse if you ask me since they are actively denying portions of the playerbase from participating in their little circlejerk. Anyone can biomass Isk farm without kissing ass or fellating some tin god, the same cannot be said of PC Farmville. Kill PC and reclaim all wealth it has generated before it damages the game even further Closed Beta Bittervet Bomber
Sleepy Shadow L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 113	Posted - 2014.03.13 18:39:00 - [30] - Quote Wow. I canGÇÖt believe people are actually doing this, en masse. And is the starter ISK really only 250K? I remember it being 500K The best solution probably is that all characters start with 0 ISK. While it does sound harsh, I think itGÇÖs actually better for new players if they cannot invest any money on skill books straightaway. They should really learn about the skills first anyway, with a proper tutorial. You can easily make the starter amount of ISK in a couple of matches and I doubt that would hinder NPE. 250K is so little anyway, you can only get a couple of skill books with that. Well, have fun unravelling this CCP. Hope you catch them all. .ß¦óß¦î+ÿ+ÿß¦ÿß¦Å ß¦ó+ê+æß¦åß¦Åß¦ë - -Æß¦£ß¦îß¦îß+¦ Qß¦+ß¦Çß¦îß¦ë-ô-ù-+ß¦å ß¦áß¦Éß¦Ü+½ß¦â.



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